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Here we go again. This weekend is about good games and good fun. Don't rain on that parade. Play nice guys. Here's the very standard and friendly:
- NO Balance Whine.
- NO Player Bashing.
- NO Caster Bashing.
- NO BM whatsoever.
Breaking these rules (from pg 166 forward) will be met with severe punishment. |
On November 21 2011 12:24 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:05 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. you just hate koreans that's all. Actually, the top players aren't even playing sc2 in korea. Huk and Nani has had some success sure, but they are only a few people that can compete with Koreans atm. And korea is one country, god forbid they lose. why are you only bringing up Koreans, when in the crowd I saw a bunch of non Koreans booing Naniwa? No I just like underdogs(foreigners) winning. I also hate the high and mighty mentality of the koreans. All the time you hear that Koreans are so special etc and they have a gift(which I also believe they think themselves) when it comes to gaming. It´s pretty apperent that they only want koreans to win every competition regardless of the team because they have so huge E-sport egos. When in fact... They have a player pool of 12h/day grinding players that probably are as large as USA/Europe combined. In Europe very few will be full time players in any E-sport for example, and yet the few that play as much as the koreans can beat the top koreans(SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain, Haypro and formerly Jinro to just name a few swedes). Or how about the wonder boy Stephano who even declared that he I´snt gonna keep playing more than a year. I´m just happy that people maybe are starting to understand that Koreans doesn´t have(if any) genetic advantage over foreigners when it comes to be good at E-sport... Else they would have kicked the world´s asses in WoW and CS as well. cliffs: I think koreans have huge egos when it comes to E-sport and looks down on the rest of the world cause they think they are "special". I however love when the very very few professional foreign players beats them. Considering how few they are it is worth mentioning that the ones who live in Korea also kicks ass. Huk, SaSe and Naniwa have all showed how little time they need with the same training conditions as so many koreans have to be able to beat the top koreans. FLAK ON
Do you even know any koreans? Most people who praise korean skill are foreigners. Even MVP said there was no difference between him and top level foreigners which I consider to be a pretty humble statement.
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SC2 pros just need to watch pro wrestling to know how to get fans. To sum it up in wrestling terms, Nani took a chair to Nestea for no reason after beating him. MC takes a chair to Idra after Idra hits a bunch of people in the head with chairs. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I think people didn't think Nestea deserved the bm and it wasn't an entertaining bm like MC. MC trys to be a showman, like a pro wrestler, which is awesome :D.
BTW I think both Nani and Leenok played amazing and are amazing. I just wanted to clarify the Nani thing. I think it's good for all players to show emotion. Next time Nani and Nestea play each other EVERYONE will be watching and it will be epic. Go esports!
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On November 21 2011 12:25 jyLee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:17 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:14 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:11 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:08 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:00 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 11:55 diophan wrote:On November 21 2011 11:50 Anton K wrote:
What could have been the best tournament in the world was ruined for me by the fact of discusting behaviour from people in the audience booing Naniwa. Not only booing but laughing when he did mistakes.. And the hate he has been getting here on TL, Reddit and pms on Twitter I'd be surprised if that didnt tilt him. You could see after he beat HuK and DRG that he looked ashamed. He looked like he thought everyone hated him.
I take no credit away from Leenok. He exploited naniwas only weakness and you play this game to win not to give crowds entertainting games. Leenok is an absolutily amazing player and I am happy for him!
I guess I am really upset because I wanted Naniwa to throw the victory in all the haters face. All the people saying even though he beat Nestea TWICE in a bo3 that he is a noob, scrub that can't even get past the round 1 in Code A.
The behaviour of the MLG crowd, Reddit and TL should fucking be ashamed of themselves. You all hold Naniwa so accountable for his actions but look at your fucking self.
