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[Day 4] Homestory Cup V - Page 180

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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501TFX
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria345 Posts
July 09 2012 10:54 GMT
#3581
Just saw the "twitter.com/LiquidRet" thing on the end of the page :D

But to my question: Is the replaypack already released? I'm feeling blind for not finding it ...
Never let your dreams fade, run after them, run until you get them !
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 10:56:17
July 09 2012 10:54 GMT
#3582
Very few tournaments are able to afford flying a dozen Koreans over. You didn't see a lot of Koreans at DH not because Koreans were not invited, but because they chose not to go - DH is an open tournament, but doesn't play for flight tickets. I don't know about IEM, but they, same with ESWC, are cash strapped from what I remember. HSC is in the same boat, but also has the Take factor. Take's doing this out of his own money, and invites whoever he wants.
LadyBee
Profile Joined August 2009
Germany97 Posts
July 09 2012 11:32 GMT
#3583
What a ride!

As always after the HomeStory Cup, it takes a while to come back to reality. While I'm sitting here with my feet in a bucket filled with cold water (because damn, they're sore!), I feel the urge to write down a few lines to thank some of the loveliest and most awesome people I've ever had the pleasure to work with.

Because of my work schedule, I was only able to attend day 3 and 4 of HSC this time. However, dropping into the middle of the action somehow made me realise what makes HSC so special: It really is like coming home. Even in situations that can be stressful for the production team, there is never a harsh word. There's not a frown in sight, everybody is having fun, and there's smiles, jokes and hugs all around - not to forget some epic banter and trolling on the partyline. After we went off air last night, the pub was all high-fives, hugs and for some even happy tears.

Thank you Dennis (you madman!) for having this idea and following through with it, and thank you production team, players, casters, viewers both on- and offline for bringing it to life. I'm extremely happy and proud I could be part of it.
Mesha
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
July 09 2012 11:38 GMT
#3584
I heard something about replay pack from HSC - anyone knows anything more about this?
Reality hits you hard bro.
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
July 09 2012 11:50 GMT
#3585
On July 09 2012 19:46 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 19:42 HQuality wrote:
On July 09 2012 19:28 HolyArrow wrote:
With that said, anyone who uses HSC, or any single tournament, for the matter, as "proof" that EU is anywhere close to KR, is being ridiculous

....

Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying.

hmmmmm
:D


I fail to see any contradictions, if that's your intent. Perhaps you could point out what you think is contradictory instead of just quoting certain parts of what I said.


You said HSC couldnt be used as proof that EU is on par with KR. Then you said that HSC is living proof of everything you're saying, that koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, if HSC is a tournament that would imply EU is on par with KR, then you can't use it as an example to say they aren't.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 11:58:38
July 09 2012 11:58 GMT
#3586
On July 09 2012 19:46 HolyArrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 19:42 HQuality wrote:
On July 09 2012 19:28 HolyArrow wrote:
With that said, anyone who uses HSC, or any single tournament, for the matter, as "proof" that EU is anywhere close to KR, is being ridiculous

....

Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying.

hmmmmm
:D


I fail to see any contradictions, if that's your intent. Perhaps you could point out what you think is contradictory instead of just quoting certain parts of what I said.

The quotes sentances are clear contradictions. You don't want to use a single tournament to prove something one way and they continue to state how good the tournament are proving your own opinions in the other direction. Pretty face-palm worthy if you ask me.
Prog
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom1470 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 12:20:21
July 09 2012 12:14 GMT
#3587
They are not contradictions.

x is not a proof for (EU being close to KR).
x is a proof for (KR winning way more against EU).

He does not say:

x is no proof at all.
x is a proof for (KR winning way more against EU).


Nevertheless I do not see how the results can be interpreted as proof for anything. Notice that the "no proof"-sentence has a specific content with (EU being close to KR). It is not about proving something one way, but about proving (EU being close to KR) one way. You might ask why that does not hold for (KR winning way more against EU) as well, but that is a different question.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
July 09 2012 12:32 GMT
#3588
On July 09 2012 03:13 agile_legs wrote:
not sure if this is already posted:

[image loading]

Toldya that MC is the handsomest
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15348 Posts
July 09 2012 12:38 GMT
#3589
On July 09 2012 17:17 Thurken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 13:07 sjschmidt93 wrote:
On July 09 2012 11:16 Ethi wrote:
Not a single TL-article or news for this premier tournament, nothing on the main page. I wonder why.


Seriously though, why? Or do you actually not know the answer? I mean, they had 3 players in the tourney...

Sorry if it's obvious I don't follow the scene to closely anymore.


