When: Tuesday, Dec 13 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Tuesday, Dec 13 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Format
This double-elimination tournament features 8 teams from around the world and is an All-Kill team format. This match is being played for the Losers Round 1. The first team to defeat everyone on the opposing team's roster (5 wins, or a best of 9), will move on in the Losers Bracket, while the loser will drop out of the tournament completely. Keep in mind that this has a $10,000 prize pool, and only three teams will make it to the money!
ReIGN had a surprising run against coLMVP, going up 3-1 before inevitably losing 4 players in a row to coLMVP.Keen. After showing some great games in WR1, Liquid should be prepared for a real battle. Team Liquid fell into LR1 at the hands of a Swedish Protoss player that goes by the name of QxG.SaSe! They will be looking for a shot at redemption this time against ReIGN. Here are there full rosters:
ReIGN Artist Spades KiWiKaKi Future Inori SLush giX
Team Liquid Jinro HerO Tyler HayprO TLO Ret Sheth Zenio
The First Game of the IPL Team Arena Challenge is on Tuesday, Dec 13 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Tuesday, Dec 13 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Inori < Tal'Darim Altar > HerO Inori < Shattered Temple > TLO Inori < Metalopolis > Ret Inori < Antiga Shipyard > Sheth Artist < Shakuras Plateau > Sheth Artist < Daybreak > Jinro Congratulations to Team ReIGN for winning 5-1 and advancing to LR2! Liquid has been eliminated from the tournament.
Map List
Xel'Naga Caverns Metalopolis Shakuras Plateau Crevasse Tal Darim Altar Dual Sight Xel'Naga Fortress Terminus Shattered Temple Daybreak Antiga Shipyard
The first map will be on a set rotation, and then it is loser's pick.
Casters
This week's games will be commentated by CatsPajamas, HDStarCraft, and/or PainUser
Stay up to date with IPL 4 Qualifiers, IPL TV, IPL Fight Club, and IPL Team Arena by checking our Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Justin.TV!
Liquid's foreigners are better than ReIGN's foreigners. Liquid's Koreans are better than ReIGN's Koreans. Liquid should take this comfortably. Then again they should have been able to beat Sase, and that didn't happen.
Heh, I think ReIGN's too strong to get swept.. Nevertheless, they're probably the underdogs here. They're definitely capable of pulling off an upset so it should make for an interesting match.
only problem i can see for reign and it's a pretty big one is the sheer amount of zergs liquid have reign has a whole lot of options for taking out great terran's and protross. they are much more limited in options against great zergs. Inori was weak against zergs in the past. slush feels zvz is his worst match up. i hear artist is pretty good against them but unless he sweeps all the zergs at once i fear they'll have trouble. kiwikaki can snipe any of the zergs but he can also lose to any of them so this will be difficult as i have no idea how well spades/gix/future would handle any of liquids zergs.
i hope they send out hero/tyler/jinro as long as we only have to face 2 zergs i think we have this easily.
This might be close. Inori is an incredibly strong PvP sniper, which could limit Hero's ability to take multiple kills. Artist is a very strong TvZ player, could definitely take down TLO, maybe Haypro and Ret, though probably not Sheth. Slush played very well against colMVP, taking 2 kills and putting up a good fight on the third before he decided to make 30 roaches and not push and various other questionable decisions. Even Spades might take a game.
I still think Liquid comes out on top in the end though.
Sheth should start, given his excellent PvZ (Reign top 3 players are protoss). If I can remember correctly, Inori has insanely good PvP and given Jinro weakness towards Protosses I actually see this as a closer match than some people might think. However, given Liquid's stronger lineup and Sheth PvZ, they should take this.
On December 13 2011 06:41 McFeser wrote: Sheth should start, given his excellent PvZ (Reign top 3 players are protoss). If I can remember correctly, Inori has insanely good PvP and given Jinro weakness towards Protosses I actually see this as a closer match than some people might think. However, given Liquid's stronger lineup and Sheth PvZ, they should take this.
not quite inori is the only protross that really qualifies as a top 3 in reign. however slush says zvz is his worse match up and inori has had trouble verse some zergs in the past. so the only top three person that is great against zerg is artist.
I Expect Slush to start for reign again simply from how bad it'd be if liquid sniped artist before he really took out any of the zergs or inori before he took out hero. slush has great zvt and zvp so he's probably the safest top three to start with and unless they start with a zerg or possably with hero i expect him to get atleast one win.
alternatively they might start with kiwikaki/spades/gix/future just to see who liquid sends and kiwikaki can take just about any one who's likely to start but he's just not consistant enough recently and frankly relies too heavily on cute timings.