I can't wait for Dreamhack where I and alot of other swedes will be. Fuck I am gonna scream my lungs out for you Naniwa! Atleast he has a Code S spot now and I think we will be able to see our first foreigner Code S champion pretty soon. I hold those who get paid to play a game to high standards. I'm sorry if you don't like Nani getting boo'd, but it's hypocritical to be BM to Nestea and to the tournament and expect everyone to be completely respectful to him. Bollocks. Naniwa didn't bm Nestea, he did a little thumbs down ceremony when he beat him big whoop we've seen it done a hundred times. Booing a player on stage is fucking unacceptable imo. Maybe you didnt catch Naniwa's interview where he basically called Nestea a trash player. He goes out of his way to trash Nestea which is hilarious because the dude has won 2 gsl championships. Its also funny that a code A player calls out a two time GSL champ. Well at least Naniwa got his poor mans Code S spot. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287295Maybe you didn't catch the bit where he apologised and said that it was never his intention to insult Nestea. See I actually check I know what I'm talking about before I, you know, talk about it. So now that he apologised its all good, lol. He's bm and hes proven it multiple times at this mlg. Maybe you didnt catch him trashing MLG during a game either. Dude has zero class and nobody can blame fans for booing him. Apologised for the miscommunication. Because that's what it was; he didn't apologise for calling Professor Tea an idiot, he apologised for appearing to when he really didn't mean to. I saw him calling MLG a joke tournament. As I pointed out, Idra has done the same and worse and he still gets some of the loudest support. So now your just crying about why Naniwa has no friends when Idra has so many. I just cannot fathom why anyone would be angry at the fans for booing an unlikable person. Real mature.
Immature for saying people shouldnt boo at a player who just accomplished maybe the best result a foreigner have ever done?
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On November 21 2011 12:24 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:05 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. you just hate koreans that's all. Actually, the top players aren't even playing sc2 in korea. Huk and Nani has had some success sure, but they are only a few people that can compete with Koreans atm. And korea is one country, god forbid they lose. why are you only bringing up Koreans, when in the crowd I saw a bunch of non Koreans booing Naniwa? No I just like underdogs(foreigners) winning. I also hate the high and mighty mentality of the koreans. All the time you hear that Koreans are so special etc and they have a gift(which I also believe they think themselves) when it comes to gaming. It´s pretty apperent that they only want koreans to win every competition regardless of the team because they have so huge E-sport egos. When in fact... They have a player pool of 12h/day grinding players that probably are as large as USA/Europe combined. In Europe very few will be full time players in any E-sport for example, and yet the few that play as much as the koreans can beat the top koreans(SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain, Haypro and formerly Jinro to just name a few swedes). Or how about the wonder boy Stephano who even declared that he I´snt gonna keep playing more than a year. I´m just happy that people maybe are starting to understand that Koreans doesn´t have(if any) genetic advantage over foreigners when it comes to be good at E-sport... Else they would have kicked the world´s asses in WoW and CS as well. cliffs: I think koreans have huge egos when it comes to E-sport and looks down on the rest of the world cause they think they are "special". I however love when the very very few professional foreign players beats them. Considering how few they are it is worth mentioning that the ones who live in Korea also kicks ass. Huk, SaSe and Naniwa have all showed how little time they need with the same training conditions as so many koreans have to be able to beat the top koreans. FLAK ON
I don't think that they think they're special, they know they practice harder than foreigners and their results for the past decade have shown that.
You just seem like you're hating. No one thinks "omg korean genes = good sc".
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On November 21 2011 12:28 beeehappy wrote:
SC2 pros just need to watch pro wrestling to know how to get fans. To sum it up in wrestling terms, Nani took a chair to Nestea for no reason after beating him. MC takes a chair to Idra after Idra hits a bunch of people in the head with chairs. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I think people didn't think Nestea deserved the bm and it wasn't an entertaining bm like MC. MC trys to be a showman, like a pro wrestler, which is awesome :D.
BTW I think both Nani and Leenok played amazing and are amazing. I just wanted to clarify the Nani thing. I think it's good for all players to show emotion. Next time Nani and Nestea play each other EVERYONE will be watching and it will be epic. Go esports!
