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Introduction
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Have you ever watched zerg players drone up to 70 on 3 bases then miraculously defend your 7 gate all-in with perfect timing on unit production?
How would you like to do that against Terrans while getting the most OP ability in the game?
With this build, we focus on harassing the opponent early with blink stalkers, or occasionally DTs, then expand behind and quickly tech to storm or charge in time for incoming attacks. Once such an attack is held, you will be in a commanding lead, and if the Terran aims instead to play a more passive macro game, blink stalkers and greedy expansions will give you the leverage you need going into the late game.
Build Order
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9 Pylon
13 Gateway
14 Assimilator
15 Pylon
Typically I send the scouting probe around here. I want to send the probe early enough to send the zealots to the correct base, but I also want as many minerals as possible. If we scout on 9 in order to see gas/no gas, we lose quite a lot of minerals, and I do not feel that it helps very much, as our opponent's build becomes transparent with the zealot+stalker harass
Upon completion of the gateway, produce a zealot, then a cyber core, then another zealot and then a stalker. Use 3 chronos on the units. The primary goal here is to prevent or delay a 1 rax FE, though any other harassment is good as well.
23 Pylon
28 Assimilator
30 Twilight Council
31 Gateway
At this point we must react strongly to what we are scouting from our opponent.
Possible Responses
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-Against gasless 1 rax FE (see only marines, very fast CC and bunker is typical), you can generally delay the expansion and kill a few scvs and marines with your 2 zealot+1 stalker pressure. Assuming you did damage, you can get blink quickly and take your expansion after warping in 4-5 blink stalkers. Add a robo after to get obs for harassing, then get charge ASAP and add 2-3 more gates and forge(s). Robo is not 100% necessary here.
If they have the bunker in time and you do not delay them at all, I think the best response is to expand very quickly and rush storm. Get a forge early and stall any pushes with blink stalkers while throwing up 3-5 cannons. See game against Rain for an example (the cannons were a little late this game).
-Against marauder FE (typically 1 marine+1 marauder when your first zealot arrives, and they are on low ground with an scv or bunker making), be more cautious with pressure, and you can take your expansion more quickly, before the 2nd gateway is finished. Against this it is very difficult to delay the expansion at all, but their expansion is later and it is safer to expand quickly yourself, as you can get a fast DT shrine rather than blink. They will not have a raven out for a long time, and if they save many scans it will slow them even further.
Often against marauder FE I feel that it is safe to double expand behind the DTs and then get charge and get on 7+ gates very quickly
-Against 2 rax pressure, don't lose units trying to harass, and produce a few extra units before attempting to expand. Usually I think robo before expanding here is safe, as the obs will help a lot and immortals are very strong as well. Alternatively, make a 3rd and 4th gate and a lot of units and kill them.
-Against 1-1-1 (you see bunker at ramp, only marines), get robo after starting blink, play safely with stalkers (i.e., keep them and the obs close enough to your base to defend well against banshees. Expand quickly and rush storm and get a total of 4+ gates.
Later On
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Make lots of obs! Until the late game when you add a 2nd robo and robo bay to start pumping collossi, you do not need to use the robo to produce many immortals. Use this time to make a lot of observers so that you can ward off drops and hidden expansions.
Use blink throughout the game to harass and control the map. With blink stalkers and lots of observers, you can constantly harass any terran army safely, picking off medivacs and marines as they traverse the map, or blinking into their main and picking off supply depots and scvs.
Use HT to feedback incoming medivacs. This makes drops far less potent, and between this and blink, you can clean up drops and other harass very easily.
Some Micro Tips
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With blink stalkers, you can be very aggressive since terran cannot catch blink stalkers without using multiple stims. Against marauders and banshees you can dodge the projectile, so you can move in, shoot, then blink as soon as your stalkers shoot to avoid taking any damage. Against tanks and marines this is not possible.
Also, when poking up ramps, right after you start being shot, blink the first 2-3 stalkers back and then the rest back a little afterward. This way your leading stalkers will not take much damage but the rest of your stalkers will still be able to get off a few shots.