On December 13 2011 06:09 Mirhi wrote: We who are about to die, salute you!
GL HF Liquid!
i just really don;t understand this quote don;t see how it's applicable here. what does it mean???
No matter what, one of the teams will be eliminated from the tournament, so it is essentially a fight to the death. Of course, this also applicable to most tournaments, but it is a very dramatic way to say Good luck Have fun.
On December 13 2011 06:09 Mirhi wrote: We who are about to die, salute you!
GL HF Liquid!
i just really don;t understand this quote don;t see how it's applicable here. what does it mean???
No matter what, one of the teams will be eliminated from the tournament, so it is essentially a fight to the death. Of course, this also applicable to most tournaments, but it is a very dramatic way to say Good luck Have fun.
ah ok still i was under the impression that these games were played atleast a little while before this? i don;t mean a long time but i didn;t think this was live so it just seems odd to me at any rate.
On December 13 2011 09:09 1Eris1 wrote: Wait, Liquid gets allkilled and Reign puts up an impressive performance vs MVP and you guys still think Liquid has this easy? o.O
^this so much, though this is team liquid's website so it makes sense for there to be lots of team liquid fans here. don;t get me wrong i am not saying that team liquid wont win heck they might even do it easily if reign plays terrible. but no way is either team going to have an easy time of it if both sides bring their a game. rooting for reign though come on reign and a colmvp reign rematch next round come on make it happen guys.
When were these played? I think everyone knows by now that these games are replays with live castings. It would be great if IGN can tell us when the games were actually played so we can gauge a player's skills at that time.
I wish we were told whos starting for each team first, would make things interesting to guess the line ups/ scores of the games. I wanna say Liquid wins but it will be close. Jinro wins a game, Hayder wins two and Hero gets 2
Today's games are approximately 3 weeks old. The further along we get in this tournament, the fresher the games are. We'll be cutting it close soon, hehe.
Liquid by a tiny edge! , they have alot of strong players compared to reign who a few proven. BUt again reign is able to take it too so grab the popcorn!
Liquid needs to recruit a good Terran badly. Jinro's not bad but he isn't keeping up anymore and has mostly fallen off the tournament scene. Having such an unbalanced team will make it harder for them to perform in team leagues.
On December 13 2011 09:40 Joshy.IGN wrote: Today's games are approximately 3 weeks old. The further along we get in this tournament, the fresher the games are. We'll be cutting it close soon, hehe.
Artist might beat a TL Zerg or two with a 2rax and Inori's PvP is pretty good, but I don't see them beating TL, especially with beasts like HerO, Ret, and Sheth.
On December 13 2011 10:06 bkrow wrote: Omg. HerO vs Inori - Inori is pretty much only good at PvP and after the SaSe vs HerO game i am not feeling good for HerO
Cmon TL!
Exactly my thoughts. Have not seen a solid Hero PvP against someone of Inori's caliber in some time. Hoping for the best, but not having high hopes.
On December 13 2011 10:11 jazzyjazz wrote: who's TL's best vP player? Ret?
Sheth had a reputation of being a ZvP specialist but he recently got matched against Terran after Terran after Terran so has had to focus his attention on vT (from my understanding)
I still think him or Ret are stronger vP then anyone else in their lineup
I actually thought TLO had something crazy planned with the evo first build... he must have just clicked the building instead of using a hotkey and somehow not noticed that it was the wrong building. I can't see him coming back from all of the void ray and pheonix harass now, I predict GG and Inori takes it any minute.
On December 13 2011 10:31 Ampere116 wrote: Inori never selected the Evo chamber. I figure TLO was just pretending he was getting his pool before hatch.
Inori's PvP is like super sick good. Kinda sad TL blindly sent in hero first into him, but at the same time I'm surprised reign didn't use him to snipe hero.
On December 13 2011 10:34 Djzapz wrote: I'm not usually BM llike that but come on TLO that was so bad....
I agree.
I feel that evo chamber was unintentional and at the latest when the voidray did so much damage, TLO decided to play gimmicky with banelings, trying to equalize the disadvantage he was in from the start by busting the mineral line. Didn't work out at all. Just overall bad play :/
On December 13 2011 10:34 Djzapz wrote: I'm not usually BM llike that but come on TLO that was so bad....