I thought all that wrestling stuff was fake 
Kind of wished I watched this MLG. Seemed to miss oh so much drama..
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On November 21 2011 12:27 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:14 mordk wrote:On November 21 2011 12:11 discodancer wrote:
I actually think this tournament proved that foreigners are no match. Reasons? I think Nestea's loss to Naniwa was a fluke. I just can't explain wtf he was doing using those builds. Might be affected by alleged shit-talking.
Huk was picked apart by Naniwa, horribly. That kind of shows how good he is facing tough opponents where it's not a thought-out BO win. And both Naniwa and Huk just seemed sloppy compared to koreans.
Idra was rolled by Leenock, not even close. I don't know who else deserves to even be in this conversation. The gap is huge. I've said this all weekend. Well, not that Nani's wins were a fluke, but that Zergs have made awful BO against protoss this entire tournament. Leenock brought sanity back from the grave it seems by making options actually worthy of human intelligence. DRG and NesTea... just played terribly. I expected it out of DRG who is always lost in ZvP but of NesTea?? Really strange, his decision making was like... abysmal, and that is normally his biggest asset. Guys . . . Shut up. Please. Please. Please. How can any sane person argue that Koreans are better than foriegners because when they lose it's because they aren't good at the matchup in question. How does that make any sense at all? Or do you honestly think that Koreans have something magical in their blood?
Ehm.. if you might try to read what I posted? It says it right there "not that nani's wins were a fluke". I don't think they were, he played well, but NesTea played sub-par and DRG has always sucked vs Protoss I don't see where the problem is. When a zerg decided to counter nani's build he swooped him, when zerg was playing into nani's 2-base aggression they lost, how hard is it to understand?
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On November 21 2011 12:02 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 11:51 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:45 Grend wrote:On November 21 2011 11:44 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:On November 21 2011 11:41 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:39 HowardRoark wrote:On November 21 2011 11:34 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:34 StarStruck wrote:On November 21 2011 11:32 Femari wrote:
[quote]
are they seriously complaining about leenock winning unhonourably with what naniwa did yesterday? Heat of the moment man you see shit like that all the time with everyone else. Naniwa is no different. It only makes him human, so I wouldn't keep picking at that bone. you see people sneaking peeks at replays to figure out what build the opponent is using? since when? This is really an hot potato if what StarStruck posted is true. This sneakypeaky at high level WoL, is it actually something common? Seems like some huge news. Are you a whistle blower, or maybe you were referring to something else? Multiple people confirmed that Naniwa pulled up the replay of a game that was restarted (g3 v Nestea on Shak) due to it starting when on a commercial break. The replay that showed him what? The post-game screen shows build-orders anyway. Yeah so? The point is that he was the cause of restarting the game and that people calling Leenock punishing Naniwa's greed "dishonourable" is ridiculous considering what Naniwa did to Nestea. What did he do? Please elaborate on your accusations. During the break between game 2 and 3 of the series between Nestea and Naniwa, Naniwa chose Shak and set up the game himself. Something happened (miscommunication most likely) and they went to a commercial break. Naniwa had started the game though and they both played around 1:37 of game time so they had to stop it cause it wasn't being casted. After that they went to the restroom during the break and Naniwa got back first and started watching the replay. An official apparently tried to stop him but it was too late and he saw Nestea's main and the build. Then they started the new game and since Nestea was cross spawn in the replay Naniwa assumed it was cross only. He got upset. Started typing on screen which MLG could do nothing about. They then let the coach in apparently to relay messages from the admin (idk why) and then the game started again. Basically he did nothing against the rules, but he sure as hell did nothing honorable. But this was in the thread yesterday. Multiple people who were there have been saying this. About watching the replay thing: As MLG has stated time and time again it is actually not breaking any rules. In addition he could gain mostly any information he needed from watching the end game score screen. MLG also concluded that him watching the replay did not affect the result and even did a press statement about it.
