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On April 17 2012 21:59 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 21:54 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:51 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:50 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:49 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:47 mycro wrote:
So many saying Mvp didnt play aLive, they played in GSL Nov. So many people saying MVP didn't play aLive in last code S (which is NOT GSL Nov.) previous != last. last = last finished code S but w/e :D Okej, I'll help you: On April 17 2012 21:44 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
gosh, are danish ppl generally dumb?
just gonna repost facts
aLive
> MVP (previous Code S)
> MMA (previous Code S)
> PuMa (IPL qualifier)
> DRG (IPL qualifier)
> MKP (IPL)
> Polt (IPL)
> NesTea (IPL)
> Leenock (Iron Squid)
> MC (Iron Squid)
over 65% against Code S players in 2012 - highest since MVP
There is absolutely no doubt, aLive is easily the best player in the world right now.
Bye Also, me and Hider were discussing statistics, which we were both apparently pretty decent/good at, where as you are just saying random stuff, reposting facts (however aLive didn't play MVP in previous code S) and saying stupid shit like "there is absolutely no doubt" Are German people generally this stupid? "but w/e :D" Okay I get it, no you are right that: last =! previous But last finished code S = previous code S. no?
"Previous code s" could apply to all Code S tournaments that's been played so far.
"Latest Code S" is what you want I believe.
Still doesn't change the fact that aLive did not > mvp in Code S
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On April 17 2012 22:02 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 21:59 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:54 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:51 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:50 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:49 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:47 mycro wrote:
So many saying Mvp didnt play aLive, they played in GSL Nov. So many people saying MVP didn't play aLive in last code S (which is NOT GSL Nov.) previous != last. last = last finished code S but w/e :D Okej, I'll help you: On April 17 2012 21:44 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
gosh, are danish ppl generally dumb?
just gonna repost facts
aLive
> MVP (previous Code S)
> MMA (previous Code S)
> PuMa (IPL qualifier)
> DRG (IPL qualifier)
> MKP (IPL)
> Polt (IPL)
> NesTea (IPL)
> Leenock (Iron Squid)
> MC (Iron Squid)
over 65% against Code S players in 2012 - highest since MVP
There is absolutely no doubt, aLive is easily the best player in the world right now.
Bye Also, me and Hider were discussing statistics, which we were both apparently pretty decent/good at, where as you are just saying random stuff, reposting facts (however aLive didn't play MVP in previous code S) and saying stupid shit like "there is absolutely no doubt" Are German people generally this stupid? "but w/e :D" Okay I get it, no you are right that: last =! previous But last finished code S = previous code S. no? "Previous code s" could apply to all Code S tournaments that's been played so far. "Latest Code S" is what you want I believe. Still doesn't change the fact that aLive did not > mvp in Code S
Of course (I always used previous as the one right before)
My bad
If you say "the previous", does that make it so that "previous = last" ???
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On April 17 2012 21:59 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 21:54 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:51 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:50 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:49 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:47 mycro wrote:
So many saying Mvp didnt play aLive, they played in GSL Nov. So many people saying MVP didn't play aLive in last code S (which is NOT GSL Nov.) previous != last. last = last finished code S but w/e :D Okej, I'll help you: On April 17 2012 21:44 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
gosh, are danish ppl generally dumb?
just gonna repost facts
aLive
> MVP (previous Code S)
> MMA (previous Code S)
> PuMa (IPL qualifier)
> DRG (IPL qualifier)
> MKP (IPL)
> Polt (IPL)
> NesTea (IPL)
> Leenock (Iron Squid)
> MC (Iron Squid)
over 65% against Code S players in 2012 - highest since MVP
There is absolutely no doubt, aLive is easily the best player in the world right now.
Bye Also, me and Hider were discussing statistics, which we were both apparently pretty decent/good at, where as you are just saying random stuff, reposting facts (however aLive didn't play MVP in previous code S) and saying stupid shit like "there is absolutely no doubt" Are German people generally this stupid? "but w/e :D" Okay I get it, no you are right that: last =! previous But last finished code S = previous code S. no? And yes I used both words, but my intention was the same.
