FXOpen e-Sports celebrates 6 months in the StarCraft II scene with an even bigger version of our FXOpen Invitational Series featuring top players worldwide and a $5000 prizepool. While the main event on the 2nd of July will feature 16 players we will get to see 32 players from each of the NA, EU and KR servers battle it out for a place in region-specific qualifiers. In these qualifiers 32 of the best players from that region will play in a single elimination tournament with live coverage. The top four players from each of the three qualifiers will join 4 direct invites to compete for the grand prize in a 16-player double elimination tournament.
Four qualifiers for each region will join four invites, consisting of last FXO IS champion MarineKingPrime as well as top players from regions with no qualifiers such as China and Taiwan (SEA is included in the NA qualifier). Individual qualifier threads will be linked through the images below as they appear.
The following players qualify for the Top 16 Finals!
GuMihofOu SlayerSGanZi oGsTheStC IMYonghwa
Grand Final Saturday 2nd July Saturday, Jul 02 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Games from the Qualifiers and Finals will be cast Live!
FXOpen is a forex trading company seeking to get more involved in the game they are passionate about - StarCraft 2. FXOpen currently sponsors MMA, drift car series and various other sporting events in addition to running monthly StarCraft 2 events and owning a professional StarCraft 2 team.
whoa, big format change, diggin it. excellent way for up and comers to stand out
ok reread it and i'm not quite sure i understand - 32 are invited to each of the 3 qualifiers, then 4 advance from each to face each other and 4 overall invites? just want to make sure i have it right
This is gonna be sweet. These FXOpen tournaments are terribly underrated considering the caliber of players you guys usually get to participate. Hopefully this one will be just as good.
On June 08 2011 14:04 Antoine wrote: whoa, big format change, diggin it. excellent way for up and comers to stand out
ok reread it and i'm not quite sure i understand - 32 are invited to each of the 3 qualifiers, then 4 advance from each to face each other and 4 overall invites? just want to make sure i have it right
On June 08 2011 14:04 Antoine wrote: whoa, big format change, diggin it. excellent way for up and comers to stand out
ok reread it and i'm not quite sure i understand - 32 are invited to each of the 3 qualifiers, then 4 advance from each to face each other and 4 overall invites? just want to make sure i have it right
That's right, open qualis are a bit messy for our live broadcasting and it is the invitational series. We will look for somewhere to include open entry at some point but we'll have to wait and see - in the meantime I think we're doing OK at giving a few unknowns a bit of a run especially those from CN and SEA servers.
Great as usual, FXO. It would also be cool if in the future the tournament can be extended to the CN server. Everyone's been talking about the growing competitiveness of the CN server and it would be cool if more of us get to see how their players match up.
On June 08 2011 17:37 JYN wrote: Great as usual, FXO. It would also be cool if in the future the tournament can be extended to the CN server. Everyone's been talking about the growing competitiveness of the CN server and it would be cool if more of us get to see how their players match up.
On June 08 2011 21:52 nYaLa wrote: I see Unstable going to cast with Wolf, is Unstable also going to ''apply'' for a job as caster at Gomtv :D? would be really cool ^.^.
I am sure it's an option seeing Wolf is going solo and Unstable will be in Korea to help manage FXO in GSTL. Haven't heard anything official yet though!
Ok so the qualifier is on my calendar when is the thread gonna go up, a day or 2 before ? i just dont want to miss it awesome that fxo is hosting more tours ^_ ^
I'm assuming it'll be MKP, Sen, XiaOt, and either Lovecd or Lovett for the invites? Or maybe Xigua? Who's the strongest player in the TESL right now? Softball?
FXO tournaments are always amazing and the talent pool is always top-notch. It's really a shame that their tournaments haven't been getting much attention as of late. Hopefully this time it'll be better, good luck!
Btw, I think you linked to the incorrect Facebook page.
It was unfortunate that while the EU/NA qualifiers were on the Liquid boys were in Korea, and while the KR qualifier was on they were in Europe, but there is always next time to see them compete in an FXO event
This tournament is STACKED! it's a shame we can't get guys like MVP, Nestea, MC, Naniwa, HuK, but I'm sure there will be a next tournament with even more spots!
ooh xaiOt...great invite! Chinese players need to start showing up more in foreign tournaments, and I hear a Chinese team is having a stint in Korea sometime soon.
FXO does not disappoint! I don't know if any other organizations reach out to the various communities like FXO does. I think xiaOt is the perfect final invite.
On June 27 2011 15:04 leo23 wrote: This tournament is STACKED! it's a shame we can't get guys like MVP, Nestea, MC, Naniwa, HuK, but I'm sure there will be a next tournament with even more spots!
Naniwa refused an invite to the EU qualifier, and HuK was at Dreamhack/Homestory Cup for the NA and Korean qualifiers respectively.
Ooh the Euro qualifier is really exciting... The American one is surprising tho, who is gatored?
I would LOVE to see MKP vs Idra in the finals. I'm not a big Idra fan, but I'd be happy if either of those players won and actually, either of them getting second would be hilarious.
Edit:
Where can I find the NA qualifier brackets? Wouldn't mind checking them out.
On June 28 2011 11:49 imkp wrote: MarineKing vs XiaoT finals with MarineKing getting his revenge please
It'll depend on what server they have to play in. If it's KR then yeah, I also agree with your prediction, if not, I think we could have a euro finalist and who knows, perhaps even IdrA.
(Vote): MarineKing vs Gatored (Vote): DDE vs Nerchio (Vote): SEn vs DeMusliM (Vote): SaSe vs TheStC (Vote): xiaOt vs MajOr (Vote): GuMiho vs HasuObs (Vote): IdrA vs Yonghwa (Vote): ViBE vs GanZi
Badass lineup! I seriously love it. It doesn't look like the players you would expect to all be competing together in a relatively small invite, but they are all great players. Can't wait to see the results and possibly watch if I get the chance.
Interested in seeing xiaot vs major. We don't see a whole lot of the Chinese players and all history points to them becoming a power in SC2. Major is also someone who's reaching a really impressive level. Plenty of other good names, but people we already see quite a bit of, so I hope this game is picked up.
Unfortunately there has been a change to the invite list as IdrA will have casting obligations for his own team. IdrA had 'pre accepted' an invite before he had to go away to DreamHack as he couldn't make the qualifier, but that was on an old date we planned to host the event. While he was away and unavailable the date changed and he can't make it.
Instead, recent G-League winner XiGua, who scored $23,000 taking out LoveTT in the finals of the huge Chinese event! Keeping with the theme of inviting players based on qualifier availability, we believe XiGua is a worthy invite if not in terms of notoriety, then in terms of prowess as a top Zerg player. You should see more of him in the future!
We are also waiting on the availability of HasuObs, who will be at a LAN in France. While he may be able to play the event from France it is no certainty and backup qualifier Stephano will be at the same event. In the case of HasuObs not playing we will most likely ask DIMAGA and Tarson to play off for a place depending on their own availability.
Argh pretty harsh first round for Demulsim, going up against the monster that is Sen, while he's struggling with TvZ atm. Although I know Idra was helping him with it.
That said if he loses, he'll be up against Sase or TheSTC and Demu's TvT and TvP is pretty hot right now.
On June 30 2011 22:38 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, sixjax dominating the Americna qualifier. What happened with all the other teams? :o (EG, Root, FnaticMSI, coL)
most misssed the qualifiers by being in europe for dreamhack most likely and also, root doesn't exist anymore
You're gonna be able to watch the Koreans friggin dominate, especially Yonghwa and Gumiho, those 2 are sick skilled, wouldn't be surprised if they are the 2 finalists.
I am very interested how good the chinese players are. For a time Loner was hyped as the best chinese player bar none but he only showed a couple of incredibly great games and then became pretty bad afterwards.
But with the recent chinese tournament with top players around the world and 3 of the top 4 being chinese, that made me really curious.
Wow that bracket is pretty nice, I'm looking forward to all EU vs KR games Sad that I can't watch live but I'll sure watch the VODs, thx FXO for being so awesome.
On July 01 2011 00:51 zYwi3c wrote: Nerchio will meet MKP in RO2. Poor Zerg
Its an online tournament and MKP have not played great recently, so I think nerchio can win.
It's a stretch to say mkp hasn't done well recently considering how few games people play in gsl and how he just came off top 4 in super tourney. MKP has lost 3 games total in the last week in gsl and gstl. Nericho lost 2 games today to ogs hero in nasl qualifers. Therefore in the span of a week, mkp has lost 3 games and nericho has lost 2 games so I guess nericho hasn't done that well recently either.
I know people always look at gsl results cause that's all there is for most koreans, but most other tournies like mlg and dreamhack have bo3 in group stages. The amount of games someone could lose in group stages of either mlg or dreamhack could equal the same amount of games lost over like 4 or 5 gsls for someone.
There's nothing that can be done about that since koreans only have gsl for an entire month but I always found it strange how people are so quick to say someone is in a slump cause they lost a few of bo3 like mvp did when he fell down to code a.
MVP was never in a true slump as he still did well in gstl after he fell to code a and then he proceeded to make the code a finals and back into code s. A true slump is sustained bad performance over a number of games, not when someone loses a few bo3s.
On July 01 2011 00:51 zYwi3c wrote: Nerchio will meet MKP in RO2. Poor Zerg
Its an online tournament and MKP have not played great recently, so I think nerchio can win.
MKP wins when he wants to win. When he loses it's just because he thinks he's on ladder and do silly things :D If he takes this seriously, no one will stand a chance !
And idra forfeit a tourney to cast...wanted to comment but no, no comment.
On July 01 2011 00:51 zYwi3c wrote: Nerchio will meet MKP in RO2. Poor Zerg
Its an online tournament and MKP have not played great recently, so I think nerchio can win.
MKP wins when he wants to win. When he loses it's just because he thinks he's on ladder and do silly things :D If he takes this seriously, no one will stand a chance !
And idra forfeit a tourney to cast...wanted to comment but no, no comment.
You realize MKP holds the highest win rate on the Korean ladder that spans over 3 accounts? If he has so much success on ladder by fooling around, I'm surprised he loses at all :O
We will need 5-6 NA accounts for the Asian players to play on the server in this tournament. We have some they can use but if anyone has a spare account they could lend just for the event that no one else is using PM me!