From MLG:
"After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise.
Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC"
Just because you could see the build order doesn't meant players should, and just because you can see it, doesn't meant you should go even further by checking replay. The match shouldn't even restarted in the first place, that means players wouldn't able to access these info under normal circumstance. This is essentially cheating meta game wise.
Yes he didn't broke any rules, but since MLG is planning to fix it, it means it's bad enough that they going to stop it.
Just because the current rules didn't cover it, doesn't meant his action is justified, he is just isn't held accountable. That is why many people spoke out. However this thing is already settled, and MLG learnt heaps from this.
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On November 21 2011 12:23 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:19 dmnum wrote:On November 21 2011 12:16 Hubris wrote:
"People still think Naniwa was calling Nestea an idiot?"
yeah, how dare people state what factually happened! He did NOT call nestea an idiot, he said pulling the drones was an idiotic move, and given how that game turned out, can you say otherwise? Seriously, stop spewing shit if you don't bother to actually read the thread. The literal translation is apparently "nestea is an idiot", but is used to mean "that thing he did is idiotic"... or so I've surmised from reading this.
He said that in relation to the ingame move, watch the interview people.
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On November 21 2011 12:24 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:05 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. you just hate koreans that's all. Actually, the top players aren't even playing sc2 in korea. Huk and Nani has had some success sure, but they are only a few people that can compete with Koreans atm. And korea is one country, god forbid they lose. why are you only bringing up Koreans, when in the crowd I saw a bunch of non Koreans booing Naniwa? No I just like underdogs(foreigners) winning. I also hate the high and mighty mentality of the koreans. All the time you hear that Koreans are so special etc and they have a gift(which I also believe they think themselves) when it comes to gaming. It´s pretty apperent that they only want koreans to win every competition regardless of the team because they have so huge E-sport egos. When in fact... They have a player pool of 12h/day grinding players that probably are as large as USA/Europe combined. In Europe very few will be full time players in any E-sport for example, and yet the few that play as much as the koreans can beat the top koreans(SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain, Haypro and formerly Jinro to just name a few swedes). Or how about the wonder boy Stephano who even declared that he I´snt gonna keep playing more than a year. I´m just happy that people maybe are starting to understand that Koreans doesn´t have(if any) genetic advantage over foreigners when it comes to be good at E-sport... Else they would have kicked the world´s asses in WoW and CS as well. cliffs: I think koreans have huge egos when it comes to E-sport and looks down on the rest of the world cause they think they are "special". I however love when the very very few professional foreign players beats them. Considering how few they are it is worth mentioning that the ones who live in Korea also kicks ass. Huk, SaSe and Naniwa have all showed how little time they need with the same training conditions as so many koreans have to be able to beat the top koreans. FLAK ON
You notice that the very players you worship are also all training in KOREA. They became godly players AFTER they went to korea and trained with them. Clearly there is something there that is special. You might not like to admit it but those foreigner players all have korean training to thank for their improvement. Do you think if Huk stayed in Canada and laddered all day that he would be as good as he is now? lol
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Missed this earlier, but why where people booing naniwa?
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On November 21 2011 12:17 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:14 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:11 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:08 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:00 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 11:55 diophan wrote:On November 21 2011 11:50 Anton K wrote:
What could have been the best tournament in the world was ruined for me by the fact of discusting behaviour from people in the audience booing Naniwa. Not only booing but laughing when he did mistakes.. And the hate he has been getting here on TL, Reddit and pms on Twitter I'd be surprised if that didnt tilt him. You could see after he beat HuK and DRG that he looked ashamed. He looked like he thought everyone hated him.
I take no credit away from Leenok. He exploited naniwas only weakness and you play this game to win not to give crowds entertainting games. Leenok is an absolutily amazing player and I am happy for him!
