• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:25
CEST 03:25
KST 10:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers19Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1920 users

[WCS EU] Finals Day 1 - Page 296

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 294 295 296 297 298 299 Next
Shinespark
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile843 Posts
September 15 2012 23:29 GMT
#5901
On September 16 2012 08:06 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 08:04 Corrosive wrote:
On September 16 2012 08:02 iSunrise wrote:
On September 16 2012 08:01 Shinobi1982 wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:59 AgentChaos wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:44 Shinobi1982 wrote:
I always regarded MLG as the best foreign tournament/production. But Dreamhack is slowly but surely taking over. And if you say you are as good as your last event then Dreamhack is ahead now imo.

Great show so far, can't wait for the continuation tomorrow.

mlg crowd way better

Last event was pretty pitiful imo, so not that great either.

Yeah, Raleigh was pretty disappointing.

their LoL crowd was pretty shitty too from what i heard though. was it just something about the time of the event or something?


...I don't think anyone knew it was happening then the event just kinda happened.

Most peoples reactions to " hey dude MLG raleigh is this weekend " when I told them was " wait, really? "

too many events were happening at the time. IEM had ended just a few days earlier and spectators were still cooling off from that I guess.


I blame all the garbage content on the calendar. Sometimes you look at it and there's 5 showmatches, a bunch of rebroadcasts, talk shows, online open qualifiers, etc and you can never find anything important. I think big events should be colored red and should be featured on the TL banner with a clock next to it like the TSL4 matches were. Then it wouldn't happen that MLG Arenas start and we didn't even know.
"I, for one, welcome our new Korean overlords."
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 15 2012 23:31 GMT
#5902
On September 16 2012 08:29 Shinespark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 08:06 Dodgin wrote:
On September 16 2012 08:04 Corrosive wrote:
On September 16 2012 08:02 iSunrise wrote:
On September 16 2012 08:01 Shinobi1982 wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:59 AgentChaos wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:44 Shinobi1982 wrote:
I always regarded MLG as the best foreign tournament/production. But Dreamhack is slowly but surely taking over. And if you say you are as good as your last event then Dreamhack is ahead now imo.

Great show so far, can't wait for the continuation tomorrow.

mlg crowd way better

Last event was pretty pitiful imo, so not that great either.

Yeah, Raleigh was pretty disappointing.

their LoL crowd was pretty shitty too from what i heard though. was it just something about the time of the event or something?


...I don't think anyone knew it was happening then the event just kinda happened.

Most peoples reactions to " hey dude MLG raleigh is this weekend " when I told them was " wait, really? "

too many events were happening at the time. IEM had ended just a few days earlier and spectators were still cooling off from that I guess.


I blame all the garbage content on the calendar. Sometimes you look at it and there's 5 showmatches, a bunch of rebroadcasts, talk shows, online open qualifiers, etc and you can never find anything important. I think big events should be colored red and should be featured on the TL banner with a clock next to it like the TSL4 matches were. Then it wouldn't happen that MLG Arenas start and we didn't even know.


That's a good idea, but the space in the TL banner is paid-for advertising only.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
September 15 2012 23:31 GMT
#5903
On September 16 2012 08:22 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 08:03 Grumbels wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:57 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:49 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:43 Fjodorov wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
So, Liquid gets to justify its curse with logic and reason, but EG just has to suck it up?

Obviously Liquid is cursed, don't you see the pattern?


I bet Taeja and Hero feels cursed and all

Taeja and Hero are clearly exceptions, just like JYP and Stephano.

Aren't you listening to all the guys on TL.net? Obviously curses work like this.


HerO and Taeja were already doing well long before they even got signed by TL.

You guys have to understand that there are different types of players.

Stephano like I said is low maintenance. He figures shit out for himself.

Taeja. Low maintenance. Dude's been solid for ages.

HerO. Let's his creativity and micro do the work.

JYP is very similar to HerO and is just starting to breakout.

I can't believe that you're honestly taking this seriously.


Look at the data. -_-

The data showing that EG has a voodoo witch doctor curse and Team Liquid doesn't?

Please, link me to this data.