I agree.
I feel that evo chamber was unintentional and at the latest when the voidray did so much damage, TLO decided to play gimmicky with banelings, trying to equalize the disadvantage he was in from the start by busting the mineral line. Didn't work out at all. Just overall bad play :/
he probably felt he was so far behind that he had to kill off inoris economy and hold off the counter death push to win/balance
On December 13 2011 10:34 Djzapz wrote: I'm not usually BM llike that but come on TLO that was so bad....
I agree.
I feel that evo chamber was unintentional and at the latest when the voidray did so much damage, TLO decided to play gimmicky with banelings, trying to equalize the disadvantage he was in from the start by busting the mineral line. Didn't work out at all. Just overall bad play :/
he probably felt he was so far behind that he had to kill off inoris economy and hold off the counter death push to win/balance
Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
On December 13 2011 10:50 xrapture wrote: Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
Just get rid of the poll, it's misleading.
It reflects who people think will win, no reason to remove it. It just shows that people have a lot of confidence in Team Liquid, to the point of overrating them somewhat heavily.
On December 13 2011 10:50 xrapture wrote: Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
Just get rid of the poll, it's misleading.
look at the TLPD, check the elo ratings of reign's players and liquid's players. liquid's players elo is MUCHHH higher than.
On December 13 2011 10:50 xrapture wrote: Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
Just get rid of the poll, it's misleading.
It reflects who people think will win, no reason to remove it. It just shows that people have a lot of confidence in Team Liquid, to the point of overrating them somewhat heavily.
No, it's like polling the state of Colorado who they think will win out of Denver and Green Bay. It's completely superfluous.
On December 13 2011 10:50 xrapture wrote: Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
Just get rid of the poll, it's misleading.
look at the TLPD, check the elo ratings of reign's players and liquid's players. liquid's players elo is MUCHHH higher than.
That really is just an awful way to judge who's gonna win a match.
On December 13 2011 10:50 xrapture wrote: Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
Just get rid of the poll, it's misleading.
look at the TLPD, check the elo ratings of reign's players and liquid's players. liquid's players elo is MUCHHH higher than.
They also are in a lot more tournaments. Reign as a whole pretty much just does MLG's.
On December 13 2011 10:50 xrapture wrote: Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
Just get rid of the poll, it's misleading.
look at the TLPD, check the elo ratings of reign's players and liquid's players. liquid's players elo is MUCHHH higher than.
That really is just an awful way to judge who's gonna win a match.
I would disagree, it's not 100% accurate for sure, but it does give some indication. Reign might win, but people aren't wrong to initially to vote for liquid in the poll
On December 13 2011 10:50 xrapture wrote: Lol I don't even know why they make poll's in the OP when TL plays. 72%? really? Inori, artist, and kiwkaki are better than every player on TL besides Hero. Even last week when they were playing QuanticIM-- LOL the team with MvP, Nestea, Losira, Sase, etc, tl was still voted for more.
Just get rid of the poll, it's misleading.
look at the TLPD, check the elo ratings of reign's players and liquid's players. liquid's players elo is MUCHHH higher than.
That really is just an awful way to judge who's gonna win a match.
I would disagree, it's not 100% accurate for sure, but it does give some indication. Reign might win, but people aren't wrong to initially to vote for liquid in the poll
It really doesn't...like someone else said Liquid attends basically every event. Reign doesn't, it really isn't a fair form of measuring them.
lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
On December 13 2011 10:57 lastshadow wrote: lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
On December 13 2011 10:57 lastshadow wrote: lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
On December 13 2011 10:57 lastshadow wrote: lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
On December 13 2011 10:57 lastshadow wrote: lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
On December 13 2011 10:57 lastshadow wrote: lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
On December 13 2011 10:57 lastshadow wrote: lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
On December 13 2011 10:57 lastshadow wrote: lol anyone who thinks the RGN team can get past game of drones and then hero is silly. they might be able to beat one using a coinflip matchup (zvz or pvp) but not both lol, not with their lineup.
What the hell are you talking about? HerO already lost. In addition, Ret played a game of drones and lost, too.
So wait. Inori beat a Protoss and two Zergs, so the solution is another Zerg? Alright guys, good luck with Sheth. Inori rolled TLO and Ret, though TLO can be explained by that evolution chamber mistake. Ret just plain got blunk on.
