EPT[SPL] CJ Entus vs. STX SouL R5 - Page 16
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TimENT
United States1425 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5212 Posts
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Popkiller
3415 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote: go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit. there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple. | ||
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Pandain
United States12984 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:28 forsooth wrote: You can't have one without the other. If you're not winning tournaments, then you're not actually dominating. Mvp won three GSLs and an MLG from January-August in 2011, Innovation currently has nothing to his name except looking really amazing in one matchup. It's not the same, not even a little. This is true. I think Innovation is currently playing the best SC2 we've seen, only comparable to Life(who I still think could take him on, just played really bad in their series.) I also love his personality. But I don't think he's dominating as he hasn't been utterly destroying in TvT and TvP, although that might be because of the higher competition he faces. I just don't get the feeling I get from MVP back in the day, where literally no matter what I'm like "MVP can do it, he's the best". I don't get the feeling | ||
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RKC
2847 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:28 forsooth wrote: You can't have one without the other. If you're not winning tournaments, then you're not actually dominating. Mvp won three GSLs and an MLG from January-August in 2011, Innovation currently has nothing to his name except looking really amazing in one matchup. It's not the same, not even a little. Well, back then, there wasn't KeSPA pros... And no, this doesn't invalidate the achievements of early BW pros like BoxeR, because there wasn't a RTS comparable to BW, and no pro e-sports scene in Korea even. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:32 BretZ wrote: Have the games been good? I haven't had to see Innovation in his prime as in his games in GSL the two tvz's weren't spectacular. both z's eventually fell over and died to relentless biomine play somewhere between lair and ultra. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:32 TimENT wrote: Wasn't Bogus one of the best upcoming players at the end of BW? He was..inconsistent. He'd show flashes of brilliance then, he'd play like a b-teamer. TY had a higher upside. the true rising player out of STX is supposed to be Mini..but eh's done squat :<.. | ||
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rj rl
648 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:32 IdrA wrote: tournaments usually follow from dominating, but they're not the same. no has or will have a 100% win rate in an rts. you can be clearly the best player and favorite in any match without necessarily winning a tournament. have you actually just said something valid which I agree with? Bogus inspires people to do impossible things. | ||
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kubiks
France1328 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:31 nunez wrote: ya, but innovation is aware of that too. that's why he let that nydus go up in his main. symbol probably creamed his lair when he saw that. Don't compare this "n00b effort nydus" to the "symbol nydus". Symbol elevated nydus usage to never reached before levels, Innovation have to get ready. | ||
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote: there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple. Innovation has done absolutely nothing to be compared to MVP and Flash's runs. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:32 TimENT wrote: Wasn't Bogus one of the best upcoming players at the end of BW? I don't really remember him standing out in the last bw pl season | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19152 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:29 TimENT wrote: My apologies! I just assumed it was typical internet whine, not something legit :D  It's ok. I never internet whine. | ||
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sage_francis
France1823 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:32 TimENT wrote: Wasn't Bogus one of the best upcoming players at the end of BW? he was pretty bad tbh | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15391 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:34 IshinShishi wrote: innovation beats people through mechanical prowess, in mvp's era he had it all, there were games he won before even moving out of his base, still the smartest sc2 player to date. Agreed. Life comes close, but MVP is still what I would describe as the most skilled in the most ways player so far. | ||
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ThomasR
764 Posts
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote: Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario. true, but mvp was dominant in all matchups whereas innovation only has this aura of inviciblity in his best matchup, tvz. remember how unbeatable mvp (in his prime) was in tvt? how dominant he was in tvz? and how he was able to win a gsl against almost only protoss opponents, very strong ones nonetheless, at a time where his wrists were already exploding and protoss had the upper hand in the pvt metagame? mvp has the ability to conjure victories out of nothing. so far, innovation has only shown this skill in tvz alone. | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
On May 19 2013 13:35 kubiks wrote: Don't compare this "n00b effort nydus" to the "symbol nydus". Symbol elevated nydus usage to never reached before levels, Innovation have to get ready. aha, that's true. i shouldn't underestimate the symbol nydus. | ||
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dcsoda
United States583 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
Well shit he did that well. | ||
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