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Thought I'd pop in here for ideas since I'm a ~3600 masters terran and I have about a 25% win rate vs zerg.
Here are my problems from my perspective.
1) My rushes (of any kind - bunker rush, 3 rax, 2 rax, marauder/hellion, hellions) are stopped because of either: spine crawlers, zerg simply building a lot of units, etc. Then, I fall behind on macro because the opponent is on 2 base and I am on 1. I have thus come to the conclusion that I cannot attack the zerg early.
2) My gimmicks (of any kind - banshees, blue flame hellion drop, thor drop) are stopped because an overlord is sacrificed and sees a key building (2 starports or armory or hellions) and then they prepare the perfect counter for it (queens, blocking ramp, anticipating drops). I have thus come to the conclusion that I cannot use a gimmick build on the zerg.
3) I cannot scout the zerg because they can catch any scouting unit that isn't flying with their speedlings. Scan is not only very expensive, but it often misses. The zerg has such a flexible number of options (from hard economy to hard rush -- harder than any other race's rush at ANY time they want to cut drones) that not being able to gather good intel on them is deadly and I find myself losing to all-ins a lot. I have thus needed to 'turtle' and cannot afford to do aggression out of fear of being caught out of position or being outmassed at any time.
4) The zerg can control the xel'naga watch towers between your base and theirs so easily with a zergling. If you chase it with a marine, they come back with 5 zerglings and eat it. If you chase it with 5 marines, they come back with 15 zerglings and eat your marines. If you move your entire army out to take the tower, then they flank you.
5) I lose to standard zerg play. The zerg unit composition of muta, baneling, zergling beats anything I can muster. Siege Tank / Marine looks so good on paper against it, but I get caught out of position with tanks and zerglings kill me. I don't have enough marines and mutas kill all the tanks. The banelings blow up my marines and mutas kill the tanks if the tanks are out of position.
6) Mutalisks keep you in your base. If you move out, your economy and buildings die. They macro up while they have just a few mutalisks poking in and out. If you build turrets to defend your base to move out, then they still find somewhere to poke and you've spent valuable resources and you can macro less well. You can't drop them because they have overlords around and then they chase your medivac down with mutalisks.
7) The creep spread. Their units are so powerful and fast on creep. You can't go on it or you get surrounded and die. They have perfect vision of their creep so there's no sneak attacks.
8) Their super units at the end game require very different counters. You get vikings, they get ultralisks, you lose. Speaking of ultralisks, it's one unit that doesn't really have a hard counter when coupled with the oh-so-great baneling.
All in all, I'm a wreck against zerg. If I attack with anything, they're prepared and can pump out an army extremely quickly even if they start with nothing due to being able to see it coming. If I don't attack, they out macro me. Any time I actually attack, they are presented with the opportunity to flank my base so I have to attack quickly; however, if I attack too quickly, they are presented with the opportunity to tear my siege tanks to shreds.
Scary stuff. Hope this inspires zerg.
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On February 21 2011 19:04 Trump wrote:
5) I lose to standard zerg play. The zerg unit composition of muta, baneling, zergling beats anything I can muster. Siege Tank / Marine looks so good on paper against it, but I get caught out of position with tanks and zerglings kill me. I don't have enough marines and mutas kill all the tanks. The banelings blow up my marines and mutas kill the tanks if the tanks are out of position.
I think this is the most important one. In a world of perfect control, tanks and marines can handle sling/bling/muta, the problem in execution is that marine tank medivac is really, really hard to control properly. If you for one instant get attacked without being sieged, you lose. If you don't split your marines right and banelings hit, you lose. If you move too slowly and let all your reinforcements get picked off, you lose. If your opponent is good at spreading creep, you have to siege very early and continue to slow-push. While doing this you have to macro, and macroing with Terran is a lot more screen-time intensive (i.e. you can't press s vv zzz ddddd to make supply, marines, and scvs).
