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On March 31 2011 09:05 ThaZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 08:30 HeroHenry wrote:On March 31 2011 08:21 ThaZenith wrote:On March 31 2011 07:41 chenchen wrote:
I really think that people should stop flaunting their ignorance.
Four gate is standard in PvP.
In literally every match up other than PvP, San goes for an econ based macro game, the origin of his nickname "The Wack-a-Mole Protoss", because he expands everywhere and even when he loses so much stuff, he just rebuilds it because he has so much stuff. It isn't ignorance to not enjoy watching 4 gates, it's preference. Getting a masters degree in PvP wouldn't change the fact I don't enjoy watching 4 gates. I don't care if San sucked 3 seasons ago, or was great last season, 4 gating isn't entertaining. I don't understand why people can't admit other people have preferences in the games they watch. You don't insult someone just because they like/dislike reality shows, why would you do the same to someone who likes/dislikes 4 gates. It's a style that they find boring. You should really stop flaunting your ignorance in spectatorship.  Don't care that that's not a real word lol. ^^ Massing up collosus and seeing who has more isn't that much better. Did I say it was? Not sure why you're quoting me to say that. I've said nothing about my preferences on PvP past that i dislike 4 gates.
Well, the thing is that there isn't much else you can do in PvP that won't just roll over and die to a 4gate besides 4gate. Unless two players make some weird pact to not 4gate before a match (which would be ridiculous), it's hard to blame anyone. Consider San's position: What if he had 4gated because he knew he'd die if WhiteRa 4gated? Like, the problem with the whole matchup is that it kind of revolves around 4gate, and you can't really avoid it no matter what you do.
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On March 31 2011 08:51 Altern wrote:
HOLY CRAP Did DIMAGA beat NesTea ZvZ in Bo3???! I'm a fan.
It wasn't a fair match, the sun was in Nestea's eyes.
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On March 31 2011 09:12 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 08:51 Altern wrote:
HOLY CRAP Did DIMAGA beat NesTea ZvZ in Bo3???! I'm a fan. It wasn't a fair match, the sun was in Nestea's eyes.
Well he also wasn't trying... they just want the foreigners to feel good...
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god i hate this observer for gsl always hiding the UI at the bottom, shit is annoying
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On March 31 2011 07:08 NexUmbra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 06:46 Irrelevant wrote:
Wow Dimaga over Nestea has to be the biggest upset of the year so far, and just the way he did it in game 3 outplaying him from start to finish so fucking BOSS. So a GREAT player taking out a AMAZING player is the biggest upset of the year?? How about the champion of the previous seasons GSL falling to up and down... and then going to code A
When it's Nestea's first televised ZVZ loss EVER, yes, that's a pretty friggin huge upset. Like seriously, Nestea's ZVZ win streak started in GSL Season 2, and continued through until Game 2 vs Dimaga today.
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Dimaga's mindset:
Before First game: I got this.
After first game before second game: Fuck. Screw it. I'm fucking up his perfect ZvZ record.
After second game before third: HAHAHAHA. Man i bet hes pissed. I'm going to target his queens. That will be funny.
After third game: Damn I'm good.
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On March 31 2011 09:12 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 08:51 Altern wrote:
HOLY CRAP Did DIMAGA beat NesTea ZvZ in Bo3???! I'm a fan. It wasn't a fair match, the sun was in Nestea's eyes.
NesTea also did a huge amount of acid before the series, so he thought dimaga's zerglins were actually his Korean fan girls swarming his overlord hunting queen.
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On March 31 2011 10:32 Jisall wrote:
Dimaga's mindset:
Before First game: I got this.
After first game before second game: Fuck. Screw it. I'm fucking up his perfect ZvZ record.
After second game before third: HAHAHAHA. Man i bet hes pissed. I'm going to target his queens. That will be funny.
After third game: Damn I'm good.
No, you got it all wrong.
Dimagas mindset was: vodka > nestea. therefor I win.
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On March 31 2011 11:14 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 10:32 Jisall wrote:
Dimaga's mindset:
Before First game: I got this.
