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On January 18 2012 13:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 12:55 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:51 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:48 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:36 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:32 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
[quote]
Who is your top 3 then? MVP, MMA, Jjakji. Pretty easy top 4 imo Jjakji is overrated. His TvT is too weak to be considered a top 3 terran. His other matchups make up for it, just like MMA and MVP's TvPs are comparatively weak to jjakji's. MvP/MMA's TvP > Jjakji's TvT So? No one said jjakji was above MVP/MMA. I said he was 3rd best, and he won a GSL by beating, imo, the best PvT and at the time, best ZvT player. FACT IS MVP and MMA lost to the people jjakji beat in a bo5/bo7. You aren't the 3rd best player in the world simply because you won 2 series. Jjakji admitted that he would've lost the Oz series if Oz played more conservatively. MMA barely lost to Oz and he's beaten Leenock in every game since Providence. And MvP barely lost to Leenock. And is that why Jjakji ended up beating Oz 2-0 again in KSL? Name one player who deserves 3rd best over jjakji. The only player is Supernova, but there's something very important in being able to make it deep in tournaments and coming out with a win in high pressure situations. Is that why Younghwa beat him 2-1 in KSL? Damn, Finale has won a KSL but that doesn't make him a top Protoss in the world. Oz having the best PvT in the world is a questionable assumption anyway. Supernova, Polt, Keen, Ganzi. Lol so all of a sudden, GSL results don't matter because of "almosts", and the only thing that matters are head to head tvts. Ok. I was trying to prove a point that Jjakji deserved his win over Oz for sure, but I guess no win matters unless it's a sweep in GSL. You listed a player who couldn't manage to get into code S this season and who did VERY mediocre in the Blizzard Cup. He made it out of group stages by simply beating out a really bad nestea and a naniwa. Keen, who is very good yes, but is still up and coming and really there is no way to gauge his true skill yet because his most notable achievements were a team league all kill in bo1s against slayers and stomped out huk with some new meta. Seriously, Keen's tourn around from mediocre to good is nothing compared to jjakji's. Then Ganzi, who probably has the worst TvP I've ever seen, and Supernova, my #4. Let me remind everyone that jjakji did in fact go all the way and won the VERY LAST GSL.
Well, there was this one time I saw this bronze guy play TvP...
Joking aside, I do want to know why everybody thinks Supernova should be in the top 5. He is certainly very good, but what results does he have besides winning Code A a few months back? He did qualify for WCG, but was knocked out earlier than expected by a non-Korean. His Code S runs have not been spectacular either.
I do agree with you that Jjakji is the 3rd Terran at this point, since MMA and MVP are the only terrans with GSL titles...ok enough of the "ignore Polt" game, but Polt is not playing that well anymore and is languishing in Code A.
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France29748 Posts
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On January 18 2012 13:12 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 13:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:55 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:51 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:48 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:36 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:
[quote]
MVP, MMA, Jjakji. Pretty easy top 4 imo Jjakji is overrated. His TvT is too weak to be considered a top 3 terran. His other matchups make up for it, just like MMA and MVP's TvPs are comparatively weak to jjakji's. MvP/MMA's TvP > Jjakji's TvT So? No one said jjakji was above MVP/MMA. I said he was 3rd best, and he won a GSL by beating, imo, the best PvT and at the time, best ZvT player. FACT IS MVP and MMA lost to the people jjakji beat in a bo5/bo7. You aren't the 3rd best player in the world simply because you won 2 series. Jjakji admitted that he would've lost the Oz series if Oz played more conservatively. MMA barely lost to Oz and he's beaten Leenock in every game since Providence. And MvP barely lost to Leenock. And is that why Jjakji ended up beating Oz 2-0 again in KSL? Name one player who deserves 3rd best over jjakji. The only player is Supernova, but there's something very important in being able to make it deep in tournaments and coming out with a win in high pressure situations. Is that why Younghwa beat him 2-1 in KSL? Damn, Finale has won a KSL but that doesn't make him a top Protoss in the world. Oz having the best PvT in the world is a questionable assumption anyway. Supernova, Polt, Keen, Ganzi. Lol so all of a sudden, GSL results don't matter because of "almosts", and the only thing that matters are head to head tvts. Ok. I was trying to prove a point that Jjakji deserved his win over Oz for sure, but I guess no win matters unless it's a sweep in GSL. You listed a player who couldn't manage to get into code S this season and who did VERY mediocre in the Blizzard Cup. He made it out of group stages by simply beating out a really bad nestea and a naniwa. Keen, who is very good yes, but is still up and coming and really there is no way to gauge his true skill yet because his most notable achievements were a team league all kill in bo1s against slayers and stomped out huk with some new meta. Seriously, Keen's tourn around from mediocre to good is nothing compared to jjakji's. Then Ganzi, who probably has the worst TvP I've ever seen, and Supernova, my #4. Let me remind everyone that jjakji did in fact go all the way and won the VERY LAST GSL. Well, there was this one time I saw this bronze guy play TvP... Joking aside, I do want to know why everybody thinks Supernova should be in the top 5. He is certainly very good, but what results does he have besides winning Code A a few months back? He did qualify for WCG, but was knocked out earlier than expected by a non-Korean. His Code S runs have not been spectacular either. I do agree with you that Jjakji is the 3rd Terran at this point, since MMA and MVP are the only terrans with GSL titles...ok enough of the "ignore Polt" game, but Polt is not playing that well anymore and is languishing in Code A.
