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Any balance whining/complaining/bad manner shit of ANY SORT is automatic temp ban. |
On March 17 2011 03:58 Logros wrote:
It's funny that no real changes were made to the TvP matchup for months but Protoss were getting rolled in the GSL the first few seasons, the previous season was a huge terranfest and now all of the sudden Protosses are owning. It seems Protoss players have found new strategies while Terrans are still just going MMM Viking. It might take a little while (took 4 seasons for Protoss) but I'm sure they'll come up with new ways to play in TvP.
No it's funny how wrong you are and base everything on statistically insignificant couple games. Terrans still own everyone on korean ladder making up 16 of top 20
Terrans still own most tounaments
Terran MVP been playing like crap and deserved to lose. He used to be #1 on ladder for weeks and now is #88. That's a HUGE slump.
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MVP just played really bad and not a TvP balance issues. I don't think i have ever see anyone that scans as much as MVP did and not kill the Obs. Somehow i think he's still in a tilt after the JulyZerg defeat. Sort of how Best is now...
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On March 17 2011 03:58 Logros wrote:
It's funny that no real changes were made to the TvP matchup for months but Protoss were getting rolled in the GSL the first few seasons, the previous season was a huge terranfest and now all of the sudden Protosses are owning. It seems Protoss players have found new strategies while Terrans are still just going MMM Viking. It might take a little while (took 4 seasons for Protoss) but I'm sure they'll come up with new ways to play in TvP.
Uhh there have been alot of changes to the matchup.
First of all various all-ins from Terran got alot weaker, thor allin isn't good anymore (scv repair change) and banshee/raven pushes are also weaker because phoenix were buffed.
Besides that GSL also has maps that favor macro games thus protoss alot.
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I honestly cannot believe these results. Just don't accept it!
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I honestly don't know why people have been so upset that past couple days with Boxer and MVP going down to Code A. If they're really that good then they'll find their way back into Code S no problem next season, not to worry. Really what is the big deal about losing one set? They still have plenty of accomplishments under their belt. If anything this gives them a good kick in the ass to try harder next season.
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On March 17 2011 04:38 Deathmanbob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:00 rysecake wrote:On March 17 2011 03:58 Logros wrote:
It's funny that no real changes were made to the TvP matchup for months but Protoss were getting rolled in the GSL the first few seasons, the previous season was a huge terranfest and now all of the sudden Protosses are owning. It seems Protoss players have found new strategies while Terrans are still just going MMM Viking. It might take a little while (took 4 seasons for Protoss) but I'm sure they'll come up with new ways to play in TvP. The new maps have alot to do with it. Give terran some time and I'm sure they will figure out a way to adapt to this new gameplay. if it is the new maps why did alica OWN on xel naga? I wont disagree i do think the bigger maps help a lot, but the protoss play style has changed to a more aggressive state seeing how terrans have started to take shortcuts to get expansions up. Soon it will switch back when terrans learn to deal with it. Its a never ending dance of who owns who
Alicia owned on xel naga cuz MVP thought it would be a good idea to tech to factory and starport, while expanding at the same time. He made only 1 hellion out of his factory and only medivacs out of his starport, barely getting out a couple of marines and marauders, not nearly enough to defend an expo and he didn't really utilize his early tech either. He decided to go a stupid build and was punished for it.
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I wonder how much this will affect MVP's TSL run? he has some tough Foreigner protosses to get through to get to the finals.
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Ok here is the thing guys. I am not trying to create a forum war or anything, just saying.
MVP had a good run is SC2, I am really happy for him, but he is not a champion material.
Before SC2 came out, anyone else notice where he was in SC1? No where. Yes he's on a pro team and yes he's on the roasters, but no he gets owned in almost every match since I started to watch SC1 Proleague. (2005ish)
Really, there is no hate from what I am saying. I am glad to see him won a GSL title, but as both old and new blood are improving every single day, I just don't see him to dominate SC2 in Korea. Maybe in NA/SEA/EU.