I guess I am really upset because I wanted Naniwa to throw the victory in all the haters face. All the people saying even though he beat Nestea TWICE in a bo3 that he is a noob, scrub that can't even get past the round 1 in Code A.
The behaviour of the MLG crowd, Reddit and TL should fucking be ashamed of themselves. You all hold Naniwa so accountable for his actions but look at your fucking self.
I can't wait for Dreamhack where I and alot of other swedes will be. Fuck I am gonna scream my lungs out for you Naniwa! Atleast he has a Code S spot now and I think we will be able to see our first foreigner Code S champion pretty soon. I hold those who get paid to play a game to high standards. I'm sorry if you don't like Nani getting boo'd, but it's hypocritical to be BM to Nestea and to the tournament and expect everyone to be completely respectful to him. Bollocks. Naniwa didn't bm Nestea, he did a little thumbs down ceremony when he beat him big whoop we've seen it done a hundred times. Booing a player on stage is fucking unacceptable imo. Maybe you didnt catch Naniwa's interview where he basically called Nestea a trash player. He goes out of his way to trash Nestea which is hilarious because the dude has won 2 gsl championships. Its also funny that a code A player calls out a two time GSL champ. Well at least Naniwa got his poor mans Code S spot. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287295Maybe you didn't catch the bit where he apologised and said that it was never his intention to insult Nestea. See I actually check I know what I'm talking about before I, you know, talk about it. So now that he apologised its all good, lol. He's bm and hes proven it multiple times at this mlg. Maybe you didnt catch him trashing MLG during a game either. Dude has zero class and nobody can blame fans for booing him. Apologised for the miscommunication. Because that's what it was; he didn't apologise for calling Professor Tea an idiot, he apologised for appearing to when he really didn't mean to. I saw him calling MLG a joke tournament. As I pointed out, Idra has done the same and worse and he still gets some of the loudest support.
This is why you shouldn't bother too much defending Naniwa from people. People have a right to feel he's BM, which he certainly has shown to be. While the Nestea incident may have been a miscommunication, people are less willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because of his history. However, as with the Idra example, if Naniwa can keep up his success, he'll be just as popular, if not more popular than Idra.
You can't, however, expect him to be as popular as players as good or better than him, who are also friendlier, more outgoing, and interact with their fans better.
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On November 21 2011 12:23 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:12 Grend wrote:On November 21 2011 12:07 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 12:05 quancer wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. Get this nationalistic, borderline racist, shit out of here. People like you make the world suck. He's definitely racist. where does he even get that part where "koreans think so highly of themselves?" I know exactly where, racists like him when the target people he does not like win, he has to find ways to antagonize them. this kid is pathetic Koreans don't have problems with foreigners doing well. In BW this did not use to be the case as far as I can remember. Good example was when Idra beat Tossgirl in the WCG. There are racist people in every culture, and Korea definitely has its share of racists (Rekrul's posts will tell you as much). However, Koreans generally have no issue with foreigners doing well - why do you think Hexatron/Estro existed in the first place? Tossgirl crying has nothing to do with racism - just unable to reconcile the fact that she just got beat by a foreigner, because it became such a rare event for foreigners to win after 2004'ish.
Good points, was interested in getting some feedback on this. My impression from BW was that it was rather rough going there as a foreigner when it came to culture so I was interested in getting some differing views on it :-)
Edit: Hmm. But what you said about Tossgirl got me thinking. Isn't that an example of Korean BW elitism?
"It`s shameful to lose to a foreigner since we are so much better than them"? Interested to hear some more thoughts on this.
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I forgot that you can't post anything sarcastic on TL without idiots thinking you were serious;
Wow you guys. Just wow.
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On November 21 2011 12:31 vorxaw wrote:
Missed this earlier, but why where people booing naniwa?
Misinterpreting an interview and the guy is not "likeable". Therefor people in Providence boo at the best result of a foreigner so far.