Qualifying for WCG in Korea/winning WCG Korea is much more difficult than WCG itself imo. The only reason he didn't take 2nd was because he had to play MVP in the ro4 instead of the finals. Then before this he beat out DRG twice in GSL and in AOL, then lost against MVP again later on in AOL. He also barely lost against MVP when he was ahead in both games 2 and 3 in mech vs mech. Then he rolls through his code A bracket like no problem against his weakest matchup, and then tops the toughest group in GSL when it changed to bo3 format.
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Did you know that everytime Puma has won a major tournament, he did it by beating a Protoss in the finals? The more you know...
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On January 18 2012 13:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 13:12 Bagration wrote:On January 18 2012 13:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:55 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:51 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:48 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:36 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[quote]
Jjakji is overrated. His TvT is too weak to be considered a top 3 terran. His other matchups make up for it, just like MMA and MVP's TvPs are comparatively weak to jjakji's. MvP/MMA's TvP > Jjakji's TvT So? No one said jjakji was above MVP/MMA. I said he was 3rd best, and he won a GSL by beating, imo, the best PvT and at the time, best ZvT player. FACT IS MVP and MMA lost to the people jjakji beat in a bo5/bo7. You aren't the 3rd best player in the world simply because you won 2 series. Jjakji admitted that he would've lost the Oz series if Oz played more conservatively. MMA barely lost to Oz and he's beaten Leenock in every game since Providence. And MvP barely lost to Leenock. And is that why Jjakji ended up beating Oz 2-0 again in KSL? Name one player who deserves 3rd best over jjakji. The only player is Supernova, but there's something very important in being able to make it deep in tournaments and coming out with a win in high pressure situations. Is that why Younghwa beat him 2-1 in KSL? Damn, Finale has won a KSL but that doesn't make him a top Protoss in the world. Oz having the best PvT in the world is a questionable assumption anyway. Supernova, Polt, Keen, Ganzi. Lol so all of a sudden, GSL results don't matter because of "almosts", and the only thing that matters are head to head tvts. Ok. I was trying to prove a point that Jjakji deserved his win over Oz for sure, but I guess no win matters unless it's a sweep in GSL. You listed a player who couldn't manage to get into code S this season and who did VERY mediocre in the Blizzard Cup. He made it out of group stages by simply beating out a really bad nestea and a naniwa. Keen, who is very good yes, but is still up and coming and really there is no way to gauge his true skill yet because his most notable achievements were a team league all kill in bo1s against slayers and stomped out huk with some new meta. Seriously, Keen's tourn around from mediocre to good is nothing compared to jjakji's. Then Ganzi, who probably has the worst TvP I've ever seen, and Supernova, my #4. Let me remind everyone that jjakji did in fact go all the way and won the VERY LAST GSL. Well, there was this one time I saw this bronze guy play TvP... Joking aside, I do want to know why everybody thinks Supernova should be in the top 5. He is certainly very good, but what results does he have besides winning Code A a few months back? He did qualify for WCG, but was knocked out earlier than expected by a non-Korean. His Code S runs have not been spectacular either. I do agree with you that Jjakji is the 3rd Terran at this point, since MMA and MVP are the only terrans with GSL titles...ok enough of the "ignore Polt" game, but Polt is not playing that well anymore and is languishing in Code A. Qualifying for WCG in Korea/winning WCG Korea is much more difficult than WCG itself imo. The only reason he didn't take 2nd was because he had to play MVP in the ro4 instead of the finals. Then before this he beat out DRG twice in GSL and in AOL, then lost against MVP again later on in AOL. He also barely lost against MVP when he was ahead in both games 2 and 3 in mech vs mech. Then he rolls through his code A bracket like no problem against his weakest matchup, and then tops the toughest group in GSL when it changed to bo3 format.
Fair enough. Let's see how he does this season.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Too much talking by orb =/
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On January 18 2012 13:21 Bagration wrote:
Did you know that everytime Puma has won a major tournament, he did it by beating a Protoss in the finals? The more you know...
Ohh yeah. Puma's 1-1-1 is beastly
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he lost because he warped stalkers instead of zealots. he had to lift and get out after he lost his zealots because scv/marine wouldve demolished his remaining stalkers. really really not impressed at this commentator.
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On January 18 2012 13:26 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 13:21 Bagration wrote:
Did you know that everytime Puma has won a major tournament, he did it by beating a Protoss in the finals? The more you know... Ohh yeah. Puma's 1-1-1 is beastly
Yes, yes it is. But in all fairness, when he beat MC in the NASL finals, he did not use the 1-1-1 once in that 7 game series. When he played Hero in the season 2 finals, he used a 2 base variant only once. He plays to win, and against Protoss he does often.
Add Cyrano to the list of Puma's prey.