On maps with a lot of cliffs, try to abuse blink to take the shortest path possible when moving around with blink stalkers.
Replays
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EDIT: Added another game vs 2 rax. I completely fell apart in the midgame after I had my units positioned poorly, but it shows that you are at worst ok going into the midgame.
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Thanks for the guide!
In your 2rax pressure replay, the terran doesn't wall and lets you see 2rax while losing his scv to zealots, and then goes for some sort of 2/1/1 without shields or concussive. Could you give us a replay of a terran actually engaging you with his 2rax pressure while expanding behind that?
Also, what do you do against the 1-1-1 allin? Do you expand faster against it? Would you still get blink (the general consensus from the two guides on these forums is that stalkers are bad, and so getting blink isn't optimal)?
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I like how you come up with so many builds all the time 
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what's the point of early council really? blink is not a gamechanging ability in PvT as it sucks against any build with heavy marauder usage in it. Skimping on sentries is also too risky really.
Blink shouldn't be rushed in PvT except for the blink stalker opening which is only good against the gasless expo imo. Fast twilight play is immensely behind against any 2 rax play etc.
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On August 21 2011 07:55 Markwerf wrote:
what's the point of early council really? blink is not a gamechanging ability in PvT as it sucks against any build with heavy marauder usage in it. Skimping on sentries is also too risky really.
Blink shouldn't be rushed in PvT except for the blink stalker opening which is only good against the gasless expo imo. Fast twilight play is immensely behind against any 2 rax play etc.
Against any kind of 1-1-1 variation with either banshees or hellions blink is very strong. Against reactor/techlab 2 rax they are pretty marine heavy, and same with most 3-4 rax pressure after gasless expand.
I haven't had any problems skimping on sentries with this build. It is very difficult to pressure with 2 rax cross map against 4-6 blink stalkers which kill a marine or damage a marauer every 10 seconds as you are pushing, and delay any push by quite a bit.
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Want to try this out vs my friend?
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On August 21 2011 07:38 greggy wrote:
Thanks for the guide!
In your 2rax pressure replay, the terran doesn't wall and lets you see 2rax while losing his scv to zealots, and then goes for some sort of 2/1/1 without shields or concussive. Could you give us a replay of a terran actually engaging you with his 2rax pressure while expanding behind that?
Also, what do you do against the 1-1-1 allin? Do you expand faster against it? Would you still get blink (the general consensus from the two guides on these forums is that stalkers are bad, and so getting blink isn't optimal)?
I included a replay against 1-1-1 and some comments about what to do vs 1-1-1. In my experience I never have any trouble getting storm in time (except one game I accidentally warped in a HT before I started researching storm).
TBH I don't have any particularly good replays against 2 rax. I have many games where I kill a lot of their marines with early zealots before the marauder is out (against reactor first 2 rax), or they do not try to be aggressive. I think most terrans are not going to be aggressive after scouting you chrono boosting 3 units out of your gateway, since going up the ramp blind in that spot is dangerous. Also, as you can see in some of the replays, I build a sentry before or after I start blink if I feel that it is necessary.
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On August 21 2011 08:07 iamke55 wrote:
Want to try this out vs my friend?
Sure. vVvTime.316
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I was doing a similar to this build shown by JYP vs Taeja
standart 2 gas CB stalker + core
zealot -> stalker -> stalker
robo around 4:40
5:20 twilight
then he went for 5:55 3 more gates and following with 4 gate + blink + obs
Definitely going to watch the replays and experiment with the build thanks
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that storm in the 1-1-1 replay just absolutely crushed lol! The problem is if you do manage to get the 1 storm ready in time, i feel like if he just snaps it off with a well micro'd banshee and you invested so much in that one high temp. Worst case u can feedback the banshee though but now you have no storm. You are so tight on gas too that you really cant find time to build another high temp and wait for another storm. You had alot of other units though and killed off alot with the 4 stalkers so i think you would have been fine in this game but not sure if its viable long term but i like the idea and i think i will experiment with it as well.
another few things
1) the 2 zealot 1 stalker push i feel like cant be that effective if he walls initially. I watched a few mc replays in a row and noticed if there was a wall he'd skip the zealot but if no wall he'd always get it. He even cancelled the zealot when it was halfway built after scouting the wall a little late. all it does is delay your expo. watching a few of your replays you definitely dont do any damage really vs a bunker or a wall off. still not sure how i feel about delaying wg and expo for a few more units to sit around.