Now that WSG doesn't run SC1 anymore, I wonder if any of the true SC1 pros will turn into SC2 really soon. AND I'd be courious to see how they do. I particularlly kept on imagine Stork (P), JD (Z), Flash (T), and Bisu (P) in SC2. It really breaks my heart to see BoxeR goes down to code A, (Big big big fan boy) and therefore I am not shocked MVP fell as well. Yes I do realize BoxeR's domination in SC is good old times now.. but I really hope he can pick up his game in the future and brings back the return of the emperor!!
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On March 17 2011 05:36 ben01016 wrote:
Ok here is the thing guys. I am not trying to create a forum war or anything, just saying.
MVP had a good run is SC2, I am really happy for him, but he is not a champion material.
Before SC2 came out, anyone else notice where he was in SC1? No where. Yes he's on a pro team and yes he's on the roasters, but no he gets owned in almost every match since I started to watch SC1 Proleague. (2005ish)
Really, there is no hate from what I am saying. I am glad to see him won a GSL title, but as both old and new blood are improving every single day, I just don't see him to dominate SC2 in Korea. Maybe in NA/SEA/EU.
Now that WSG doesn't run SC1 anymore, I wonder if any of the true SC1 pros will turn into SC2 really soon. AND I'd be courious to see how they do. I particularlly kept on imagine Stork (P), JD (Z), Flash (T), and Bisu (P) in SC2. It really breaks my heart to see BoxeR goes down to code A, (Big big big fan boy) and therefore I am not shocked MVP fell as well. Yes I do realize BoxeR's domination in SC is good old times now.. but I really hope he can pick up his game in the future and brings back the return of the emperor!!
That`s actually not true. MvP was a great Terran in BW.
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On March 17 2011 04:46 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 03:58 Logros wrote:
It's funny that no real changes were made to the TvP matchup for months but Protoss were getting rolled in the GSL the first few seasons, the previous season was a huge terranfest and now all of the sudden Protosses are owning. It seems Protoss players have found new strategies while Terrans are still just going MMM Viking. It might take a little while (took 4 seasons for Protoss) but I'm sure they'll come up with new ways to play in TvP. No it's funny how wrong you are and base everything on statistically insignificant couple games. Terrans still own everyone on korean ladder making up 16 of top 20 Terrans still own most tounaments Terran MVP been playing like crap and deserved to lose. He used to be #1 on ladder for weeks and now is #88. That's a HUGE slump.
Ladder is becoming less and less important when you can practice with a team.
For example, why would MVP ever practice on ladder for TvZ when he has Losira and Nestea right next to him? You can play against the best of the best in an awesome practice environment.
He doesn't have access to great Protoss players (unless you count the up and coming Seed), and as such, his TvP suffers. It will be fixed as soon as IM gets quality Protoss, or their P players improve.
His TvZ and TvT are ridiculously good.
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On March 17 2011 02:38 Endorsed wrote:
Mech also has no hope. You can't prevent an extremely quick 3rd and protoss can abuse the immobility really good, also Mech isn't even that great, there are many 200/200 toss compositions who can put up an even fight. With mech you really need to crush the protoss, if you have 4 tanks left, it's not engough. He can just warp in 10 zealots. Maybe on a map like Terminus Re, but idk.
The Terrans of SC2 needs to genius of Iloovoov to figure out how to use Mech. It`s the only solution!!!
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On March 16 2011 23:13 mustache wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 21:16 dookudooku wrote:
IMMVP didn't play terrible today.
What really hurt him was his predictable builds. He used almost the exact same early game build in every single game.
Protoss players have learned to take advantage of supposedly "safe" Terran quick expansion builds through a combination of early game pressure into expansion + tech, resulting in Terrans not being able to stop Colossi attacks.
At this moment, there is no build in existence, in any match-up, that allows you to apply early pressure, defend against early pressure, get tech relatively early, and get an expansion relatively early, all at the same time. so you say toss beats terran with a build which puts on early pressure, and gets a relativley early expo with tech, but then go on to say that such a build doesnt exist in any matchup?
No I didn't. I should be clear and say that toss didn't always have early tech or early expansion, but because MVP's builds left him vulnerable to early aggression, he fell behind, making everything else irrelevant.