You keep missing the points that's fine. Be blind on your own I already explained it to you and another guy already explained it to you as well.

You should drop the comparisons especially when the criteria and recruitment was and still is totally different from one another for starters.

Be a punk on your own time because I don't make time for people like you.

You must be trolling, the EG curse is a terrible joke that people should have dropped a year ago. It's almost as stale as Stephano USA USA USA in stream chats.

EG is simply higher profile, so when their players lose it gets picked up on. And they picked up some players that were at the height of their careers and had nowhere to go but down. If you manage to combine this to deduce there´s a voodoo curse then I'm sure something is wrong with you.

The same pattern holds for every team, they have some players whose relative skill declines and some whose relative skill increases. TLO, Nony, Jinro, Zenio, Sheth, Haypro are all kinda irrelevant by now, so there must be a TL curse? Or Sase has done badly for a few months now, Naniwa left, so Quantic curse? Made-up sports statistics are so dumb, it's one thing to make fun of Fionn for his terrible predictions or to notice that HuK underperformed after joining EG, but to obsess about this for years, mentioning it after every EG game etc. is simply annoying.


Oh another edit?

Okay then.

Let me nip this in the bud.

It doesn't hold true for every team.

You guys seem to love the team liquid versus EG rivalry so let's talk more about Team Liquid.

TL was never based on results alone. At the beginning their roster was a bunch of guys they knew from Brood War with the only exception being TLO. It wasn't result based. It was about veterans they knew and liked. For exampe, Before Jos (retje) joined he wasn't even sure if he was going to dive in the deep end with SC2. He was just picking up the game. They've known ret for ages as he's been one of our top foreigners in Brood War for ages. It was an easy pick-up for TL and they had no idea where he would go with it.

Why the heck would you pick-up a player if you cannot rationalize it?

The reason EG gets so much flack is because of their over exposure and flaunting.

That's what happens when you are put in the spotlight time and time again.

I'm sorry about editing my post, I promise I'll be good next time. There's no point in engaging you though, you seem drunk(?) and you make weird posts rambling about various things. "You can rationalize it all you want, but the curse exists." lol, projection much? And how does a 'curse' have anything to do with 'exposure and flaunting'? If you dislike team EG so much that you have to cling to your make-believe insult then go ahead with it, but don't endlessly post about it on forums please.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Wrath 2.1
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany880 Posts
September 15 2012 23:32 GMT
#5904
On September 16 2012 08:14 iSunrise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 08:10 FaRess wrote:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtmokv_interview-du-big-boss-wcs-starcraft-2_videogames

French aAa website interview the dreamhack boss (english interview).

Great interview, thanks a lot!

A lot of insights behind Dreamhack´s future plans, Valencia and eSports in general!


yeah, really nice. thanks for posting!
The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
iSunrise
Profile Joined June 2011
3302 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-15 23:34:17
September 15 2012 23:33 GMT
#5905
Another huge respect to Dreamhack´s production team!
There were quite a lot of downtimes, but you guys had really great content in between the games. I always loved Dreamhack, but today you exceeded my expectations by far. Cannot wait for tomorrow.
fr4nk1sh
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden59 Posts
September 15 2012 23:39 GMT
#5906
I love it !
Knee0fJustice
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2 Posts
September 15 2012 23:39 GMT
#5907
Stephano and that EG shirt.
jinzo123
Profile Joined September 2009
27 Posts
September 15 2012 23:41 GMT
#5908
there is gonna be 3 zerg in the final just like NA finals i bet

Zerg is fucking OP

User was temp banned for this post.
AgentChaos
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom4569 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-15 23:44:27
September 15 2012 23:43 GMT
#5909
Even Korean terrans couldn't survive wcs
IM & EG supporter
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-15 23:53:44
September 15 2012 23:48 GMT
#5910
On September 16 2012 08:31 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 08:22 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 08:03 Grumbels wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:57 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:51 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:50 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:49 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On September 16 2012 07:43 Fjodorov wrote:
[quote]

I bet Taeja and Hero feels cursed and all

Taeja and Hero are clearly exceptions, just like JYP and Stephano.