2) the biggest thing i am going to take from your games is omg your 4 blink stalkers do SO much damage each game. not only that but it gives you great scouting and great early harass with an early obs as well. The only problem could be if he gets a cloaked banshee to ur base u now have to rush to get another obs and invest in more stalkers vs terran which i dont love either. have you had any problems with this? i dont feel like you can scout for cloak research due to delayed robo either so it seems like ur gonna auto lose a good amount of probes while dealing with this. Maybe u go for a 2nd obs if u see a severe lack of units?
3) since ur aggro with ur zealot zealot stalker i feel like he can walk freely into ur base while ur being aggro. some things u can do is either hide ur twilight council or maybe wall ur ramp and use a probe on hold pos/pray he doesnt mineral click past in time idk
other than those i really like the idea of this build. buys you alot of time and gets great scouting information while doing damage. you can tech switch super easy since u basically go 2 gate twilight robo. there were a few non build problems i saw in the game like army positioning and where you decide to fight, along with delayed 2nd and 3rd bases but id imagine this is due to the constant 4 stalker micro. if anything this should help you multi task more which is something ive been looking to work on.
thx for the reps and the build i will be for sure taking that early 4 stalker blink play god thats sexy and seems so annoying for terran
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When do you get the robotoics facility? Wouldn't you just straight up die to a cloaked banshee because of having no detection? Is there a forge timing that you have for detection?
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On August 21 2011 08:48 drybones wrote:
1) the 2 zealot 1 stalker push i feel like cant be that effective if he walls initially. I watched a few mc replays in a row and noticed if there was a wall he'd skip the zealot but if no wall he'd always get it. He even cancelled the zealot when it was halfway built after scouting the wall a little late. all it does is delay your expo. watching a few of your replays you definitely dont do any damage really vs a bunker or a wall off. still not sure how i feel about delaying wg and expo for a few more units to sit around.
Is there a reason you want WG faster? I just tested some games with NGry and unless you lose a lot of zealots stupidly or can't blink micro well you should never die to 2 rax.
Without taking the second assimilator earlier, you cannot have blink faster, and I don't feel that you can safely expand before blink or DTs are out. Many games the early zealots and stalker do no damage, but with this particular build I don't think that there is a more efficient way to spend your money early game.
Other people can of course do w/e they want in the opening, and I doubt it's the only way to play it, but I have found the zealots and stalker pressure to be very effective.
2) the biggest thing i am going to take from your games is omg your 4 blink stalkers do SO much damage each game. not only that but it gives you great scouting and great early harass with an early obs as well. The only problem could be if he gets a cloaked banshee to ur base u now have to rush to get another obs and invest in more stalkers vs terran which i dont love either. have you had any problems with this? i dont feel like you can scout for cloak research due to delayed robo either so it seems like ur gonna auto lose a good amount of probes while dealing with this. Maybe u go for a 2nd obs if u see a severe lack of units?
When I see bunker at the ramp I 90% assume they are going 1-1-1. If no bunker at the ramp you can almost always just walk up with 2 zealots and get good scouting to see the 1-1-1. In this case I am much less agressive, keeping the observer at home and warping in stalkers when the banshee comes, or making a second observer. It depends on the map and what I am seeing whether or not I bring the first obs to put pressure on.
Also, on some maps you can take the towers with your zealots and put stalkers around the rest of the map and catch banshees on the way to your base. Most notably, on xel'naga it's basically impossible for terran to sneak banshees to your base if you are positioned correctly.