After first game before second game: Fuck. Screw it. I'm fucking up his perfect ZvZ record.
After second game before third: HAHAHAHA. Man i bet hes pissed. I'm going to target his queens. That will be funny.
After third game: Damn I'm good. No, you got it all wrong. Dimagas mindset was: vodka > nestea. therefor I win.
hehehehe. thats good.
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![[image loading]](http://bbs.plu.cn/attachments/month_1103/110330234633336a2087614a14.jpg)
Just saw this in other forum.
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2-1 over Nestea, who's consensus best ZvZ, after beating July on warpath, who's probably playing some of the best Z in the world right now. Dimaga must feel invincible.
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On March 31 2011 06:51 ThaZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 06:39 HolyArrow wrote:
Oh, and did you really find San's games against sC, his game against Nestea, and his game against Sen to be not entertaining? I guess that's your opinion and all, but it's going to be very, very difficult for you to support if we were to actually delve into the specifics.
I have no idea what games you're talking about. I don't base my opinion on a player, at this very moment, on games they played awhile ago. MVP played great a couple seasons ago, I loved watching him. Then he started to play worse. Less entertaining, so I don't look forward to him as much. And I don't see anything about a double standard in the slightest. I find 4 gating boring, so I find anyone using it less entertaining. And I'll like them less. It's that simple. If white-ra was 4 gating every game, I'd like him less too.. I found every game by Dimaga to be entertaining, thus I like him more now. And I found Nestea's play to be entertaining too, so I like him more also. I don't judge players based on if they win, it's how much I enjoy watching them. I'm a spectator, i don't give a crap about what you think is "best", I don't care which playstyle is "best", if it's not fun to watch why the hell would I like the player who does it?
What a bandwagoner - or you just don't watch enough starcraft to know what you're talking about. How many games did MVP really played "worse"? Two games against July and 2 games against Protoss (which his is worst match up)? Did you not see how he bossed GSTL 2 against Ryung with a BC play that was right after the patch? He almost reverse all killed slayers until MMA, bringing it to the very final match. And also BC play against Dimaga? But just because he played poorly in 4 games like a month ago and he has been playing brilliantly ever since with entertaining style including BCs you like him less?
You make no sense.
San played brilliantly against Nestea, sc, Sen (and because I know you haven't seen it, it involved carriers against mutas and he still came out on top in the end after a huge deficit), but just because his last 4 televised sets were pvp and he had to inevitably 4gate you start shitting on him? Yes I bet san wished he gets pvp match ups when he was drawing his opponent because his previous televised games showed he can't do anything else but 4gate /sarcasm
Really?
You sir, don't know what you're talking about. At all.
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No talk about Nada today? I am very sad he lost  I want him to become good but he seems to be too busy with school and might take the same path as Boxer ((((((((((((((((( Man after Nada got to RO8 in GSL5 I thought he was gonna be the first bonjiwa of SC2 ...(lol a little unrealistic i know but atleast win the GSL 5)
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On March 31 2011 11:40 kiniko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 06:51 ThaZenith wrote:On March 31 2011 06:39 HolyArrow wrote:
Oh, and did you really find San's games against sC, his game against Nestea, and his game against Sen to be not entertaining? I guess that's your opinion and all, but it's going to be very, very difficult for you to support if we were to actually delve into the specifics.
I have no idea what games you're talking about. I don't base my opinion on a player, at this very moment, on games they played awhile ago. MVP played great a couple seasons ago, I loved watching him. Then he started to play worse. Less entertaining, so I don't look forward to him as much. And I don't see anything about a double standard in the slightest. I find 4 gating boring, so I find anyone using it less entertaining. And I'll like them less. It's that simple. If white-ra was 4 gating every game, I'd like him less too.. I found every game by Dimaga to be entertaining, thus I like him more now. And I found Nestea's play to be entertaining too, so I like him more also. I don't judge players based on if they win, it's how much I enjoy watching them. I'm a spectator, i don't give a crap about what you think is "best", I don't care which playstyle is "best", if it's not fun to watch why the hell would I like the player who does it? What a bandwagoner - or you just don't watch enough starcraft to know what you're talking about. How many games did MVP really played "worse"? Two games against July and 2 games against Protoss (which his is worst match up)? Did you not see how he bossed GSTL 2 against Ryung with a BC play that was right after the patch? He almost reverse all killed slayers until MMA, bringing it to the very final match. And also BC play against Dimaga? But just because he played poorly in 4 games like a month ago and he has been playing brilliantly ever since with entertaining style including BCs you like him less? You make no sense.
