• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:37
CET 02:37
KST 10:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win42025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Could we add "Avoid Matchup" Feature for rankgame RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou
Tourneys
Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
Ladder Map Matchup Stats BW General Discussion BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Analysis of the Trump-Lee S…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1213 users

[GOM] Team Invite - Ro8 Day 1 - Page 76

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 74 75 76 77 78 84 Next
Artisan
Profile Joined February 2010
United States336 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 11:33:21
October 14 2010 11:31 GMT
#1501
love hannibleprime's retreat micro kept picking off zealots without even getting hit =D

Edit: well not many =D every time he turned he popped a zealot though
NExt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1651 Posts
October 14 2010 11:32 GMT
#1502
On October 14 2010 20:31 Artisan wrote:
love hannibleprime's retreat micro kept picking off zealots without even getting hit =D


he lost marines ?!?!
Waiting for Protoss Jesus
Jehct
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
New Zealand9115 Posts
October 14 2010 11:32 GMT
#1503
choya choking miserably =/ if he somehow wins this I'll be amazed
"You seem to think about this game a lot"
kickazs
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway540 Posts
October 14 2010 11:32 GMT
#1504
hannibal prettyy good, good banshee micro
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 11:33:50
October 14 2010 11:32 GMT
#1505
On October 14 2010 20:28 Tevinhead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 20:25 Shikyo wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:24 Tevinhead wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:21 Shikyo wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:17 Tevinhead wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:16 yowza wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:09 Tevinhead wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:07 yowza wrote:
Why do people refer to that as cheese, because he used void rays? It was just a timing attack, wasn't a proxied stargate or an all in. If it isn't zealots and stalkers its hurr durr cheese amirite?

Cheese is a pejorative expression which refers to a strategy that is highly unconventional and designed to take one's opponent by surprise.

Minus the 'highly' I think that about sums it up.


Quoting liquipedia?

"In general, cheese is hard to beat if not scouted but easy to defeat if it is scouted."

He scouted it before the first VR was even out, responded by building addons instead of pumping marines and didn't get enough bunkers up.

"If a build order classified as Cheese fails, the player using it will usually be far behind in the game."

As it was not an all in and it wasn't pure voidrays (he had a sizable groundarmy aswell) he would have caused considerable damage even if he had been forced to retreat so again it doesn't apply here. Not to mention he would have gained map control regardless as the terran would have to turtle up.

"Finally, the usage of the term is often restricted to the victim of the "cheesy" strategy, to play down the opponent's achievement. "

Now that sounds about accurate of this situation.

He scouted it late the voidray was almost complete. And if the rush had been scouted earlier and failed I'm pretty sure the protoss was at a significant disadvantage.

-_- The thing is that the chance to deal damage is so high that there's no real way that ITR could easily have defended it even after scouting it without taking any damage and still being in a substantial lead. Do you really call a 1rax 1-marine 2-marauder with concussive an allin because you're behind if you deal no damage and lose all your units? No, because you're 99% guaranteed to deal some damage with okay micro.

I'm not calling anything 'allin'. I'm calling it cheese. If rainbow had better scout timing he could have seen the stargate building and build ample marines to make it a lot less effective. He was pretty much caught with his pants down. Although as already mentioned it was probably a bad decision to go reactor on barracks once he spotted it.

By calling something a cheese, you're calling it an allin. Please learn the terms before arguing.

Argue more than semantics before pressing 'post'. It was my understanding that 'Cheese' more specifically defines play that is unorthodox and unexpected whereas 'Allin' refers to any play that looks to end the game right there be it at the beginning or mid game with SCVs for example.

Either way, I'll agree to disagree because there's a new match on and I don't want to spam this topic arguing with you. =)..


Cheese - because of negative the connotation - is often used to describe unorthodox play that is inherently weak upon scouting, and often will die without the all-in. Otherwise, if you aren't set back because of the attack, then it was just a timing attack of sorts.