3) since ur aggro with ur zealot zealot stalker i feel like he can walk freely into ur base while ur being aggro. some things u can do is either hide ur twilight council or maybe wall ur ramp and use a probe on hold pos/pray he doesnt mineral click past in time idk
Yeah, sometimes my stalker kills their first scv sometimes it doesn't. I mostly don't care if they see the twilight, though I know some protoss players like to rely heavily on deception.
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Can u post more replays vs good executed 1-1-1.. This terran screwed totally everything + no wall and zealots did a ton of dmg + his units dying unnecessary + the storm killed all his marines lol.. I don't think on his play can be based whether or not this build counters 1-1-1 or not..
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what happened in the game between you and iamke's friend?
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On August 21 2011 09:12 Shankapotamus wrote:
what happened in the game between you and iamke's friend?
I have not been contacted by his friend.
I'll upload more replays of 1-1-1 builds when I play against them. I have a few really sloppy games against 1-1-1, but probably those wouldn't convince anyone that it works any more than the one I already uploaded, so I'll wait till I have better ones.
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Time I think you saved my life, thank you thank you thank you... I just dropped about 200 ladder points in the span of 2 days to mostly Terran. I was doing a 14 gate 1z 2s push and then expoing behind it, but skipping blink and going to storm with cannons... most of the time I either don't have enough sentries or I couldnt pressure back to stop/stall his expansion. Again thanks, I use this it's very smart
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just a quick question... if you open 2gate twilight into robo, how do you decide to get high temp or colli next? Is there a specific mixture u are looking for in terrans army?
I think ghosts would be the only decider in choosing but even then, id imagine colli does better vs ghosts than high temp in large numbers but in small numbers i have to figure its easy to get 1 or 2 feedbacks off and destroy his investment completely.
Also, while playing around with this build, i am struggling to figure out when to add more gates and when exactly to expo. These seem to be more based off feel whereas a 3gate or 1 gate expand lends itself perfectly on when to expo and when to get a certain # of gates.
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dude you are a god! This build is fuckin ridiculously good and I did it poorly my god. that early pressure is gross x10 vs almost anything and vs 1/1/1 terran just lose like seriously this is fuckin amazing I delayed for so long I had time for charge and 3 hts like fuck dude. You are my hero.
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On August 21 2011 07:21 vVvTime wrote:
as our opponent's build becomes transparent with the zealot+stalker harass
dont post generaly misleading stuff in a strategy forum properly seen what is going on you will be blind of what terran is doing you cant break that pokerface.
Other then that GL with ur build is something else but nothing safe use it on ur own danger.
User was temp banned for this post.
User was forum banned for this post.
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This build looks really cool, I will have to try it out! I do have a lot of experience with the DT variant against FE builds though, and on that part I will have to disagree with you about being safe to double expand. After the terran stabilizes from your DTs, 90% of the time he's going to come and attack you. I find that the 3rd base just doesn't pay off in time to help defend against that attack. I think it's better to just go on 7+ gates off 2 base with charge asap, and only after you get a nice chargelot/archon army then should you expand again. The other thing with double expanding is that another common reaction to DTs is to go straight to heavy drop play, and extending yourself on 3 bases before you have a lot of infrastructure/army is going to give you a really tough time in defending.
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I love this guide. Blink Stalker harass is so fun . Do you think Archons would be a good part of the late-game army composition? It falls into the tech path this build revolves around, is powerful against MMM, and I always find it refreshing to use a Massive unit that isn't always Colossus. Other than that, thanks for creating this.
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On August 23 2011 02:56 edc wrote:I love this guide. Blink Stalker harass is so fun . Do you think Archons would be a good part of the late-game army composition? It falls into the tech path this build revolves around, is powerful against MMM, and I always find it refreshing to use a Massive unit that isn't always Colossus. Other than that, thanks for creating this.
You don't want more than 2 archons... chances are the first engagement you use with them you won't beat the Terran, and by the time you engage again, if you are on archons still, he will most assuredly have 3+ ghosts and just emp them... If you have more than 2 like I said, you will just watch as all that gas evaporates to mmmg, and he will already know to go ghosts because you revealed templar tech a while ago
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Closest I've ever been to defending a 1-1-1 with this. I mean. It didn't, but Maybe I could've.