On June 09 2011 11:38 Qaatar wrote: I'm assuming it'll be MKP, Sen, XiaOt, and either Lovecd or Lovett for the invites? Or maybe Xigua? Who's the strongest player in the TESL right now? Softball?
Hahaha.
XiGua is the best Zerg in China. Looking forward to him crushing some nerds.
On June 30 2011 23:01 JustPassingBy wrote: I am very interested how good the chinese players are. For a time Loner was hyped as the best chinese player bar none but he only showed a couple of incredibly great games and then became pretty bad afterwards.
But with the recent chinese tournament with top players around the world and 3 of the top 4 being chinese, that made me really curious.
None of them are on the level of the tip-top Koreans according to members from the Prime Team and a few Chinese casters/netizens, but the Chinese Protoss are definitely borderline Code S level. Same skill level as the likes of Naniwa and Huk, basically.
Amazing lineup, probably europes 2 most talented players in nerchio and sase. One of the strongest but most underrated koreans in YongHwa, and ofcourse the beastly chinese players. The americans are shit out of luck with these brackets, xiaot is gonna wreck that clown
The even is exactly 12 hours from now. Gogo MKP <3 I hope he'll take this seriously, a little fed up to wait anxiously his games only to see him use the famous 20 minutes 2 bases marines only builds against colossus and banelings.
On July 02 2011 19:40 sjperera wrote: isn't this event over? Any thread on it?
No and this is the thread.
I wonder if this is confusing people:
Saturday 2nd July 2011-07-03 08:00 KST
reading 2nd and 08 KST, but missing that it's 08 KST on the third.
Anyway, can't wait. Not sure how much I'll be able to watch given my timezone but I definitely plan on catching some!
Yeah that caters to the majority American-based audience and the favouable NA timezone for the event. It's the 3rd for a lot of the players and any EU/Asia/Oceania based fans
On July 01 2011 00:51 zYwi3c wrote: Nerchio will meet MKP in RO2. Poor Zerg
Its an online tournament and MKP have not played great recently, so I think nerchio can win.
MKP wins when he wants to win. When he loses it's just because he thinks he's on ladder and do silly things :D If he takes this seriously, no one will stand a chance !
And idra forfeit a tourney to cast...wanted to comment but no, no comment.
I'm sorry, but what comment would there be to make? As deL said in his post, IdrA accepted his invitation based on the old date, after that he made a commitment to cast the EGMCS finals and the date for this was changed, meaing he is no longer available to play in this.
Other than "that sucks for both IdrA and his fans", I don't think there is any comment to make.
Really looking forward to watching this. Especially how XiGua looks against international competition.
On July 02 2011 20:05 MrCon wrote: The even is exactly 12 hours from now. Gogo MKP <3 I hope he'll take this seriously, a little fed up to wait anxiously his games only to see him use the famous 20 minutes 2 bases marines only builds against colossus and banelings.
Huge day for MKP today; participating in Champions Trophy, NASL quals, TLOpen, and this.
On July 02 2011 22:48 deL wrote: HasuObs unfortunately couldn't make it and has had to forfeit his position in the tournament, which will be taken up by Tt.Duckload.White-Ra
omg, it's like a revolving door of baller Protosses.
Really looking forward to tonight, I'm secretly hoping for a huge clash between MarineKing and theStC!
On July 02 2011 22:48 deL wrote: HasuObs unfortunately couldn't make it and has had to forfeit his position in the tournament, which will be taken up by Tt.Duckload.White-Ra
On July 02 2011 22:48 deL wrote: HasuObs unfortunately couldn't make it and has had to forfeit his position in the tournament, which will be taken up by Tt.Duckload.White-Ra
Agreed. Seeing this after watching these koreans (especially polt who just won $100k in GSL Super) in TLOpen playing many games in a row at ungodly hours with a $100 prize makes it seem like some of the foreign player's priorities (or their team's priorities) are really screwed up.
On July 03 2011 08:23 deL wrote: OK the mics in the GOM house are all broken so the English stream will just be providing an FPView of the players without commentary.
All of them are broken? Have you tried asking Gisado? Maybe he can help you out.
On July 03 2011 08:23 deL wrote: OK the mics in the GOM house are all broken so the English stream will just be providing an FPView of the players without commentary.
Sorry if this seems lazy but its getting really late in germany and i just wanna know if all games will be played now (in the next hours) or can i enjoy some games afterwards if i go to sleep now?
On July 03 2011 08:33 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: Sorry if this seems lazy but its getting really late in germany and i just wanna know if all games will be played now (in the next hours) or can i enjoy some games afterwards if i go to sleep now?
On July 03 2011 08:35 KinQuh wrote: Will there be Vods/Replays after the event ?
yes, there are always replays in FXO's event iirc.
And idra declined his spot to be able to cast the now finished EGMC.
not finished yet fnatic vs complexity now
oops sorry, that was not voluntary misinformation >< Thought the rest was tomorrow.
On July 03 2011 08:37 Asha` wrote: What happened with G2 of Vibe/Ganzi, the stream died for me and is now back showing "error, unable to display score screen"?
wasn't played (or wasn't showed), nothing happened since the end of g1.
On July 03 2011 08:37 Asha` wrote: What happened with G2 of Vibe/Ganzi, the stream died for me and is now back showing "error, unable to display score screen"?
wasn't played (or wasn't showed), nothing happened since the end of g1.
nah it definitely started on shakuras, last i saw ganzi had a lone hellion behind the mineral line in vibe's nat. Then the stream died for me and it came back to the unable to display scorescreen image it's showing now ><
---
Xigua vs Younghwa still going in what I believe to be game 2, pretty standard though lots of phoenix out of 2gate stargate from Younghwa
On July 03 2011 08:48 Nimic wrote: Why do some of the bracket results say 1-0 instead of 2-0? Is it merely a reporting bug, or does it mean something like a walk-over?
Some people didn't show up. We're doing our best to replace them if possible.
On July 03 2011 08:48 Nimic wrote: Why do some of the bracket results say 1-0 instead of 2-0? Is it merely a reporting bug, or does it mean something like a walk-over?
On July 03 2011 08:48 Nimic wrote: Why do some of the bracket results say 1-0 instead of 2-0? Is it merely a reporting bug, or does it mean something like a walk-over?
Some people didn't show up. We're doing our best to replace them if possible.
Hmm, alright. So Sjow got a walkover against TheStC? But then why does the lower bracket have TheStC getting the win (but 0-0) over MorroW? Another walkover, and simply a case of one of them had to get it?
On July 03 2011 08:48 Nimic wrote: Why do some of the bracket results say 1-0 instead of 2-0? Is it merely a reporting bug, or does it mean something like a walk-over?
Some people didn't show up. We're doing our best to replace them if possible.
Hmm, alright. So Sjow got a walkover against TheStC? But then why does the lower bracket have TheStC getting the win (but 0-0) over MorroW? Another walkover, and simply a case of one of them had to get it?
Stc is now present, he'll play from lower bracket.
Man, MKP shouldn't have kept throwing away units after taking that early lead. Amazing hold of Nerchio's counterattack though, and looks like MKP up 1-0.
Game 2 = fairly tense as Gatored pressures MKP's front...before MKP kills 40 probes with cloaked banshees and killss his nat with a 1 1 1 all in. Nerchio 2-0 dde
SjoWis granted a walkover after TheStC is unable to make it online in time. TheStC will be here for lower bracket games though.
SaSe is given a walkover victory over late replacement MorroW. I believe MorroW wasn't actually asked to be a replacement till after the original walkover was announced and this is a bracket formality? xiaOt 2-1 Major
MKP Gatored g2 was Gatored gambling and stupidly not making a robo against a reactored rax at the front and only marines LOL, MKP just had to hold until cloak was out and was able to mass-repair his only ground unit a tank against ~6 stalkers. Cloak banshees came in => gg
sometimes I really ask myself what these progamers are thinking . . .
On July 03 2011 09:12 Arc1 wrote: He kinda overdroned it. But still well played Foxer.
yeah you need to have the most solid early-game in the world to not fall behind against MKP. That guy is just way too friggin solid.
You could see how nervous Nerchio was, lost a lot of drones to kill the bunker and then suicided a bunch of lings into marine/scv, after that it was really hard because he was behind in workers, double roach warren etc.
On July 03 2011 09:12 Arc1 wrote: He kinda overdroned it. But still well played Foxer.
Lol he overdroned... If you recognized it: MKP did so much pressure (with little drone damage most of the time), that nerchio couldn't even drone up... He was behind in harvesters the whole game, 10-20 since MKP had his expo up...
On July 03 2011 09:12 Arc1 wrote: He kinda overdroned it. But still well played Foxer.
yeah you need to have the most solid early-game in the world to not fall behind against MKP. That guy is just way too friggin solid.
You could see how nervous Nerchio was, lost a lot of drones to kill the bunker and then suicided a bunch of lings into marine/scv, after that it was really hard because he was behind in workers, double roach warren etc.
Lets hope Nerchio will make out of losers bracket.
Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
On July 03 2011 09:16 zestzorb wrote: I wish Khaldor could have casted in English, but that would be unfair to the German audience.
How many Germans don't understand English? Come on. (half joking)
Uhm I think there are some, but casting english is very easy to understand. Even if you nearly don't understand english you can understand the cast if you're familiar with casted starcraft. :>
On July 03 2011 09:19 Canucklehead wrote: Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
he went for a "hair cut" at 3pm yesterday, hasnt been seen since.
Watching Nerchio is like watching Idra 3 months ago. Great mechanics, great late game, just so, so greedy in the early game, so he loses so many games to early pressure and/or all in's. Not that MKP couldn't beat him in late game too.
On July 03 2011 09:19 Canucklehead wrote: Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
he went for a "hair cut" at 3pm yesterday, hasnt been seen since.
On July 03 2011 09:19 Canucklehead wrote: Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
he went for a "hair cut" at 3pm yesterday, hasnt been seen since.
Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
yeah its insane, but with perfect micro (pulling back individual drones as they get hurt) you can fend it off no prob, neither you nor morrow seem to have a lot of practice against terrans that really know how to do it.
