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On July 09 2012 18:53 Mastermyth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. One of the major draws of HSC is the socializing going on between the players and us being allowed to see it. It's TaKe's tournament, he decides who to invite, and he has already said in the past that he likes to invite players with a bit more charisma and personality because it adds to the way he wants the tournament to be. This is why, regardless of their rising and falling of skill, we'll probably continue to see the likes of Incontrol, Destiny, Dimaga, Bling, etc at HSC. And that's also why there won't likely ever be 10+ Koreans. There's a fairly large language barrier going on there and, apart from a few charismatic players (MC, MKP, JYP), they kinda come across as playing machines. Sure we won't get the highest possible level of skill, but that's not all the tournament is about.
Obviously I understand that this tournament is different and player personalities are important. But don't pretend they don't invite plenty western players who are clearly no extroverts.
I don't expect to see an IPL4 style lineup but I would have liked 5-7 well established Koreans and 25-27 foreigners rather than 2 established Koreans, some lesser known Koreans (two of whom won their spot by taking it from NA players) and a load of foreigners.
Whether they admit it or not 90% of people's favourite matchup is Korean vs foreigners followed by Korean vs Korean with foreigner vs foreigner being pretty boring for most people.
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On July 09 2012 18:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:53 Mastermyth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. One of the major draws of HSC is the socializing going on between the players and us being allowed to see it. It's TaKe's tournament, he decides who to invite, and he has already said in the past that he likes to invite players with a bit more charisma and personality because it adds to the way he wants the tournament to be. This is why, regardless of their rising and falling of skill, we'll probably continue to see the likes of Incontrol, Destiny, Dimaga, Bling, etc at HSC. And that's also why there won't likely ever be 10+ Koreans. There's a fairly large language barrier going on there and, apart from a few charismatic players (MC, MKP, JYP), they kinda come across as playing machines. Sure we won't get the highest possible level of skill, but that's not all the tournament is about. Obviously I understand that this tournament is different and player personalities are important. But don't pretend they don't invite plenty western players who are clearly no extroverts. I don't expect to see an IPL4 style lineup but I would have liked 5-7 well established Koreans and 25-27 foreigners rather than 2 established Koreans, some lesser known Koreans (two of whom won their spot by taking it from NA players) and a load of foreigners. Whether they admit it or not 90% of people's favourite matchup is Korean vs foreigners followed by Korean vs Korean with foreigner vs foreigner being pretty boring for most people.
And who will send them there? Take cant afford to fly so many koreans from korea to germany and back, and i dont think their teams will consider this tournament as a major one that would be worth traveling to.
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first eizo at DH and now hscv, good run i would say
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On July 09 2012 19:02 whiteLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:53 Mastermyth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. One of the major draws of HSC is the socializing going on between the players and us being allowed to see it. It's TaKe's tournament, he decides who to invite, and he has already said in the past that he likes to invite players with a bit more charisma and personality because it adds to the way he wants the tournament to be. This is why, regardless of their rising and falling of skill, we'll probably continue to see the likes of Incontrol, Destiny, Dimaga, Bling, etc at HSC. And that's also why there won't likely ever be 10+ Koreans. There's a fairly large language barrier going on there and, apart from a few charismatic players (MC, MKP, JYP), they kinda come across as playing machines. Sure we won't get the highest possible level of skill, but that's not all the tournament is about. Obviously I understand that this tournament is different and player personalities are important. But don't pretend they don't invite plenty western players who are clearly no extroverts. I don't expect to see an IPL4 style lineup but I would have liked 5-7 well established Koreans and 25-27 foreigners rather than 2 established Koreans, some lesser known Koreans (two of whom won their spot by taking it from NA players) and a load of foreigners. Whether they admit it or not 90% of people's favourite matchup is Korean vs foreigners followed by Korean vs Korean with foreigner vs foreigner being pretty boring for most people. And who will send them there? Take cant afford to fly so many koreans from korea to germany and back, and i dont think their teams will consider this tournament as a major one that would be worth traveling to.
What?
Loads of Korean teams/players are either partnered with a foreign team (Team MVP) who might pay, on a foreign team (Alive, Taeja, Hero, Puma, JYP etc..) or sponsored by major big business (Startale, IM, Slayers). Plus TSL seem to have plenty money to send their players all over the place.]
