On May 08 2012 04:51 LeGendzErg wrote: I would of watched iron squid but i don't see whats exciting about watching koreans play, every single korean besides mc and violet have no personality whatsoever, their all just little korean machine robots that show no emotion when they win or lose I would rather just watch a sheth or tlo stream instead :/
Just look at the final, and the reaction of MMA holding his Korean flag, so happy. And then the moment with the helmet ? It didn't seem to me that it was a machine.
And Nestea laughing each time the crowd gave him an ovation just when he was about to start speaking ? Wasn't the feeling you describe.
EDIT : wow, ninja'd in the previous post haha.
noooooooooooooooooo it's mine! and I got it back with his signature on it after wise <3
Haha, my bad, i didn't know that. Lucky to get a sign, waited 30 min after but they didn't come... Had my TL mousepad ready for it
sorry about that, they were exhausted and Reis took them back to the hotel
On May 06 2012 01:41 Ocbs wrote: All the french people switched to the english stream, the 2 french casters for this game are terrible.
you must be the only I heard saying this. You're wrong man, you should realize it.
This is not completely false. I think many people switched not because P&T are bad casters (they sureley aren't), but more because of French. I am french, and i really prefer an english casting over a french one, even with the same "level of casting".
But definitely not "all" the french people. P&T have a quite big fanbase in France, so definitely no.
I said it before, butit's quite funny because the French people who don't like P&T have the same reasons of disliking them than the foreign people to like them(they yell too much, not enough analytic shoutcasting).
Well, i enjoy the "spectacle shoutcasting" the most, maybe because i have enough game knowledge to actualy know what's going on.
I would always favor a TB/Apollo cast over a Tastosis one, TB/Apollo is an awsome duo, Apollo balancing the "funny" side of TB by an impressive game knowledge.
I would say DJ Wheat/Mr Bitter come after, and Tastosis in last(i realy can't enjoy them, ive tried a lot of times, i don't deny their game knowledge or anything, but you know it just does not suit me).
Browse all the Thread and you'll see posts saying"WOw French casters are realy into it" or "They know how to work a crowd", all being by foreign people, whereas in some cases you'll see french comments like "I can't stand the non stop yelling" or "They are obviously lacking game knowledge".
I didn't say they were bad (re-read my post), i actually think they're pretty good for the reasons you say. My point was that if french people switched to TB/Apollo during Iron Squid, it was NOT necessarily because they were bad.
And moreover, different people enjoy different kind of casters. You seem not to like much tastosis, yet they have a lot of fans.
It may be preferences for such or such casters, it may be preference for english over french, but not necessarily because they're bad casters, who they aren't, seeing the number of fans they have.
One thing I'm gonna say, from all the live events I've seen or commentated, there is not a single casting team in the entire world that seems to get the crowd as riled as P&T. I've seen 3 P&T commentated events now, ESWC, OGaming and Iron Squid. Each one of them was NUTS. I attended OGaming live, didn't exactly understand much of what was being said but the atmosphere just blew everything else away. Dreamhack isn't as hyped as that was, MLG isn't as hyped. They have a way with the crowd that nobody else has, when you go to a P&T event it's an EVENT, it's a full on entertainment spectacle. The boundless enthusiasm those two put out is impossible to resist and no other casters in the world are showmen like those guys are.
They're definitely doing something very very right. Even if it only appeals to a certain demographic, well that's every caster in a nutshell, we all have our fans and detractors, we all appeal to some people and not others, even Day9 and Tastosis have this issue, no-one is loved by all from a casting perspective.
They're ultra entousiastic and very positive when they cast. They sound like they're actually in the middle of zealots and hydras fighting, with a mic, special envoy mode. As for the events, yes, they give a spin that make a tournament no just a starcraft event, but an event that bound people around something they like. The presence of Kyan, Elky, Moman, and Norman although for a short showmatch, is an exellent exemple of that.
On May 06 2012 01:41 Ocbs wrote: All the french people switched to the english stream, the 2 french casters for this game are terrible.
you must be the only I heard saying this. You're wrong man, you should realize it.
This is not completely false. I think many people switched not because P&T are bad casters (they sureley aren't), but more because of French. I am french, and i really prefer an english casting over a french one, even with the same "level of casting".
But definitely not "all" the french people. P&T have a quite big fanbase in France, so definitely no.
I said it before, butit's quite funny because the French people who don't like P&T have the same reasons of disliking them than the foreign people to like them(they yell too much, not enough analytic shoutcasting).
Well, i enjoy the "spectacle shoutcasting" the most, maybe because i have enough game knowledge to actualy know what's going on.