On July 03 2011 09:19 Canucklehead wrote: Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
he went for a "hair cut" at 3pm yesterday, hasnt been seen since.
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
But in Morrow's case. He was way to greedy tbh. 20marines standing in front of his base and he makes drones. I more feel like that foreigners lose because of lack of scouting because they sometimes rely on "western" metagame and aren't used to Korean timings.
On July 03 2011 09:19 Canucklehead wrote: Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
he went for a "hair cut" at 3pm yesterday, hasnt been seen since.
On July 03 2011 09:19 Canucklehead wrote: Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
he went for a "hair cut" at 3pm yesterday, hasnt been seen since.
Is that what you crazy kids call it these days?
depends if she's got braces...
hadn't noticed WhiteRa 2-0'd Major in the lb, kind of sad to see Major out so soon tbh
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
But in Morrow's case. He was way to greedy tbh. 20marines standing in front of his base and he makes drones. I more feel like that foreigners lose because of lack of scouting because they sometimes rely on "western" metagame and aren't used to Korean timings.
This is definitely true in Europe. In general EU has a lot of it's own unique things which exist either only in EU meta game or are far more common.
Examples include going full Mech in TvT or TvZ Mass Brood/Infestor slow pushing as Zerg Expanding in PvP. Ling/Bane/Infestor in ZvP
There's probably other quirks but these are the most obvious and a lot work great if you're both playing EU style, but it often gets completely shut down by Korean style which is generally just attacking all game. EU pro's tend to be a lot more passive than Koreans.
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
that`s why korean zergs avoid hatch first...
greedy morrow cancelled his second spine that was first major mistake then failed bust.
against mkp you have to consider select drone and press BB as fast as possible
On July 03 2011 09:37 PigglyWinks wrote: It's amazing how many times Koreans drop a game but end up winning 2-1. At MLG, at Dreamhack, here.
I think it shows that many top foreigners are quite capable of taking games off top Koreans, they just have a tough time keeping that consistency in taking an entire series.
On July 03 2011 09:36 Vadrigar wrote: Sjow vs MKP lol. 100 vs 400 APM? Who will win?
MarineKing doesn't have anywhere near 400 apm, more like 150-200. :/ I don't get why people continue to harp on Sjow's apm like no one's noticed before.
On July 03 2011 09:37 PigglyWinks wrote: It's amazing how many times Koreans drop a game but end up winning 2-1. At MLG, at Dreamhack, here.
I think it shows that many top foreigners are quite capable of taking games off top Koreans, they just have a tough time keeping that consistency in taking an entire series.
I think they get scared that they might actually beat a Korean and tilt...
On July 03 2011 09:37 PigglyWinks wrote: It's amazing how many times Koreans drop a game but end up winning 2-1. At MLG, at Dreamhack, here.
I think it shows that many top foreigners are quite capable of taking games off top Koreans, they just have a tough time keeping that consistency in taking an entire series.
It's often the first game they lose, generally because the foreigner knows the Korean's style but he doesn't know the foreigners. So they play the first game the foreigner catches him off guard and then the Korean thinks, "Oh, he plays that style, okay", and then he wins the next two games no problem.
On July 03 2011 09:19 Canucklehead wrote: Lol wait, how does wolf no show when he lives in the gom house with unstable?! Plus it's like 9am in the morning for them. He find some lady luck clubbing last night or something?
he went for a "hair cut" at 3pm yesterday, hasnt been seen since.
Is that what you crazy kids call it these days?
depends if she's got braces...
hadn't noticed WhiteRa 2-0'd Major in the lb, kind of sad to see Major out so soon tbh
If she has braces it's taking a train ride?
The massage thing is actually more north american ... something to do with prostitution being illegal makes massage parlors popular ... they all seem to have very dark thick drapes and rather concealed entrances too.
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
But in Morrow's case. He was way to greedy tbh. 20marines standing in front of his base and he makes drones. I more feel like that foreigners lose because of lack of scouting because they sometimes rely on "western" metagame and aren't used to Korean timings.
This is definitely true in Europe. In general EU has a lot of it's own unique things which exist either only in EU meta game or are far more common.
Examples include going full Mech in TvT or TvZ Mass Brood/Infestor slow pushing as Zerg Expanding in PvP. Ling/Bane/Infestor in ZvP
There's probably other quirks but these are the most obvious and a lot work great if you're both playing EU style, but it often gets completely shut down by Korean style which is generally just attacking all game. EU pro's tend to be a lot more passive than Koreans.
Koreans are ahead in metagame and mechanics by far far far. Koreans know how to mech much better than Europeans do, it was in fact gumiho who pioneered this style way way before we could hear TLO talk about his metal strategy.
Brood/Infestor isn't really seen in korean TvZ because Korean Terrans are WAY too aggressive to ever let Zerg get that 5k gas ball up. You'll see DRG, the by far world's best ZvTer stay in muta/ling/bane mid-game for-seemingly-ever, because that's where Zerg units are their strongest. If you invest that much into a Brood/Infestor ball, you both die to timing pushes and drops
Expanding in PvP - meh. More often than not I see the player that pressed B-N lose in PvP
Line/Bane/Infestor is definitely Korean as well, it's been out for a few months on EU, but much much longer on KR. even stuff like muta/ling/spine was invented in KR as confirmed by David Kim
KR > EU in every which way, they just have the huge BW + progaming advantage. Every build you see the Europeans do, the Koreans have either done in the past and stopped or are doing with much higher efficiency, always having more stuff at every point in time.
Just watch MC/Bomber/DRG play a standard games, those guys just have so much refinement in their play, they could get to GM just attack-moving using the mini-map.
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
But in Morrow's case. He was way to greedy tbh. 20marines standing in front of his base and he makes drones. I more feel like that foreigners lose because of lack of scouting because they sometimes rely on "western" metagame and aren't used to Korean timings.
This is definitely true in Europe. In general EU has a lot of it's own unique things which exist either only in EU meta game or are far more common.
Examples include going full Mech in TvT or TvZ Mass Brood/Infestor slow pushing as Zerg Expanding in PvP. Ling/Bane/Infestor in ZvP
There's probably other quirks but these are the most obvious and a lot work great if you're both playing EU style, but it often gets completely shut down by Korean style which is generally just attacking all game. EU pro's tend to be a lot more passive than Koreans.
1. Mech in korea is far more evolved than it is in EU/NA I think. There are some players like Goody which have very defined mech builds but not quiet the multitasking/apm to exeute it right. In TvZ some mech build out of korea were very stront, but maybe it was because it catched the oponent offguard. TvT mech seems to catch up as a standard strat in TvT.
2. You're right. It is an ugly zerg style that doesn't work if the zerg doesn't have an huge eco lead while going into late game, so it usually shouldn't work.
3. Some time in korea there are expansions. :p
4. Ah I don't know about that. I remember to see that style rarely but sometimes it was succesful.
On July 03 2011 09:37 PigglyWinks wrote: It's amazing how many times Koreans drop a game but end up winning 2-1. At MLG, at Dreamhack, here.
I think it shows that many top foreigners are quite capable of taking games off top Koreans, they just have a tough time keeping that consistency in taking an entire series.
It's often the first game they lose, generally because the foreigner knows the Korean's style but he doesn't know the foreigners. So they play the first game the foreigner catches him off guard and then the Korean thinks, "Oh, he plays that style, okay", and then he wins the next two games no problem.
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
But in Morrow's case. He was way to greedy tbh. 20marines standing in front of his base and he makes drones. I more feel like that foreigners lose because of lack of scouting because they sometimes rely on "western" metagame and aren't used to Korean timings.
This is definitely true in Europe. In general EU has a lot of it's own unique things which exist either only in EU meta game or are far more common.
Examples include going full Mech in TvT or TvZ Mass Brood/Infestor slow pushing as Zerg Expanding in PvP. Ling/Bane/Infestor in ZvP
There's probably other quirks but these are the most obvious and a lot work great if you're both playing EU style, but it often gets completely shut down by Korean style which is generally just attacking all game. EU pro's tend to be a lot more passive than Koreans.
1. Mech in korea is far more evolved than it is in EU/NA I think. There are some players like Goody which have very defined mech builds but not quiet the multitasking/apm to exeute it right. In TvZ some mech build out of korea were very stront, but maybe it was because it catched the oponent offguard. TvT mech seems to catch up as a standard strat in TvT.
2. You're right. It is an ugly zerg style that doesn't work if the zerg doesn't have an huge eco lead while going into late game, so it usually shouldn't work.
3. Some time in korea there are expansions. :p
4. Ah I don't know about that. I remember to see that style rarely but sometimes it was succesful.
On July 03 2011 09:37 PigglyWinks wrote: It's amazing how many times Koreans drop a game but end up winning 2-1. At MLG, at Dreamhack, here.
I think it shows that many top foreigners are quite capable of taking games off top Koreans, they just have a tough time keeping that consistency in taking an entire series.
It's often the first game they lose, generally because the foreigner knows the Korean's style but he doesn't know the foreigners. So they play the first game the foreigner catches him off guard and then the Korean thinks, "Oh, he plays that style, okay", and then he wins the next two games no problem.
That might be the case.
Some Korean's definitely do use all those strats but you don't get them anywhere near as much. Imagine trying infestor/brood versus MMA. You would have no hatcheries left if he saw you even think about trying that crap.
Classic example of the second point was MC vs Naugrim at Dreamhack. First game Naugrim went mass infestor neuro parasite with ling/bane support and totally caught MC out. MC absolutely destroyed him game 2 and 3 with this weird chargelot/archon/high templar build off two/three bases.
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
that`s why korean zergs avoid hatch first...
greedy morrow cancelled his second spine that was first major mistake then failed bust.
against mkp you have to consider select drone and press BB as fast as possible
They only really avoid hatch first against MKP and sC
lol Khaldor's neighbours are calling the police right now! White-Ra coming back from 60 supply deficit beating Nerchio. Nerchio officially switching race! OK Polish Idra.
Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers. He didn't make many mistakes that I could see.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
I can understand Nerchio. I'm not whinning about it but losing a game like that, because you can't do anything to be cost efficient vs blink is frustrating as hell.