You generally have to pay to get a TL-article, maybe HSC didn't. Maybe it is for some other reason.

Or maybe you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop making up nonsense.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Jotoco
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1342 Posts
July 09 2012 12:43 GMT
#3590
what was the game were (I think it was Slivko vs Golden?) a player used a changeling to block a TON of units from fleeing.

It was a game casted by Idra, I think the same one were (I think Slivko again) built 2 baneling nests.

It could have being a Nerchio game too, I don't remember.

I remember the casters never saw this brilliant move, and it should compete with the hatchery save by Nerchio on the last game.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
July 09 2012 12:53 GMT
#3591
On July 09 2012 21:14 Prog wrote:
They are not contradictions.

x is not a proof for (EU being close to KR).
x is a proof for (KR winning way more against EU).

He does not say:

x is no proof at all.
x is a proof for (KR winning way more against EU).


Nevertheless I do not see how the results can be interpreted as proof for anything. Notice that the "no proof"-sentence has a specific content with (EU being close to KR). It is not about proving something one way, but about proving (EU being close to KR) one way. You might ask why that does not hold for (KR winning way more against EU) as well, but that is a different question.


Thank you, finally someone who understands why they're not contradictions. I was pulling my hair out seeing how many people weren't getting that -_-;;

When I said "Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying", I shouldn't have used the word "proof". Perhaps "illustrates" would have been more appropriate since it's a weaker word and maybe the semantics of using "proof" in both sentences kind of set people off.

Let's step back from all this "proof" business. My main point is very simple. Take any tournament with both Europeans and Koreans, and I'm pretty sure that overall, Koreans beat Europeans way more than Europeans beat Koreans. With HSC V, Nerchio managed to take first place, but OVERALL, Koreans beat Europeans way more than the opposite. Thus, I'm just saying that you can't take exceptions to the rule and treat those exceptions (the exception this time being Nerchio's run this tournament) as if they're not exceptions.

501TFX
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria345 Posts
July 09 2012 12:57 GMT
#3592
On July 09 2012 21:43 Jotoco wrote:
what was the game were (I think it was Slivko vs Golden?) a player used a changeling to block a TON of units from fleeing.

It was a game casted by Idra, I think the same one were (I think Slivko again) built 2 baneling nests.

It could have being a Nerchio game too, I don't remember.

I remember the casters never saw this brilliant move, and it should compete with the hatchery save by Nerchio on the last game.


Speaking of Nerchio's Hatch save ... how the hell did he do that? Was that a trick (like mineralwalking or something) from Nerchio or a mistake from Yongwha?
Never let your dreams fade, run after them, run until you get them !
TomiLi
Profile Joined August 2011
Poland1 Post
July 09 2012 13:02 GMT
#3593
On July 09 2012 21:57 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 21:43 Jotoco wrote:
what was the game were (I think it was Slivko vs Golden?) a player used a changeling to block a TON of units from fleeing.

It was a game casted by Idra, I think the same one were (I think Slivko again) built 2 baneling nests.

It could have being a Nerchio game too, I don't remember.

I remember the casters never saw this brilliant move, and it should compete with the hatchery save by Nerchio on the last game.


Speaking of Nerchio's Hatch save ... how the hell did he do that? Was that a trick (like mineralwalking or something) from Nerchio or a mistake from Yongwha?


kwasuu
Profile Joined July 2012
Poland13 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 13:13:12
July 09 2012 13:12 GMT
#3594


WTF?
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
July 09 2012 13:18 GMT
#3595
On July 09 2012 22:12 kwasuu wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_5ROKxQVo&feature=plcp


WTF?


I still think its weird drones can apparently force DT's aside.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
BeHave
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany121 Posts
July 09 2012 13:20 GMT
#3596
And this shows, that it wasn't a mistake by Yonghwa, but simply awesome play by Nerchio
Tonttu
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland606 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 13:34:57
July 09 2012 13:23 GMT
#3597
On July 09 2012 22:18 solidbebe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 22:12 kwasuu wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L_5ROKxQVo&feature=plcp


WTF?


I still think its weird drones can apparently force DT's aside.


I don't know but there is like units popping from eggs right the second DT's get pulled outside of Nerchios drone/roach wall.. idk.. does those hatching units that get hatched spawn there blocking the DT's? Or maybe it is just the drones that got mineral walked.. whatever.. great fucking play from Nerchio and he deserved that win.
Naama, the #1 Conductor! | Slayers, Fnatic and Mouz | Naama, MMA and ForGG |
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 14:43:42
July 09 2012 14:39 GMT
#3598
On July 09 2012 19:21 Kazil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 18:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:53 Mastermyth wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.



Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio.


They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either.

There was massive affirmative action going on here.


One of the major draws of HSC is the socializing going on between the players and us being allowed to see it. It's TaKe's tournament, he decides who to invite, and he has already said in the past that he likes to invite players with a bit more charisma and personality because it adds to the way he wants the tournament to be. This is why, regardless of their rising and falling of skill, we'll probably continue to see the likes of Incontrol, Destiny, Dimaga, Bling, etc at HSC. And that's also why there won't likely ever be 10+ Koreans. There's a fairly large language barrier going on there and, apart from a few charismatic players (MC, MKP, JYP), they kinda come across as playing machines. Sure we won't get the highest possible level of skill, but that's not all the tournament is about.




I don't expect to see an IPL4 style lineup but I would have liked 5-7 well established Koreans and 25-27 foreigners rather than 2 established Koreans, some lesser known Koreans (two of whom won their spot by taking it from NA players) and a load of foreigners.

Whether they admit it or not 90% of people's favourite matchup is Korean vs foreigners followed by Korean vs Korean with foreigner vs foreigner being pretty boring for most people.


Take already said that there were too many korean players at this HSC, so dont expect to see more next time. He was quite disappointed about the NA-qualifier.

Korean players are often very shy (look at Mvp oder Hero last time) so they dont fit that well in the enviroment. Mvp's casting was..... not existent.


This is a shame for me. I watched 100% of HSC3/4 (even made sure I wasn't working that weekend) and probably 70-80% of this. But if there's only two Korean players then I'm a lot less bothered about watching. It's borderline pathetic that the EU scene's answer to the Korean challenge is apparently to put as many road blocks behind Korean participation as possible so Europeans might actually win. I noticed IEM cut their Korean quota this year and the new Dreamhack format for Sc2 is almost custom made so Koreans are unlikely to win or even get a place in the final tournament.

Guess I'll be sticking to MLG and IPL's for foreign tournaments.


On July 09 2012 19:29 Ethi wrote:
There is no tournament without affirmative action. MLG provides limited spots, IEM does so, GSL too etc.
And don't forget that not every korean (with decent english) is available at a certain time. I bet MKP didn't attend because of GSTL, DRG and Polt because of their GSL matches.


The MLG arenas have the perfect amount of affirmative action. We get 8 world class Koreans who've all won their place through a qualifier and then a lot of foreigner too for people who wants to see that. The European tournaments go far too far in the other direction.

On July 09 2012 19:28 HolyArrow wrote:
HSC was never meant to be a big, serious tournament. It's a tournament so casual that players party all night and play the next day shit-faced. It's just a fun event where everyone gets to kick back and relax. Sure, there's still a competition that players definitely want to win, but it's simply not the same thing as IEM/MLG/DH/GSL/etc.

With that said, anyone who uses HSC, or any single tournament, for the matter, as "proof" that EU is anywhere close to KR, is being ridiculous. Top Europeans are perfectly capable of taking matches off of top Koreans, but the fact is that in the big picture, Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying. Nerchio took big matches off of MC and Yonghwa, an extremely impressive feat for sure, but in the end, every Korean except for MVP (who played waaaay below his level and is suffering from some serious wrist problems, don't think anyone would disagree with that) and ReaL (he's a product of the EU scene so I don't consider him a "Korean" in the sense that we use the word to describe GSL players/players from a Korean practice environment) placed equal to (only in Sleep's case) or higher than every European other than Nerchio. In other words, EU players can definitely place higher than Koreans in tournaments, but it's definitely not the norm.

When we stop seeing Koreans regularly populating most of the top placements in tournaments with mostly non-Korean players, we'll then start talking about how EU is significantly closing the gap.


When your format is about 22 top foreign players, 5 'personalities', 3 Code B Koreans, 1 injured Code S Korean and a world class Code S Korean then chance are sooner or later someone is eventually going to be able to knock MC out. There's too much RNG in Sc2 for a guy who's a lot better than everyone else there like MC to just turn up and win just like that every time because anyone can lose a best of 3/5 or even 7 in Sc2.

When 16 Europeans can sit down with 16 top Koreans and not get their asses completely handed to them like what happens every MLG Arena or when Europeans start winning Code S and not all losing every single Code B qualifier, then maybe we can talk about things on an equal footing.
Deckkie
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1595 Posts
July 09 2012 14:57 GMT
#3599
On July 09 2012 23:39 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 19:21 Kazil wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:53 Mastermyth wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:
On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.



Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio.


They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either.