I would always favor a TB/Apollo cast over a Tastosis one, TB/Apollo is an awsome duo, Apollo balancing the "funny" side of TB by an impressive game knowledge.
I would say DJ Wheat/Mr Bitter come after, and Tastosis in last(i realy can't enjoy them, ive tried a lot of times, i don't deny their game knowledge or anything, but you know it just does not suit me).
Browse all the Thread and you'll see posts saying"WOw French casters are realy into it" or "They know how to work a crowd", all being by foreign people, whereas in some cases you'll see french comments like "I can't stand the non stop yelling" or "They are obviously lacking game knowledge".
I didn't say they were bad (re-read my post), i actually think they're pretty good for the reasons you say. My point was that if french people switched to TB/Apollo during Iron Squid, it was NOT necessarily because they were bad.
And moreover, different people enjoy different kind of casters. You seem not to like much tastosis, yet they have a lot of fans.
It may be preferences for such or such casters, it may be preference for english over french, but not necessarily because they're bad casters, who they aren't, seeing the number of fans they have.
One thing I'm gonna say, from all the live events I've seen or commentated, there is not a single casting team in the entire world that seems to get the crowd as riled as P&T. I've seen 3 P&T commentated events now, ESWC, OGaming and Iron Squid. Each one of them was NUTS. I attended OGaming live, didn't exactly understand much of what was being said but the atmosphere just blew everything else away. Dreamhack isn't as hyped as that was, MLG isn't as hyped. They have a way with the crowd that nobody else has, when you go to a P&T event it's an EVENT, it's a full on entertainment spectacle. The boundless enthusiasm those two put out is impossible to resist and no other casters in the world are showmen like those guys are.
They're definitely doing something very very right. Even if it only appeals to a certain demographic, well that's every caster in a nutshell, we all have our fans and detractors, we all appeal to some people and not others, even Day9 and Tastosis have this issue, no-one is loved by all from a casting perspective.
I entirely agree. Even though they are not my favorite for "standard" casting (Apollo is the best at that - especially when paired with someone like Husky or yourself), and I watched most of the pool matches in English, P&T are the absolute best when it comes to live events. I don't know of anyone who comes close, really.
Three questions regarding Iron Squid 2: 1. Will In Unchronia do player themes again? 2. Who's being invited back? (damn I wish life were) 3. Is there word yet on how many players there will be?
I know those questions are probably unanswerable now though
On May 08 2012 09:16 catplanetcatplanet wrote: Three questions regarding Iron Squid 2: 1. Will In Unchronia do player themes again? 2. Who's being invited back? (damn I wish life were) 3. Is there word yet on how many players there will be?
I know those questions are probably unanswerable now though
I want to make an In Uchronia fanclub nao
im not sure but 99% top 3 from this event will get invited to IS2.
On May 06 2012 01:41 Ocbs wrote: All the french people switched to the english stream, the 2 french casters for this game are terrible.
you must be the only I heard saying this. You're wrong man, you should realize it.
This is not completely false. I think many people switched not because P&T are bad casters (they sureley aren't), but more because of French. I am french, and i really prefer an english casting over a french one, even with the same "level of casting".
But definitely not "all" the french people. P&T have a quite big fanbase in France, so definitely no.
I said it before, butit's quite funny because the French people who don't like P&T have the same reasons of disliking them than the foreign people to like them(they yell too much, not enough analytic shoutcasting).
Well, i enjoy the "spectacle shoutcasting" the most, maybe because i have enough game knowledge to actualy know what's going on.
I would always favor a TB/Apollo cast over a Tastosis one, TB/Apollo is an awsome duo, Apollo balancing the "funny" side of TB by an impressive game knowledge.
I would say DJ Wheat/Mr Bitter come after, and Tastosis in last(i realy can't enjoy them, ive tried a lot of times, i don't deny their game knowledge or anything, but you know it just does not suit me).
Browse all the Thread and you'll see posts saying"WOw French casters are realy into it" or "They know how to work a crowd", all being by foreign people, whereas in some cases you'll see french comments like "I can't stand the non stop yelling" or "They are obviously lacking game knowledge".
I didn't say they were bad (re-read my post), i actually think they're pretty good for the reasons you say. My point was that if french people switched to TB/Apollo during Iron Squid, it was NOT necessarily because they were bad.
And moreover, different people enjoy different kind of casters. You seem not to like much tastosis, yet they have a lot of fans.
It may be preferences for such or such casters, it may be preference for english over french, but not necessarily because they're bad casters, who they aren't, seeing the number of fans they have.