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On August 23 2011 03:00 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 02:56 edc wrote:I love this guide. Blink Stalker harass is so fun . Do you think Archons would be a good part of the late-game army composition? It falls into the tech path this build revolves around, is powerful against MMM, and I always find it refreshing to use a Massive unit that isn't always Colossus. Other than that, thanks for creating this. You don't want more than 2 archons... chances are the first engagement you use with them you won't beat the Terran, and by the time you engage again, if you are on archons still, he will most assuredly have 3+ ghosts and just emp them... If you have more than 2 like I said, you will just watch as all that gas evaporates to mmmg, and he will already know to go ghosts because you revealed templar tech a while ago
Wait what? Archons are awesome and add some much-needed DPS against a bioball when the only other units you have are chargelots. What else are you going to spend your gas on? Yes ghost play is good against chargelot/archon but it's just the standard response and doesn't "counter" it. When you get to super late game and the terran has like infinity ghosts then you can transition into double or triple robo colossus, but archons are always good...
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Can't download the 2rax pressure replay. It gives me 404 error.
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On August 23 2011 03:38 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 03:00 tehemperorer wrote:On August 23 2011 02:56 edc wrote:I love this guide. Blink Stalker harass is so fun . Do you think Archons would be a good part of the late-game army composition? It falls into the tech path this build revolves around, is powerful against MMM, and I always find it refreshing to use a Massive unit that isn't always Colossus. Other than that, thanks for creating this. You don't want more than 2 archons... chances are the first engagement you use with them you won't beat the Terran, and by the time you engage again, if you are on archons still, he will most assuredly have 3+ ghosts and just emp them... If you have more than 2 like I said, you will just watch as all that gas evaporates to mmmg, and he will already know to go ghosts because you revealed templar tech a while ago Wait what? Archons are awesome and add some much-needed DPS against a bioball when the only other units you have are chargelots. What else are you going to spend your gas on? Yes ghost play is good against chargelot/archon but it's just the standard response and doesn't "counter" it. When you get to super late game and the terran has like infinity ghosts then you can transition into double or triple robo colossus, but archons are always good...
dont forget though, if he has a low ghost count you can always leave a few as high templar for feedback, for example since you will have so many observers you can see his army movement and have ht in place to feedback all of his ghosts making the archons even better
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I think this is pretty awesome and I watched the replays but a few thing worries me.
How do you dealth with a fake gasless expand into 1-1-1? Since you are not getting a fast robo vs this I think cloaked banshees could be a problem (Ever fought ghost cloak rush with this build? Not that it's common but it's similar to the banshees : p) Also I believe it's very risky to fast tech storm like that vs 1-1-1 as you basically have to kill the marines with very few storms.
And against what builds to you take 2 bases behind DTs? Only expands with marauder? <-- This is the part I really like as I have experimented with it in the past with less success.
How do you deal with weirder builds such as sky terran or mech when you are teching storm? Do you cancel it and get other things?
Ok I will refrain from asking too much
Edit: Yeah I think some of these questions has been asked already...
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On August 23 2011 05:44 Latedi wrote:How do you deal with weirder builds such as sky terran or mech when you are teching storm? Do you cancel it and get other things? Ok I will refrain from asking too much Edit: Yeah I think some of these questions has been asked already...
Storm crushes sky terran, so that's not really an issue.
Against mech blink is imba. Hellions get shut down and tanks are not very good at dealing with blink stalkers as they're not very mobile.
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You're pretty much the guy that supports me with a new build to have fun with on the ladder every week. Great stuff, will try it out!
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You're a legend Time. I use your PvZ and PvT now.
Thanks for all this!