I banged out marine/tank/medivac for like a month and just now I'm starting to reap the benefits and I can finally beat high-level zerg players. I spent a lot of time taking losses from getting attacked when unsieged and misclicking one marine split and dying to banelings. Unfortunately you have to use a composition that is significantly harder to control, but that may be something we just have to deal with.
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i feel you brother.... if you dont catch the bunkerrush in time (or respond perfectly while macroing) you get straight punted and lose the hatch (gg). If you do everything ALMOST perfect and ovecompensate with units, its not like you can counterattack anyways (he lols at you from behind his wall). If you roflstomp the bunkerrush he just drops a mule, laughs and says, "well, almost killed him that time. Good thing i'm not behind!". Then the tank push comes, and if you don't kill right the first time you're never, ever going to have enough units to defend it.
I don't know what happens next, i usually dont get this far.
Oh, right. If you're close positions he laughs at you as you try to take a 3rd. If you're far positions you both macro up and he PF's his third and laughs at you as you have to choose between attempting to take down a PF + turrets or attack his seiged-up main. har har har.
BL's would be nice, except you need 8 gas to support them. Upgrades would be nice too, but you spend all your gas on banes or infestors (just to slow down a handful of marines before the wreck your 4th.)
I dunno man. Im practicing every day with a marine-tank partner and he just kills me 90% of the time.
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Well, muta ling baneling is as hard to micro as marine tank, saying marine tank medivac is harder is kinda funny.
The big problem I have against terran is the PF. This building should never exist because you just cannot take it down unless you are at Hive tech.
I suggest to you always letting 10 or so zergling somewhere, ready to counter attack and rush to the mineral line of the terran if the terran goes out.
Same for mutas: they suck. They are so useless in fight that it's just boring to see them melt like shit against a 50 mineral units. They have some use only because of their mobility: you have to attack the terran as soon as he get out of his base, destroy turret, destroy add on, destroy baracks if possible or supply.
Early bunkers are just so boring because it cost almost nothing. The terran can do that, loose everything like a shit, and still be pretty safe and DAMAGING your economy because you have to make zerglings that takes larva... But it's pretty easy to survive it with some awareness/micro.
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I find that Terran is the easiest opponent. I'm only a 1900 diamond zerg, but the match-up trend should be the same.
I use pretty much the things you already said, but my success is better my current level. There's two things I think might help you.
1. ling infestor baneling roach
Rush for infestors and prepare roach and baneling if needed to counter T. Terrans always suspect mutas, so don't give them any. If they go mech, get neaural parasite and break siegelines with mind control at critical times.
2. Loser mentality loses games
I had the same "wtf do I do" attitude against T during early release. Once I saw Fruitdealer win the 1st GSL I was encouraged and started winning. So check out some pro replays and see how top Zergs can roflstomp good terrans and you might lose the bad mentality that limits your thinking and puts you on the back foot before the match even begins.
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the fact that you are being hit with a timing push early/mid game all the time, suggests to me that you are using some sot of generic nothing opening strategy which doesn't put him under any kind of pressure.
or perhaps using an opening which the terran can identify as having a weakness in the early/mid game.
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On February 21 2011 16:46 Flyingpants wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 10:13 Arisen wrote:
Early game you should have a spine at your natural any time you think you're getting 2 raxed and just have good scouting. The 2 rax push isn't all that intimidating unless he brings a lot of scv's, and then you can just pull drones to deal. Don't forget to start ling speed when you're getting bunker rushed, as the only way you can shut it down for good is with speed (vs a good opp) A spine? lolol, spines take 10 mnutes to build, 2 rax arrives miles before that even finishes. Not to mention that the scv's tank the spine and marines focus it down Hellions are just so absurdly strong, don't say roachs because hellions can just run by them. Lings don't work, hellions kite and roast them.
First of all, stop with the attitude. We're giving you help, and people don't want to continue giving you help if you give them an attitude for every idea they suggest.
Second of all, if you 14 hatch even on Steppes a Spine will finish at your nat before a 2 rax comes unless he pushes with his first 2 marines, in which your drones can hold that off anyways.
