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On August 18 2011 10:53 Moobutt wrote:
Is it possible to delay warpgate tech and still have a viable build(including a reasonably timed expansion)? More specifically, how viable is it per each match up? I figure in PvP it's impossible. I really want to make a later warpgate tech build for either PvZ or PvT. I think I'll be able to do it with PvZ.
The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.
It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.
Happy Birthday =D
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On August 18 2011 11:09 Sachem wrote:The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.
It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.
Happy Birthday =D
Okay thanks. I guess that does make sense when I think about it more. I just dislike that I feel forced to research something to play a race effectively. 
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On August 18 2011 11:23 Moobutt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 11:09 Sachem wrote:The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.
It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.
Happy Birthday =D Okay thanks. I guess that does make sense when I think about it more. I just dislike that I feel forced to research something to play a race effectively.
It's not that bad. Every T gets an OC and every zerg gets speed.
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I watch pro games all of the time. Every time a Zerg clicks on a hatch they have lines going all over the map. Can someone explain the best way to rally all of the hatches? Is there a way to make it so the overlord doesn't fly into the main army? Also, what is the best way to bind your hotkeys as zerg? I'd love to learn the race a little better but there's no guide on how to rally all of the hatches properly.
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This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing
As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.
Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s
42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s
What am I missing >_>
edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time.
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Anyone know MC's PvP FE build order? It was talked about in the SOTG and shown on Hero's stream.
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Is there a Starcraft 2 Guide for BW players? Kind of like the BW guide for players switching from sc2.
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On August 18 2011 13:23 tuestresfat wrote:
This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing
As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.
Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s
42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s
What am I missing >_>
edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time.
You're probably wrong about your first assumption.
I usually go stalker - sentry - stalker with no cb on units and 4 cbs on core and everything lines up perfectly. (1 sec delay according to the build times).
You make a sentry so you build 5 secs faster than me. You chrono your gateways so you gain 10 additional secs on me. But you have one less CB on core which results in an overall 25 secs delay between gate army and wg research.
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On August 18 2011 15:39 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 13:23 tuestresfat wrote:
This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing
As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.
Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s
42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s
What am I missing >_>
edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time. You're probably wrong about your first assumption. I usually go stalker - sentry - stalker with no cb on units and 4 cbs on core and everything lines up perfectly. (1 sec delay according to the build times). You make a sentry so you build 5 secs faster than me. You chrono your gateways so you gain 10 additional secs on me. But you have one less CB on core which results in an overall 25 secs delay between gate army and wg research.
Then could you explain this particular vod:
+ Show Spoiler +
Stalker is made right as cyber completes. 1st Sentry was delayed due to supply block, but only for 5s. 2nd Sentry made with no delay. 2nd Sentry finishes ~7s before Warpgates. Although you can't see how many chronos are used on warpgate tech I'm pretty sure it's 3 as warpgates finish at 5:50. Am I incorrect in assuming 5:50 = 3 chronos? I was pretty sure 13gate would result in 6:20 warpgate research (with no chrono)...
tyty, I don't actually open this way (always 2gate or 15nexus) which I guess is why I can't piece it together for some reason.
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What do I do with my drone after I drone scout in ZvZ? Just try to keep it alive to keep getting info, or just bring it back when the first ovie arrives, or something completely different?
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Bring it back before it dies to lings spawning, what you need to do is make a few lings yourself and keep them always scouting his ling count, and have ovies between you two to watch for attacks! The key to holding any kind of pressure is to scout it first, if you don't scout them expanding, then assume some kind of cheesy all-in is coming, like a ling all-in or roaches, or banes. You can scout which one it is by scouting ling counts, if you see many lings, assume it isn't roaches, if he expands and doesn't really saturate, or makes a macro hatch it could be lings or banes. The trick to holding these all ins is just making a few spines/queens, and engaging properly with lings, keep in mind you have MORE drones than he does and defenders advantage.
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On August 18 2011 11:23 Moobutt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 11:09 Sachem wrote:The general theory is that for such a small investment, you get so much that there's no reason not to do it. Outside of like 2gate or proxy-gate cheeses, there's no long term strategy where that tiny investment isn't worth it. As for getting it a tiny bit later to allow for a slightly earlier expand or something, some builds do it, but not to the extent (I'm assuming) you're thinking of.
It's an essential protoss mechanic, not investing in it would be like not getting Queens for zerg; If your plan is long-term, there's no reason not to get it, since it adds so much.