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On August 23 2011 02:55 Anihc wrote:
This build looks really cool, I will have to try it out! I do have a lot of experience with the DT variant against FE builds though, and on that part I will have to disagree with you about being safe to double expand. After the terran stabilizes from your DTs, 90% of the time he's going to come and attack you. I find that the 3rd base just doesn't pay off in time to help defend against that attack. I think it's better to just go on 7+ gates off 2 base with charge asap, and only after you get a nice chargelot/archon army then should you expand again. The other thing with double expanding is that another common reaction to DTs is to go straight to heavy drop play, and extending yourself on 3 bases before you have a lot of infrastructure/army is going to give you a really tough time in defending.
For the most part it is safe to double expand off this. I think it was Kowi who did this to a couple of times to me, and it is insanely hard to punish -_-
And Time is good people, trust him :D :D :D
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That timing was absolutely perfect though. The HT had just enough energy to storm as the marines hit. It can definately hold the 1-1-1 although I don't know if your average player is to be able to do it; I'm certain I would screw it up around 50% of the time.
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You mention in the replay section that you almost always do this on non-Tal Darim maps, why not on that map? My gold level game knowledge doesn't provide me an obvious answer -___-
Other than that this build is really cool, and actually a ton of fun, especially with that blink harass.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Been doing something similar in some games but only got council after 3 gate + some stalkers, then expoed.
Against a 1 rax FE it seemed pretty much like an auto win because he just cannot kill your units (blink 'em back one by one obv.) - even if he has one bunker he won't stop it.
=> Terran has to scout that and make some moar bunkers or he's fucked, if he doesn't have a bunker he's fucked as well.
And 1 rax FE is the only thing that really puts you behind if Terran somehow gets through with it.
But you seem to have put a lot more thought into this than I did, so I'd say this is a pretty neat buildorder. ;P
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My question is, if you scout them going for a 2 rax, then why would you want to use this build at all? If your opponent is 2 raxing on a cross position map you can almost always 1 gate expo, and on close spawns you can 2 gate expo. If you scout 1-1-1 then this build might be pretty good, but in general i feel like the opening could use work, however, i agree that the concept of defending with HT and harassing with blinkstalker/dt is really strong.
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On August 21 2011 09:14 vVvTime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 09:12 Shankapotamus wrote:
what happened in the game between you and iamke's friend? I have not been contacted by his friend. I'll upload more replays of 1-1-1 builds when I play against them. I have a few really sloppy games against 1-1-1, but probably those wouldn't convince anyone that it works any more than the one I already uploaded, so I'll wait till I have better ones.
Really looking forward to this. This build is pretty amazing, but I really question the ability to stop a good 1-1-1. This Terran made several macro errors, and didn't invest in a Raven, Cloak, or Siege Mode, and he could have easily afforded any of 2 of those 3, given that he had 443 gas at the end of the replay.
Also the Blink Stalkers did tons of damage and got free kills when they shouldn't have.
Finally, Storm was the real key piece to holding this push, but how does it do against a quicker 1-1-1 push, that hits around 9 minutes, like the one Namhcir tried to pull on OptikZero at Colombus?
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Only thing I dont get, is how you would deal with a 3rax push. It looks like the Marauder FE from the front, your zealot would arrive see one marine and a marauder, concussive finishing around that time. you'd do very little damage with Zealzeal stalker, and by the time your blink finishes you'd have 4 stalkers 2 zealots, against a Stimming MM ball. I like the way this looks against any sort of FE build, or Tech build, but i cant see it holding off a 1 base 3rax push.
I'm not by any means experienced enough to say this WOULDNT work, just wondering how you'd react
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Interesting. I have not really experimented with a quick Twilight Council vs Terran, unless it's versus a no gas expand.
I think you do not have to hide it like you seem to do. In fact, I would say as much as it might actually be better to put it in plain sight and let it be scouted. I'm pretty sure 90% of Terran will expect a DT rush when you get such a quick Twilight Council and will either try to kill you before you have them or invest into Turrets / Raven. Only versus a no gas expand you probably want to hide it as they know it'll lead to Blink Stalkers which you are indeed going to make.
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Every time i see a twilight i expect faster speedlots then blink. This causes me to go into BFH build. When i open w/ FE i rarely die to DTS because i get my Ebay up for 1/0 fast and a turret at bunkers.