Thirdly, Roaches ARE the counter to Hellions. Put them on your ramp and a spine by your nats mineral line. Roaches block the path into the main (you only need 2 on hold) and spines tear through Hellions. Don't try to micro your Drones, you just line them up more for the Hellions. Use the rest of your roaches to fend them off.
Ta-da.
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On February 21 2011 19:04 Trump wrote:
Thought I'd pop in here for ideas since I'm a ~3600 masters terran and I have about a 25% win rate vs zerg.
Here are my problems from my perspective.
1) My rushes (of any kind - bunker rush, 3 rax, 2 rax, marauder/hellion, hellions) are stopped because of either: spine crawlers, zerg simply building a lot of units, etc. Then, I fall behind on macro because the opponent is on 2 base and I am on 1. I have thus come to the conclusion that I cannot attack the zerg early.
2) My gimmicks (of any kind - banshees, blue flame hellion drop, thor drop) are stopped because an overlord is sacrificed and sees a key building (2 starports or armory or hellions) and then they prepare the perfect counter for it (queens, blocking ramp, anticipating drops). I have thus come to the conclusion that I cannot use a gimmick build on the zerg.
3) I cannot scout the zerg because they can catch any scouting unit that isn't flying with their speedlings. Scan is not only very expensive, but it often misses. The zerg has such a flexible number of options (from hard economy to hard rush -- harder than any other race's rush at ANY time they want to cut drones) that not being able to gather good intel on them is deadly and I find myself losing to all-ins a lot. I have thus needed to 'turtle' and cannot afford to do aggression out of fear of being caught out of position or being outmassed at any time.
4) The zerg can control the xel'naga watch towers between your base and theirs so easily with a zergling. If you chase it with a marine, they come back with 5 zerglings and eat it. If you chase it with 5 marines, they come back with 15 zerglings and eat your marines. If you move your entire army out to take the tower, then they flank you.
5) I lose to standard zerg play. The zerg unit composition of muta, baneling, zergling beats anything I can muster. Siege Tank / Marine looks so good on paper against it, but I get caught out of position with tanks and zerglings kill me. I don't have enough marines and mutas kill all the tanks. The banelings blow up my marines and mutas kill the tanks if the tanks are out of position.
6) Mutalisks keep you in your base. If you move out, your economy and buildings die. They macro up while they have just a few mutalisks poking in and out. If you build turrets to defend your base to move out, then they still find somewhere to poke and you've spent valuable resources and you can macro less well. You can't drop them because they have overlords around and then they chase your medivac down with mutalisks.
7) The creep spread. Their units are so powerful and fast on creep. You can't go on it or you get surrounded and die. They have perfect vision of their creep so there's no sneak attacks.
8) Their super units at the end game require very different counters. You get vikings, they get ultralisks, you lose. Speaking of ultralisks, it's one unit that doesn't really have a hard counter when coupled with the oh-so-great baneling.
All in all, I'm a wreck against zerg. If I attack with anything, they're prepared and can pump out an army extremely quickly even if they start with nothing due to being able to see it coming. If I don't attack, they out macro me. Any time I actually attack, they are presented with the opportunity to flank my base so I have to attack quickly; however, if I attack too quickly, they are presented with the opportunity to tear my siege tanks to shreds.
Scary stuff. Hope this inspires zerg.
Funny thing is that I really don't know if you're trolling or not.
But, in the of chance you're not, it simply seems that you're playing against opponents far better than you, that can multi-task much better than you. Not to belittle you or anything, you're Masters, I am not.
But it seems you should learn to better spend your scans, either to scout or to kill tumors. Nothing pisses a zerg more than a group of marines stiming and killing tumors. It takes SO DAMN LONG to spread that shit. It often pisses the so much he may make a blunder and try to engage you and lose lot of units to protect tumors.