Previous means prior, saying "Mvp is a previous GSL champion" is okej and doesn't mean he was the most recent champion. While saying "GSL Nov is the last GSL tournament" is a wrong statement. You can say "previous" for Season 1 but it's more ambiguous, I might as well interpret it as an earlier tournament.
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On April 17 2012 21:47 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 21:39 Hider wrote:On April 17 2012 21:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On April 17 2012 21:00 Hider wrote:On April 17 2012 20:56 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 20:50 Hider wrote:On April 17 2012 20:44 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 20:40 Hider wrote:On April 17 2012 20:34 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 20:32 Hider wrote:
[quote]
Just stop trying. Some ignorant people just cant make a distinction between being really good and having good results.
Alive isn't really good like MKP. He is good, of similar caliber like other good korean terrans such as Ryung, Supernova etc. But he isn't the kind of player you expect to see dominate code S. He is the kidn of player who constantly have to work to just stay in code S. People like you kind of piss me off, what would you rather: Be "good" in your definition, or have good results? I am not saying aLive is the best T in the world, but he has good results. I do know what the difference is, like yellow in BW, he was fucking good, but never won a gold. But which is actually better? Why do you think the discussion is about what I rather want? This discussion is about being good, not about results, as results vary a lot in the short term. LEsser skilled players can often times get better results in a few tournaments even if they are 10% worse than other players. However long termish we can expect the best players to get best results. But of course if you dont play the game at a decent level your self, you can't really determine who is good/really good/mediocore, and your best bet is too look at results. Wow, what a delicate way to say that you know better than me. Even if this discussion is about being good, instead of producing results, who do you rate as the best? He who wins the most shit, or he who has more of this "skill" that everyone talks about. I can appreciate some players who are extremely good but never actually win the big finals (yellow), but in the end, those who win are the ones who win. Not those who are good. Because thats a totally different situation. Do I want to be someone who got lucky and won a million through gambling, or a hardworking man who "only" has won half a million? Its a compltetely pointless discussion, but I know that in the future we can expect the hardworking man to do better than the lucky gambler. And this is probably what you miss. There is no kind of (unexplainable) secret that has yielded Alive better results (and Ryung worse results). Its mostly due to variance (+ not having pariticapted in the right tournaments). ANd if you think there is some kind of "secret" that can explain why Ryung is doing worse than Alive, then it can be attributed to decision making/strategy/mechanicas/mentaliity that is a part of being good. So what is you point? aLive just got lucky and beat MMA, MVP, DRG, NESTEA, MC, MKP etc? Or was he good? Which is why he has gotten results? Also what you want is not the point, I believe just as much as the next guy that hard work > luck. But in a game based a lot on luck, there is bound to be some variations, however IM_MVP was pretty good for a long time, was he just lucky a long time in a row? Walking away from this discussion now. Please take a statistic class. You dont understand how variance works. in this Stats Class you are recommending make sure it covers this LAW ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/7/7/f/77fd8f4aee1576f5a4512f6b0d63a71f.png) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbersi remember 2 years ago on "another RTS Fan site" people insisting HuK got "lucky" to win 3 $100 CraftCups in a row. That many of his wins were "pure luck" based upon "gamble builds". Look at the guys he beat in the final few rounds of those $100 events. With two years of historical data to now examine ... would you say HuK was lucky or would you say he is the better player? Same logic applies here. As the victories pile up it'll become harder and harder for this "it was pure luck" talk to withstand any common sense scrutiny. The thing is, even though you may understand the "law of large numbers" in a nutshell, then its easy for me to see that on the way you try to simplifiy things (black/white), you dont understand statistics (especially since there is essiantelly no doubt that Huk had positive variance on his side to win 3 craftcups - though he probably was the best player at that time). Who cares if some guy has the same levl of understanding of statistics as you. This isn't a math forum, this is a starcraft2 forum, and it's pretty obvious you are simply arguing about nothing for the sake of it. I do know however that you are trying to apply your statistics skills to a place where they don't fit. Who cares if aLive is performing "above his mean" results-wise. That's what happen when you improve... Should we fault players for improving? Should we ignore players who didn't start out being the best? How dare he not win tournaments for a year and then suddenly start to melt face?! It ruins my system!!