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On January 18 2012 13:24 lichter wrote:
Too much talking by orb =/
Agreed, I wish he wouldn't analyze for so long in between each game.
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Puma once again showing a beastly TvP. 1-1-1 or not, it's clearly his best matchup by far.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On January 18 2012 13:34 Tek_ wrote:Agreed, I wish he wouldn't analyze for so long in between each game.
And his analysis is a liiiittle flimsy. He shoul focus on commentating more than analyzing, and keep the pace of games fast and continuous.
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United States15275 Posts
On January 18 2012 13:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 12:55 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:51 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:48 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:44 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:36 CosmicSpiral wrote:On January 18 2012 12:33 Itsmedudeman wrote:On January 18 2012 12:32 ItsMeDomLee wrote:
[quote]
Who is your top 3 then? MVP, MMA, Jjakji. Pretty easy top 4 imo Jjakji is overrated. His TvT is too weak to be considered a top 3 terran. His other matchups make up for it, just like MMA and MVP's TvPs are comparatively weak to jjakji's. MvP/MMA's TvP > Jjakji's TvT So? No one said jjakji was above MVP/MMA. I said he was 3rd best, and he won a GSL by beating, imo, the best PvT and at the time, best ZvT player. FACT IS MVP and MMA lost to the people jjakji beat in a bo5/bo7. You aren't the 3rd best player in the world simply because you won 2 series. Jjakji admitted that he would've lost the Oz series if Oz played more conservatively. MMA barely lost to Oz and he's beaten Leenock in every game since Providence. And MvP barely lost to Leenock. And is that why Jjakji ended up beating Oz 2-0 again in KSL? Name one player who deserves 3rd best over jjakji. The only player is Supernova, but there's something very important in being able to make it deep in tournaments and coming out with a win in high pressure situations. Is that why Younghwa beat him 2-1 in KSL? Damn, Finale has won a KSL but that doesn't make him a top Protoss in the world. Oz having the best PvT in the world is a questionable assumption anyway. Supernova, Polt, Keen, Ganzi. Lol so all of a sudden, GSL results don't matter because of "almosts", and the only thing that matters are head to head tvts. Ok. I was trying to prove a point that Jjakji deserved his win over Oz for sure, but I guess no win matters unless it's a sweep in GSL. You listed a player who couldn't manage to get into code S this season and who did VERY mediocre in the Blizzard Cup. He made it out of group stages by simply beating out a really bad nestea and a naniwa. Keen, who is very good yes, but is still up and coming and really there is no way to gauge his true skill yet because his most notable achievements were a team league all kill in bo1s against slayers and stomped out huk with some new meta. Seriously, Keen's tourn around from mediocre to good is nothing compared to jjakji's. Then Ganzi, who probably has the worst TvP I've ever seen, and Supernova, my #4. Let me remind everyone that jjakji did in fact go all the way and won the VERY LAST GSL.
LOL so all of a sudden the results of one GSL are the only results that matter and everything else can be dismissed due to lack of importance? I can play this game all day.
Of course he deserved his win over Oz; short of poisoning his food Jjakji played better that day.
A player who got knocked down into Code A because of a BO loss (a specific snipe build to be precise) and a cheese that barely failed. And then he dominated his other opponents in macro games. Meanwhile he initially goes 3-1 in his Blizzard Cup group, proceeding to lose to the best ZvT in the world and barely loses to the player he just dominated in the last game. Then he loses 3-1 to MvP. First game is a scouted proxy Thor rush and pretty much an auto-loss, second game is genuinely poor play, third game he beats MvP with the same comp (marine/tank), fourth game he barely loses because of an incomplete BC transition.
Keen's been in the GSL since May and Code S since August. No new meta whatever from HuK, just poor builds. He's been mostly overlooked because of mediocre TvT, the very matchup Jjakji successfully avoided on his road to the GSL finals. Pretty insincere of you to dismiss BO1 team format since the best players in the world need to excel in all kinds of tournaments. Jjakji may have shown he is great at preparing for specific opponents but he is severely unproven in team leagues.
I'm sorry, you need to replace Ganzi with TOP and you would be correct.
Fact of the matter is Jjakji is just another bandwagon player at the moment and he has to prove that he has legitimate staying power. It's easy to crow about his games with Oz and Leenock and forget that he barely scraped by his Ro32 and Ro16 groups. It's easy to forget that the GSL champion depends just as much on luck as on skill to win, and that many tournament winners never reproduce their success again (Inca? Rainbow? Great? Kwanro?). The reason we call MvP and MMA the best terrans is because they have proven themselves to be consistent in all tournament types and all situations. Jjakji requires more time to ascertain his skill level. He's top 10 in my book but top 3 is stretching it.
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o huk still with the bad decisions 
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On January 18 2012 13:46 aintz wrote:o huk still with the bad decisions
O TheBest still with play I never ever ever want to watch (except to amuse me)
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On January 18 2012 13:46 aintz wrote:o huk still with the bad decisions
Yeah, after you see that there's no expansion and marauders you NEED to just start getting sentries and get ready for the all-in... especially when you're playing against TheBest. :/
I still have faith in HuK though ^_^
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EPT
