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17173.com Starcraft 2 World Cup - Page 84

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 08:27:43
May 23 2010 08:27 GMT
#1661
Still no phoenix play from Protoss on DO... I really don't think Protoss players should just throw away the games like this... I mean how do you really expect to win on this map without air control?
Turbotitan
Profile Joined May 2010
China138 Posts
May 23 2010 08:30 GMT
#1662
SOW please,XiaoT
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
May 23 2010 08:34 GMT
#1663
phoenixes are only good if the zerg goes muta, if he doesnt u just set yourself behind a lot.
The strat whitera used on DO looks the best so far.
And ofc collosus generally doesnt seem to be as good as storms these days, but especially so on a map like DO where its warp in for templars instead of collosus running exposed all this distance.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 08:39:44
May 23 2010 08:39 GMT
#1664
If you use something like Nony's build, you can switch back and forth from Phoenixes as necessary. Most Zergs do go mutas on DO, if only to harass the Protoss and to keep him in his base. You must be able to harass the Zerg in return, or else he'll just macro up knowing that you can't leave your base for fear of speedlings and mutas. Phoenixes do not stop speedlings (you still need zealots for that, unfortunately), but they do stop mutas and allow you to keep the Zerg on the defense with hydras.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
May 23 2010 08:43 GMT
#1665
zergs are different now from teh times nony build worked, between multiple queens and skipping roaches to rush to hydra phoenixes mostly have 0 effect on zerg. But especially so on a map like Desert Oasis because Nonys build is coupled with ground pressure that becomes much less effective on a map liek that.

twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
May 23 2010 08:45 GMT
#1666
+ Show Spoiler +
xiaOt 2:1
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
May 23 2010 08:45 GMT
#1667
so all PvZs wil be decided by the first map?xD
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 08:46:53
May 23 2010 08:45 GMT
#1668
Xiaot wins Nice job. Once again, Cezanne over-droned and relied on roaches - not the best idea when your opponent is getting immortals. Good timing push by Xiaot to end the game, and also good job recovering from that baneling bust - that seemed to have been Cezanne's clutch strategy and once it failed, he was out of options.
madnessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1581 Posts
May 23 2010 08:46 GMT
#1669
On May 23 2010 17:45 Azarkon wrote:
Xiaot wins Nice job. Once again, Cezanne over-droned and relied on roaches - not the best idea when your opponent is getting immortals. Good timing push by Xiaot to end the game.


awesome awesome use of sentries helped of course.
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
May 23 2010 08:47 GMT
#1670
On May 23 2010 17:45 Azarkon wrote:
Xiaot wins Nice job. Once again, Cezanne over-droned and relied on roaches - not the best idea when your opponent is getting immortals. Good timing push by Xiaot to end the game.

I had the feeling he droned not enough... He should've stopped baneling pushing right after his banelings hit the probes and when xiaOt rebuild like 3 cannons. At that time if he droned more he should've won.
cuppatea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1401 Posts
May 23 2010 08:48 GMT
#1671
Pouring all his resources into that 2nd banelling bust which did absolutely NOTHING (I think he literally didn't kill a single building or unit with it) just destroyed him.
kheldorin
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore539 Posts
May 23 2010 08:49 GMT
#1672
Good defense by XiaoT and great timing push.
Prodtoss
Profile Joined May 2010
China849 Posts
May 23 2010 08:49 GMT
#1673
xiaOt!!!!!!I'm too exciting to say a word!
hydraden
Profile Joined April 2010
United States719 Posts
May 23 2010 08:50 GMT
#1674
On May 23 2010 16:05 Azarkon wrote:
My assessment of the Ro16:

Freedom vs. Dimaga: advantage to Freedom, though Dimaga pulling through is not impossible. Predict Freedom to advance.

Cezanne vs. Xiaot: advantage to Cezanne for the sole reason that 1) he's good and 2) Zergs are thought to be better in Asia. Not having seen his ZvP, however, Xiaot is a wild card. Predict Cezanne to advance.

Sen vs. Check: normally, I'd say that Sen would win this np. However, from what IdrA says Sen isn't a fan of ZvZ and doesn't practice it much. Check has a good chance of taking this one. Predict Check to advance.