@Choya - Sending that second observer in doesn't really do that much =p
Yargh
Kokujin
Profile Joined July 2010
United States456 Posts
October 14 2010 11:32 GMT
#1506
roffles was streaming earlier but he crashed or lost power. ive taken up his torch of piracy at [am i allowed to post this?] http://www.livestream.com/kokujin
(only for those of you who cant get gom player to work-otherwise please support gom and use their player)
pyro19
Profile Joined August 2010
6575 Posts
October 14 2010 11:34 GMT
#1507
On October 14 2010 20:32 Kokujin wrote:
roffles was streaming earlier but he crashed or lost power. ive taken up his torch of piracy at [am i allowed to post this?] http://www.livestream.com/kokujin
(only for those of you who cant get gom player to work-otherwise please support gom and use their player)


Thanks man , you"re a lifesaver
Thy Shall Die Alone...or emm..something like that.
Mascherano
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Argentina1726 Posts
October 14 2010 11:34 GMT
#1508
This is where you can say somebody got outplayed.
Choya got spanked.
Bisu
foxmeep
Profile Joined July 2009
Australia2337 Posts
October 14 2010 11:34 GMT
#1509
On October 14 2010 20:32 Kokujin wrote:
roffles was streaming earlier but he crashed or lost power. ive taken up his torch of piracy at [am i allowed to post this?] http://www.livestream.com/kokujin
(only for those of you who cant get gom player to work-otherwise please support gom and use their player)


unfortunately no, you're not. especially after you mentioned it was piracy to begin with
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 14 2010 11:35 GMT
#1510
whoa what happened i just took a trip to the kitchen to grab some utensils and it was alll over
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Nu11
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada167 Posts
October 14 2010 11:35 GMT
#1511
On October 14 2010 20:34 Mascherano wrote:
This is where you can say somebody got outplayed.
Choya got spanked.


I love rainbow but he was just as outplayed as choya was here.

I wish people would stop trying to degrade the validity of the other players win vs. rainbow..
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 11:36:13
October 14 2010 11:35 GMT
#1512
On October 14 2010 20:28 Tevinhead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 20:25 Shikyo wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:24 Tevinhead wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:21 Shikyo wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:17 Tevinhead wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:16 yowza wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:09 Tevinhead wrote:
On October 14 2010 20:07 yowza wrote:
Why do people refer to that as cheese, because he used void rays? It was just a timing attack, wasn't a proxied stargate or an all in. If it isn't zealots and stalkers its hurr durr cheese amirite?

Cheese is a pejorative expression which refers to a strategy that is highly unconventional and designed to take one's opponent by surprise.

Minus the 'highly' I think that about sums it up.


Quoting liquipedia?

"In general, cheese is hard to beat if not scouted but easy to defeat if it is scouted."

He scouted it before the first VR was even out, responded by building addons instead of pumping marines and didn't get enough bunkers up.

"If a build order classified as Cheese fails, the player using it will usually be far behind in the game."

As it was not an all in and it wasn't pure voidrays (he had a sizable groundarmy aswell) he would have caused considerable damage even if he had been forced to retreat so again it doesn't apply here. Not to mention he would have gained map control regardless as the terran would have to turtle up.

"Finally, the usage of the term is often restricted to the victim of the "cheesy" strategy, to play down the opponent's achievement. "

Now that sounds about accurate of this situation.

He scouted it late the voidray was almost complete. And if the rush had been scouted earlier and failed I'm pretty sure the protoss was at a significant disadvantage.

-_- The thing is that the chance to deal damage is so high that there's no real way that ITR could easily have defended it even after scouting it without taking any damage and still being in a substantial lead. Do you really call a 1rax 1-marine 2-marauder with concussive an allin because you're behind if you deal no damage and lose all your units? No, because you're 99% guaranteed to deal some damage with okay micro.

I'm not calling anything 'allin'. I'm calling it cheese. If rainbow had better scout timing he could have seen the stargate building and build ample marines to make it a lot less effective. He was pretty much caught with his pants down. Although as already mentioned it was probably a bad decision to go reactor on barracks once he spotted it.

By calling something a cheese, you're calling it an allin. Please learn the terms before arguing.