And it seems that you're losing to muta/ling/bling, which I find 99% of the Terrans can counter in their sleep. At least they can counter me and a lot of zerg that streams in this site. Mainly, watch DecemberTV, MRBitter, Catz.Root and others and see that they lose A LOT while going muta/ling/bling.
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2.8k master here
strange: my matchup is the compleate opposite i rule zvt and suck at zvp but well thats offtopic^^
ok but ontopic^^
if your enemy is doing a bunker rush you should pull off up to 8 drones, since like this you will lose more mining time, but less drones and will be able to saturate your hatch emidiatly
you want to prevent a bunker from going down at your ramp at all cost, in range of your hatch at quite some effort and well OOR of the hatch dont realy care about that.
to later pushes you actually have to scout your opponent and know wether you can build drones or not. (i know thats not that much of a helpful comment but well ill do my best explaining more^^)
3.0.0/2.1.0 rax factory-> push PREPARE
1.1.1 harrasment -> queens roach drones mutas, mostly drones
1.2.0 mb hellions but mostly macroplay-> some roach but mostly drones and fast tech mb expo
a CC means a small push might come, but you can build some drones
as for real lategame im just quite confident in playing a terra who has less than 3 base because you usually never get into an later situation.
usually you want to say the more factories the more broodlords the more barrax the more infestor you want (if he does something starport heavy ultras rule  )
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On February 21 2011 20:27 Humbuuzio wrote:
I find that Terran is the easiest opponent. I'm only a 1900 diamond zerg, but the match-up trend should be the same.
2. Loser mentality loses games
I had the same "wtf do I do" attitude against T during early release. Once I saw Fruitdealer win the 1st GSL I was encouraged and started winning. So check out some pro replays and see how top Zergs can roflstomp good terrans and you might lose the bad mentality that limits your thinking and puts you on the back foot before the match even begins.
Long time lurker but registered just because of the second point here: it's so important.
Once you go up against a race thinking I'm going to lose and second guessing yourself, then more often that not, it's going to end up that way. You have to go into each one believing you have a fighting chance - get a practice partner until you feel completely comfortable against T.
Like everyone before me has said, look at pro replays to get an idea of their responses to certain scenarios and as you have identified: clean up macro :D Good luck!
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I am a 2800 diamond zerg to take this for what it's worth, but I've had good success lately with baneling busts. My game plan is to go 14 hatch 15 pool, gas shortly afterwards, first 100 gas on ling speed and next 50 gas on baneling nest. Then mass a lot of lings and try to bust him once I have my first 6-8 banes.
I have won a lot of games outright with this. Even if it fails it usually does enough damage that I'm not too far behind. It hits just before he can have banshees -- I've had many games where I'm killing all his SCVs with speedlings just as his first banshee pops out.
Of course you have to adapt, like if you see a wall-in with only two barracks (1000 hp) then you can't really bust that. Or of he's getting lots of marauders you have to do something different. But I like the build because it feels pretty safe against any kind of terran early aggression, and you're on two bases so it's not too hard to just transition into mutas or infestors and play a standard macro game.
If the terran expands before getting seige tanks then I can often kill his expo with a shitload of banelings.
I have really been enjoying playing this style, and I think a lot of terrans are not used to dealing with early aggression from zerg. Maybe that's why it works? Anyway, give it a try if playing "standard" is not working well for you.
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have you tried a fast as possible ling/bling mix with about 30 lings 15 banes? I dont think its an all in because it will ALWAYS do damage as long as its out before more then 2 tanks which is easily possible.
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I could have written the original post. I feel so fucking frustrated in ZvT and it's killing all the fun I have with this game. 90% of T's I play at high diamond go bunker rush into tank/marine with drops. It's so routine that I wonder how they can keep doing it without getting bored out of their mind. My problems all seem to stem from the fact that I can't figure out how to hold a third (like on Xel'Naga for example), while harrassing with mutas, while continuing to make mutas, not neglecting my upgrades, and having enough gas to morph banelings when the terran moves out. Meanwhile the terran "macros up" 50 SCVs, takes his 3rd at the gold, morphs a PF, sieges a few tanks, drops 3 turrets and I need 200 food to break it down. I can't take my gold-hell I can't even take my 3rd without having a marine/tank/medivac ball snipe my hatch before I can move into a position to attack. Do I have to use mutas defensively now? Drop spines at all my bases? Burrow banelings? Attack more? Be less aggressive? or some kind of combination of those things?