Sirasoni vs. NcYellow: it's a ZvT between clan mates in a Zerg-favored region. Have to give the advantage to the Zerg, but the Terran can also take it. Hmm... Well, NcYellow lost to Sen in the qualifiers, so I still have to give a slight edge to Sirasoni. Predict Sirasoni to advance.

Cool vs. PJ: PJ was good in BW, but he's rusty in SC 2. Cool is one of the best Zergs in Korea, if not the best. Predict easy win for Cool.

TLO vs. Newlife: Along with White-Ra and Dimaga, TLO is probably the best EU player at the moment. Lately, he's been getting a lot of practice with Asian Zergs, and should be rapidly improving in that match-up. Problem is, NewLife is a Protoss, and a very good one gauging from his qualifying results. I still predict an advantage for TLO, however, simply because he's so very good with Terran and I don't think Newlife has the experience he needs to combat TLO's Terran. Predict victory for TLO.

Maka vs. Zenio: Maka is very good, and has 3-1'd Cezanne before. Zenio, while perhaps a stronger Zerg than Cezanne, has to contend with the new changes from Patch 13, which again buffed Terran. He also has Ensnare (a relatively strong Korean Terran) in his clan to practice against. This is hard to predict, but I will predict victory for Maka.

White-Ra vs. F91: From what I've seen of F91 in SC 2, he isn't practicing much. By contrast, White-Ra is practicing a lot, and has gained a huge amount of experience fighting Sen. I have to give the advantage to White-Ra. Predict victory for White-Ra.

Unfortunately for the Chinese viewers, if my predictions are correct, then no Chinese player will advance past the Ro16 But of course, there is always hope for an upset, and if anyone's going to deliver them, it'll be players like Newlife and Xiaot - who have already delivered upsets.


Nice prediction on no Chinese in round of 8.
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
May 23 2010 08:51 GMT
#1675
hydraden read more carefully, he said "But of course, there is always hope for an upset, and if anyone's going to deliver them, it'll be players like Newlife and Xiaot - who have already delivered upsets."
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 08:54:50
May 23 2010 08:53 GMT
#1676
On May 23 2010 17:43 Sfydjklm wrote:
zergs are different now from teh times nony build worked, between multiple queens and skipping roaches to rush to hydra phoenixes mostly have 0 effect on zerg. But especially so on a map like Desert Oasis because Nonys build is coupled with ground pressure that becomes much less effective on a map liek that.



Multiple queens do not really help vs. Phoenixes, because you're never going to reach the numbers needed to stop a group of Phoenixes from picking up your queens and killing them. Skipping roaches, well, I don't think Nony's strategy ever relied on the Zerg getting roaches. The point of Phoenix play is to stop the Muta harass, which, combined with speedling harass, makes it nigh impossible for a Protoss to take an expansion while still keeping pressure on the Zerg.

On DO, your natural is just too open to speedlings (no choke points), while your main is too open to air. Taking a third is even more difficult as it requires map control, which Protoss simply does not have with both mutas and speedlings running around. Phoenixes help alleviate that and I think a strategy can be concocted that will allow the Protoss to compete.

In any case, it's either that or proxy zealots/void rays and if that fails, auto-lose to Zerg.
Prodtoss
Profile Joined May 2010
China849 Posts
May 23 2010 08:54 GMT
#1677
xiaOt beat Check and Gerrad in ASM1#, so why you guys think that he can't beat Korea zerg?
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
May 23 2010 08:56 GMT
#1678
On May 23 2010 17:54 Prodtoss wrote:
xiaOt beat Check and Gerrad in ASM1#, so why you guys think that he can't beat Korea zerg?


Nobody said he can't, but to say that he's the favorite against a player like Cezanne (which your fellow countrymen put at A+) isn't exactly realistic, wouldn't you agree?
Turbotitan
Profile Joined May 2010
China138 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 08:59:20
May 23 2010 08:59 GMT
#1679
what happens to Dimaga?
Prodtoss
Profile Joined May 2010
China849 Posts
May 23 2010 09:00 GMT
#1680
On May 23 2010 17:56 Azarkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2010 17:54 Prodtoss wrote:
xiaOt beat Check and Gerrad in ASM1#, so why you guys think that he can't beat Korea zerg?


Nobody said he can't, but to say that he's the favorite against a player like Cezanne (which your fellow countrymen put at A+) isn't exactly realistic, wouldn't you agree?


yup,I'm so nervous when xiaOt match-up with Cezzane
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