On July 03 2011 10:01 rauk wrote: somehow khaldor manages to be a zillion times more entertaining in german than 99% of english casters for me and i can't even understand a single word
On July 03 2011 10:04 Nerchio wrote: Just kidding. I hope people realise zerg is still unplayable ^^ whole map vs 2 base protoss and you still can't kill blink stalkers.
Awwww, would've loved seeing you as T You played well man, better luck next time ^^
On July 03 2011 09:26 Nerchio wrote: Looking at Morrow's game now, the only words come to my mind: 2rax korean is too strong for foreigners. I don't see many ways you can stop it without being behind.
But in Morrow's case. He was way to greedy tbh. 20marines standing in front of his base and he makes drones. I more feel like that foreigners lose because of lack of scouting because they sometimes rely on "western" metagame and aren't used to Korean timings.
This is definitely true in Europe. In general EU has a lot of it's own unique things which exist either only in EU meta game or are far more common.
Examples include going full Mech in TvT or TvZ Mass Brood/Infestor slow pushing as Zerg Expanding in PvP. Ling/Bane/Infestor in ZvP
There's probably other quirks but these are the most obvious and a lot work great if you're both playing EU style, but it often gets completely shut down by Korean style which is generally just attacking all game. EU pro's tend to be a lot more passive than Koreans.
1. Mech in korea is far more evolved than it is in EU/NA I think. There are some players like Goody which have very defined mech builds but not quiet the multitasking/apm to exeute it right. In TvZ some mech build out of korea were very stront, but maybe it was because it catched the oponent offguard. TvT mech seems to catch up as a standard strat in TvT.
2. You're right. It is an ugly zerg style that doesn't work if the zerg doesn't have an huge eco lead while going into late game, so it usually shouldn't work.
3. Some time in korea there are expansions. :p
4. Ah I don't know about that. I remember to see that style rarely but sometimes it was succesful.
On July 03 2011 09:41 lunchforthesky wrote:
On July 03 2011 09:39 PartyBiscuit wrote:
On July 03 2011 09:37 PigglyWinks wrote: It's amazing how many times Koreans drop a game but end up winning 2-1. At MLG, at Dreamhack, here.
I think it shows that many top foreigners are quite capable of taking games off top Koreans, they just have a tough time keeping that consistency in taking an entire series.
It's often the first game they lose, generally because the foreigner knows the Korean's style but he doesn't know the foreigners. So they play the first game the foreigner catches him off guard and then the Korean thinks, "Oh, he plays that style, okay", and then he wins the next two games no problem.
That might be the case.
Some Korean's definitely do use all those strats but you don't get them anywhere near as much. Imagine trying infestor/brood versus MMA. You would have no hatcheries left if he saw you even think about trying that crap.
You point out the point where I agreed with you. :p I think you can be more sure about the viability of a style if you see koreans use them. Not always of course.
Nerchio will switch his race, discuss!
Sad tourney for zerg players with IdrA and Sen declined though. Could be much more interesting.
On July 03 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote: Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
you get an evo at 37 supply with +2 melee ASAP. make about 10 roaches and then only lings off 2 gas and 3 hatch. +2 lings rape stalkers with or without blink.
you need good injects, but thats about it, if you can scout the council, you're in good shape as long as you don't make roaches, they just suck, lots of HP and decent DPS but can't diminish the blink stalker ball for shit
On July 03 2011 10:04 Nerchio wrote: Just kidding. I hope people realise zerg is still unplayable ^^ whole map vs 2 base protoss and you still can't kill blink stalkers.
It's understandable how zergs can be frustrated when they mass roaches. Pretty hard to play when to play with such a non optimal unit mix.
On July 03 2011 10:04 Nerchio wrote: Just kidding. I hope people realise zerg is still unplayable ^^ whole map vs 2 base protoss and you still can't kill blink stalkers.
ggs man, you need more practice and not against crappy mid-masters EU players, but pro-gamers that actually focus on figuring out the game
On July 03 2011 10:04 Nerchio wrote: Just kidding. I hope people realise zerg is still unplayable ^^ whole map vs 2 base protoss and you still can't kill blink stalkers.
You fight fire with fire... in this case you fight special taktiks with even more special taktiks... or as White-Ra would put it, upgraded special taktiks!
On July 03 2011 10:14 lunchforthesky wrote: I want to see someone try this blink stalkers stuff versus Nestea or Losira. I'm Zergs will then get answers on how to handle it.
And if they can't figure out an answer, there will be tons of QQing!
On July 03 2011 10:14 lunchforthesky wrote: I want to see someone try this blink stalkers stuff versus Nestea or Losira. I'm Zergs will then get answers on how to handle it.
they already have, it's called a shitton of lings that you use to catch the blink stalkers. dunno why you would make lots of roaches against blink stalkers. blink stalkers are almost designed to counter them
On July 03 2011 10:14 lunchforthesky wrote: I want to see someone try this blink stalkers stuff versus Nestea or Losira. I'm Zergs will then get answers on how to handle it.
And if they can't figure out an answer, there will be tons of QQing!
pretty sure ChickenLips explained what they do in a post above
On July 03 2011 10:14 lunchforthesky wrote: I want to see someone try this blink stalkers stuff versus Nestea or Losira. I'm Zergs will then get answers on how to handle it.
they already have, it's called a shitton of lings that you use to catch the blink stalkers. dunno why you would make lots of roaches against blink stalkers. blink stalkers are almost designed to counter them
The problem with that is if you're not prepared for blink abuse, you won't have enough larvae to support lings production against stalker production. And there's always some spot ,to abuse lings by getting down or up a cliff.
On July 03 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote: Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
you get an evo at 37 supply with +2 melee ASAP. make about 10 roaches and then only lings off 2 gas and 3 hatch. +2 lings rape stalkers with or without blink.
you need good injects, but thats about it, if you can scout the council, you're in good shape as long as you don't make roaches, they just suck, lots of HP and decent DPS but can't diminish the blink stalker ball for shit
Fair enough, lings really are good at that but in my experience (both playing and watching) the toss player can get 1 round of zealots (say 6-8 of them) with his +1 or +2 weapons (which he gets as fast if not faster than zerg can get them, let alone that and armor) and just rips up any number of lings. Let's not even mention a couple of archons if the game gets there.
Don't get me wrong I do not always lose to this but when I win it always seems to me like the opponent did something supremely stupid (bad aggressive blinks or failed blink retreats losing half the army).
Another issue with lings is the fact that they are ineffective in any kind of choke and blink stalkers are mobile enough to get into a choke (or have sentries create one/make sure the lings can't run). On top of that lings are so larvae intensive that they scale pretty poorly if the game drags on a little (which the toss can force by just being more defensive as lings can't get up a choke) and when there are 30+ stalkers getting the equivalent cost of lings (which would destroy them) would require a huge investment in macro hatches.
Just seems odd to me. Blink stalkers are so easy to get to, have very few counters (all of which change depending on just a few of their support units) and are mobile enough to force engagements (usually in a favorable position as they can bypass static defenses and blink to chokes).
The ling idea also requires a heavy commitment (upgrades and macro hatches) well before any kind of blink is spotted. What happens if they go for some kind of zealot/archon heavy play (which is getting more and more popular)?
On July 03 2011 10:14 lunchforthesky wrote: I want to see someone try this blink stalkers stuff versus Nestea or Losira. I'm Zergs will then get answers on how to handle it.
Losira deals with it pretty easily He keeps the composition of ling/roach/hydra and later blings. and MASSES them. Like really really much.
On July 03 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote: Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
you get an evo at 37 supply with +2 melee ASAP. make about 10 roaches and then only lings off 2 gas and 3 hatch. +2 lings rape stalkers with or without blink.
you need good injects, but thats about it, if you can scout the council, you're in good shape as long as you don't make roaches, they just suck, lots of HP and decent DPS but can't diminish the blink stalker ball for shit
Fair enough, lings really are good at that but in my experience (both playing and watching) the toss player can get 1 round of zealots (say 6-8 of them) with his +1 or +2 weapons (which he gets as fast if not faster than zerg can get them, let alone that and armor) and just rips up any number of lings. Let's not even mention a couple of archons if the game gets there.
Don't get me wrong I do not always lose to this but when I win it always seems to me like the opponent did something supremely stupid (bad aggressive blinks or failed blink retreats losing half the army).
Another issue with lings is the fact that they are ineffective in any kind of choke and blink stalkers are mobile enough to get into a choke (or have sentries create one/make sure the lings can't run). On top of that lings are so larvae intensive that they scale pretty poorly if the game drags on a little (which the toss can force by just being more defensive as lings can't get up a choke) and when there are 30+ stalkers getting the equivalent cost of lings (which would destroy them) would require a huge investment in macro hatches.
Just seems odd to me. Blink stalkers are so easy to get to, have very few counters (all of which change depending on just a few of their support units) and are mobile enough to force engagements (usually in a favorable position as they can bypass static defenses and blink to chokes).
The ling idea also requires a heavy commitment (upgrades and macro hatches) well before any kind of blink is spotted. What happens if they go for some kind of zealot/archon heavy play (which is getting more and more popular)?
properly using lings isnt easy, you have to constantly threaten the counter / the surround. after you delay their blink timing enough you can get a bunch of hydras out for additional DPS.
i don't think you realize how good +2 lings are against stalkers, go into the unit tester and try to blink micro against 8 roaches + equal army supply of lings to blink stalkers.
zealots you deal with by making more roaches and simply not engaging them. lings are fast, run behind the zealots.
On July 03 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote: Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
you get an evo at 37 supply with +2 melee ASAP. make about 10 roaches and then only lings off 2 gas and 3 hatch. +2 lings rape stalkers with or without blink.
you need good injects, but thats about it, if you can scout the council, you're in good shape as long as you don't make roaches, they just suck, lots of HP and decent DPS but can't diminish the blink stalker ball for shit
Fair enough, lings really are good at that but in my experience (both playing and watching) the toss player can get 1 round of zealots (say 6-8 of them) with his +1 or +2 weapons (which he gets as fast if not faster than zerg can get them, let alone that and armor) and just rips up any number of lings. Let's not even mention a couple of archons if the game gets there.