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On November 21 2011 12:25 jyLee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:17 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:14 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:11 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 12:08 jyLee wrote:On November 21 2011 12:00 The KY wrote:On November 21 2011 11:55 diophan wrote:On November 21 2011 11:50 Anton K wrote:
What could have been the best tournament in the world was ruined for me by the fact of discusting behaviour from people in the audience booing Naniwa. Not only booing but laughing when he did mistakes.. And the hate he has been getting here on TL, Reddit and pms on Twitter I'd be surprised if that didnt tilt him. You could see after he beat HuK and DRG that he looked ashamed. He looked like he thought everyone hated him.
I take no credit away from Leenok. He exploited naniwas only weakness and you play this game to win not to give crowds entertainting games. Leenok is an absolutily amazing player and I am happy for him!
I guess I am really upset because I wanted Naniwa to throw the victory in all the haters face. All the people saying even though he beat Nestea TWICE in a bo3 that he is a noob, scrub that can't even get past the round 1 in Code A.
The behaviour of the MLG crowd, Reddit and TL should fucking be ashamed of themselves. You all hold Naniwa so accountable for his actions but look at your fucking self.
I can't wait for Dreamhack where I and alot of other swedes will be. Fuck I am gonna scream my lungs out for you Naniwa! Atleast he has a Code S spot now and I think we will be able to see our first foreigner Code S champion pretty soon. I hold those who get paid to play a game to high standards. I'm sorry if you don't like Nani getting boo'd, but it's hypocritical to be BM to Nestea and to the tournament and expect everyone to be completely respectful to him. Bollocks. Naniwa didn't bm Nestea, he did a little thumbs down ceremony when he beat him big whoop we've seen it done a hundred times. Booing a player on stage is fucking unacceptable imo. Maybe you didnt catch Naniwa's interview where he basically called Nestea a trash player. He goes out of his way to trash Nestea which is hilarious because the dude has won 2 gsl championships. Its also funny that a code A player calls out a two time GSL champ. Well at least Naniwa got his poor mans Code S spot. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287295Maybe you didn't catch the bit where he apologised and said that it was never his intention to insult Nestea. See I actually check I know what I'm talking about before I, you know, talk about it. So now that he apologised its all good, lol. He's bm and hes proven it multiple times at this mlg. Maybe you didnt catch him trashing MLG during a game either. Dude has zero class and nobody can blame fans for booing him. Apologised for the miscommunication. Because that's what it was; he didn't apologise for calling Professor Tea an idiot, he apologised for appearing to when he really didn't mean to. I saw him calling MLG a joke tournament. As I pointed out, Idra has done the same and worse and he still gets some of the loudest support. So now your just crying about why Naniwa has no friends when Idra has so many. I just cannot fathom why anyone would be angry at the fans for booing an unlikable person. Real mature.
..nope. The Idra thing was just context; calling a tournament a joke when you are frustrated is hardly a capital fucking crime. 'joke tournament' is no worse than 'CHILL GET OUT' and we all found that funny at the time.
And a lack of maturity is precisely what I am angry at...I would be exceptionally happy if we never heard booing from an MLG crowd again. I seem to remember being treated like shit by fans for little to no reason was one of the reasons Cruncher quit the game (he also got booed at MLG, iirc).
