When people say "macro better", they don´t necessarily mean that you are bad with pressing (if you are zerg you'll understand) "5" (hatches) +sdddddd or 5srrrrrzzzz to make units. It's often that you don't utilize your economy vs. your unit output. If you look at someone like NesTea (3-time -I think- GSL Champion), he mass up drones and get a huge economy. But as soon as the protoss (for example) moves out, he can make 20-30 roaches and hydras that has 2/2 and speed/range and moved burrow.
A lot comes down to always be able to balance it as much as possible, not to get 5000 minerals and 200 gas, or even worse 5000 minerals and 3000 gas, or being starved of resources.
I tried this for a couple of games, and suddenly (in bronze at first) I got a 27-3 win ratio and just massed up a huge army, and as soon as it died, I had in about 30 seconds, a new 200/200 army. Even now in low platinum, I can survive really annoying timing-pushes vs. Terran, just because I balance my macro with scouting.
The only things I can think of that you need to consider while macroing: Cloaked units/burrow Timing pushes from 1-2 bases Cheese Getting out-macroed Flying units
What I'm trying to say is that as long as you scout, have a basic idea of unit composition (not massing zerglings vs. siege tanks and mmm or Collosi) and know a bit what to look out for (going double gas or 2rax, etc.), you should be able to win games up to plat/dia just by macro (and small amounts of micro).
It's all about balancing your macro with economy and unit production depending on what your goal is and what your opponent does.
I've gotten back into SC2 this season with a friend of mine drawing me back in. I was a not-bottom-of-the-barrel player back in S1. I got to high silver and was fighting (and losing) against golds. After coming back in and seeing things like 1-1-1 had become popular with Terrans as a "do everything" I tried it out in my placement matches and got solidly wiped out put back into bronze.
After coming in and reading the strategy section I decided to try something. Every game I'm going to be continually building SCVs except for 16 orbital command. One gas. Every rax should have a unit queue. Every time I get 150 minerals build another rax. Basically run as close to good macro as I can.
5 minutes later I'm sitting there with four raxes, two of them teched, two of them reactor, a MM ball of death and running over to stomp the enemy.
I'm currently 3-0.
To everyone that says "macro better"; thank you. You were right and I'm much better for it. I still have plenty of time to worry about new strategy on my push up through bronze through silver but for now I'm going to concentrate 100% on practising macro until I get to gold or even further (if I get there). Then I can worry about strategies like 1-1-1.
The problem I have with the "work on macro" statement is two fold.
The main issue is that players generally don't learn this way, you will rarely find a player who has impeccable macro but terrible strategy & micro, a player generally doesn't improve one skill at a time but instead develops all their skills in unison, so asking a player to "macro harder" is essentially asking them to be a better player/develop all their skills more - I can't imagine a gold leaguer getting diamond league macro after receiving the advice to "macro harder".
The second issue though is that macro and micro are natural skills that can't be taught, but come with experience, they are the consequence of a good player not the catalyst, you can't 'give' someone good macro for their next games like you can with a strategy or a build, so in conjunction with the first issue by saying 'macro better' you really are simply saying 'play more games' which most semi-intelligent players know already anyway.
So ultimately I think if any advice is to be useful it is game strategy and knowledge because those are things you can learn and take with you in to the next game, where macro & micro are simply natural skills that develop over time and realistically aren't going to be excellent if the player's other skills are lacking due to the way players learn.
On October 12 2011 10:37 karis wrote: how do you scout for expos as terran and how often should you do it?
I lost a game because I got an early lead and took the gold as my 3rd then just macro'd and he took his entire side of the map.
also how fast should the third and later bases be put down in a normal game where nothing weird happens?
I am a protoss player so i cannot say anything specific to the terran race, but i can give you some general advice.
Well as any race there are a few "trends" to scouting. You can do any of the following
1. Literally just send a worker/first attacking unit around the map to scout for any bases.
2. By putting pressure on your opponent ( a small force of marines and mauraders for example) you can make an intelligent assumption of his resource spending (I.E if he has a lot of units to defend he won't have money to expand or if he has little units to defend he could be expanding or teching)
3. This is my personal favorite. Drops or air play. This is useful against anyone, but extremely effective vs Zerg. Normally you cannot send out an scv or marine alone without it being picked off by roaming zerglings, or just being spotted by creep spread and overlords. By sending out a medivac with some marines, or a banshee (doesn't even need cloak honestly) you can scout and punish expansions, while being able to retreat and save your units.
Those being said for general scouting techniques, the expanding part on your side is completely situational. When you say normal do you mean "Unless he 6 pools me or cannon rushes me" or "If he doesn't do a fast expand". That is one of the hard parts of this game, being able to read your opponents strategy and adjusting yours accordingly to it. Some games he will do early aggression which should cause you to expand later, and some games he will play super macro causing you to either expand early or set up a timing attack. It really revolves around the each game and map.
You would have to ask a terran on this, but i think that scanning to scout for bases should be a last resort (that is for scouting new bases, i think it is perfectly fine for scouting tech structures in his main).
At your level DO NOT be afraid to throw away 200 minerals worth of marines thoughout the game to scout an opponents base, sub masters if your mechanics are alright then it won't even be close to losing you a game.
If you would like to post the replay then i would be happy to look at it and give tips regarding that game in particular.
I had posted a bit earlier in this thread, and recently at a Toronto BarCraft had the opportunity to met a player who had just started playing, he was literally doing his placement matches the day of the NASL Finals.
In just 1 week He's already playing with a lot better macro and winning games over other bronze players just due to out producing them.
I just today did a commentary video noting areas for improvement and stuff on his game, but I wanted to show this since it really does to me demonstrate how better macro wins.
I think the unit composition in this game is wrong, the engagements are not ideal, and he's behind a base basically the whole way. His macro is far from perfect, but I think this just shows the benefits of out-producing your opponent.
On December 30 2011 03:47 Shruikan998 wrote: Could someone please type me out a decent protoss build strategy? including when to expand and when to attack? ?
EPT
?