One thing I'm gonna say, from all the live events I've seen or commentated, there is not a single casting team in the entire world that seems to get the crowd as riled as P&T. I've seen 3 P&T commentated events now, ESWC, OGaming and Iron Squid. Each one of them was NUTS. I attended OGaming live, didn't exactly understand much of what was being said but the atmosphere just blew everything else away. Dreamhack isn't as hyped as that was, MLG isn't as hyped. They have a way with the crowd that nobody else has, when you go to a P&T event it's an EVENT, it's a full on entertainment spectacle. The boundless enthusiasm those two put out is impossible to resist and no other casters in the world are showmen like those guys are.
They're definitely doing something very very right. Even if it only appeals to a certain demographic, well that's every caster in a nutshell, we all have our fans and detractors, we all appeal to some people and not others, even Day9 and Tastosis have this issue, no-one is loved by all from a casting perspective.
I don't like P&T as casters but I like them as hosts (they are way better than "Uncle" imo). So, I switched to english stream with TB and Apollo during the games(great job to you). Unfortunatly, there were many lag issues. Anw, though I prefer english over french because I think it's weird in french. I wish the english stream was not inform enough of the planning of the event, and it seems it was a bit weird to cast sometimes.
The crowd was really enthusiastic, that was nice to see. P&T did a good job to entertain all those people. Part of that, in France, Esports is not well appreciated in general manners and we can be grateful that some guys like P&T participate on the developpement of the recognition of Esports in France, and bring to us more events with "big names".
On May 06 2012 08:25 tuho12345 wrote: Symbol macro isn't good at all, he forgot to make units so many games. Like the last game when MMA was constantly making 10 units simultaneously, Symbol had none in his production tab and 2k,1k in banks. He deserved to lose anyway, too bad Nestea fucked up his semi in his best MU, otherwise it'd be a bit better to watch. Or may be Alive vs MMA in the final would have been much better opponent for MMA lol.
you didnt watch the game either your game understanding isnt good.Symbol had infestor tech and was about to making +10 infestors, then MMA's nonstop agression started.He had no time for making these infestors and just make ton of zerglings for defending it.That was amazing timing attack by MMA, nothing wrong with Symbol's macro.
also i can guarantee you, NesTea has %15 chance against MMA with his current ZvT, so Symbol vs MMA final was so much better than this.
Uhhhhhhh This is Nestea's record in ZvT so far in 2012:
Which is way more impressive than Symbol's (granted Symbol really shined this tournament and played better than his record would suggest). I don't know where the fuck you pulled 15%, but even if it was, Symbol's would probably be less than, or maybe about equal to, Nestea's.
uhh Symbol's ZvT record in 2012: 2-1 Polt 3-0 MKP(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) 2-1 sC 2-0 PuMa 1-2 MVP 1-2 Rain 2-0 ThorZaIN
if you really think nestea's record impressive than this, LOL.
You talk like a child in your posts so I am not particularly interested in continuing this conversation, but your argument is very flawed. I listed every recorded TvZ Nestea played this year, the "record" you wrote only listed Symbol's games that made him look good, looking past matches such as his 1-2 loss to Strelok, 0-2 loss to Artist, 0-2 loss to Nobless, and 0-2 loss to Keen, among others. Obviously I think Symbol is still a great player, and he's becoming one of my favorite zergs to watch, but for you to shit on Nestea, proclaiming he would be 4-0'd easily is absolutely absurd.
On May 06 2012 08:25 tuho12345 wrote: Symbol macro isn't good at all, he forgot to make units so many games. Like the last game when MMA was constantly making 10 units simultaneously, Symbol had none in his production tab and 2k,1k in banks. He deserved to lose anyway, too bad Nestea fucked up his semi in his best MU, otherwise it'd be a bit better to watch. Or may be Alive vs MMA in the final would have been much better opponent for MMA lol.
you didnt watch the game either your game understanding isnt good.Symbol had infestor tech and was about to making +10 infestors, then MMA's nonstop agression started.He had no time for making these infestors and just make ton of zerglings for defending it.That was amazing timing attack by MMA, nothing wrong with Symbol's macro.
also i can guarantee you, NesTea has %15 chance against MMA with his current ZvT, so Symbol vs MMA final was so much better than this.
Uhhhhhhh This is Nestea's record in ZvT so far in 2012:
Which is way more impressive than Symbol's (granted Symbol really shined this tournament and played better than his record would suggest). I don't know where the fuck you pulled 15%, but even if it was, Symbol's would probably be less than, or maybe about equal to, Nestea's.
uhh Symbol's ZvT record in 2012: 2-1 Polt 3-0 MKP(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) 2-1 sC 2-0 PuMa 1-2 MVP 1-2 Rain 2-0 ThorZaIN
if you really think nestea's record impressive than this, LOL.