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On November 21 2011 12:24 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:05 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. you just hate koreans that's all. Actually, the top players aren't even playing sc2 in korea. Huk and Nani has had some success sure, but they are only a few people that can compete with Koreans atm. And korea is one country, god forbid they lose. why are you only bringing up Koreans, when in the crowd I saw a bunch of non Koreans booing Naniwa? No I just like underdogs(foreigners) winning. I also hate the high and mighty mentality of the koreans. All the time you hear that Koreans are so special etc and they have a gift(which I also believe they think themselves) when it comes to gaming. It´s pretty apperent that they only want koreans to win every competition regardless of the team because they have so huge E-sport egos. When in fact... They have a player pool of 12h/day grinding players that probably are as large as USA/Europe combined. In Europe very few will be full time players in any E-sport for example, and yet the few that play as much as the koreans can beat the top koreans(SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain, Haypro and formerly Jinro to just name a few swedes). Or how about the wonder boy Stephano who even declared that he I´snt gonna keep playing more than a year. I´m just happy that people maybe are starting to understand that Koreans doesn´t have(if any) genetic advantage over foreigners when it comes to be good at E-sport... Else they would have kicked the world´s asses in WoW and CS as well. cliffs: I think koreans have huge egos when it comes to E-sport and looks down on the rest of the world cause they think they are "special". I however love when the very very few professional foreign players beats them. Considering how few they are it is worth mentioning that the ones who live in Korea also kicks ass. Huk, SaSe and Naniwa have all showed how little time they need with the same training conditions as so many koreans have to be able to beat the top koreans. FLAK ON
I am sorry but wtf are you talking about? many of the kr pro-gamers have said the foreigners and kr's skill difference isn't that huge.....and to get on korean level, you have to practise in the korean way (hardwork and dedications)
what you have said are completely BS, CS and WoW? seriously?
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On November 21 2011 12:24 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:05 jj33 wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. you just hate koreans that's all. Actually, the top players aren't even playing sc2 in korea. Huk and Nani has had some success sure, but they are only a few people that can compete with Koreans atm. And korea is one country, god forbid they lose. why are you only bringing up Koreans, when in the crowd I saw a bunch of non Koreans booing Naniwa? I´m just happy that people maybe are starting to understand that Koreans doesn´t have(if any) genetic advantage over foreigners when it comes to be good at E-sport... Else they would have kicked the world´s asses in WoW and CS as well.
this gotta be the dumbest post i've read in a while
NO ONE thinks koreans have a "genetic advantage", only someone living under a rock and with no education whatsoever could think such a thing.
the reason why koreans are better and more dominant overall has to do with their infrastructure.
they have a whole world built around esports THUS more players, more people trying to be progamers, they have coaches, team-houses, better training methods developed over the years, etc. the infrastructure generates good and better players, that's it.
no one thinks that koreans are genetically superior.
also, your post has a lot of underlying racism against them..
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On November 21 2011 12:07 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:05 quancer wrote:On November 21 2011 11:57 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Naniwa for pres!
Him and Huk shows that koreans are not special and that foreigners with the same training partners/schedules can beat any of the top koreans. Then we have the master mind Stephano who is just a natural born killer.
All this flak for not kissing everyones ass is so sad. Naniwa is just speaking his mind. I bet all the koreans there gave Leenock tips of how to beat Naniwas usual build cause all koreans think so highly of themselves(DRG wasn´t even rooting for his teammate)...
I recall Idra saying that the koreans were hypocrites(spelling) and that they were at least as BM as himself except for when the public were watching... This makes it even more disgusting when people are booing Naniwa for not even being that BM. Get this nationalistic, borderline racist, shit out of here. People like you make the world suck. He's definitely racist. where does he even get that part where "koreans think so highly of themselves?" I know exactly where, racists like him when the target people he does not like win, he has to find ways to antagonize them. this kid is pathetic Koreans don't have problems with foreigners doing well.
Oh wake up. That´s why all the korean teams collectively whine when foreign organisations pick up good korean players?
You don´t think that this elitist approach has any value to them? That the brand of "capital of E-sport" doesn´t lead to big revenues for the nation? MUCH hangs on them being seen as the E-sport nation. I guess you also can´t say that Americans also generally holds themselves very high cause they have such a big influence in the world through economic, political and military power?
I think the korean top are elitist and that they generally don´t like foreigners showing them up... Ego is necessary and it is an effective motivational force, but that means it is so much more fun when their illusion gets a crack(schadenfreud). As I said I love to root for the underdogs in this case and the consensus is that the koreans are the top dogs atm. Simple as that.