I'm not a pro, I'm not claiming to be especially good, but I'm putting effort into my mechanics and trying to improve as a player. It's just completely disheartening when I try my best to control a 3 base hatch economy while keeping my unit production high and my mineral/gas count low, then lose hard after 20 minutes, and then load up the replay and see the Terran had half the harvesters and 1-0 upgrades on his marines. I feel like I can't learn anything of use from an experience like that except to hate the matchup even more.
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On February 21 2011 16:46 Flyingpants wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 10:13 Arisen wrote:
Early game you should have a spine at your natural any time you think you're getting 2 raxed and just have good scouting. The 2 rax push isn't all that intimidating unless he brings a lot of scv's, and then you can just pull drones to deal. Don't forget to start ling speed when you're getting bunker rushed, as the only way you can shut it down for good is with speed (vs a good opp) A spine? lolol, spines take 10 mnutes to build, 2 rax arrives miles before that even finishes. Not to mention that the scv's tank the spine and marines focus it down. T is infinitely better to play then Z, Z has zero ability to harass a terren at basically any point in the game, sure you can do funny things like burrow infestors, but it rarely works, muta harass rarely works either. Hellions are just so absurdly strong, don't say roachs because hellions can just run by them. Lings don't work, hellions kite and roast them. And then we get into things like banshees, terren building CC in his own base, siege tanks, and endless stim marine pushes.
3K Diamond Zerg here.
Biased post is biased? Muta harass is extremely effective unless the Terran quick techs to Thors or completely turrets his base, both of which put you at an advantage and give you map control.
Hellions are strong against Drones...that's pretty much it. They're pretty good against Zerglings when you get a critical mass of them (10-12) but until then it's way too easy to surround them on creep and his entire harass and mineral investment is completely shut down. Roaches aren't even required, but they'd be overkill if you had them anyways. Learn to block your ramp with Queens/Roaches to keep Hellions from dancing between your bases. It's impossible for Hellions to kite Zerglings on creep, not sure what you're talking about here.
If your Terran opponent doesn't FE and/or harasses you with some Hellions, it's usually a safe bet that Banshees will be coming fairly soon. Scouting also helps to confirm this. If it's 1 port Banshee, just get an extra Queen or two and an Overseer once you reach Lair. If it's 2 port Banshee, put up a couple spore crawlers around your Hatches to make sure you get good coverage. If he tries to poke at your Extractors kite with your Queen so that he's forced to take spore crawler hits.
Terran building a CC in his base...well that's just an advantage of the Terran race. Sort of like creep or warp-ins. Not really sure what your complaint is about this, Terran units are extremely vulnerable out in the open so this is really required to allow any sort of early macro play.
Siege Tank/Stim Marine pushes can be difficult to hold, but good Speedling/Baneling control until you can get to Infestors or Mutas really help shut this down. Remember that the Terran can't rebuild his army as fast as you can, so every time you repel one of these pushes you can squeeze in a round of Drones.
To the OP: Hopefully some of that helped you, but I'd suggest going and checking out MrBitter's thread on Infestor play in ZvT. I'm around the same level as you and ZvT is easily my best match up (ZvP on the other hand...ugh). The playstyle really allows you to be mobile and reactive...and while you give up some map control most of the time Terran players have no idea what to to do with it and will attack into your superior force anyways.
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On February 21 2011 20:08 WhiteDog wrote:
Well, muta ling baneling is as hard to micro as marine tank, saying marine tank medivac is harder is kinda funny.