If Sheth loses, they better send in Jinro. Inori doesn't lose PvP, so Tyler isn't an option and that'd be 3 Z rolled in a row, so Zenio and Haypro wouldn't make much sense either.
On December 13 2011 11:09 Negatiive wrote: I don't think inori can beat sheth tbh.. if anything they should send slush to go and snipe sheth.. slush has a thing for zvz
up 3-1, slush is the obvious choice against sheth.
I don't understand Sheth's plan. Why is he so passive? Why did he let that army go after blinking into the high ground? Didn't it seem obvious that it would blink down and go after the gold?
On December 13 2011 11:25 DR.Ham wrote: Such an awful feeling to watch that as a zerg. That Sheth can still be manner after that is a testament to his character.
Writing GG and actually thinking it are two very different things
I don't understand. It's as if the players on Team Liquid just become significantly worse than they normally are when it's a team event and not an individual event. These are not the players I am familiar with.
That wasn't an auto win though... Not building a spine at all? getting his drones/zerglings stuck outside the base/ artist being known for being extremely aggressive and opening up hatch first.
On December 13 2011 11:25 DR.Ham wrote: Such an awful feeling to watch that as a zerg. That Sheth can still be manner after that is a testament to his character.
Writing GG and actually thinking it are two very different things
On December 12 2011 23:38 Catatonic wrote: only way I can see Reign winning games is with Kiwikaki though Liquid across the board is far too strong for Reign to even come close to handling.
On December 12 2011 23:38 Catatonic wrote: only way I can see Reign winning games is with Kiwikaki though Liquid across the board is far too strong for Reign to even come close to handling.
So sad to see that cheese. Maybe now that it's happening to fan favorite zergs (aka not Idra) people will see how ridiculous it is. Still hurts my soul to see.
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
I do say Holmes I think you've solved this mystery.
On December 13 2011 11:32 jnsjr wrote: So sad to see that cheese. Maybe now that it's happening to fan favorite zergs (aka not Idra) people will see how ridiculous it is. Still hurts my soul to see.
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
I do say Holmes I think you've solved this mystery.
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
By 1.5 months you mean 3 weeks right?
My bad its 4+ weeks according to jinros match history
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
By 1.5 months you mean 3 weeks right?
My bad its 4+ weeks according to jinros match history
I'm pretty sure jinro customs all the time being a professional sc2 player.
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
I do say Holmes I think you've solved this mystery.
I see what you did there. Cute
I don't know about cute. I would say it was...elementary.
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
On December 13 2011 11:31 Xaga wrote: I don't get why people are consistently overestimating Team Liquid. I guess because this is their website? I'm not really sure.
Liquid has a bunch of faces that are every ones fan favorites, thats why.
But these games were played still 1.5months ago so no one should expect much...
Icebox: holds the universal opinion.
Nobody on Liquid is among my favourite players.
Liquid has done a great job of being ambassadors for SC2. They play in a lot of tournaments, usually bring a significant part of their roster, and are willing to play anywhere: Korea, NA, and Europe. More teams are doing this now, but Liquid was pretty much the first. Even without the connection to TL the website, it's natural that TL would have a lot of fan support. However, it's also probably true that they have always been over-rated due to this early exposure.
On December 13 2011 11:48 A Wet Shamwow wrote: "Mech is the best in TvT" ~ Artosis
When it comes to opinions about Terran, you'll have to excuse Artosis. He lives in his own little world where everything either is or should be just like BW.
On December 13 2011 11:48 NipponBanzai wrote: Haha just read all the earlier predictions. It is quite humorous.
everybody else: TL IS GONNA GO 5-2/5-1/5-0!! yeah that didnt turn out real well ...
Read any thread of any game involving a TL player and that's how the majority of the posts will look... Check the results of this tournament... That's generally how the results will look for Liquid in anything (Hero being the exeption).
I don't mind people cheering for their favorite team, but it's a bit ridiculous how many people think Liquid is the best team by far and will crush any opponent; it just doesn't happen. Maybe someday it will, but it's not likely anytime soon.
I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
On December 13 2011 11:48 A Wet Shamwow wrote: "Mech is the best in TvT" ~ Artosis
When it comes to opinions about Terran, you'll have to excuse Artosis. He lives in his own little world where everything either is or should be just like BW.
Before the helion nerf it was the best. Even now a maxed mech army will destroy a maxed bio or bio/tank army. Jinro illustrated his sentiments about the change saying mech is the way tvt should be played (with which I agree), and that Blizzard is trying to turn tvt into a bio a move fest.
