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bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
August 07 2013 07:44 GMT
#861
Goddam it Byun and Life!
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
August 07 2013 07:46 GMT
#862
On August 07 2013 16:17 edgeOut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:13 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:56 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:51 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:44 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote:
As expected from Kespa.

On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote:
Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)

On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)

On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote:
Kespa hwaiting. :D

On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote:
We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D

On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote:
Kespa players are just too good. :D

On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote:
Kespa maps are the best. :D

On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote:
Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!

like literally your last ten posts

lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?

you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.

lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting

you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots

There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa


It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.


What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.



It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
August 07 2013 07:49 GMT
#863
On August 07 2013 16:46 liberate71 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:17 edgeOut wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:13 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:56 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:51 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:44 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote:
As expected from Kespa.

On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote:
Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)

On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)

On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote:
Kespa hwaiting. :D

On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote:
We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D

On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote:
Kespa players are just too good. :D

On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote:
Kespa maps are the best. :D

On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote:
Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!

like literally your last ten posts

lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?

you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.

lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting

you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots

There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa


It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.


What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.



It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.


I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long

edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
sc2holar
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1637 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-07 07:50:53
August 07 2013 07:49 GMT
#864
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL and won the first international major HoTS tournament...
you no take candle
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
August 07 2013 07:53 GMT
#865
On August 07 2013 16:49 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:46 liberate71 wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:17 edgeOut wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:13 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:56 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:51 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:44 opterown wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
like literally your last ten posts

lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?

you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.

lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting

you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots

There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa


It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.


What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.



It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.


I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long

edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings


Why didn't you internet beat him up as it is expected of the LR batman?
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
August 07 2013 07:54 GMT
#866
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
August 07 2013 07:55 GMT
#867
On August 07 2013 16:53 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:49 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:46 liberate71 wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:17 edgeOut wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:13 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:56 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:51 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote:
[quote]
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?

you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.

lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting

you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots

There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa


It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.


What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.



It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.


I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long

edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings


Why didn't you internet beat him up as it is expected of the LR batman?


LR batman was still in his infancy, unprepared to face the true horrors of LR threads.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
BrassMonkey27
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada616 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-07 08:00:31
August 07 2013 08:00 GMT
#868
Had byun won that game he would have advanced along with Life because of the head-to-head tiebreakers. One game decided the fate of two spots in Code S. 2 ESF vs 2 Kespa.
HoneyBadger.784 Diamond KR "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
August 07 2013 08:00 GMT
#869
On August 07 2013 16:49 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:46 liberate71 wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:17 edgeOut wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:13 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:56 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:51 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:44 opterown wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
like literally your last ten posts

lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?

you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.

lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting

you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots

There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa


It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.


What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.



It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.


I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long

edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings

hey, that broke TL commandment #6 yo. shoulda snapped him for it
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
DigitalDevil
Profile Joined October 2011
219 Posts
August 07 2013 08:01 GMT
#870
On August 07 2013 16:12 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:08 DigitalDevil wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:01 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:59 DigitalDevil wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:53 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote:
Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?


soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.


That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.


If soO wins, he is through

If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.

It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.

soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.


The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.

Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.

soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.

You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.

You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-07 08:06:15
August 07 2013 08:03 GMT
#871
On August 07 2013 17:00 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
Had byun won that game he would have advanced along with Life because of the head-to-head tiebreakers. One game decided the fate of two spots in Code S. 2 ESF vs 2 Kespa.


If ByuN had won and soO wins his game ByuN and soO would have advanced. If ByuN had won and Bang as well, it would have been a 3 way tie between soO herO and Life since
soO > Life
herO > soO
Life > herO

On August 07 2013 17:00 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:49 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:46 liberate71 wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:17 edgeOut wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:13 HolyArrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:57 opterown wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:56 Scarecrow wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:51 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote:
[quote]
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?

you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.

lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting

you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots

There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa


It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.


What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.



It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.


I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long

edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings

hey, that broke TL commandment #6 yo. shoulda snapped him for it


He was just jealous of my witty retorts and clever humor so it was probably out of frustration so I forgive him.

On August 07 2013 17:01 DigitalDevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:12 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:08 DigitalDevil wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:01 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:59 DigitalDevil wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:53 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote:
Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?


soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.


That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.


If soO wins, he is through

If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.

It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.

soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.


The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.

Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.

soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.

You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.

You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.


soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
sc2holar
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1637 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-07 08:06:02
August 07 2013 08:04 GMT
#872
On August 07 2013 16:54 painkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.

i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
you no take candle
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
August 07 2013 08:06 GMT
#873
On August 07 2013 17:04 sc2holar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:54 painkilla wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.

i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.

keyword is some - some kespa players transitioned well, some didn't. same for wol -> hots i guess. most transitioned pretty well, some didn't. and some of it is just natural cycle of falling off or whatever too.
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-07 08:08:59
August 07 2013 08:07 GMT
#874
On August 07 2013 17:04 sc2holar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:54 painkilla wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.

i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.


Kespa didn't go directly from BW to HotS. They've been playing WoL since May of 2012.

Some of the players who did well in WoL aren't doing that well in HotS (RorO, herO, Flying, etc). Some players who did bad in WoL are doing well in HotS (Classic, Bisu, Trap, etc)
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
August 07 2013 08:08 GMT
#875
On August 07 2013 17:04 sc2holar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 16:54 painkilla wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.

i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.


Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).

No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
August 07 2013 08:09 GMT
#876
On August 07 2013 17:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 17:04 sc2holar wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:54 painkilla wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.

i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.


Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).

No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.

Its womenz, i bet cha
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
August 07 2013 08:10 GMT
#877
On August 07 2013 17:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 17:04 sc2holar wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:54 painkilla wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.

i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.


Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).

No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.


Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
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sc2holar
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1637 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-07 08:15:48
August 07 2013 08:14 GMT
#878
Another reason could be that given how fast he rose to prominence, he got overconfident and failed to recognize the need to adapt before it was too late and most players were already ahead in terms of adapting to the expansion. Add the fact that we now have lots of Kespa players who can Rival his mechanical prowess.

His playstyle is still very WoL-esque, he has not changed much since his first GSL victory.
you no take candle
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
August 07 2013 08:14 GMT
#879
On August 07 2013 17:10 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 17:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On August 07 2013 17:04 sc2holar wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:54 painkilla wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote:
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...


HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.

i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.


Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).

No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.


Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.


Korean Stephano gonna retire soon?
DigitalDevil
Profile Joined October 2011
219 Posts
August 07 2013 08:14 GMT
#880
On August 07 2013 17:03 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2013 17:01 DigitalDevil wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:12 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:08 DigitalDevil wrote:
On August 07 2013 16:01 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:59 DigitalDevil wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:53 lichter wrote:
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote:
Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?


soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.


That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.


If soO wins, he is through

If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.

It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.

soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.


The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.

Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.

soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.

You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.

You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.


soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.

If you consider it like that, then you can also for example say that it is unfair for Life and Byun to not have their win against Bang count against soO if soO had lost to Bang. As you said earlier, you cannot apply transitivity to determine the better player. Therefore, you can only count on how many times they won/lost. In this case, they are all 2-2 and so their scores should reset to 0-0 for the tiebreaker.
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