The big problem I have against terran is the PF. This building should never exist because you just cannot take it down unless you are at Hive tech.
I suggest to you always letting 10 or so zergling somewhere, ready to counter attack and rush to the mineral line of the terran if the terran goes out.
Same for mutas: they suck. They are so useless in fight that it's just boring to see them melt like shit against a 50 mineral units. They have some use only because of their mobility: you have to attack the terran as soon as he get out of his base, destroy turret, destroy add on, destroy baracks if possible or supply.
Early bunkers are just so boring because it cost almost nothing. The terran can do that, loose everything like a shit, and still be pretty safe and DAMAGING your economy because you have to make zerglings that takes larva... But it's pretty easy to survive it with some awareness/micro.
As a previous Random player who just recently decided to main Zerg, I can tell you that Marine/Tank/Medivac IS harder to micro than Ling/Bane/Muta. As iEchoic mentioned, you have to make sure you siege far enough away so that you can't get caught out of position, and then slow push your way to the Zerg, all the while making sure you have good tank coverage and good Marine spread. If you misclick on a Marine split, the game is over. If you at any point have to unsiege all your tanks, the game is over. If you are too involved with your tank push and forget to macro, the game is over.
With Ling/Bane/Muta, you really just have to make sure that your Lings absorb the first round of tank fire, and then you chase Marines around with your Banelings and use your Mutas to focus down tanks. Splitting Banelings is by no means required but does help, especially if he splits his Marines. With excellent control, the Terran can come out on top, but anything less than that and they get rolled.
I still prefer Infestor play to Muta play however.
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On February 22 2011 02:40 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 20:08 WhiteDog wrote:
Well, muta ling baneling is as hard to micro as marine tank, saying marine tank medivac is harder is kinda funny.
The big problem I have against terran is the PF. This building should never exist because you just cannot take it down unless you are at Hive tech.
I suggest to you always letting 10 or so zergling somewhere, ready to counter attack and rush to the mineral line of the terran if the terran goes out.
Same for mutas: they suck. They are so useless in fight that it's just boring to see them melt like shit against a 50 mineral units. They have some use only because of their mobility: you have to attack the terran as soon as he get out of his base, destroy turret, destroy add on, destroy baracks if possible or supply.
Early bunkers are just so boring because it cost almost nothing. The terran can do that, loose everything like a shit, and still be pretty safe and DAMAGING your economy because you have to make zerglings that takes larva... But it's pretty easy to survive it with some awareness/micro. As a previous Random player who just recently decided to main Zerg, I can tell you that Marine/Tank/Medivac IS harder to micro than Ling/Bane/Muta. As iEchoic mentioned, you have to make sure you siege far enough away so that you can't get caught out of position, and then slow push your way to the Zerg, all the while making sure you have good tank coverage and good Marine spread. If you misclick on a Marine split, the game is over. If you at any point have to unsiege all your tanks, the game is over. If you are too involved with your tank push and forget to macro, the game is over. With Ling/Bane/Muta, you really just have to make sure that your Lings absorb the first round of tank fire, and then you chase Marines around with your Banelings and use your Mutas to focus down tanks. Splitting Banelings is by no means required but does help, especially if he splits his Marines. With excellent control, the Terran can come out on top, but anything less than that and they get rolled. I still prefer Infestor play to Muta play however.
Exactly, good post.
There's a certain skill level where muta/bling/ling play is nearly perfected but the pre-requisite skill to run marine/tank/medivac perfectly hasn't been acquired. That skill hump is hard for a lot of Terran players.
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On February 22 2011 02:40 ZasZ. wrote:
As a previous Random player who just recently decided to main Zerg, I can tell you that Marine/Tank/Medivac IS harder to micro than Ling/Bane/Muta. As iEchoic mentioned, you have to make sure you siege far enough away so that you can't get caught out of position, and then slow push your way to the Zerg, all the while making sure you have good tank coverage and good Marine spread. If you misclick on a Marine split, the game is over. If you at any point have to unsiege all your tanks, the game is over. If you are too involved with your tank push and forget to macro, the game is over.