Don't get me wrong I do not always lose to this but when I win it always seems to me like the opponent did something supremely stupid (bad aggressive blinks or failed blink retreats losing half the army).
Another issue with lings is the fact that they are ineffective in any kind of choke and blink stalkers are mobile enough to get into a choke (or have sentries create one/make sure the lings can't run). On top of that lings are so larvae intensive that they scale pretty poorly if the game drags on a little (which the toss can force by just being more defensive as lings can't get up a choke) and when there are 30+ stalkers getting the equivalent cost of lings (which would destroy them) would require a huge investment in macro hatches.
Just seems odd to me. Blink stalkers are so easy to get to, have very few counters (all of which change depending on just a few of their support units) and are mobile enough to force engagements (usually in a favorable position as they can bypass static defenses and blink to chokes).
The ling idea also requires a heavy commitment (upgrades and macro hatches) well before any kind of blink is spotted. What happens if they go for some kind of zealot/archon heavy play (which is getting more and more popular)?
I think you'd be surprised at the ability of truly great players to make 'overpowered' tactics look like trash.
Look at: MC holding about 20 roach/ling all in's in a row using Stargate, DT's, clutch forcefields. Nestea making the Protoss deathball look completely dated vs Anypro/Inca at the height of Protoss "Imbalance". MMA breaking Zerg late game with mass drop play sniping all your tech/hatcheries. Bomber making basically all Protoss players look like total jobbers by abusing their immobility and using a lot of Ghosts.
On July 03 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote: Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
you get an evo at 37 supply with +2 melee ASAP. make about 10 roaches and then only lings off 2 gas and 3 hatch. +2 lings rape stalkers with or without blink.
you need good injects, but thats about it, if you can scout the council, you're in good shape as long as you don't make roaches, they just suck, lots of HP and decent DPS but can't diminish the blink stalker ball for shit
Fair enough, lings really are good at that but in my experience (both playing and watching) the toss player can get 1 round of zealots (say 6-8 of them) with his +1 or +2 weapons (which he gets as fast if not faster than zerg can get them, let alone that and armor) and just rips up any number of lings. Let's not even mention a couple of archons if the game gets there.
Don't get me wrong I do not always lose to this but when I win it always seems to me like the opponent did something supremely stupid (bad aggressive blinks or failed blink retreats losing half the army).
Another issue with lings is the fact that they are ineffective in any kind of choke and blink stalkers are mobile enough to get into a choke (or have sentries create one/make sure the lings can't run). On top of that lings are so larvae intensive that they scale pretty poorly if the game drags on a little (which the toss can force by just being more defensive as lings can't get up a choke) and when there are 30+ stalkers getting the equivalent cost of lings (which would destroy them) would require a huge investment in macro hatches.
Just seems odd to me. Blink stalkers are so easy to get to, have very few counters (all of which change depending on just a few of their support units) and are mobile enough to force engagements (usually in a favorable position as they can bypass static defenses and blink to chokes).
The ling idea also requires a heavy commitment (upgrades and macro hatches) well before any kind of blink is spotted. What happens if they go for some kind of zealot/archon heavy play (which is getting more and more popular)?
Nestea making the Protoss deathball look completely dated vs Anypro/Inca at the height of Protoss "Imbalance".
which game was that? i only remember him going for lulzy baneling corrupter after being worlds ahead of anypro on terminus ... but that's not very impressive, i have yet to see NesTea crack a strong Protoss like LosirA did MC.
On July 03 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote: Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
you get an evo at 37 supply with +2 melee ASAP. make about 10 roaches and then only lings off 2 gas and 3 hatch. +2 lings rape stalkers with or without blink.
you need good injects, but thats about it, if you can scout the council, you're in good shape as long as you don't make roaches, they just suck, lots of HP and decent DPS but can't diminish the blink stalker ball for shit
Fair enough, lings really are good at that but in my experience (both playing and watching) the toss player can get 1 round of zealots (say 6-8 of them) with his +1 or +2 weapons (which he gets as fast if not faster than zerg can get them, let alone that and armor) and just rips up any number of lings. Let's not even mention a couple of archons if the game gets there.
Don't get me wrong I do not always lose to this but when I win it always seems to me like the opponent did something supremely stupid (bad aggressive blinks or failed blink retreats losing half the army).
Another issue with lings is the fact that they are ineffective in any kind of choke and blink stalkers are mobile enough to get into a choke (or have sentries create one/make sure the lings can't run). On top of that lings are so larvae intensive that they scale pretty poorly if the game drags on a little (which the toss can force by just being more defensive as lings can't get up a choke) and when there are 30+ stalkers getting the equivalent cost of lings (which would destroy them) would require a huge investment in macro hatches.
Just seems odd to me. Blink stalkers are so easy to get to, have very few counters (all of which change depending on just a few of their support units) and are mobile enough to force engagements (usually in a favorable position as they can bypass static defenses and blink to chokes).
The ling idea also requires a heavy commitment (upgrades and macro hatches) well before any kind of blink is spotted. What happens if they go for some kind of zealot/archon heavy play (which is getting more and more popular)?
Nestea making the Protoss deathball look completely dated vs Anypro/Inca at the height of Protoss "Imbalance".
which game was that? i only remember him going for lulzy baneling corrupter after being worlds ahead of anypro on terminus ... but that's not very impressive, i have yet to see NesTea crack a strong Protoss like LosirA did MC.
Well, somehow all the Protosses spam "cheesy builds" whenever they face Nestea, so Nestea just needed to fend that attack off rather than to play a long macro game
On July 03 2011 10:04 Sixes wrote: Can't blame Nerchio ... 4 bases to 2, huge supply lead and the proper unit mix to deal with blink stalkers.
But because there are 5 zealots and 2 immortals the composition falls apart completely and he has absolutely no solution.
Actually been having the same problem myself and seen a lot of pros have it, what is the solution to properly executed blink stalker play ? Ling/roach or ling/hydra with infestors do alright against pure stalker but as soon as a couple robo units and either zealots or sentries come out that all gets annihilated.
Not a balance whine, I am just genuinely confused as to the solution to that problem and a lot of pros seem to be too.
you get an evo at 37 supply with +2 melee ASAP. make about 10 roaches and then only lings off 2 gas and 3 hatch. +2 lings rape stalkers with or without blink.
you need good injects, but thats about it, if you can scout the council, you're in good shape as long as you don't make roaches, they just suck, lots of HP and decent DPS but can't diminish the blink stalker ball for shit
Fair enough, lings really are good at that but in my experience (both playing and watching) the toss player can get 1 round of zealots (say 6-8 of them) with his +1 or +2 weapons (which he gets as fast if not faster than zerg can get them, let alone that and armor) and just rips up any number of lings. Let's not even mention a couple of archons if the game gets there.
Don't get me wrong I do not always lose to this but when I win it always seems to me like the opponent did something supremely stupid (bad aggressive blinks or failed blink retreats losing half the army).
Another issue with lings is the fact that they are ineffective in any kind of choke and blink stalkers are mobile enough to get into a choke (or have sentries create one/make sure the lings can't run). On top of that lings are so larvae intensive that they scale pretty poorly if the game drags on a little (which the toss can force by just being more defensive as lings can't get up a choke) and when there are 30+ stalkers getting the equivalent cost of lings (which would destroy them) would require a huge investment in macro hatches.
Just seems odd to me. Blink stalkers are so easy to get to, have very few counters (all of which change depending on just a few of their support units) and are mobile enough to force engagements (usually in a favorable position as they can bypass static defenses and blink to chokes).
The ling idea also requires a heavy commitment (upgrades and macro hatches) well before any kind of blink is spotted. What happens if they go for some kind of zealot/archon heavy play (which is getting more and more popular)?
Nestea making the Protoss deathball look completely dated vs Anypro/Inca at the height of Protoss "Imbalance".
which game was that? i only remember him going for lulzy baneling corrupter after being worlds ahead of anypro on terminus ... but that's not very impressive, i have yet to see NesTea crack a strong Protoss like LosirA did MC.
Anypro is really good in PvZ. He did it on Taldarim Altar I think game 4, might have been game 2. A big aspect of it was he never let Inca/Anypro get the deathball in most games, he just played super aggressive and instead of turtling and expecting to win he put them on the back foot.
yeah it's pretty 2010 and doesn't really work if the T is aware of it
In the StarsWar tournament when MC played the chinese players all their builds were months behind, I wouldn't be surprised if that applies to all matchups and not just PvP.
uhh, on the FPView stream it says Dde is blue, but in the corner where it says who the observer is watching it says "oGs" is the name of the blue player???
On July 03 2011 10:58 mikyaJ wrote: uhh, on the FPView stream it says Dde is blue, but in the corner where it says who the observer is watching it says "oGs" is the name of the blue player???
Believe the in game one over the overlay. Blue is the stc.
On July 03 2011 11:09 cyclone25 wrote: Bad idea for WhiteRa to go for blink stalkers. Xigua plays a lot against Lovett, Lovecd and all they do is blink stalkers :D
He's Chinese. Of course he plays against a lot of blink stalkers.
On July 03 2011 11:09 cyclone25 wrote: Bad idea for WhiteRa to go for blink stalkers. Xigua plays a lot against Lovett, Lovecd and all they do is blink stalkers :D
Well, he almost make it look like he was coming back.
You need such a perfect army composition of ling roach and infestor to deal with blink it's easy to mess up.
On July 03 2011 11:11 Kraznaya wrote: Watermelon teaching Zergs how to beat blink stalekr
Playing against blink staler after almost killing whitera with the first push tho. <<
STC owns Sjow with the same build MKP used on him earlier.
I'm just glad to see TvT is becoming something other than an endless tank war of attrition. Then again, maybe this is just the Korean ladder TvT Pro vs Scrub build that they all use to get the games over with quicker
On July 03 2011 11:13 puzzl wrote: STC owns Sjow with the same build MKP used on him earlier.
I'm just glad to see TvT is becoming something other than an endless tank war of attrition. Then again, maybe this is just the Korean ladder TvT Pro vs Scrub build that they all use to get the games over with quicker
Nah you should watch MKP vs Polt in NASL Quals and MKP vs STC in Champion's Trophy earlier today; almost constant low economy aggression.