Did you read his question to me? He was trying to use statistics to proove that HUK wasn't lucky. But there was just so many obivious fallacies in his logic, that it was just easier for me to answer "you dont understand statistics", than actually try to teach him his exact fallacies.
This definitely has not just been a discussion about statistiscis for the sake of discussion (if you actually read all the posts instead you will that my main point has been that Alive was just a overrated player, and people has tried to "disproove" me with using results. But through the law of statistics I have tried to argue that this isn't any kind of proof.
Actually I am the one who wants to look at specific games and analyze how a player plays, rather than looking at simple wins/loses because that often leads to misuses of statistics.
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On April 17 2012 22:05 mycro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 21:59 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:54 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:51 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:50 mycro wrote:On April 17 2012 21:49 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:47 mycro wrote:
So many saying Mvp didnt play aLive, they played in GSL Nov. So many people saying MVP didn't play aLive in last code S (which is NOT GSL Nov.) previous != last. last = last finished code S but w/e :D Okej, I'll help you: On April 17 2012 21:44 Grovbolle wrote:On April 17 2012 21:33 SilentBonjwa wrote:
gosh, are danish ppl generally dumb?
just gonna repost facts
aLive
> MVP (previous Code S)
> MMA (previous Code S)
> PuMa (IPL qualifier)
> DRG (IPL qualifier)
> MKP (IPL)
> Polt (IPL)
> NesTea (IPL)
> Leenock (Iron Squid)
> MC (Iron Squid)
over 65% against Code S players in 2012 - highest since MVP
There is absolutely no doubt, aLive is easily the best player in the world right now.
Bye Also, me and Hider were discussing statistics, which we were both apparently pretty decent/good at, where as you are just saying random stuff, reposting facts (however aLive didn't play MVP in previous code S) and saying stupid shit like "there is absolutely no doubt" Are German people generally this stupid? "but w/e :D" Okay I get it, no you are right that: last =! previous But last finished code S = previous code S. no? And yes I used both words, but my intention was the same. Previous means prior, saying "Mvp is a previous GSL champion" is okej and doesn't mean he was the most recent champion. While saying "GSL Nov is the last GSL tournament" is a wrong statement. You can say "previous" for Season 1 but it's more ambiguous, I might as well interpret it as an earlier tournament.
Both you and Vorenius made that quite clear now. Thanks 
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On April 17 2012 22:05 Hider wrote:
it was just easier for me to answer "you dont understand statistics", than actually try to teach him his exact fallacies.
i'm glad you've acknowledged how imprecise your thinking is.
thanks.
alive has now been on 3 teams foU, Fnatic, and TSL that are all amongst the top 15 in terms of winning money..
i guess all the guys running those 3 teams are morons and Alive is a genius of deceit and he is really a smoke and mirrors expert.... in both real life.. by bamboozling 3 teams... and within the game of SC2 itself.
while we are learning new words liek "Variance" ... let's add some latin to this convo..
Reductio Ad Absurdum.
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On April 17 2012 22:05 Hider wrote:
Actually I am the one who wants to look at specific games and analyze how a player plays, rather than looking at simple wins/loses because that often leads to misuses of statistics.
Let's just agree that he is the second best terran on a non-korean team then
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On April 17 2012 22:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:05 Hider wrote:
it was just easier for me to answer "you dont understand statistics", than actually try to teach him his exact fallacies.
i'm glad you've acknowledged how imprecise your thinking is. thanks. alive has now been on 3 teams foU, Fnatic, and TSL that are all amongst the top 15 in terms of winning money.. i guess all the guys running those 3 teams are morons and Alive is a genius of deceit and he is really a smoke and mirrors expert.... in both real life.. by bamboozling 3 teams... and within the game of SC2 itself. while we are learning new words liek "Variance" ... let's add some latin to this convo.. Reductio Ad Absurdum.