MVP's early expansion makes it weak in the other three areas. It's just that in the previous season his opponents didn't know how to counter it, making seem safe.
The toss builds MVP lost to weren't safe either.
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On March 17 2011 04:28 sqrt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 03:58 Logros wrote:
It's funny that no real changes were made to the TvP matchup for months but Protoss were getting rolled in the GSL the first few seasons, the previous season was a huge terranfest and now all of the sudden Protosses are owning. It seems Protoss players have found new strategies while Terrans are still just going MMM Viking. It might take a little while (took 4 seasons for Protoss) but I'm sure they'll come up with new ways to play in TvP. How about a "no"? Timing attacks have changed, in S1 and S2 Protoss players were on the defense until that deathball was ready, now we have players knocking on the door with a stalker and zealots. Upgrades timings have been refined, notice how now every upgrade is just in time? In Season 3 we were amazed that HongUn had +1 attack and +1 defence before having a second base. Colossi balls? Yeah, the attack patterns have changed completely. In S1 and S2 people a+moved into the opponent, now people try to flank in order to avoid a concave. The matchup has changed completely, this season I think I've seen a ghost in every second TvP game (if not against templars then against sentries).
That is my whole point. No BALANCE changes were made to the matchup, but it Protoss has learned to adapt with new and better strategies while Terran isn't do much else then using ghosts a bit more.
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I have a question, why are the names of the players announced by a different voice than the commentator? Why cant the announcers just say it themselves?
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Protoss has really learned how to apply early pressure very well!
And basically the only way for Terran to defend any early pressure is to go for MM into MMM/ghost/viking. If you want to go Mech, you will need that quick expansion for gas, which basically is auto loss because of the early toss pressure.
We've seen it happen in almost all PvT games this season.
The Terran fast expands - > looses so many SCV's defending an early push - > Toss turtles towards 2 base colossi and or templar tech - > Toss A-move because their army is just so much bigger each time (due to economic advantage from early pressure).
The scenario above can be applied to most of the TvP games this season in the GSL. Other examples are where Lyn's entire game was ruined by just 1 Void Ray. I mean, how are Terran supposed to prepare for such tech without knowing if it's coming.
I can't wait for the next season, to see how the Terran players will come up with some interesting strategies to deal with this situation, I am afraid however, that the units currently available just don't do it for Terran. Hope they prove me wrong!
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i think its simply wrong that Protoss are strong early, medium and late game.
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MVP looked pathetic BM's pathetically when winning the second game, But he also stayed in too long in the first game. It was sad.
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On March 17 2011 05:58 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 04:28 sqrt wrote:On March 17 2011 03:58 Logros wrote:
It's funny that no real changes were made to the TvP matchup for months but Protoss were getting rolled in the GSL the first few seasons, the previous season was a huge terranfest and now all of the sudden Protosses are owning. It seems Protoss players have found new strategies while Terrans are still just going MMM Viking. It might take a little while (took 4 seasons for Protoss) but I'm sure they'll come up with new ways to play in TvP. How about a "no"? Timing attacks have changed, in S1 and S2 Protoss players were on the defense until that deathball was ready, now we have players knocking on the door with a stalker and zealots. Upgrades timings have been refined, notice how now every upgrade is just in time? In Season 3 we were amazed that HongUn had +1 attack and +1 defence before having a second base. Colossi balls? Yeah, the attack patterns have changed completely. In S1 and S2 people a+moved into the opponent, now people try to flank in order to avoid a concave. The matchup has changed completely, this season I think I've seen a ghost in every second TvP game (if not against templars then against sentries). That is my whole point. No BALANCE changes were made to the matchup, but it Protoss has learned to adapt with new and better strategies while Terran isn't do much else then using ghosts a bit more.
The maps are a massive balance change. Many of the removed maps were very Terran-favored in TvP, and their replacements are not. Sure, there were no significant patches, but maps mean every bit as much as matches at such a high level of play. Especially when the map swing was so huge--Steppes of War replaced with Tal'Darim Altar, etc.
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First BoxeR, then Mvp. Thank GOD. Next season, code S will be much much better it seems.
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EPT