Polt for example would have been a great invite.
MLG's the only tournament paying full stipends on a regular basis so clearly Koreans have their ways of getting to tournaments and Homestory is a pretty major tournament.
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On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here.
I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever.
I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad.
EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG.
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On July 09 2012 18:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:53 Mastermyth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. One of the major draws of HSC is the socializing going on between the players and us being allowed to see it. It's TaKe's tournament, he decides who to invite, and he has already said in the past that he likes to invite players with a bit more charisma and personality because it adds to the way he wants the tournament to be. This is why, regardless of their rising and falling of skill, we'll probably continue to see the likes of Incontrol, Destiny, Dimaga, Bling, etc at HSC. And that's also why there won't likely ever be 10+ Koreans. There's a fairly large language barrier going on there and, apart from a few charismatic players (MC, MKP, JYP), they kinda come across as playing machines. Sure we won't get the highest possible level of skill, but that's not all the tournament is about. I don't expect to see an IPL4 style lineup but I would have liked 5-7 well established Koreans and 25-27 foreigners rather than 2 established Koreans, some lesser known Koreans (two of whom won their spot by taking it from NA players) and a load of foreigners. Whether they admit it or not 90% of people's favourite matchup is Korean vs foreigners followed by Korean vs Korean with foreigner vs foreigner being pretty boring for most people.
Take already said that there were too many korean players at this HSC, so dont expect to see more next time. He was quite disappointed about the NA-qualifier.
Korean players are often very shy (look at Mvp oder Hero last time) so they dont fit that well in the enviroment. Mvp's casting was..... not existent.
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On July 09 2012 19:07 Nebroth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever. I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad. EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG.
The most important thing for invites for HSC is personality. MVP had starpower, but he said fuck all and didn't really contribute to the environment. MKP, DRG and Polt would be good because they are great fun and so on.
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On July 09 2012 19:07 Nebroth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever. I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad. EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG.
I'm sure Take would love to have Polt or DRG at his tournament. If they would wanted to come they would get an invite. But they probably couldn't come.
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HSC was never meant to be a big, serious tournament. It's a tournament so casual that players party all night and play the next day shit-faced. It's just a fun event where everyone gets to kick back and relax. Sure, there's still a competition that players definitely want to win, but it's simply not the same thing as IEM/MLG/DH/GSL/etc.
With that said, anyone who uses HSC, or any single tournament, for the matter, as "proof" that EU is anywhere close to KR, is being ridiculous. Top Europeans are perfectly capable of taking matches off of top Koreans, but the fact is that in the big picture, Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying. Nerchio took big matches off of MC and Yonghwa, an extremely impressive feat for sure, but in the end, every Korean except for MVP (who played waaaay below his level and is suffering from some serious wrist problems, don't think anyone would disagree with that) and ReaL (he's a product of the EU scene so I don't consider him a "Korean" in the sense that we use the word to describe GSL players/players from a Korean practice environment) placed equal to (only in Sleep's case) or higher than every European other than Nerchio. In other words, EU players can definitely place higher than Koreans in tournaments, but it's definitely not the norm.
When we stop seeing Koreans regularly populating most of the top placements in tournaments with mostly non-Korean players, we'll then start talking about how EU is significantly closing the gap.
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There is no tournament without affirmative action. MLG provides limited spots, IEM does so, GSL too etc.
And don't forget that not every korean (with decent english) is available at a certain time. I bet MKP didn't attend because of GSTL, DRG and Polt because of their GSL matches.
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The whole point of HSC in my opinion is having fun in a relaxed enviroment, with progamers commenting, having fun and being relaxed. I dont want to just see games, the view of tarson getting drunk with take, incontrol casting and everyone being polish is suuuuch a nice change from the MLG/IEM style. Its just games there, atleast at HSC you see alot behind the scenes, since thats where they actually play
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On July 09 2012 19:24 Uracil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 19:07 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever. I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad. EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG. I'm sure Take would love to have Polt or DRG at his tournament. If they would wanted to come they would get an invite. But they probably couldn't come.
Actually what I missed the most form HSC IV was all-Korean cast by MKP and MC. Hope we get something like that nest time.