Argue more than semantics before pressing 'post'. It was my understanding that 'Cheese' more specifically defines play that is unorthodox and unexpected whereas 'Allin' refers to any play that looks to end the game right there be it at the beginning or mid game with SCVs for example.

Either way, I'll agree to disagree because there's a new match on and I don't want to spam this topic arguing with you. =)..

Argue about more than sementics when you're arguing about nothing but sementics the entire time? What is your major malfunction?



BTW Hannibal played really well.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
bokeevboke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Singapore1674 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 11:38:54
October 14 2010 11:36 GMT
#1513
Those banshee's have so much DPS, range, cloak and decent speed.

Good play by hannibal

Edit: Cheese or not cheese. I don't understand one thing, why building cloaked banshees is a standard strategy while DTs are cheese/allin?
Its grack
susySquark
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1692 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 11:41:49
October 14 2010 11:40 GMT
#1514
On October 14 2010 20:36 bokeevboke wrote:
Those banshee's have so much DPS, range, cloak and decent speed.

Good play by hannibal

Edit: Cheese or not cheese. I don't understand one thing, why building cloaked banshees is a standard strategy while DTs are cheese/allin?



Because banshees are safe. Imagine if you could transition out of DT's into something like ravens without having to build any new structures.

DT's are a dead end for tech. Even if you dont want ravens, you can just swap your techlab over to something else and start making medivacs or vikings.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
October 14 2010 11:40 GMT
#1515
On October 14 2010 20:36 bokeevboke wrote:
Those banshee's have so much DPS, range, cloak and decent speed.

Good play by hannibal

Edit: Cheese or not cheese. I don't understand one thing, why building cloaked banshees is a standard strategy while DTs are cheese/allin?


Depends on the timing of the DTs, but generally banshees can get away a lot easier than DTs.
Yargh
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 11:43:23
October 14 2010 11:43 GMT
#1516
Now here is what we call cheese! Hannibal going for proxy rax!
Yargh
NExt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1651 Posts
October 14 2010 11:43 GMT
#1517
tooo much cheese tonight........
Waiting for Protoss Jesus
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
October 14 2010 11:44 GMT
#1518
On October 14 2010 20:36 bokeevboke wrote:
Those banshee's have so much DPS, range, cloak and decent speed.

Good play by hannibal

Edit: Cheese or not cheese. I don't understand one thing, why building cloaked banshees is a standard strategy while DTs are cheese/allin?

I guess it's because it's not exactly the same, banshees are harassing workers while void rays are destroying the whole fucking base.

Anyway rainbow made mistakes (should have focused the VR whith his bunker, should not have made that reactor and build a 2nd bunker earlier instead)
But blaming his scouting is not fair, he couldn't scout the front and had a great reaper scout. Blaming his scouting althought he scouted as soon as humanly possible isn't fair.
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
October 14 2010 11:44 GMT
#1519
That scv was so close to scout that hidden DT tech (Dark Obelisk?), hidden at the edge of another nat.
If only P would wait longer and get more Dts instead of attacking a depot

That game was so sweet. Pulling all of P forces including all Stalkers to sneak a cloaked Banshee in AND kill all of the zeals. And then keeping P in his base for good with 2 Banshees, keeping them both alive till the end of game.

Current game: TvT proxy rax fails
wwww
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
October 14 2010 11:44 GMT
#1520
Cheese has been countered with hamburgers!

Nice scouting by STX
Yargh
Prev 1 74 75 76 77 78 84 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D2
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 117
CosmosSc2 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 715
yabsab 42
NaDa 30
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm71
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1391
Foxcn168
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1906
Other Games
summit1g13738
Grubby2382
Day[9].tv547
JimRising 279
ViBE184
Maynarde150
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick905
BasetradeTV53
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH76
• Hupsaiya 57
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21656
League of Legends
• Doublelift4197
• Stunt282
Other Games
• Scarra827
• Day9tv547
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
7h 23m
OSC
10h 23m
Harstem vs SKillous
Gerald vs Spirit
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cham vs Ryung
CrankTV Team League
11h 23m
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
1d 8h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
Epic.LAN
1d 10h
CrankTV Team League
1d 11h
BASILISK vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
3 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.