I'm curious if the connection from Korea to US has gotten better since the earthquake. I know that a lot of players were complaining about high latency back then, has it gotten any better now?
On July 03 2011 11:20 cyclone25 wrote: I'm curious if the connection from Korea to US has gotten better since the earthquake. I know that a lot of players were complaining about high latency back then, has it gotten any better now?
Just got back after staying with a friend in Korea. Its much better, most of the time the delay is around 500ms (sometimes lower), it does occasionally spike up to 1 second or more.
On July 03 2011 11:20 cyclone25 wrote: I'm curious if the connection from Korea to US has gotten better since the earthquake. I know that a lot of players were complaining about high latency back then, has it gotten any better now?
Well now that the Koreans are winning everything why would they complain? I imagine it's still pretty high latency but it's obviously not making them lose games. Still, NesTea says he doesn't compete in online tournaments because of it, so I imagine it's still pretty bad.
On July 03 2011 11:20 cyclone25 wrote: I'm curious if the connection from Korea to US has gotten better since the earthquake. I know that a lot of players were complaining about high latency back then, has it gotten any better now?
Well now that the Koreans are winning everything why would they complain? I imagine it's still pretty high latency but it's obviously not making them lose games. Still, NesTea says he doesn't compete in online tournaments because of it, so I imagine it's still pretty bad.
Haha, just as this is being talked about here, lag issues occur.
On July 03 2011 11:32 namedplayer wrote: xigua is pretty sloppy so far.. I'm not impressed with his play
He's too nervous. I've heard stories of him tearing apart sC on the Korean ladder.
I've heard so many stories of XiGua being amazing but all the games I can find of him online are pretty mediocre. He's not bad ... I just haven't seen any flashes of brilliance from him yet.
On July 03 2011 11:45 Qaatar wrote: Hahaha...MKP and sC are the two cheesiest players on the ladder, and MKP is treating this tournament like ladder practice...
According to IdrA, xiaOt is the cheesiest player on the Korean server. Lol.
Game 1 to XiGua. Stream lagged, and I came back in to see Yonghwa gg. Wish I knew what happened.
On July 03 2011 11:45 Qaatar wrote: Hahaha...MKP and sC are the two cheesiest players on the ladder, and MKP is treating this tournament like ladder practice...
lol what a naive read...
that wasn't cheesey. that was a SICK snap call. he KNEW what build his opp. was doing, thus, he knew he had slight advantage given his comp and what do you know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
it wasn't a "i hope this works" it was a "i know this works, im going for it" decision.
I'm glad XiGua got decently far so far (being the last non-Korean.) I've been wondering how the Chinese/Taiwan scene has been doing, since outside of Sen you don't see them at all.
On July 03 2011 11:45 Qaatar wrote: Hahaha...MKP and sC are the two cheesiest players on the ladder, and MKP is treating this tournament like ladder practice...
lol what a naive read...
that wasn't cheesey. that was a SICK snap call. he KNEW what build his opp. was doing, thus, he knew he had slight advantage given his comp and what do you know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
it wasn't a "i hope this works" it was a "i know this works, im going for it" decision.
Having a "slight advantage" and going in, knowing that one small micro mistake would cost one the game, is pretty much the practical definition of "cheese."
Perhaps saying "all-in" is more accurate, but my point still stands. The WE guys who practice with Prime and who ladder all the time on the Korean server say the same thing.
On July 03 2011 11:53 Ocedic wrote: I'm glad XiGua got decently far so far (being the last non-Korean.) I've been wondering how the Chinese/Taiwan scene has been doing, since outside of Sen you don't see them at all.
Scratch that, there's TESL matches broadcasted on J.tv all the time
On July 03 2011 11:50 Xeris wrote: Sen didn't show up?
No.
It's funny how players are so casual about this tournament. The prize money rivals MLG (if you account for MLG's travel expenses) plus has a smaller player pool.
On July 03 2011 11:50 Xeris wrote: Sen didn't show up?
No.
It's funny how players are so casual about this tournament. The prize money rivals MLG (if you account for MLG's travel expenses) plus has a smaller player pool.
I'd use a different word than 'funny', but I agree.
On July 03 2011 11:50 Xeris wrote: Sen didn't show up?
No.
It's funny how players are so casual about this tournament. The prize money rivals MLG (if you account for MLG's travel expenses) plus has a smaller player pool.
I'd use a different word than 'funny', but I agree.
Its their loss, though its pretty disappointing for the fans when they don't show up.
For those who missed it, Yonghwa went for a base-trade against XiGua, saw that he was losing, managed to get one probe out of his base, and proceeded to build "hidden" nexuses around the map.
Koreans going out of their way to be in this tournament well some of the foreigners don't show up. I am quickly losing respect for a lot of these foreign players and teams. The player for not showing up, the team for not holding them to their obligation (or in EG's case holding them to an obligation that is not being a player).
On July 03 2011 12:05 babylon wrote: For those who missed it, Yonghwa went for a base-trade against XiGua, saw that he was losing, managed to get one probe out of his base, and proceeded to build "hidden" nexuses around the map.
... That's how you play a base trade dude. It wasn't bm whatsoever
On July 03 2011 12:05 babylon wrote: For those who missed it, Yonghwa went for a base-trade against XiGua, saw that he was losing, managed to get one probe out of his base, and proceeded to build "hidden" nexuses around the map.
... That's how you play a base trade dude. It wasn't bm whatsoever
Well, did he have any kind of army or was he just building nexuses to be annoying? There is a big difference.
On July 03 2011 12:05 babylon wrote: For those who missed it, Yonghwa went for a base-trade against XiGua, saw that he was losing, managed to get one probe out of his base, and proceeded to build "hidden" nexuses around the map.
... That's how you play a base trade dude. It wasn't bm whatsoever
Well, did he have any kind of army or was he just building nexuses to be annoying? There is a big difference.
He actually had a significantly stronger army, from what I saw, only catching the tail-end. But he couldn't really do anything when the nexus was found.
On July 03 2011 11:50 Xeris wrote: Sen didn't show up?
No.
It's funny how players are so casual about this tournament. The prize money rivals MLG (if you account for MLG's travel expenses) plus has a smaller player pool.
On July 03 2011 12:05 babylon wrote: For those who missed it, Yonghwa went for a base-trade against XiGua, saw that he was losing, managed to get one probe out of his base, and proceeded to build "hidden" nexuses around the map.
... That's how you play a base trade dude. It wasn't bm whatsoever
Well, did he have any kind of army or was he just building nexuses to be annoying? There is a big difference.
He actually had a significantly stronger army, from what I saw, only catching the tail-end. But he couldn't really do anything when the nexus was found.
Yonghwa had the stronger army, but couldn't leave nexus without letting it die and XiGua was able to make more hatches and was mining and getting his tech back up. Not much Yonghwa could do in that situation.
Wait, isn't it.... 1-2 for MKP? Or is the banner not updated. I'm only paying half attention to these games, and without commentary I can randomly miss a lot. Is it Bo5 then as well? Or am I just completely wrong about everything.
On July 03 2011 12:05 babylon wrote: For those who missed it, Yonghwa went for a base-trade against XiGua, saw that he was losing, managed to get one probe out of his base, and proceeded to build "hidden" nexuses around the map.
... That's how you play a base trade dude. It wasn't bm whatsoever
Well, did he have any kind of army or was he just building nexuses to be annoying? There is a big difference.
He actually had a significantly stronger army, from what I saw, only catching the tail-end. But he couldn't really do anything when the nexus was found.
Maybe it's just me, but even if you have a bigger army, when your opponent has many more mining bases than you (you have 0 mining bases, keep in mind) and a sizable army which he can quickly rebuild from what he already has banked, and when all you can do is literally sit on top of your nexus to stay in the game, you should probably gg.
On July 03 2011 12:05 babylon wrote: For those who missed it, Yonghwa went for a base-trade against XiGua, saw that he was losing, managed to get one probe out of his base, and proceeded to build "hidden" nexuses around the map.
... That's how you play a base trade dude. It wasn't bm whatsoever
Well, did he have any kind of army or was he just building nexuses to be annoying? There is a big difference.
He actually had a significantly stronger army, from what I saw, only catching the tail-end. But he couldn't really do anything when the nexus was found.
he had five colossi, watermelon had lings and corruptors. but it's still really an unwinnable situation since he literally can't leave his nexus without instantly losing the game (which is what happened)
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Don't forget he's playing with extreme lag CN -> US
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Keep in mind the delay from China to NA is probably worse than any other server combination.
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Like everyone says, the secret weapon of the Chinese are the Protosses.
XiGua is still the best Chinese Zerg though.
Edit: F91 is too old now, but he's #2 behind XiGua right now.
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Like everyone says, the secret weapon of the Chinese are the Protosses.
10 minutes in, MKP has still not scouted his opponents base. :O He knows location but has zero idea of tech/econ besides what GMH has thrown at him. Interesting.
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Like everyone says, the secret weapon of the Chinese are the Protosses.
XiGua is still the best Chinese Zerg though.
Which leads me to wonder ... how is F91 doing?
He practices a lot with one of the official Chinese casters for the GSL. I don't know too much...I think he has an 1800+ account on Korean Masters, and is pretty much the second best Zerg in China.
China is the land of the P. The Zergs are weak, and Terran is laughable. Infi sucks.
MKP loses several SCVs from a blue flame hellion drop, but he manages to push out onto the map with a good amount of marauders and destroys the mech push of Gumiho.
On July 03 2011 12:26 puzzl wrote: 10 minutes in, MKP has still not scouted his opponents base. :O He knows location but has zero idea of tech/econ besides what GMH has thrown at him. Interesting.
gumiho does the gas first into hellions into mech every game
On July 03 2011 12:26 puzzl wrote: 10 minutes in, MKP has still not scouted his opponents base. :O He knows location but has zero idea of tech/econ besides what GMH has thrown at him. Interesting.
Because it doesn't matter. The only things that could be dangerous when unscouted, i.e. massive tech switches to like Banshees or BCs, would leave him so vunerable to insta-losing.