Mech tvt is still really strong and mvp does it regularly.
Also, please don't judge mech from this game. Jinro is a great guy and all, but he's Artist is in another class when it comes to SC2.
Help me out here. Where was Jinro's army? That was 40 supply locked up in marines/medvacs, and Jinro was up by like 8-10 going into the fight. AND THEN Jinro lost the air battle and badly. So clearly he had fewer Vikings.... I don't get it. Did he massively over-produce workers? Did he just have 20 extra tanks that ALL died when marines fell on them? Where was that extra supply?
On December 13 2011 11:53 Rinny wrote: I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
Inori, who took 3 kills does not reside in NA either.
So even if the game were played on NA, it's not a valid excuse.
On December 13 2011 11:53 Rinny wrote: I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
Teams strong individual performances? I dun think so.Only HerO and Ret are giving strong individual performance.The rest not so much.
On December 13 2011 11:53 Rinny wrote: I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
Inori, who took 3 kills does not reside in NA either.
So even if the game were played on NA, it's not a valid excuse.
This. He's going to live in the RGN house, but for now I'm pretty sure he lives in Korea.
On December 13 2011 11:53 Rinny wrote: I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
Teams strong individual performances? I dun think so.Only HerO and Ret are giving strong individual performance.The rest not so much.
not ret either besides some decent MLG performances...seriously Hero is the ONLY liquid hope.
On December 13 2011 11:54 GeorgeForeman wrote: Help me out here. Where was Jinro's army? That was 40 supply locked up in marines/medvacs, and Jinro was up by like 8-10 going into the fight. AND THEN Jinro lost the air battle and badly. So clearly he had fewer Vikings.... I don't get it. Did he massively over-produce workers? Did he just have 20 extra tanks that ALL died when marines fell on them? Where was that extra supply?
Jinro did lose a shitload of tanks during that siegefest, but i think he was also producing too much bio/scvs. Artist just had the superior tank count, and that in macro TvTs is the important factor.
On December 13 2011 11:48 NipponBanzai wrote: Haha just read all the earlier predictions. It is quite humorous.
Not really. You're pretty deluded if you couldn't see Liquid beating Reign. Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it can't.
HerO is capable of taking out any of the Reign roster except Inori - he got blindly sniped by Reign on the first map which was unfortunate. Had HerO been available, Ret and Sheth are more than capable back ups to do some serious damage. Liquid` certainly has the potential to win they just played pretty poorly. They really needed HerO to be available for SLush and Artist especially after Reign sent Inori out game 1
On December 13 2011 11:53 Rinny wrote: I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
Teams strong individual performances? I dun think so.Only HerO and Ret are giving strong individual performance.The rest not so much.
not ret either besides some decent MLG performances...seriously Hero is the ONLY liquid hope.
On December 13 2011 11:54 GeorgeForeman wrote: Help me out here. Where was Jinro's army? That was 40 supply locked up in marines/medvacs, and Jinro was up by like 8-10 going into the fight. AND THEN Jinro lost the air battle and badly. So clearly he had fewer Vikings.... I don't get it. Did he massively over-produce workers? Did he just have 20 extra tanks that ALL died when marines fell on them? Where was that extra supply?
Jinro did lose a shitload of tanks during that siegefest, but i think he was also producing too much bio/scvs. Artist just had the superior tank count, and that in macro TvTs is the important factor.
Wait, what? He had the superior tank count, 40+ supply in marine/medvac, AND more air units, ALL with fewer supply than Jinro?
On December 13 2011 11:48 NipponBanzai wrote: Haha just read all the earlier predictions. It is quite humorous.
Not really. You're pretty deluded if you couldn't see Liquid beating Reign. Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it can't.
HerO is capable of taking out any of the Reign roster except Inori - he got blindly sniped by Reign on the first map which was unfortunate. Had HerO been available, Ret and Sheth are more than capable back ups to do some serious damage. Liquid` certainly has the potential to win they just played pretty poorly. They really needed HerO to be available for SLush and Artist especially after Reign sent Inori out game 1
lolwut? I honestly thought liquid would win too... That's why it's funny?
We had really high expectations for TL but they lost both team games and they looked both aweful. I hope Liquid will step up because it's very disappoiting for now.
