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Simple Questions Simple Answers - Page 340

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Sachem
Profile Joined May 2011
United States116 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-18 02:09:39
August 18 2011 02:09 GMT
#6781
On August 18 2011 10:53 Moobutt wrote:
Is it possible to delay warpgate tech and still have a viable build(including a reasonably timed expansion)? More specifically, how viable is it per each match up? I figure in PvP it's impossible. I really want to make a later warpgate tech build for either PvZ or PvT. I think I'll be able to do it with PvZ.


The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.

It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.

Happy Birthday =D
Moobutt
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1996 Posts
August 18 2011 02:23 GMT
#6782
On August 18 2011 11:09 Sachem wrote:The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.

It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.

Happy Birthday =D

Okay thanks. I guess that does make sense when I think about it more. I just dislike that I feel forced to research something to play a race effectively.
3/22/16 The Day EG Died
grimAuxiliatrix
Profile Joined October 2010
United States105 Posts
August 18 2011 02:39 GMT
#6783
On August 18 2011 11:23 Moobutt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2011 11:09 Sachem wrote:The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.

It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.

Happy Birthday =D

Okay thanks. I guess that does make sense when I think about it more. I just dislike that I feel forced to research something to play a race effectively.


It's not that bad. Every T gets an OC and every zerg gets speed.
Word to your mothership HuK
Intensity
Profile Joined February 2011
53 Posts
August 18 2011 03:19 GMT
#6784
I watch pro games all of the time. Every time a Zerg clicks on a hatch they have lines going all over the map. Can someone explain the best way to rally all of the hatches? Is there a way to make it so the overlord doesn't fly into the main army? Also, what is the best way to bind your hotkeys as zerg? I'd love to learn the race a little better but there's no guide on how to rally all of the hatches properly.
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-18 04:26:12
August 18 2011 04:23 GMT
#6785
This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing

As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.

Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s

42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s

What am I missing >_>

edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time.
jdelator
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States89 Posts
August 18 2011 05:16 GMT
#6786
Anyone know MC's PvP FE build order? It was talked about in the SOTG and shown on Hero's stream.
NationInArms
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1553 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-18 06:37:10
August 18 2011 06:29 GMT
#6787
Is there a Starcraft 2 Guide for BW players? Kind of like the BW guide for players switching from sc2.
BW for life | Fantasy, MMA, SlayerS_Boxer | Taengoo! n_n | "Lelouch vi Britannia commands you! Obey me, subjects! OBEY ME, WORLD!" | <3 Emi
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2043 Posts
August 18 2011 06:39 GMT
#6788
On August 18 2011 13:23 tuestresfat wrote:
This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing

As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.

Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s

42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s

What am I missing >_>

edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time.



You're probably wrong about your first assumption.

I usually go stalker - sentry - stalker with no cb on units and 4 cbs on core and everything lines up perfectly. (1 sec delay according to the build times).
You make a sentry so you build 5 secs faster than me. You chrono your gateways so you gain 10 additional secs on me. But you have one less CB on core which results in an overall 25 secs delay between gate army and wg research.
geiko.813 (EU)
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
August 18 2011 07:51 GMT
#6789
On August 18 2011 15:39 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2011 13:23 tuestresfat wrote:
This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing

As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.

Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s

42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s

What am I missing >_>

edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time.



You're probably wrong about your first assumption.

I usually go stalker - sentry - stalker with no cb on units and 4 cbs on core and everything lines up perfectly. (1 sec delay according to the build times).
You make a sentry so you build 5 secs faster than me. You chrono your gateways so you gain 10 additional secs on me. But you have one less CB on core which results in an overall 25 secs delay between gate army and wg research.

Then could you explain this particular vod:
+ Show Spoiler +


Stalker is made right as cyber completes. 1st Sentry was delayed due to supply block, but only for 5s. 2nd Sentry made with no delay. 2nd Sentry finishes ~7s before Warpgates. Although you can't see how many chronos are used on warpgate tech I'm pretty sure it's 3 as warpgates finish at 5:50. Am I incorrect in assuming 5:50 = 3 chronos? I was pretty sure 13gate would result in 6:20 warpgate research (with no chrono)...

tyty, I don't actually open this way (always 2gate or 15nexus) which I guess is why I can't piece it together for some reason.
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
August 18 2011 09:18 GMT
#6790
What do I do with my drone after I drone scout in ZvZ? Just try to keep it alive to keep getting info, or just bring it back when the first ovie arrives, or something completely different?
Ninja_Bread
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States113 Posts
August 18 2011 10:59 GMT
#6791
Bring it back before it dies to lings spawning, what you need to do is make a few lings yourself and keep them always scouting his ling count, and have ovies between you two to watch for attacks! The key to holding any kind of pressure is to scout it first, if you don't scout them expanding, then assume some kind of cheesy all-in is coming, like a ling all-in or roaches, or banes. You can scout which one it is by scouting ling counts, if you see many lings, assume it isn't roaches, if he expands and doesn't really saturate, or makes a macro hatch it could be lings or banes. The trick to holding these all ins is just making a few spines/queens, and engaging properly with lings, keep in mind you have MORE drones than he does and defenders advantage.
Mang
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2597 Posts
August 18 2011 11:08 GMT
#6792
On August 18 2011 11:23 Moobutt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2011 11:09 Sachem wrote:The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.