Happy Birthday =D Okay thanks. I guess that does make sense when I think about it more. I just dislike that I feel forced to research something to play a race effectively.
Warpgate is really an inherent characteristic of the race, though. The reason it's researchable isn't that it's intended to be optional, but because Protoss would be completely imbalanced if warping in were possible from the start.
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On August 18 2011 16:51 tuestresfat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 15:39 Geiko wrote:On August 18 2011 13:23 tuestresfat wrote:
This is going to be really stupid but my head isn't working so hopefully someone can throw me the obvious answer I'm missing
As protoss, I know that if I chrono my first Stalker, and train 2 sentries right after it (from the same gateway), the 2nd sentry will finish at the same time as warpgate tech, provided I chrono warpgate research a total of 3 times.
Warpgate = 160s
Stalker = 42s
Sentry = 37s
Chrono = -10s
42 + 37 + 37 - 10 = 106s
160 - 30 = 130s
What am I missing >_>
edit: stalker and warpgate both start at the same time. You're probably wrong about your first assumption. I usually go stalker - sentry - stalker with no cb on units and 4 cbs on core and everything lines up perfectly. (1 sec delay according to the build times). You make a sentry so you build 5 secs faster than me. You chrono your gateways so you gain 10 additional secs on me. But you have one less CB on core which results in an overall 25 secs delay between gate army and wg research. Then could you explain this particular vod: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhU-gTAdLtE&list=FLYKKIfhgZE6Z-Zi9oCtzLEQ&index=4 Stalker is made right as cyber completes. 1st Sentry was delayed due to supply block, but only for 5s. 2nd Sentry made with no delay. 2nd Sentry finishes ~7s before Warpgates. Although you can't see how many chronos are used on warpgate tech I'm pretty sure it's 3 as warpgates finish at 5:50. Am I incorrect in assuming 5:50 = 3 chronos? I was pretty sure 13gate would result in 6:20 warpgate research (with no chrono)... tyty, I don't actually open this way (always 2gate or 15nexus) which I guess is why I can't piece it together for some reason.
Pretty sure that vid was pre patch (wg time nerf and sentry time buff) ?
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On August 18 2011 12:19 Intensity wrote:
I watch pro games all of the time. Every time a Zerg clicks on a hatch they have lines going all over the map. Can someone explain the best way to rally all of the hatches? Is there a way to make it so the overlord doesn't fly into the main army? Also, what is the best way to bind your hotkeys as zerg? I'd love to learn the race a little better but there's no guide on how to rally all of the hatches properly.
I bind all hatch to key 5. Then put rally outside base of yours. If you have advantage change rally to hos base.
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I heard that optimal saturation for a base is 16 and maximum is 24. When terrans summon mules, does it count into the saturation number?
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On August 19 2011 00:36 frignr wrote:
I heard that optimal saturation for a base is 16 and maximum is 24. When terrans summon mules, does it count into the saturation number?
No, Mules mine over SCVs so they go above the saturation line
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On August 18 2011 12:19 Intensity wrote:
I watch pro games all of the time. Every time a Zerg clicks on a hatch they have lines going all over the map. Can someone explain the best way to rally all of the hatches? Is there a way to make it so the overlord doesn't fly into the main army? Also, what is the best way to bind your hotkeys as zerg? I'd love to learn the race a little better but there's no guide on how to rally all of the hatches properly.
most high-level players put all of their hatcheries on one hotkey; this makes it very easy to use larvae as soon as they are generated, thus never having idle larvae.
The best way to rally is to just right-click at a location with all of your hatcheries selected. This will rally all hatches to the same spot. You can also do this with a worker rally (orange rally line) to quickly make workers for a new expansion.
Sadly, there is no rally specifically for overlords  you have to remember to spread your overlords manually.
A good default hotkey setup for zerg:
1-4: units
5: all hatcheries
6: 1st Queen
7: 2nd Queen
8: 3rd Queen
9: 4th Queen/key tech building
0: 5th Queen/upgrade buildings
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Can someone find the destiny build for me please? I searched it on TL on Thread and Content, but no specific BO came up.
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On August 19 2011 01:39 AxelTVx wrote:
Can someone find the destiny build for me please? I searched it on TL on Thread and Content, but no specific BO came up.
tsk tsk you didn't think to search Liquipedia, the #1 SC2 strategy resource:
 Destiny build
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EPT