On December 13 2011 11:53 Rinny wrote: I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
Teams strong individual performances? I dun think so.Only HerO and Ret are giving strong individual performance.The rest not so much.
not ret either besides some decent MLG performances...seriously Hero is the ONLY liquid hope.
On December 13 2011 11:54 GeorgeForeman wrote: Help me out here. Where was Jinro's army? That was 40 supply locked up in marines/medvacs, and Jinro was up by like 8-10 going into the fight. AND THEN Jinro lost the air battle and badly. So clearly he had fewer Vikings.... I don't get it. Did he massively over-produce workers? Did he just have 20 extra tanks that ALL died when marines fell on them? Where was that extra supply?
Jinro did lose a shitload of tanks during that siegefest, but i think he was also producing too much bio/scvs. Artist just had the superior tank count, and that in macro TvTs is the important factor.
Wait, what? He had the superior tank count, 40+ supply in marine/medvac, AND more air units, ALL with fewer supply than Jinro?
That makes no sense.
artist never had superior bio army. JINRO had the better MMM army, but artist definitely had more tanks and more vikings, and tbh thats the only thing that matters in a TvT. It helps that Jinro never killed off any scvs and stayed at the 60ish range while artist sacked a bunch when he was pushing to get more tanks. idk where you got the 'artist had 40+ supply in marine/medvac'
On December 13 2011 11:48 NipponBanzai wrote: Haha just read all the earlier predictions. It is quite humorous.
Not really. You're pretty deluded if you couldn't see Liquid beating Reign. Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it can't.
HerO is capable of taking out any of the Reign roster except Inori - he got blindly sniped by Reign on the first map which was unfortunate. Had HerO been available, Ret and Sheth are more than capable back ups to do some serious damage. Liquid` certainly has the potential to win they just played pretty poorly. They really needed HerO to be available for SLush and Artist especially after Reign sent Inori out game 1
LOL its cuz liquid lost...everybody expected them to roll over reign ezpz, but that didnt happen
On December 13 2011 11:53 Rinny wrote: I hate to be that guy but are all the games played on NA? if so RGN would be at an advantage because all their players because of liquids roster, only sheth and tyler reside in NA and of them only sheth has had strong results lately. Calling TL weak based on these team leagues is unfair especially considering the teams strong individual performances.
Teams strong individual performances? I dun think so.Only HerO and Ret are giving strong individual performance.The rest not so much.
not ret either besides some decent MLG performances...seriously Hero is the ONLY liquid hope.
On December 13 2011 11:54 GeorgeForeman wrote: Help me out here. Where was Jinro's army? That was 40 supply locked up in marines/medvacs, and Jinro was up by like 8-10 going into the fight. AND THEN Jinro lost the air battle and badly. So clearly he had fewer Vikings.... I don't get it. Did he massively over-produce workers? Did he just have 20 extra tanks that ALL died when marines fell on them? Where was that extra supply?
Jinro did lose a shitload of tanks during that siegefest, but i think he was also producing too much bio/scvs. Artist just had the superior tank count, and that in macro TvTs is the important factor.
Wait, what? He had the superior tank count, 40+ supply in marine/medvac, AND more air units, ALL with fewer supply than Jinro?
That makes no sense.
artist never had superior bio army. JINRO had the better MMM army, but artist definitely had more tanks and more vikings, and tbh thats the only thing that matters in a TvT. It helps that Jinro never killed off any scvs and stayed at the 60ish range while artist sacked a bunch when he was pushing to get more tanks. idk where you got the 'artist had 40+ supply in marine/medvac'
Were you even watching the game? Artist broke Jinro's tank line by taking 4-5 medvacs full of marines (--> 40 supply) and dropping marines all over it.
And Jinro NEVER had a bio army?! He made some marines (like, 8), but it was hellion/tank the rest of the way with a couple banshees and like 8 vikings thrown in. At least, that's the entire army he had in the middle of the map when he got wrecked.
You may be right about the SCVs. I didn't see Artist sack any SCVs (casters didn't put unit tab up too often), so that could account for some of the difference.
But people are giving too much shit to Liquid and there is signifigant precadence for TL destroying foriegn teams. In the GCP they 3-1ed most teams (except a 3-0 by Mouz and a 3-2 by EG). They also took 3 games off SlayerS, however I wouldn't argue that is a good result. TL needs to be beat teams like SlayerS and especially lower tier teams like Reign. If I am reading some of the TLer's opinions correctly, there's a belief that TL doesn't have what it takes to become such a high tier team.