Aren't you listening to all the guys on TL.net? Obviously curses work like this.


HerO and Taeja were already doing well long before they even got signed by TL.

You guys have to understand that there are different types of players.

Stephano like I said is low maintenance. He figures shit out for himself.

Taeja. Low maintenance. Dude's been solid for ages.

HerO. Let's his creativity and micro do the work.

JYP is very similar to HerO and is just starting to breakout.

I can't believe that you're honestly taking this seriously.


Look at the data. -_-

The data showing that EG has a voodoo witch doctor curse and Team Liquid doesn't?

Please, link me to this data.


You keep missing the points that's fine. Be blind on your own I already explained it to you and another guy already explained it to you as well.

You should drop the comparisons especially when the criteria and recruitment was and still is totally different from one another for starters.

Be a punk on your own time because I don't make time for people like you.

You must be trolling, the EG curse is a terrible joke that people should have dropped a year ago. It's almost as stale as Stephano USA USA USA in stream chats.

EG is simply higher profile, so when their players lose it gets picked up on. And they picked up some players that were at the height of their careers and had nowhere to go but down. If you manage to combine this to deduce there´s a voodoo curse then I'm sure something is wrong with you.

The same pattern holds for every team, they have some players whose relative skill declines and some whose relative skill increases. TLO, Nony, Jinro, Zenio, Sheth, Haypro are all kinda irrelevant by now, so there must be a TL curse? Or Sase has done badly for a few months now, Naniwa left, so Quantic curse? Made-up sports statistics are so dumb, it's one thing to make fun of Fionn for his terrible predictions or to notice that HuK underperformed after joining EG, but to obsess about this for years, mentioning it after every EG game etc. is simply annoying.


Oh another edit?

Okay then.

Let me nip this in the bud.

It doesn't hold true for every team.

You guys seem to love the team liquid versus EG rivalry so let's talk more about Team Liquid.

TL was never based on results alone. At the beginning their roster was a bunch of guys they knew from Brood War with the only exception being TLO. It wasn't result based. It was about veterans they knew and liked. For exampe, Before Jos (retje) joined he wasn't even sure if he was going to dive in the deep end with SC2. He was just picking up the game. They've known ret for ages as he's been one of our top foreigners in Brood War for ages. It was an easy pick-up for TL and they had no idea where he would go with it.

Why the heck would you pick-up a player if you cannot rationalize it?

The reason EG gets so much flack is because of their over exposure and flaunting.

That's what happens when you are put in the spotlight time and time again.

I'm sorry about editing my post, I promise I'll be good next time. There's no point in engaging you though, you seem drunk(?) and you make weird posts rambling about various things. "You can rationalize it all you want, but the curse exists." lol, projection much? And how does a 'curse' have anything to do with 'exposure and flaunting'? If you dislike team EG so much that you have to cling to your make-believe insult then go ahead with it, but don't endlessly post about it on forums please.


Nah, man the thing you have to notice with the first point is that it goes both ways. Not drunk at all.

There's nothing weird with what I said you guys compare teams as if they follow the same philosophies and principles when it comes to business and I'm telling you that isn't the case.

You are projecting yourself. I never said curse. I labelled it differently when I said under-performing.

curse... ? exposure and flaunting? what? That got mixed up awfully fast.



The point I was making is the more you put yourself out there the more people will talk about you.

That's why people don't really talk about the other teams as much. EG churns out a lot more content and likewise people are going to call you out a whole lot more when you do that.

That's natural.

Who said I don't like EG? I think they're doing great things for the scene. One thing is certain, Alex Garfield and I have totally different approaches and it is what it is.

Your view of my argument is make believe in itself.

There is no make believe. You look at that roster on paper and they should be winning a whole lot more than they currently are.