Unless they are using WP and i dont have a scan i'm usually fine. I could see this paying off against someone like me who is assuming charge lots into archon/HTemplars
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and yeah, if you can fix the 2Rax replay, it doesnt work, and i keep losing to it
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On August 23 2011 02:45 Serashin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 07:21 vVvTime wrote:
as our opponent's build becomes transparent with the zealot+stalker harass
dont post generaly misleading stuff in a strategy forum properly seen what is going on you will be blind of what terran is doing you cant break that pokerface. Other then that GL with ur build is something else but nothing safe use it on ur own danger. User was temp banned for this post.User was forum banned for this post.
unless he replaces the rax with a bunker which he wont be able to do unless he wants zealots walking into his base you can easily see exactly what hes doing with the pressure and do some huge damage. try it a few times :D
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Idk how safe it is against 1-1-1, your expansion just seems so late, I think expecting/scouting possible 1-1-1 it's be better to expo off 1 gate at ~30 before 2nd gate or twilight.
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On August 24 2011 04:10 Lobber wrote:
Idk how safe it is against 1-1-1, your expansion just seems so late, I think expecting/scouting possible 1-1-1 it's be better to expo off 1 gate at ~30 before 2nd gate or twilight.
its safe against 1-1-1 because it has AoE, aka storm, and without stim marines dont dodge storm very quckly, it also has feedbacks for the raven/banshees i would argue that templar tech is the true answer to the 1-1-1 charge + storm if you can get it out in time just wrecks 1-1-1 and after that you have ARCHONS vs guaranteed no ghosts
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how'd i do?
http://replayfu.com/r/26Qtcp
i saw the 2 racks opening and immed backed off with zeal zeal stalker. i even let him see the twilight so he'd think id go dt's
dunno why he went ghost but i got leg speed instead of sentries to stay alive vs it and then went right into colli to force him to not make medivacs.
as you can see the 4 stalkers maybe didnt do a ton of damage but they forced a few stims and im sure were just annoying.
You probably mentioned it but, i like going nexus before robo if i see any marauders but robo first if its all marines. also to answer my own question from before, colli > temps vs ghost so i liked my transition there.
and i know i got supply blocked at 26, that one i forget sometimes. I just gassed sooner which actually worked out well cause i had 200 gas for 2 sentries which faded the emps luckily lol. I should have spread more for that fight as well and the blink back was kinda bad.
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Broken 2-rax replay link, fix it please! Your builds are generally good and id love to see this.
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Nice, replayfu!
Nobody seems to use replayfu, but I think its the best place to upload them 
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On August 24 2011 05:05 Smoodish wrote:
Broken 2-rax replay link, fix it please! Your builds are generally good and id love to see this.
I uploaded a different 2 rax replay. The ones there now are against my teammate NGry. In one of them he does a really aggressive 2 rax with some scvs pulled, and the other he doesn't engage up the ramp.
@drybones, I think you played it pretty well. Biggest mistakes I noticed were not producing probes enough when you had the resources to, and not making observers. During the time that the robo bay was building, you could have made 1-2 more observers. You had the gas to do this, and I think they would be really helpful against drops and just generally to see where his army is at all times.
Also I've found that drops are very difficult to deal with since your stalkers are always out on the map harassing, so you need to keep zealots+sentries in the main to deal with drops until you see him moving out.
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how do you deal with cloak banshees ?
vs. a terran that does not reaveal unnecessary information to you?
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having a lot of trouble with this vs seige tanks, rather not send replays since i BM real hard at the end, had a bad day :/ but with fast seige into expand, blink cant do any damage, then you're left with few units and greedy tech. What do you recomend to do against a fast factory with tech lab, as soon as that tank comes out it starts eating stalkers
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What do you think of 3 gate blink stalkers vs 2 rax reactor first pressure? If you cut a round of units you can expand, destroy their push, and sometimes outright win the game. If you scout the reactor first by chance, do you think it's possible to deviate and just throw up 2 gates and chrono out blink?