You talk like a child in your posts so I am not particularly interested in continuing this conversation, but your argument is very flawed. I listed every recorded TvZ Nestea played this year, the "record" you wrote only listed Symbol's games that made him look good, looking past matches such as his 1-2 loss to Strelok, 0-2 loss to Artist, 0-2 loss to Nobless, and 0-2 loss to Keen, among others. Obviously I think Symbol is still a great player, and he's becoming one of my favorite zergs to watch, but for you to shit on Nestea, proclaiming he would be 4-0'd easily is absolutely absurd.
i love how you count KR > eu cross server games.
NesTea's ZvT was just too awful at IronSquid, nothing wrong to saying MMA would win 4-0.
Even having watched the event live, this video is amazing. I'm still referring in my head to MMA as "MM-ah", hehe. By the way, he's so lucky - he won titles at Blizzcon and at Iron Squid in front of two of the biggest and most exciting crowds ever, to chant his name.
On May 08 2012 04:51 LeGendzErg wrote: I would of watched iron squid but i don't see whats exciting about watching koreans play, every single korean besides mc and violet have no personality whatsoever, their all just little korean machine robots that show no emotion when they win or lose I would rather just watch a sheth or tlo stream instead :/
Why even watch the games if you just care about the reactions from the players? A soap opera sounds more like your style if you want emotion.
Even having watched the event live, this video is amazing. I'm still referring in my head to MMA as "MM-ah", hehe. By the way, he's so lucky - he won titles at Blizzcon and at Iron Squid in front of two of the biggest and most exciting crowds ever, to chant his name.
Same here, it made me relive the event once again, and gave me some proper nerdchills again aswell. Good stuff! =)
On May 08 2012 04:51 LeGendzErg wrote: I would of watched iron squid but i don't see whats exciting about watching koreans play, every single korean besides mc and violet have no personality whatsoever, their all just little korean machine robots that show no emotion when they win or lose I would rather just watch a sheth or tlo stream instead :/
Honestly, I am fucking tired of seeing people say this. At this point, these sorts of "waah Koreans are robots with no personality" arguments are so blatantly and utterly wrong that I'm starting to think that these posts are just convenient, innocent-looking ways for people to express their racism. And if it's not racism, then it's just willful ignorance, which is also idiotic.
If you even tried to follow the Korean scene at all, you'd see plenty of interesting personalities, not to mention that I can see plenty of emotions - happiness, disappointment, frustration, relief - when I watch Koreans play, win, and lose. But I guess you're just too blinded by your ignorance to see that. People like you are honestly one of the biggest blights of this community. Balance whiners? Fine. Witch hunters? Whatever. Trolls? Meh. But the sort of absolute closed-mindedness and/or ignorance you display toward some of the most highly skilled SC2 players is truly reprehensible.
I realize that this sounds incredibly harsh, but I am simply sick and tired of people having such an indefensible and inexcusable mindset, seeing people (thankfully, not many at this point, but still...) play the "don't want to watch, robotic Koreans are so boring" card at any international tournament. It's ridiculous.
On May 08 2012 04:51 LeGendzErg wrote: I would of watched iron squid but i don't see whats exciting about watching koreans play, every single korean besides mc and violet have no personality whatsoever, their all just little korean machine robots that show no emotion when they win or lose I would rather just watch a sheth or tlo stream instead :/
Honestly, I am fucking tired of seeing people say this. At this point, these sorts of "waah Koreans are robots with no personality" arguments are so blatantly and utterly wrong that I'm starting to think that these posts are just convenient, innocent-looking ways for people to express their racism. And if it's not racism, then it's just willful ignorance, which is also idiotic.
If you even tried to follow the Korean scene at all, you'd see plenty of interesting personalities, not to mention that I can see plenty of emotions - happiness, disappointment, frustration, relief - when I watch Koreans play, win, and lose. But I guess you're just too blinded by your ignorance to see that. People like you are honestly one of the biggest blights of this community. Balance whiners? Fine. Witch hunters? Whatever. Trolls? Meh. But the sort of absolute closed-mindedness and/or ignorance you display toward some of the most highly skilled SC2 players is truly reprehensible.
I realize that this sounds incredibly harsh, but I am simply sick and tired of people having such an indefensible and inexcusable mindset, seeing people (thankfully, not many at this point, but still...) play the "don't want to watch, robotic Koreans are so boring" card at any international tournament. It's ridiculous.