There was massive affirmative action going on here.


One of the major draws of HSC is the socializing going on between the players and us being allowed to see it. It's TaKe's tournament, he decides who to invite, and he has already said in the past that he likes to invite players with a bit more charisma and personality because it adds to the way he wants the tournament to be. This is why, regardless of their rising and falling of skill, we'll probably continue to see the likes of Incontrol, Destiny, Dimaga, Bling, etc at HSC. And that's also why there won't likely ever be 10+ Koreans. There's a fairly large language barrier going on there and, apart from a few charismatic players (MC, MKP, JYP), they kinda come across as playing machines. Sure we won't get the highest possible level of skill, but that's not all the tournament is about.




I don't expect to see an IPL4 style lineup but I would have liked 5-7 well established Koreans and 25-27 foreigners rather than 2 established Koreans, some lesser known Koreans (two of whom won their spot by taking it from NA players) and a load of foreigners.

Whether they admit it or not 90% of people's favourite matchup is Korean vs foreigners followed by Korean vs Korean with foreigner vs foreigner being pretty boring for most people.


Take already said that there were too many korean players at this HSC, so dont expect to see more next time. He was quite disappointed about the NA-qualifier.

Korean players are often very shy (look at Mvp oder Hero last time) so they dont fit that well in the enviroment. Mvp's casting was..... not existent.


This is a shame for me. I watched 100% of HSC3/4 (even made sure I wasn't working that weekend) and probably 70-80% of this. But if there's only two Korean players then I'm a lot less bothered about watching. It's borderline pathetic that the EU scene's answer to the Korean challenge is apparently to put as many road blocks behind Korean participation as possible so Europeans might actually win. I noticed IEM cut their Korean quota this year and the new Dreamhack format for Sc2 is almost custom made so Koreans are unlikely to win or even get a place in the final tournament.

Guess I'll be sticking to MLG and IPL's for foreign tournaments.


Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 19:29 Ethi wrote:
There is no tournament without affirmative action. MLG provides limited spots, IEM does so, GSL too etc.
And don't forget that not every korean (with decent english) is available at a certain time. I bet MKP didn't attend because of GSTL, DRG and Polt because of their GSL matches.


The MLG arenas have the perfect amount of affirmative action. We get 8 world class Koreans who've all won their place through a qualifier and then a lot of foreigner too for people who wants to see that. The European tournaments go far too far in the other direction.

Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 19:28 HolyArrow wrote:
HSC was never meant to be a big, serious tournament. It's a tournament so casual that players party all night and play the next day shit-faced. It's just a fun event where everyone gets to kick back and relax. Sure, there's still a competition that players definitely want to win, but it's simply not the same thing as IEM/MLG/DH/GSL/etc.

With that said, anyone who uses HSC, or any single tournament, for the matter, as "proof" that EU is anywhere close to KR, is being ridiculous. Top Europeans are perfectly capable of taking matches off of top Koreans, but the fact is that in the big picture, Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying. Nerchio took big matches off of MC and Yonghwa, an extremely impressive feat for sure, but in the end, every Korean except for MVP (who played waaaay below his level and is suffering from some serious wrist problems, don't think anyone would disagree with that) and ReaL (he's a product of the EU scene so I don't consider him a "Korean" in the sense that we use the word to describe GSL players/players from a Korean practice environment) placed equal to (only in Sleep's case) or higher than every European other than Nerchio. In other words, EU players can definitely place higher than Koreans in tournaments, but it's definitely not the norm.

When we stop seeing Koreans regularly populating most of the top placements in tournaments with mostly non-Korean players, we'll then start talking about how EU is significantly closing the gap.


When your format is about 22 top foreign players, 5 'personalities', 3 Code B Koreans, 1 injured Code S Korean and a world class Code S Korean then chance are sooner or later someone is eventually going to be able to knock MC out. There's too much RNG in Sc2 for a guy who's a lot better than everyone else there like MC to just turn up and win just like that every time because anyone can lose a best of 3/5 or even 7 in Sc2.

When 16 Europeans can sit down with 16 top Koreans and not get their asses completely handed to them like what happens every MLG Arena or when Europeans start winning Code S and not all losing every single Code B qualifier, then maybe we can talk about things on an equal footing.


Dude.

Why dont you just go and watch GSL. We all watch that too. If you dont like watching foreigners, then dont watch them. Please do that. There is no reason to be this netagive.

And for your information. Both Younghwa and nerchio qualified themselfs.
Always look on the bright side of life
ChriseC
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany440 Posts
July 09 2012 14:58 GMT
#3600
will there be any replays?
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