That's simply not true. This is just the low point for TL.
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
yes 5-1 pretty much the best i could ever have even dreamed of happening. that said this was much closer than the score really says it was. Inori performed absolutely amazingly while he has beaten some korean zergs pvz really is his worse matchup i have seen him seem completely lost against some zergs.
but here he played mind games with ret he immediately built four gate units made ret think he had to build army and he only had roach zergling available. he then kept making ret think that he had to keep massing them because he was being aggressive/pretending to be aggressive. but then he never attacked when ret though he was so ret was stuck with the wrong units that he thought he needed at the time.
if artist had decided not to go for such a direct snipe seth could potentually have beat him and then reign would be down two of their best players with slush not liking zvz and any one else being iffy in winning against seth. this really could of gone to 5-4 5-5 if just a few things had been different.
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
On December 13 2011 11:48 NipponBanzai wrote: Haha just read all the earlier predictions. It is quite humorous.
Not really. You're pretty deluded if you couldn't see Liquid beating Reign. Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it can't.
HerO is capable of taking out any of the Reign roster except Inori - he got blindly sniped by Reign on the first map which was unfortunate. Had HerO been available, Ret and Sheth are more than capable back ups to do some serious damage. Liquid` certainly has the potential to win they just played pretty poorly. They really needed HerO to be available for SLush and Artist especially after Reign sent Inori out game 1
Obviously they have potential to win, doesn't mean you should automatically go into defense mode for TL claiming it was this and that reason for why they didn't do good. They lost, and that's that. You're only as good as the last game/tournament you played, saying otherwise is really foolish.
It was a tough tourny for TL going 1-10, they should just use it as another reason to get better, that's all.
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
Yes, I agree that Inori and Artist are really good players (in the foreign scene). Inori is an incredible PvP sniper, having taken out so many strong protoss players. Artist is also very good, using the bunker rush to beat Sheth and outplaying Jinro. But I know Liquid (though a bit overhyped) has the potential to do better. This tournament was just sad.
Still, I do not want to take away from ReIGN's huge victory. Congrats ReIGN!
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
isn't hero supposed to be some god playing Protoss? aren't Sheth, Ret, and Jinro supposed to be beastly now? or at least thats what all the TL fanboys are saying
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
isn't hero supposed to be some god playing Protoss? aren't Sheth, Ret, and Jinro supposed to be beastly now? or at least thats what all the TL fanboys are saying
Hero isn't even code A.. the rest of TL is pretty inconsistent but they are certainly good players.
I can't help but feel a bit cheated. ReIGN is supposed to be a foreign team yet they send out 2 Koreans. Opportunities to see Kiwikaki and Slush play in a significant tournament are not frequent and I really wanted to see how they would fare against Liquid's foreigners.
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
isn't hero supposed to be some god playing Protoss? aren't Sheth, Ret, and Jinro supposed to be beastly now? or at least thats what all the TL fanboys are saying
i wouldn't necessarily say its wrong and i say that as a reign fan it's just that inori is a godslayer vs protross and the next level up from beastly against others while artist is again a step above beastly.
I don;t think it's wrong for there to be so many levels of talent seth/ret/jinro are so good that beastly is a crediable way of describing them but there is always some one better.
Hmm I just noticed that Quantic is going to play against Complexity next. Since these games were played awhile ago what are the odds we see Naniwa play against his current team?
On December 13 2011 14:52 red4ce wrote: I can't help but feel a bit cheated. ReIGN is supposed to be a foreign team yet they send out 2 Koreans. Opportunities to see Kiwikaki and Slush play in a significant tournament are not frequent and I really wanted to see how they would fare against Liquid's foreigners.
Liquid used HerO... Every team that has Koreans uses them, that's the point of getting them.
On December 13 2011 15:01 Horse...falcon wrote: Hmm I just noticed that Quantic is going to play against Complexity next. Since these games were played awhile ago what are the odds we see Naniwa play against his current team?
i'd say bad as it was only a few days ago he switched and while the games are going to become more and more recent as the tournament goes on i just don;t think it'll be that recent.
edit oh sorry misunderstood what was being said now that i do I'd say it's actually pretty dang likely.
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
isn't hero supposed to be some god playing Protoss? aren't Sheth, Ret, and Jinro supposed to be beastly now? or at least thats what all the TL fanboys are saying
They're solid foreign players, but they certainly don't outclass other great foreigners. I'm honestly never wowed by Ret's play, but maybe that's just me.