Good news for EG is Stephano isn't the flavor of the month.
Aegeis
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1619 Posts
September 15 2012 23:50 GMT
#5911
Are the Vods skipping around for anyone else?
"Skills to pay the bills" - Artosis, https://twitter.com/AegeisSC2 ,http://www.tumblr.com/blog/socal-esports
Chriscras
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2812 Posts
September 16 2012 00:00 GMT
#5912
Can someone explain the Burger King sign? Do they mean EG.BurgerMan (Nestea's words not mine) aka Incontrol <3
"En taro adun, Executor."
Dundron2000
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1140 Posts
September 16 2012 00:01 GMT
#5913
so i missed todays games.. how was the crowd, did the place look packed enough? i just saw the 1st bo3 and attendance looked kinda patchy..
n.Die_Jaedong
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 16 2012 00:03 GMT
#5914
On September 16 2012 09:01 Dundron2000 wrote:
so i missed todays games.. how was the crowd, did the place look packed enough? i just saw the 1st bo3 and attendance looked kinda patchy..


Stream went over 53k I believe?

Lots of people were at the bar. It was a good crowd.
jinzo123
Profile Joined September 2009
27 Posts
September 16 2012 00:06 GMT
#5915
On September 16 2012 09:03 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 09:01 Dundron2000 wrote:
so i missed todays games.. how was the crowd, did the place look packed enough? i just saw the 1st bo3 and attendance looked kinda patchy..


Stream went over 53k I believe?

Lots of people were at the bar. It was a good crowd.



stream1 went at 62k during the last game of lucifron and stephano
Dundron2000
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1140 Posts
September 16 2012 00:07 GMT
#5916
On September 16 2012 09:06 jinzo123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2012 09:03 StarStruck wrote:
On September 16 2012 09:01 Dundron2000 wrote:
so i missed todays games.. how was the crowd, did the place look packed enough? i just saw the 1st bo3 and attendance looked kinda patchy..


Stream went over 53k I believe?

Lots of people were at the bar. It was a good crowd.



stream1 went at 62k during the last game of lucifron and stephano


thats awesome :D im there tomorrow...
n.Die_Jaedong
BadAim
Profile Joined September 2011
Norway879 Posts
September 16 2012 00:13 GMT
#5917
I love Stephano, but his zvz is under par. If he meets Nerchio he will lose.
My esports soul belongs to: Boxer | White-Ra | Daigo Umehara | Nazgul | IceFrog
Aegeis
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1619 Posts
September 16 2012 00:17 GMT
#5918
On September 16 2012 09:01 Dundron2000 wrote:
so i missed todays games.. how was the crowd, did the place look packed enough? i just saw the 1st bo3 and attendance looked kinda patchy..


During the big match ups the bottom was filled and the upper rows were scattered with a decent amount of people. People often left to for pro signatures/eat. But everything is pointing towards tomorrow's finals being filled with a lot of people.
"Skills to pay the bills" - Artosis, https://twitter.com/AegeisSC2 ,http://www.tumblr.com/blog/socal-esports
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
September 16 2012 00:22 GMT
#5919
On September 16 2012 07:28 RolleMcKnolle wrote:
why so few people in the audience?


Some people who lives in certain areas outside of Stockholm had to go before the games ended to catch the final train home. Overall it was an amazing feeling in the arena when Stephano won.
hundred thousand krouner
5ukkub
Profile Joined September 2009
Poland507 Posts
September 16 2012 00:25 GMT
#5920
Are there any interviews with players?
I just got home and sadly missed all the action. I'll have some time to watch the whole in monday, but meanwhile some interviews would be awsome
Rationalism - Don't take evereything what you hear as a fact! Thinking process makes us human.
Prev 1 294 295 296 297 298 299 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
RO16 TieBreaker - Group A
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 190
RuFF_SC2 35
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 52
Stork 38
League of Legends
Doublelift3973
JimRising 509
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0770
AZ_Axe203
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor266
Other Games
gofns17710
summit1g10798
tarik_tv10479
ViBE149
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1258
BasetradeTV171
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 85
• davetesta41
• musti20045 23
• Airneanach13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 63
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo304
Other Games
• Scarra1111
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8h 35m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
9h 35m
MaxPax vs SHIN
Clem vs Classic
Ladder Legends
13h 35m
Solar vs GgMaChine
Bunny vs Cham
ByuN vs MaxPax
BSL
17h 35m
CranKy Ducklings
22h 35m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Wardi Open
1d 8h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 8h
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Leta vs YSC
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.