I don't get this either. The guy has the highest win ratio in Korea. He has the highest peak elo. Apparently losing 4 games makes you bad. Wonder what winning 45 games means... Only Mvp and MC have a "Flash-like" win record right now.
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Really great, glad a for a non-korean winner today.
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On March 31 2011 06:54 Logo2010 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 06:40 kirbynator wrote:On March 31 2011 06:38 tdt wrote:On March 31 2011 06:16 AntiGrav1ty wrote:On March 31 2011 06:09 HolyArrow wrote:On March 31 2011 06:08 ThaZenith wrote:On March 31 2011 06:01 HolyArrow wrote:
So Dimaga baneling busts MVP and all-ins Nestea and he's your hero, while your opinion of San goes down when he 4gates in PvP?
. Exactly correct. I'm glad you understand. It's nice to see people complicit in their double standards. It's nice to see complete ignorance. Attacking after Hatch first off 2 bases after being 2-raxed/4-raxed isn't even close to 4-gate pushing. Also 10-pooling is a huge risk because it gets hard-countered very easily. He took the risk and won. There is NOTHING that hardcounters 4-gate. There is no risk to 4-gate at all. It's either easy-win or an even game against another 4-gate (in PvP) Didnt WHITE-RA counter the best 4 gater MC with 3 gate robo? no What do you call gate robo gate gate?
White-Ra didn't hard counter MC's 4gate, because MC didn't 4gate in the sense we're talking about (a really really fast 4gate push). By waiting for blink, MC gave White-Ra enough time to get an observer and then two immortals... such a thing is physically impossible if someone is 4gate rushing you (like what San did to White-Ra in game three).
And besides, White-Ra and MC stalemated during most of their engagements (although MC had to cut some probes). It was only White-Ra's strategy of warping in a few units into MC's mineral line that really turned the tides in his favor.
Even then, 3gate robo isn't a "hard counter" to 4gate blink. It's pretty darn even. On the other hand, hard counter = auto-win.
White-Ra was angry that San 4gated him to win (probably because he expected longer macro games with more strategy involved), but 4gate is perfectly viable, especially in PvP. I love White-Ra and am extremely impressed with his strategies, but I feel that he should have been open to the idea that he could be getting rushed fast.
It's kind of like how IdrA used to be pegged as macro-oriented to the point where he would power so hard that he'd leave himself slightly vulnerable early on... and so people would cheese/ rush him (and because they didn't want to deal with him in a macro game). Granted, he can stop rushes now, but that was what people did to him. I feel like people will do the same to White-Ra, if he stubbornly refuses to 4gate or doesn't think people will 4gate him.
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I'm just happy that at least 1 foreigner won in these games. Suprisingly Dimaga coming out on top was the least likely of them all imo.
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I don't think he's got any right to be angry. As a progamer you do what it takes to win. Dimaga understands that perfectly.
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On March 31 2011 13:01 On_Slaught wrote:
I'm just happy that at least 1 foreigner won in these games. Suprisingly Dimaga coming out on top was the least likely of them all imo.
Even after the performance of Team Korea vs. The World? I would have pegged HuK as least likely to be the foreigner to advance, and he definitely played worse than Dimaga and White-Ra.
I actually predicted Dimaga > White-Ra > HuK for likelihood of moving on, and that's what we saw as far as skill went.
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Will be interesting to see how Dimaga goes against San. He claims his ZvP is weak so San should be the favorite based on that i guess.
The other thing is Julyzerg is just so aggressive in the midgame, it's insane!
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EPT