And Gumiho is predictable anyway compared to most Terrans
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Like everyone says, the secret weapon of the Chinese are the Protosses.
XiGua is still the best Chinese Zerg though.
Which leads me to wonder ... how is F91 doing?
He practices a lot with one of the official Chinese casters for the GSL. I don't know too much...I think he has an 1800+ account on Korean Masters, and is pretty much the second best Zerg in China.
China is the land of the P. The Zergs are weak, and Terran is laughable. Infi sucks.
Thanks! Has Infi even officially switched from WC3 yet? Also, where do you get your hands on the Chinese GSL vids? I'd actually love to watch them.
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Like everyone says, the secret weapon of the Chinese are the Protosses.
XiGua is still the best Chinese Zerg though.
Which leads me to wonder ... how is F91 doing?
He practices a lot with one of the official Chinese casters for the GSL. I don't know too much...I think he has an 1800+ account on Korean Masters, and is pretty much the second best Zerg in China.
China is the land of the P. The Zergs are weak, and Terran is laughable. Infi sucks.
Thanks! Has Infi even officially switched from WC3 yet? Also, where do you get your hands on the Chinese GSL vids? I'd actually love to watch them.
The vods are free, and are high quality as well...and honestly, the analysis is FAR superior to Tastosis. Just not nearly as humorous, of course.
Edit 2: It's kind of funny, as sometimes the Chinese Vods have higher views than the English versions, and keep in mind that Neotv has only been doing this for a couple months.
On July 03 2011 12:33 babylon wrote: Well, good effort, XiGua! Think I'll take a step outside while the TvTs run ...
On July 03 2011 12:27 Qaatar wrote:
On July 03 2011 12:25 babylon wrote:
On July 03 2011 12:24 Qaatar wrote:
On July 03 2011 12:22 Arceus wrote: Xigua is decent but not impressive at all. I find other foreign zergs like morrow or idra way better than this guy tbh
Like everyone says, the secret weapon of the Chinese are the Protosses.
XiGua is still the best Chinese Zerg though.
Which leads me to wonder ... how is F91 doing?
He practices a lot with one of the official Chinese casters for the GSL. I don't know too much...I think he has an 1800+ account on Korean Masters, and is pretty much the second best Zerg in China.
China is the land of the P. The Zergs are weak, and Terran is laughable. Infi sucks.
Thanks! Has Infi even officially switched from WC3 yet? Also, where do you get your hands on the Chinese GSL vids? I'd actually love to watch them.
The vods are free, and are high quality as well...and honestly, the analysis is FAR superior to Tastosis. Just not nearly as humorous, of course.
Edit 2: It's kind of funny, as sometimes the Chinese Vods have higher views than the English versions, and keep in mind that Neotv has only been doing this for a couple months.
Dude, that's fucking awesome. What a gold mine. Thanks so much!
On July 03 2011 12:40 obesemk wrote: Haha Khaldor seems so displeased with the tvt.
Actually he said it's going to be interesting because he saw some good games from korean terrans in mirror at NASL qualifiers and not the usual tank standoffs.
On July 03 2011 12:50 Olinim wrote: According to the brackets some of the games were bo1 and some bo3 in the first round, can anyone explain why didn't watch the tourney.
On July 03 2011 12:50 Olinim wrote: According to the brackets some of the games were bo1 and some bo3 in the first round, can anyone explain why didn't watch the tourney.
On July 03 2011 12:52 mikyaJ wrote: So MKP qualified for NASL S2, won the SK Champion's Trophy tournament, and might now win this tournament, all in one day.
On July 03 2011 12:51 Ryukku wrote: hmmm im sorry if this has arldy been answered, but since the rest of hte players are in korea why not just play on the korean server???
To do that, all of the casters would need KR accounts. I've never seen a tournament switch servers before the finals or semis, even when all the players are from one region.
Versus that kind of thing, you need to pull ALL of your SCVs, and kill every single Marine and every single SCV in that first attack, shut it down completely, the problem is, that's NOT the right response if it was a single Proxy Rax with one back at the base. Needs moar scouting.
On July 03 2011 12:59 Rawenkeke wrote: Bah. Slightly dissapointed with no english commentators, other than that this is a great series.
I think that FXO believes Khaldor is commentating in English, otherwise they wouldn't have a banner on the bottom of the FPV stream in English telling people to go watch Khaldor.
1-1 Gumiho takes game 2 with some impressive banshee management and defense of TheStC's followup tank/marine push. Gumiho managed to secure his expansion and TheStC never started a second CC.
I was watching the FPV stream, so I didn't get a chance to see if this was the case, but Gumiho's Orbital at the end was the same one that almost burned down after TheStC's marine push?
On July 03 2011 13:08 Phyxx wrote: The FPV stream seems to lag for me even on lower quality. Anyone having the same problem?
He's probably playing TF2 -.-
Oh well, I guess I can watch Khaldors stream muted then
Hmm, maybe I'm the only person who enjoys having commentary on just for the background noise (like leaving a TV on.) I don't even really pay attention to ENG commentary usually, just there for the noise.
XiGua seemed pretty good. His play isn't perfect but he knows what he's doing. The lack of good Terran practice partners is showing, though. I imagine all of these Chinese players play on the Korean server but there's no real replacement for targeted team house practice. And even if CCM operates a team house, I doubt there's any good Terran in it.
On July 03 2011 13:19 Azarkon wrote: XiGua seemed pretty good. His play isn't perfect but he knows what he's doing. The lack of good Terran practice partners is showing, though. I imagine all of these Chinese players play on the Korean server but there's no real replacement for targeted team house practice. And even if CCM operates a team house, I doubt there's any good Terran in it.
The Chinese, like most non-Koreans, use the ladder (the Korean ladder especially), as the main source of practice.
Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
No, read earlier - Wolf was MIA and Unstable just had some dentist work done and it's too painful to talk.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
It makes perfect sense to have it in German and it really doesn't take much away from the games for other fans, except that it is very early in the morning in Germany atm.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was in Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English. It's just a guess, but I'd imagine most of the people watching his stream can't speak German since it's 6 AM in Germany.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Im under that belief too and I'm pretty sure its correct.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Im under that belief too and I'm pretty sure its correct.
Yeah I just looked it up and it says that Koreans learn english from 3rd grade to 12th. D:
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Everyone does, as does most other kids in first world or developing Asian countries. The main difference is that people from Altaic and Sino-Tibetan language backgrounds (basically, Asian) have a much higher degree of difficulty in picking up the language.
The German language is in the same language group as English...so of course it's easier to learn.
The English learned in Korean schools from 3rd grade to 12th grade is like elementary school or below level of English. Its basically teaching the ability to read something and comprehend what you are reading. The ability to speak and comprehend someone speaking at a normal/above normal pace isn't picked up unless special lessons are done.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Im under that belief too and I'm pretty sure its correct.
Yeah I just looked it up and it says that Koreans learn english from 3rd grade to 12th. D:
I've heard that if you have a college degree you can go to Korea and teach English without knowing Korean. I think their quality of English education (or emphasis on learning English) is not quite as high as Germany, especially when you see that the Koreans that come to international tournies have to have translators. MC is the only Korean SC2 pro I've seen speak more than one or two words of English and that can probably be attributed to living with English speaking Liquid members.
I guess it is basically like Americans* trying to learn Spanish. We just forget it later when we aren't keeping up but still maintain some trivial knowledge.
I don't know more than maybe 2 words in German, but I do actually like listening to Khaldor in German, but maybe I'm just weird! (That, and I know what's going on, lol)
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Im under that belief too and I'm pretty sure its correct.
Yeah I just looked it up and it says that Koreans learn english from 3rd grade to 12th. D:
I've heard that if you have a college degree you can go to Korea and teach English without knowing Korean. I think they're quality of English education (or emphasis on learning English) is not quite as high as Germany, especially when you see that the Koreans that come to international tournies have to have translators. MC is the only Korean SC2 pro I've seen speak more than one or two words of English and that can probably be attributed to living with English speaking Liquid members.
Let's not forget that these progamers aren't necessarily the best students.
I know plenty of Chinese kids who have excellent English comprehension and speaking ability, straight out of highschool, without any special tutoring. And, as far as I know, the English education system in China isn't even as good as the South Korean system.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Im under that belief too and I'm pretty sure its correct.
Yeah I just looked it up and it says that Koreans learn english from 3rd grade to 12th. D:
I've heard that if you have a college degree you can go to Korea and teach English without knowing Korean. I think they're quality of English education (or emphasis on learning English) is not quite as high as Germany, especially when you see that the Koreans that come to international tournies have to have translators. MC is the only Korean SC2 pro I've seen speak more than one or two words of English and that can probably be attributed to living with English speaking Liquid members.
There are plenty of Korean pros who have spoken English on camera, many of them better than MC. It is also ignorant to say Germany's English education is "higher" than Korea considering learning English as a Korean is literally three times as hard as learning English is a German.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Im under that belief too and I'm pretty sure its correct.
Yeah I just looked it up and it says that Koreans learn english from 3rd grade to 12th. D:
I've heard that if you have a college degree you can go to Korea and teach English without knowing Korean. I think their quality of English education (or emphasis on learning English) is not quite as high as Germany, especially when you see that the Koreans that come to international tournies have to have translators. MC is the only Korean SC2 pro I've seen speak more than one or two words of English and that can probably be attributed to living with English speaking Liquid members.
MC also has an english tutor, at least he did. He tweeted about it before.
On July 03 2011 13:32 Ocedic wrote: Hmm so Khaldor is under the impression there's an English caster (unstable with wolf) on FXO. So seems like FXO miscommunicated or has poor organization. Not a huge deal but would be nice to have commentary.
Can anyone communicate to Khaldor that this is not the case? Maybe he would switch to English.
Eh, I think that's kind of unfair to the German viewers or those tuning in for the German casting. It's unfortunate there's no English, but ultimately that's FXO's fault.
Most Germans that are the age that play SC2 speak or at least understand English. When I was Germany every teen/young adult I met could speak English. It's not like Korea or something where nobody studies English.
Actually I thought almost everyone learns English in Korea xD
Im under that belief too and I'm pretty sure its correct.