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On July 09 2012 19:33 Nebroth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 19:24 Uracil wrote:On July 09 2012 19:07 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever. I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad. EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG. I'm sure Take would love to have Polt or DRG at his tournament. If they would wanted to come they would get an invite. But they probably couldn't come. Actually what I missed the most form HSC IV was all-Korean cast by MKP and MC. Hope we get something like that nest time.
We had MVP MC cast, wasnt that great,i hope we wont have any of those anymore.
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On July 09 2012 19:34 whiteLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 19:33 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 19:24 Uracil wrote:On July 09 2012 19:07 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever. I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad. EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG. I'm sure Take would love to have Polt or DRG at his tournament. If they would wanted to come they would get an invite. But they probably couldn't come. Actually what I missed the most form HSC IV was all-Korean cast by MKP and MC. Hope we get something like that nest time. We had MVP MC cast, wasnt that great,i hope we wont have any of those anymore.
Yeah, because one subpar cast that includes MVP who isn't really known for having a dynamic, crowd-pleasing personality like MC means that any all-Korean cast will be bad and shouldn't occur anymore. Nice reasoning. Unless I'm misunderstanding you and you just meant you specifically don't want the MVP-MC duo anymore.
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On July 09 2012 19:34 whiteLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 19:33 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 19:24 Uracil wrote:On July 09 2012 19:07 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever. I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad. EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG. I'm sure Take would love to have Polt or DRG at his tournament. If they would wanted to come they would get an invite. But they probably couldn't come. Actually what I missed the most form HSC IV was all-Korean cast by MKP and MC. Hope we get something like that nest time. We had MVP MC cast, wasnt that great,i hope we wont have any of those anymore.
Yeah.. MVP was kinda bad caster  He said like 5 words there.
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On July 09 2012 19:34 whiteLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 19:33 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 19:24 Uracil wrote:On July 09 2012 19:07 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On July 09 2012 18:29 Nebroth wrote:On July 09 2012 18:15 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Looks like the European Scene's New Years Resolution for 2012 of inviting the absolute bare minimum number of Koreans required to make a tournament have any legitimacy at all is paying off (1-2 Code S players, 2-3 Code B players) and they're actually winning again.
Neither YongHwa nor Golden were invited. They qualified, same as Nerchio. They were still invites in the sense that they only allowed one spot from the Korean qualifier. In an ideal world (for HSC) Sleep and Golden wouldn't have won the NA qualifier either. There was massive affirmative action going on here. I think that your point (Euros don't invite many Koreans so that they can win something and pretend they are relevant) might be kinda relevant as far as DH and IEM goes. Its kinda different with HSC though, simply because its as much a tournament as some kind of "e-sport reality show", during which many people want to see they're favourite (not the best) players play/commentate/drink/whatever. I'm not gonna argue that EU> KR cuz it's obviously not true. But bashing HSC for beeing HSC is also kinda bad. EDIT: yeah Polt @ HSC would be great. Same with MKP and DRG. I'm sure Take would love to have Polt or DRG at his tournament. If they would wanted to come they would get an invite. But they probably couldn't come. Actually what I missed the most form HSC IV was all-Korean cast by MKP and MC. Hope we get something like that nest time. We had MVP MC cast, wasnt that great,i hope we wont have any of those anymore.
I would like to hear any combination of MC, MKP, DRG and Polt.
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On July 09 2012 19:28 HolyArrow wrote:
With that said, anyone who uses HSC, or any single tournament, for the matter, as "proof" that EU is anywhere close to KR, is being ridiculous
....
Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying.
hmmmmm
:D
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On July 09 2012 03:16 samurai80 wrote:Lol. Not sure if MC's gf will be ok with this PS : just kidding...
Who is the girl on the left? Never seen her before in the scene..
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On July 09 2012 19:42 HQuality wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 19:28 HolyArrow wrote:
With that said, anyone who uses HSC, or any single tournament, for the matter, as "proof" that EU is anywhere close to KR, is being ridiculous
....
Koreans are still winning way more against Europeans, and HSC V is living proof of everything I'm saying. hmmmmm :D
I fail to see any contradictions, if that's your intent. Perhaps you could point out what you think is contradictory instead of just quoting certain parts of what I said.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/471376_439629576081144_10855503_o.jpg)