It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.

Happy Birthday =D

Okay thanks. I guess that does make sense when I think about it more. I just dislike that I feel forced to research something to play a race effectively.

Warpgate is really an inherent characteristic of the race, though. The reason it's researchable isn't that it's intended to be optional, but because Protoss would be completely imbalanced if warping in were possible from the start.
The frumious Bandersnatch
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France2043 Posts
August 18 2011 11:12 GMT
#6793
On August 18 2011 16:51 tuestresfat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2011 15:39 Geiko wrote:
On August 18 2011 13:23 tuestresfat wrote:
This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing

As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.

Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s

42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s

What am I missing >_>

edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time.



You're probably wrong about your first assumption.

I usually go stalker - sentry - stalker with no cb on units and 4 cbs on core and everything lines up perfectly. (1 sec delay according to the build times).
You make a sentry so you build 5 secs faster than me. You chrono your gateways so you gain 10 additional secs on me. But you have one less CB on core which results in an overall 25 secs delay between gate army and wg research.

Then could you explain this particular vod:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhU-gTAdLtE&list=FLYKKIfhgZE6Z-Zi9oCtzLEQ&index=4


Stalker is made right as cyber completes. 1st Sentry was delayed due to supply block, but only for 5s. 2nd Sentry made with no delay. 2nd Sentry finishes ~7s before Warpgates. Although you can't see how many chronos are used on warpgate tech I'm pretty sure it's 3 as warpgates finish at 5:50. Am I incorrect in assuming 5:50 = 3 chronos? I was pretty sure 13gate would result in 6:20 warpgate research (with no chrono)...

tyty, I don't actually open this way (always 2gate or 15nexus) which I guess is why I can't piece it together for some reason.

Pretty sure that vid was pre patch (wg time nerf and sentry time buff) ?
geiko.813 (EU)
Get.Midikem
Profile Joined September 2006
Sweden312 Posts
August 18 2011 15:31 GMT
#6794
On August 18 2011 12:19 Intensity wrote:
I watch pro games all of the time. Every time a Zerg clicks on a hatch they have lines going all over the map. Can someone explain the best way to rally all of the hatches? Is there a way to make it so the overlord doesn't fly into the main army? Also, what is the best way to bind your hotkeys as zerg? I'd love to learn the race a little better but there's no guide on how to rally all of the hatches properly.


I bind all hatch to key 5. Then put rally outside base of yours. If you have advantage change rally to hos base.
frignr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States19 Posts
August 18 2011 15:36 GMT
#6795
I heard that optimal saturation for a base is 16 and maximum is 24. When terrans summon mules, does it count into the saturation number?
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
August 18 2011 15:47 GMT
#6796
On August 19 2011 00:36 frignr wrote:
I heard that optimal saturation for a base is 16 and maximum is 24. When terrans summon mules, does it count into the saturation number?


No, Mules mine over SCVs so they go above the saturation line
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-18 16:21:51
August 18 2011 16:21 GMT
#6797
On August 18 2011 12:19 Intensity wrote:
I watch pro games all of the time. Every time a Zerg clicks on a hatch they have lines going all over the map. Can someone explain the best way to rally all of the hatches? Is there a way to make it so the overlord doesn't fly into the main army? Also, what is the best way to bind your hotkeys as zerg? I'd love to learn the race a little better but there's no guide on how to rally all of the hatches properly.


most high-level players put all of their hatcheries on one hotkey; this makes it very easy to use larvae as soon as they are generated, thus never having idle larvae.

The best way to rally is to just right-click at a location with all of your hatcheries selected. This will rally all hatches to the same spot. You can also do this with a worker rally (orange rally line) to quickly make workers for a new expansion.

Sadly, there is no rally specifically for overlords you have to remember to spread your overlords manually.

A good default hotkey setup for zerg:

1-4: units
5: all hatcheries
6: 1st Queen
7: 2nd Queen
8: 3rd Queen
9: 4th Queen/key tech building
0: 5th Queen/upgrade buildings
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
AxelTVx
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada916 Posts
August 18 2011 16:39 GMT
#6798
Can someone find the destiny build for me please? I searched it on TL on Thread and Content, but no specific BO came up.
Axel 145 Masters Protoss
K9GM3
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands116 Posts
August 18 2011 17:14 GMT
#6799
On August 19 2011 01:39 AxelTVx wrote:
Can someone find the destiny build for me please? I searched it on TL on Thread and Content, but no specific BO came up.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Destiny's_ZvZ_(vs._Zerg)
No, I don't want your number.
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
August 18 2011 17:16 GMT
#6800
On August 19 2011 01:39 AxelTVx wrote:
Can someone find the destiny build for me please? I searched it on TL on Thread and Content, but no specific BO came up.


tsk tsk you didn't think to search Liquipedia, the #1 SC2 strategy resource:

(Wiki)Destiny build
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