Naive people like you who only believes what they see on the very surface are never gonna get ahead in life.
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On November 21 2011 12:30 Casablancas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:23 diophan wrote:On November 21 2011 12:19 dmnum wrote:On November 21 2011 12:16 Hubris wrote:
"People still think Naniwa was calling Nestea an idiot?"
yeah, how dare people state what factually happened! He did NOT call nestea an idiot, he said pulling the drones was an idiotic move, and given how that game turned out, can you say otherwise? Seriously, stop spewing shit if you don't bother to actually read the thread. The literal translation is apparently "nestea is an idiot", but is used to mean "that thing he did is idiotic"... or so I've surmised from reading this. He said that in relation to the ingame move, watch the interview people.
Yes, what do you think I meant when I said "that thing"? It's in reference to that thing he did in the game. I don't understand why it seems like a bunch of Nani fans are going around quoting everyone that doesn't sound like they agree with them and saying they didn't watch the interview.
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On November 21 2011 12:30 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:02 Grend wrote:On November 21 2011 11:51 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:45 Grend wrote:On November 21 2011 11:44 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:On November 21 2011 11:41 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:39 HowardRoark wrote:On November 21 2011 11:34 Femari wrote:On November 21 2011 11:34 StarStruck wrote:
[quote]
Heat of the moment man you see shit like that all the time with everyone else. Naniwa is no different. It only makes him human, so I wouldn't keep picking at that bone. you see people sneaking peeks at replays to figure out what build the opponent is using? since when? This is really an hot potato if what StarStruck posted is true. This sneakypeaky at high level WoL, is it actually something common? Seems like some huge news. Are you a whistle blower, or maybe you were referring to something else? Multiple people confirmed that Naniwa pulled up the replay of a game that was restarted (g3 v Nestea on Shak) due to it starting when on a commercial break. The replay that showed him what? The post-game screen shows build-orders anyway. Yeah so? The point is that he was the cause of restarting the game and that people calling Leenock punishing Naniwa's greed "dishonourable" is ridiculous considering what Naniwa did to Nestea. What did he do? Please elaborate on your accusations. During the break between game 2 and 3 of the series between Nestea and Naniwa, Naniwa chose Shak and set up the game himself. Something happened (miscommunication most likely) and they went to a commercial break. Naniwa had started the game though and they both played around 1:37 of game time so they had to stop it cause it wasn't being casted. After that they went to the restroom during the break and Naniwa got back first and started watching the replay. An official apparently tried to stop him but it was too late and he saw Nestea's main and the build. Then they started the new game and since Nestea was cross spawn in the replay Naniwa assumed it was cross only. He got upset. Started typing on screen which MLG could do nothing about. They then let the coach in apparently to relay messages from the admin (idk why) and then the game started again. Basically he did nothing against the rules, but he sure as hell did nothing honorable. But this was in the thread yesterday. Multiple people who were there have been saying this. About watching the replay thing: As MLG has stated time and time again it is actually not breaking any rules. In addition he could gain mostly any information he needed from watching the end game score screen. MLG also concluded that him watching the replay did not affect the result and even did a press statement about it. From MLG: Show nested quote +"After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise.
Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC" Just because you could see the build order doesn't meant players should, and just because you can see it, doesn't meant you should go even further by checking replay. The match shouldn't even restarted in the first place, that means players wouldn't able to access these info under normal circumstance. This is essentially cheating meta game wise. Yes he didn't broke any rules, but since MLG is planning to fix it, it means it's bad enough that they going to stop it. Just because the current rules didn't cover it, doesn't meant his action is justified, he is just isn't held accountable. That is why many people spoke out. However this thing is already settled, and MLG learnt heaps from this.
LOL!!!!!
So beacuse he could see what the buildorder would say anyways during the rehost, a rehost forced by MLG mixup with casters starting the game before Nestea or the admins was ready, Naniwa did something wrong.
You take the price. Keep up with the meta drama before posting.
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EPT