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K i bolded the SLOW part. Since when does micromanagement include slow. And HOW can you even suggest that once ur marines die the game is over. Marines are the most cost effective unit in the game and they actually build faster than it takes for banelings to morph....................................................................like........................................................................................................as for the last point...forgetting to macro because you are concentrated on your army is in no way a Terran difficulty but rather a basic aspect of the game
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On February 21 2011 10:21 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2011 10:16 darkscream wrote:
The only thing I have a problem with is terrans who do that bunker rush shit. They're basically retarded if they don't do it, it ruins zerg and there's no way to stop it/counter it without taking huge losses in time and minerals gathered in the early game - let alone forcing you to make static D or whatever else. For something which costs the Terran hardly ANYTHING, it totally influences the Zerg's tech tree choices for the whole game. Worse, they tend to deploy this, expand and tech rather than just all-in, so once they salvage those bunkers they probably have a new command center with 4 mules at their natural.
I really don't know what to do about it, even pulling drones to fight marines puts me way behind and having to watch/patrol my ramp so that I don't get blocked in is terrible too.. Again, costs Terran nothing, costs me time and money.
Would like to see a real solution to this problem.
You should play terran and actually do a marine/scv bunker rush. YOu would see that what you have said is simply not true. Pulling drones before they bunker your ramp will wipe the floor with them, and you so many more workers that you really arent behind at all. The only time you will get behind is if he happens to get those bunkers up. But if you scout it and pull 5-6 drones + your first 6 lings, you should be able to hold it pretty easily. The terran will have like 12 workers when he pulls 4-5 scvs plus his first few marines.
SO if he loses 6 drones of mining time you can just cancel your bunker.... and you are almost guaranteed to have him make 6-12 lings.... which could be drones... seriously play zerg and try to say "it is really easy". i mean canceling a bunker isn't hard and you only lose 1 scv of mining time and marines which you make anyways.
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On February 22 2011 16:25 Zedders wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 02:40 ZasZ. wrote:
As a previous Random player who just recently decided to main Zerg, I can tell you that Marine/Tank/Medivac IS harder to micro than Ling/Bane/Muta. As iEchoic mentioned, you have to make sure you siege far enough away so that you can't get caught out of position, and then slow push your way to the Zerg, all the while making sure you have good tank coverage and good Marine spread. If you misclick on a Marine split, the game is over. If you at any point have to unsiege all your tanks, the game is over. If you are too involved with your tank push and forget to macro, the game is over.
. K i bolded the SLOW part. Since when does micromanagement include slow. And HOW can you even suggest that once ur marines die the game is over. Marines are the most cost effective unit in the game and they actually build faster than it takes for banelings to morph....................................................................like........................................................................................................as for the last point...forgetting to macro because you are concentrated on your army is in no way a Terran difficulty but rather a basic aspect of the game
The game is over if you don't split your marines and the banelings just blow everything up. After that the mutas clean the tanks, the zerg probably still has a nice amount of zerglings and you're just screwed, no way can a terran come back from that.
And yes, in terran lategame you have to slowly push with your whole army, always keeping some tanks sieged. If the zerg catches the terran when his sieges aren't in siegemode, terran gets crushed.
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Seriously Zedders, i think you are so upset about this match up you arent thinking straight (i am feeling like that in TvP so i get it colosssssiiii raggeeeeee). Terran isn't a magic easy mode, the reason the fight is over once the marines die is because the mutas will just kill everything (much faster thanmedivacs and tanks) left, and the mutas are the most important unit for zerg to retain in a ling/bling/muta comp.
Terran armies replenish slower than zerg and require critical mass, so once a terran loses a critical mass army its very hard for him to challenge zerg for a long time. this extends into them not being able to take a third or damage the zerg (perhaps multiprong drops aside)
But really just try some marine tank medivac and see how it is. Do some customs, it ll help you find the holes anyway.
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EPT