Cant tell if trolling.
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The matches today was as easy to predict as nasl last year
Happy drg dident fall down… And Puma!
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Wasn't Huk given a welfare spot into Up and Downs this season after he fell to Code B? Now he's right back there. Hopefully he actually has to go through the Code A qualifiers this time-- it will be a first for his career.
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The entire cast for Huk vs Hack was laughable. They are touting Huk as "one of the best players in the world" while Hack, a B-level Terran, is wiping the floor with him.
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On April 17 2012 22:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:05 Hider wrote:
it was just easier for me to answer "you dont understand statistics", than actually try to teach him his exact fallacies.
i'm glad you've acknowledged how imprecise your thinking is. thanks. alive has now been on 3 teams foU, Fnatic, and TSL that are all amongst the top 15 in terms of winning money.. i guess all the guys running those 3 teams are morons and Alive is a genius of deceit and he is really a smoke and mirrors expert.... in both real life.. by bamboozling 3 teams... and within the game of SC2 itself. while we are learning new words liek "Variance" ... let's add some latin to this convo.. Reductio Ad Absurdum.
Ho… what..? Is he bashing aLive or the opposite? Im confussed now..
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On April 17 2012 22:29 xrapture wrote:
Wasn't Huk given a welfare spot into Up and Downs this season after he fell to Code B? Now he's right back there. Hopefully he actually has to go through the Code A qualifiers this time-- it will be a first for his career.
I dunno if it can be fairly called a welfare spot... didn't he get it for his 3rd place finish at MLG (where #2 and #1 were already Code S)?
I might be wrong here, my memory is terrible
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On April 17 2012 22:31 mikedebo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:29 xrapture wrote:
Wasn't Huk given a welfare spot into Up and Downs this season after he fell to Code B? Now he's right back there. Hopefully he actually has to go through the Code A qualifiers this time-- it will be a first for his career. I dunno if it can be fairly called a welfare spot... didn't he get it for his 3rd place finish at MLG (where #2 and #1 were already Code S)? I might be wrong here, my memory is terrible
It wasn't for the MLG spot, but GOM considers foreign tournament results when deciding on seeds so you could argue indirectly it was.
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I feel so bad for sC .. i mean his health issues than he drops out of code S against Genius and DRG, lost his code A match,..
than lost in the Up &Downs in a 3 way tie with Alicia and STC, while he could not realy breath an stff and now drops out of code a against a upcoming zerg in a close series..
poor guy 
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On April 17 2012 22:26 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 22:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On April 17 2012 22:05 Hider wrote:
it was just easier for me to answer "you dont understand statistics", than actually try to teach him his exact fallacies.
i'm glad you've acknowledged how imprecise your thinking is. thanks. alive has now been on 3 teams foU, Fnatic, and TSL that are all amongst the top 15 in terms of winning money.. i guess all the guys running those 3 teams are morons and Alive is a genius of deceit and he is really a smoke and mirrors expert.... in both real life.. by bamboozling 3 teams... and within the game of SC2 itself. while we are learning new words liek "Variance" ... let's add some latin to this convo.. Reductio Ad Absurdum. Cant tell if trolling.
Reductio Ad Absurdum: reduce an argument to the point that continued arguing becomes absurd.
applying it to this case: claiming Alive is able to fool three of the top fifteen money making teams AND win IPL4 on luck is absurd
get the idea?
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Heard that hack is practicing insanely hard recently, even having an 80% winrate against squirtle. Glad to see him making it to round 2, well deserved.
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Huk is going down
End of story.
Hyping him is joke. Ofc for ME. No off..
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got everything right except for huk. i guess huk dont really care about sc2 anymore and is spending alot mroe time on lol
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Huk also lost to Strelok in NASL, so this loss vs a Korean who practices in StarTale house is not a big surprise.
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EPT