Yeah I just looked it up and it says that Koreans learn english from 3rd grade to 12th. D:
I've heard that if you have a college degree you can go to Korea and teach English without knowing Korean. I think they're quality of English education (or emphasis on learning English) is not quite as high as Germany, especially when you see that the Koreans that come to international tournies have to have translators. MC is the only Korean SC2 pro I've seen speak more than one or two words of English and that can probably be attributed to living with English speaking Liquid members.
There are plenty of Korean pros who have spoken English on camera, many of them better than MC. It is also ignorant to say Germany's English education is "higher" than Korea considering learning English as a Korean is literally three times as hard as learning English is a German.
I'm not arguing that learning English for a Korean is not difficult. In fact, that is a reason why their level of education is lower than in Germany. They have to teach the basics for 3 times as long while in Germany in that same amount of time they have progressed to more advanced English since learning the basics is easier for them. More advanced = "higher," at least in the context I was using it.
was that a 1 rax fe? he holds a 2 rax proxy after he held the 2 gates unscouted in his base in the gsl super tournament I would've thought that people would stop trying this cheese against him.
On July 03 2011 14:01 Qaatar wrote: MKP is going to clean house with StC. Gumiho is more of a macro player - MKP's style is much harder to stop.
Called it.
Seriously, StC's style plays right into MKP's hands. As Leenock said, no one should try to rush unless he/she has the level of micro that MKP has. Unfortunately, StC's doesn't have that level of micro.
On July 03 2011 14:26 mikyaJ wrote: I like how the exact same thing happened versus Gumiho (Proxy 2 rax vs. 1 rax fe) and you guys said BO Loss. Wat
There are no buildorder losses vs the marineking. muahahahahaha
No that just wasn't a build order loss versus Gumiho either.
Oh Gumiho defended it too? I missed his games. I watched the beginning of the tourney and just came back for the end of gumiho vs stc and this finals. my bad >.<
On July 03 2011 12:58 mikyaJ wrote: Versus that kind of thing, you need to pull ALL of your SCVs, and kill every single Marine and every single SCV in that first attack, shut it down completely, the problem is, that's NOT the right response if it was a single Proxy Rax with one back at the base. Needs moar scouting.
On July 03 2011 11:50 Xeris wrote: Sen didn't show up?
No.
It's funny how players are so casual about this tournament. The prize money rivals MLG (if you account for MLG's travel expenses) plus has a smaller player pool.
Online tournaments will always be considered on a lower tier than the "LAN" events, just how it is.
I don't know guys, StC isn't as good as people hype him up to be. He doesn't have the macro to keep up with the Code S players. Most of his wins (versus the Koreans) have come from early aggression. Maybe that's just his TvT though.
On July 03 2011 14:34 mikyaJ wrote: I don't know guys, StC isn't as good as people hype him up to be. He doesn't have the macro to keep up with the Code S players. Most of his wins (versus the Koreans) have come from early aggression. Maybe that's just his TvT though.
I think it's all just hype that carried over from the Beta. I didn't follow him back then, but apparently he was near the top. I guess the time off from the army is really noticeable. Then again, a lot of the Beta heroes have really faltered
MKP got his supply advantage gearing up for a huge 1 base bust, he didn't build an orbital like STC. Doesn't work on Tal'Darim's terrain, though, and his control was pretty sloppy.
On July 03 2011 14:34 mikyaJ wrote: I don't know guys, StC isn't as good as people hype him up to be. He doesn't have the macro to keep up with the Code S players. Most of his wins (versus the Koreans) have come from early aggression. Maybe that's just his TvT though.
His TvT was enough to beat SeleCt (with SeleCt having a latency advantage) in multiple series, ending up at like 11-4 or something. That was back when he was still in the army as well.
On July 03 2011 14:36 Canucklehead wrote: Ok I think mkp is tired and wants to sleep. Don't do that again and blow this!
Isn't it 2:30 pm in korea?
Yes, but mkp played some asian championship yesterday and won that, then played nasl at 2am and qualified for that and then fxo at like 7am? I'm not sure if he's even gone to bed yet, cause I saw him tweet at like 6am kst.
On July 03 2011 14:36 Canucklehead wrote: Ok I think mkp is tired and wants to sleep. Don't do that again and blow this!
Isn't it 2:30 pm in korea?
Yes, but mkp played some asian championship yesterday and won that, then played nasl at 2am an qualified for that and then fxo at like 7am? I'm not sure if he's even gone to bed yet, cause I saw him tweet at like 6am kst.
Oh thats true. I forgot he was going for a triple crown in the last 24 hours
On July 03 2011 14:39 pretensile wrote: I think the only thing I've learned from today's games is that one-base play is extremely popular.
They're playing like they usually play on the ladder. Most of the Korean terrans who boast high win percentages play like this - sC, MKP, Taeja, Ganzi, Happy, etc. (this guy is a fucking 3 rax cheese monster according to some of the WE guys).
On July 03 2011 14:39 pretensile wrote: I think the only thing I've learned from today's games is that one-base play is extremely popular.
Well in tvt you can one base for a certain amount of time. But if your opponent fast expands and you don't really hurt him with your aggression then its either pull all your scvs and go all in for a decent chance or try expo yourself, but a good player will never let you come back from that econ disadvantage. So its no surprise there is a lot of all ins off 1 base if the opponent is consistently fast expanding.
On July 03 2011 14:36 Canucklehead wrote: Ok I think mkp is tired and wants to sleep. Don't do that again and blow this!
Isn't it 2:30 pm in korea?
He hasn't gone to bed yet xD
MKP won this, NASL Qualifier (well not won, but Top 4 which is all that matters to qualify, they havn't even played out the rest of the matches yet), and the SK Champion's Trophy Korea (July) all in one day. :OO
On July 03 2011 14:46 Canucklehead wrote: Yes mkp gets the triple crown today!!!
woah what other two tournys did he win? crazy
He won some asian tourney, not sure of exact name but he beat ogs cezanne in finals 3-1. Then he played nasl qualifiers and qualified for season 2 and now he won FXOpen all in the span of 24 hours and not sure if he even went to bed.
Well for what it's worth, his two time first place in FXOpen tournaments more or less gives him a 100% chance to play in our LAN events in the future, where he'll be playing for much more than $5000 ^^
On July 03 2011 14:50 Herry wrote: Its the Star league that counts, but its good to see him step up and win some shit.
True, but it's nice to see him not take his GSL loss too hard. I'm glad he is taking more interest in events outside of the GSL. Bo1 doesn't mix well with MKP.
Big thanks to all the casters and viewers as usual, and the players for making another great event! Special thanks to the French casters who were first time casters in an FXO event, SjoW and MorroW for filling in for no-shows, and MarineKingPrime who has taken 2 consecutive titles!
On July 03 2011 16:45 Fyzar wrote: Excuse me if this is a retarded question, but will there be vods? I sadly forgot about it and I want to see MK pwn some face ;<\
VODs and replays. I'm going through the replays now and will be uploading shortly.
Sadly not everyone sent their replays, so it wont be every single game from the tournament.
On July 03 2011 16:45 Fyzar wrote: Excuse me if this is a retarded question, but will there be vods? I sadly forgot about it and I want to see MK pwn some face ;<\
VODs and replays. I'm going through the replays now and will be uploading shortly.
Sadly not everyone sent their replays, so it wont be every single game from the tournament.
I'll love you long time if it contains at least the Mkp relays
On July 03 2011 17:28 ProxyKnoxy wrote: Why does it say that IdrA was invited in the TL events?
He was invited, but had to pull out a couple of days beforehand due to casting commitments or something. He was replaced by one of the Chinese players.
Pretty intresting seeing that the Chinese are fast catching up to the Koreans. I watched much of the fxo stream today and was a bit bummed out that there wasnt much commentary |: The previous fxopenis's had better casting imo.
at least winning 1 macro game vs the runnerup makes me feel alittle better now about my loss xd
Agree. You were one 2 rax defense away to own it up imo, hope you'll find someone to practice the "korean 2 rax" with, that was heart breaking to see you win a beatiful game then lose the next 2 just on 2 rax defense TT
On July 03 2011 22:19 frequency wrote: Ok, I've uploaded every replay that was sent to me or that I was observing. If I get any more games from the other casts I'll edit and re-upload.
On July 03 2011 22:19 frequency wrote: Ok, I've uploaded every replay that was sent to me or that I was observing. If I get any more games from the other casts I'll edit and re-upload.
On July 03 2011 16:48 Ruscour wrote: I'm happy IdrA dropped out and XiGua ended up in, China has a ton of potential when it comes to players. At least foreigners finished 4th and 5th :3
I'm happy Idra dropped out too, it means this thread is really mellow and friendly and there aren't hordes of people screaming about imbalance every time Idra loses to a superior Korean.
On July 03 2011 22:19 frequency wrote: Ok, I've uploaded every replay that was sent to me or that I was observing. If I get any more games from the other casts I'll edit and re-upload.
After trying multiple times to download the replaypack, the UB, LB and G finals were all missing so I couldn't see admin forgetting to put them in the folder. I read the error message and in fact 28 (!!!) of the replays have more than 260 letters and winrar cannot extract with more than 260 letters (from what I've understand).
Here are all the folrders:
LB Final and Grand Final: empty LB R1: empy LB R2: xiaot vs dde g1/g2 nerchio vs whitera g1 LB R3, LB R4, LB R5: empy UB Final: empty UB Ro4: gumiohfou vs imyonghwa g1/g2g UB Ro8: gumioh vs xiaot g1/g2/g3 yonghwa vs ganzi g2/g3 UB Ro16: gumioh vs whitera g1/g2 major vs xiaot g1/g2/g3
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OzEP4.png)
FXOpen e-Sports celebrates 6 months in the StarCraft II scene with an even bigger version of our ![[image loading]](http://challonge.com/images/brackets/fxois4_final.png)
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IMYonghwa![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tsld/images/flags/ca.png)
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OrigineTV will providing French coverage of the event. Their stream will be available at 
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1st ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/0/0b/Silver.png)
2nd ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/f/f2/Bronze.png)
3rd 