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how well does this build deal vs with a build with fast ghosts, which ive heard is becoming a popular strat.
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On August 24 2011 07:03 polysciguy wrote:
how well does this build deal vs with a build with fast ghosts, which ive heard is becoming a popular strat.
in my replay above thats what my guy went. he did ghosts b4 expand and tried a timing push. I delayed the push, induced a stim with my blink stalks and then had leg speed in time. i guess with less time to react i would have to jsut have a good spread and lots of zeals.
the benefit of this build is that it isnt sentry heavy which gets crushed by fast ghost so that alone should be a good enough answer
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Tried this out and it seemed to work well......until I got smashed by pure marine banshee I cleaned up the ground force but the banshees wrecked me to be fair I shouldn't have expanded twice once I realized he was onebasing but 1 how do I react to a 3rax if I scout it and how many stalkers am I supposed to make
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I would also like to know what your plan is against cloaked banshees.
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On August 25 2011 00:59 polysciguy wrote:
Tried this out and it seemed to work well......until I got smashed by pure marine banshee I cleaned up the ground force but the banshees wrecked me to be fair I shouldn't have expanded twice once I realized he was onebasing but 1 how do I react to a 3rax if I scout it and how many stalkers am I supposed to make
This isn't for 3rax, if you see 3rax you shouldn't be getting a twilight council any time soon.
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I feel that a lot of the questions in this thread are nonsensical, and it's because people seem to not understand how scouting works.
In a game against a competent opponent, you're never going to scout cloaked banshee into expand vs. all-in 1-1-1, except maybe by suiciding a blink stalker. I explained that against 1-1-1 you get a robo very quickly, and since it looks identical to other cloaked banshee builds in the early game, this would imply that you get a quick robo against those as well.
Similarly, against a 3 rax, you'll never actually scout the 3 rax. It will look identical to a 2 rax 90% of the time, until they move out. So basically you just need to play safe and make sure you have enough units before you try to expand. Also, DTs or collo would be a fine response here.
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This is really interesting, I've been having a hard time on the ladder recently vs the 1/1/1, and trying to hold it off with robo play. Thanks for the insight into the possibilities of going twilight vs the 1/1/1, and I was just wondering if you ever try to just go for a fast archon, instead of investing in storm right away.
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On August 21 2011 08:18 vVvTime wrote:Sure. vVvTime.316
It was EverTBadcop. He said he played you on the ladder today so I guess we don't need to arrange this.
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United States7483 Posts
How do you feel this build will be affected by the upcoming blink research time nerf?
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that first replay on shattered temple made me lol..pure ownage with the storm at 11 mins in
Never seen anything like this build...thanks for sharing
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Italy12246 Posts
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This build looks pretty sick and I'll have to try it out.
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I have been using my own opening, with similar principles on the mid-game.
Except I've made the following changes:
Opening:
- No Probe cuts
- 2nd Pylon before gas, since core is delayed (still have 100 gas upon core completion).
- 2Gates down before nexus.
- TC after nexus.
Tech Decisions
- DT shrine upon scouting bio-play. Contain, add gates, chrono charge & +1.
Things I'm still trying to decide what the best is; perhaps you can give some help, isTime.
1-1-1 All in:
I can delay this with blink stalkers a bit. Do you really stall enough to get storm in time? against the early 1-1-1 I can't delay enough with blink to get storm, and he'll roll over me. Any tips?
Gasless expand:
I have had varying success with DT's, and with blink instead of DT's.
I am leaning towards Blink + Robo for obs, because gasless expand tends to turtle for a while anyway, so there is nothing really to 'contain' with the DT's.
Dual Port Banshee:
This REALLY makes me want to always drop Robo before TC when I scout 1-1-1 openings, I just die - and can't get phoenix after doing TC -> Robo (scout + react) -> Stargate.
What do you do? Can you hold with just blink + obs? I just die to banshees stacked on-top of each other, hitting from mineral-line area.
Edit: For Reference, I am playing at around 1300 masters.
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EPT