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
isn't hero supposed to be some god playing Protoss? aren't Sheth, Ret, and Jinro supposed to be beastly now? or at least thats what all the TL fanboys are saying
Hero isn't even code A.. the rest of TL is pretty inconsistent but they are certainly good players.
If you insult people please atleast get it right. You are just making a fool out of yourself.
OT: Nice job of Reign grats to the win. Liquid should get some rest enjoy the holiday's and come back fresh and for revenge.
On December 13 2011 14:52 red4ce wrote: I can't help but feel a bit cheated. ReIGN is supposed to be a foreign team yet they send out 2 Koreans. Opportunities to see Kiwikaki and Slush play in a significant tournament are not frequent and I really wanted to see how they would fare against Liquid's foreigners.
Liquid used HerO... Every team that has Koreans uses them, that's the point of getting them.
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
isn't hero supposed to be some god playing Protoss? aren't Sheth, Ret, and Jinro supposed to be beastly now? or at least thats what all the TL fanboys are saying
Hero isn't even code A.. the rest of TL is pretty inconsistent but they are certainly good players.
If you insult people please atleast get it right. You are just making a fool out of yourself.
...Hero dropped out of Code A, lost to some terran. he'll be playing the Up/Downs sometime soon
On December 13 2011 14:52 red4ce wrote: I can't help but feel a bit cheated. ReIGN is supposed to be a foreign team yet they send out 2 Koreans. Opportunities to see Kiwikaki and Slush play in a significant tournament are not frequent and I really wanted to see how they would fare against Liquid's foreigners.
Liquid used HerO... Every team that has Koreans uses them, that's the point of getting them.
On December 13 2011 13:54 Bagration wrote: What just happened? Liquid 1-10 and out?
Not going to lie, that was an embarassing showing for Liquid. I could attribute the all-kill by Sase as a surprise that caught them off guard, but to allow themselves to get overrun again is either due to them not caring or simply being burnt out (I cannot bring myself to say that the team does not have talent).
Liquid did seem to lack depth though, and after Hero and Sheth were sniped it was basically over (TLO played very...strangely, Ret used a unit composition that was just very poor, and Jinro was just outplayed). Sad day
Or due to inori and artist being very good players?
isn't hero supposed to be some god playing Protoss? aren't Sheth, Ret, and Jinro supposed to be beastly now? or at least thats what all the TL fanboys are saying
Hero isn't even code A.. the rest of TL is pretty inconsistent but they are certainly good players.
If you insult people please atleast get it right. You are just making a fool out of yourself.
...Hero dropped out of Code A, lost to some terran. he'll be playing the Up/Downs sometime soon
Hero did not drop out of Code A. If you are playing in Up/Down matches that guarantees you a spot in Code A next season.
I like the liquid players, will support so long as you show you are trying hard. Cmon TLO (that beard is gettin huge...) and Jinro (try to be a timing attacker for the time being?)! Hope your hard work & dedication pays off!!
well they got stuffed again. They need another Terran player Jinro just isnt delivering or been delivering for month and months Cant rmemeber last time he played outstanding
At least Liquid fought until the end and did not forfeit. Fighting to the end and losing is very sad and disappointing, but at least they finished. That being said, I really hope Liquid starts practicing harder. I heard the Ret only practices a few hours a day, and Tyler and TLO have started practicing again. Practice harder and get some more results please.
On December 14 2011 04:19 Catatonic wrote: Liquid choked big time. Reign isnt even close to being in the same level of skill that Liquid has so it was a definate choke job
Except not really. Inori and artist are better than everybody on liquid but hero and kiwikaki an slush are pretty solid too. Can't comment on Zeno since there's been like four televised games of his on total these past couple months.
they just dont have that good of a lineup anymore ret is soooo snipeable and tlo tyler haypro are not on the right level to compete with players like inori or artist (eventhough i think tlo can get there again) hero is really good and so is sheth but they just cant keep up with teams like mouz that have an overall strong lineup
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YwMM8.png)
IPL Team Arena Challenge![[image loading]](http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7555/reignnewicon.png)
Artist
KiWiKaKi
SLush![[image loading]](http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8451/teamliquidicon.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AiAgN.png)
Facebook![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xBVkG.png)
Twitter![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x6Xnq.png)
YouTube
and after the SaSe vs HerO game i am not feeling good for HerO
TLO
Jinro