I could not agree more. For some westerners having a personality means being rude or really bad manner. Maybe the real problem is the perception of "personality". Personality is not just having a big mouth and talking louder than everyone. In my opinion, Koreans have great personality, some are arrogant, overconfident, teaser... Here are some examples: Bomber (manner mules man!), MairineKing, Parting.... Of course they seem shy, but you can have a great personality and be shy. I prefer those guys a 100 times compare to Idra or Naniwa...
Once again cultural misperceptions is to blame in this debate. Some people are too narrow minded to fully understand and see the beauty of globalized e-sports.
On May 08 2012 04:51 LeGendzErg wrote: I would of watched iron squid but i don't see whats exciting about watching koreans play, every single korean besides mc and violet have no personality whatsoever, their all just little korean machine robots that show no emotion when they win or lose I would rather just watch a sheth or tlo stream instead :/
Honestly, I am fucking tired of seeing people say this. At this point, these sorts of "waah Koreans are robots with no personality" arguments are so blatantly and utterly wrong that I'm starting to think that these posts are just convenient, innocent-looking ways for people to express their racism. And if it's not racism, then it's just willful ignorance, which is also idiotic.
If you even tried to follow the Korean scene at all, you'd see plenty of interesting personalities, not to mention that I can see plenty of emotions - happiness, disappointment, frustration, relief - when I watch Koreans play, win, and lose. But I guess you're just too blinded by your ignorance to see that. People like you are honestly one of the biggest blights of this community. Balance whiners? Fine. Witch hunters? Whatever. Trolls? Meh. But the sort of absolute closed-mindedness and/or ignorance you display toward some of the most highly skilled SC2 players is truly reprehensible.
I realize that this sounds incredibly harsh, but I am simply sick and tired of people having such an indefensible and inexcusable mindset, seeing people (thankfully, not many at this point, but still...) play the "don't want to watch, robotic Koreans are so boring" card at any international tournament. It's ridiculous.
I could not agree more. For some westerners having a personality means being rude or really bad manner. Maybe the real problem is the perception of "personality". Personality is not just having a big mouth and talking louder than everyone. In my opinion, Koreans have great personality, some are arrogant, overconfident, teaser... Here are some examples: Bomber (manner mules man!), MairineKing, Parting.... Of course they seem shy, but you can have a great personality and be shy. I prefer those guys a 100 times compare to Idra or Naniwa...
Once again cultural misperceptions is to blame in this debate. Some people are too narrow minded to fully understand and see the beauty of globalized e-sports.
The odd thing is that Legendzerg said that he'd rather watch Sheth or TLO stream instead, and as far as I know, both of them are very mannered, so it's not even that. I just have no idea. But your points do indeed apply to many people with the "don't like robotic Koreans" mindset.
On May 08 2012 04:51 LeGendzErg wrote: I would of watched iron squid but i don't see whats exciting about watching koreans play, every single korean besides mc and violet have no personality whatsoever, their all just little korean machine robots that show no emotion when they win or lose I would rather just watch a sheth or tlo stream instead :/
Honestly, I am fucking tired of seeing people say this. At this point, these sorts of "waah Koreans are robots with no personality" arguments are so blatantly and utterly wrong that I'm starting to think that these posts are just convenient, innocent-looking ways for people to express their racism. And if it's not racism, then it's just willful ignorance, which is also idiotic.
If you even tried to follow the Korean scene at all, you'd see plenty of interesting personalities, not to mention that I can see plenty of emotions - happiness, disappointment, frustration, relief - when I watch Koreans play, win, and lose. But I guess you're just too blinded by your ignorance to see that. People like you are honestly one of the biggest blights of this community. Balance whiners? Fine. Witch hunters? Whatever. Trolls? Meh. But the sort of absolute closed-mindedness and/or ignorance you display toward some of the most highly skilled SC2 players is truly reprehensible.
I realize that this sounds incredibly harsh, but I am simply sick and tired of people having such an indefensible and inexcusable mindset, seeing people (thankfully, not many at this point, but still...) play the "don't want to watch, robotic Koreans are so boring" card at any international tournament. It's ridiculous.
I could not agree more. For some westerners having a personality means being rude or really bad manner. Maybe the real problem is the perception of "personality". Personality is not just having a big mouth and talking louder than everyone. In my opinion, Koreans have great personality, some are arrogant, overconfident, teaser... Here are some examples: Bomber (manner mules man!), MairineKing, Parting.... Of course they seem shy, but you can have a great personality and be shy. I prefer those guys a 100 times compare to Idra or Naniwa...
Once again cultural misperceptions is to blame in this debate. Some people are too narrow minded to fully understand and see the beauty of globalized e-sports.
This should be a thread. People talk about Koreans like they are a different species. They are people as well, and put in the effort to become as good as they are. They absolutely deserve every win they get.