EPTAs the teams get larger your influence decreases, but simultaneously you are free to specialize in more constructive unit compositions without needing to make as many core units. If you're making your core main battle units, such as marine+marauder or stalkers or whatever, then a battle will cause casualties that must be replaced. Let your allies do that grunt work. In large team games I will specialize. Mass reaper is an excellent composition for such large team games, since you can swoop in, kill buildings or workers, and be gone without losing a single reaper. Just make sure you know what you're getting into before you go in, either by scanning or requisitioning an observer from a protoss. Mass raven is very efficient as well, since dropped turrets destroy assets that require resources to replace, but themselves cost only energy. For protoss you might use dark templar or blink stalker harass, or just mass void ray or even carriers if you have the macro to get a fleet off 3+ bases in a hurry. Just because it's a bad idea in 1v1 doesn't necessarily make it inviable in large games.
How to Win 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 Games with Noobs? - Page 3
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
As the teams get larger your influence decreases, but simultaneously you are free to specialize in more constructive unit compositions without needing to make as many core units. If you're making your core main battle units, such as marine+marauder or stalkers or whatever, then a battle will cause casualties that must be replaced. Let your allies do that grunt work. In large team games I will specialize. Mass reaper is an excellent composition for such large team games, since you can swoop in, kill buildings or workers, and be gone without losing a single reaper. Just make sure you know what you're getting into before you go in, either by scanning or requisitioning an observer from a protoss. Mass raven is very efficient as well, since dropped turrets destroy assets that require resources to replace, but themselves cost only energy. For protoss you might use dark templar or blink stalker harass, or just mass void ray or even carriers if you have the macro to get a fleet off 3+ bases in a hurry. Just because it's a bad idea in 1v1 doesn't necessarily make it inviable in large games. | ||
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xVigilante
46 Posts
The key is not really skill actually. The most important is communication. You need to ask him what hes doing and maybe moderate your strategy to his to avoid arguing. If hes a bit worse then you maybe you could try and ask him for control. Also your attacks must be co-ordinated. Just because your army is 2x bigger then your ally's always attack with him. Another thing is to attack before 10 minute mark. Unless you guys successfully mass void rays or a mass unit without being rushed your probably going to lose. You can possibly give your teamates advice. But dont use like swear words or be impatient. Instead of saying "WTF WHY DID YOU MAKE 6 STARGATES" Especially if he sucks, he will have low apm and wont be able to do anything while arguing. You could say something like start expanding and stop making unit produce structures or something. When they make a successful harrass say like "nice" or "good job". They will feel better and perform better as well. | ||
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bbulzibar
United States80 Posts
3v3 and 4v4 are very different than 2v2. 2v2 plays a lot different than either 3v3 or 4v4. Below are my thoughts on 3v3 and 4v4, but NOT 2v2. If your better than your teammates, play to your strengths. For example, I'm not very good at rushing, but I am pretty good at macro games. So when they want to rush, I opt-out of the rush (but they can rush if they want) At some point you'll have to trust your teammates, so if someone is going to BC rush, I just sigh (in my head) and try to delay for as long as possible so they have time to get BCs. This means less teching and more army. In general (not always), I prefer a more robust army than cutsy stuff. This means less DTs, VRs, Mutas, hellions, in favor of a robust ground force. This is because you can save your teammates from dying and also save yourself. It isn't that good to go mutas and then have the opponent steamroll your base and hope your teammates save you. I also disagree with some other peoples opinion that you should specialize, and not get as many core units. If your good, you should be doing the 'grunt work' and the heavy lifting and let other people do the specialized cutsey stuff. My general strategy is the kill all expansions, and never attack into anyone's main. Win the resource war, especially since most maps have limited bases. I almost never talk to my teammates. I probably should, but I disagree that 'communication is everything'. communication helps, but its not everything. If you scout a forge, its good to say, 'check base for cannons' , 'DTs ' and 'his spire popping soon', but I don't say much besides that. Be very active, don't just build up and army and sit around. You should be doing a lot of poking. Most 3v3 and 4v4 players are sooooo scared to push out without everyone on their team with them. Don't be like that. Make it your business to counter what's giving your team trouble. For example, if mutas are really killing your teammates, make it yoru business to hunt them down with a fungle and hydras, or thors. If you are a better player than your teammates, you can spare the resources and try to help them out by removing any headaches for them. i.e. build some turrets for them, send an overseer to each base, etc. You want to be the 800 pound gorilla in the game. If your are the best on your team, It's your responsibility to be the muscle. Anyone can DT/VR/BC/Muta rush, but its much harder to find a great macro player that can just make and maintain huge armies of terror and doom. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States9977 Posts
On December 19 2010 18:14 Ocedic wrote: This is the most important thing ever spoken about a team game. Virtually everyone bad blames their teammates in team games instead of looking to themselves as the issue. This goes beyond just SC2 team games, but all team games. People normally just rage because they aren't good. not saying this for you however, just the next time some1 rages, just say that, hey, don't blame me, this is a team game, so it's your fault too. If you get a bad partner, this will help and teach you how to get better in solo. let's say your skill is a 3 (IF) and your teammate is a 1... lets say the other team has a 3 and a 2... so its 4 vs 5 in skill. this will teach you how to raise YOUR skill level to match the others if the other is incapable. thus, you raise your skill level to a 4 now. so next time you play, you'll be something like a 4 and 2 vs a 3 and 2. this time, you have the advantage, instead of being tied. So don't say this is a bad thing, it can help you. | ||
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bbulzibar
United States80 Posts
On December 19 2010 18:14 Ocedic wrote: This is the most important thing ever spoken about a team game. Virtually everyone bad blames their teammates in team games instead of looking to themselves as the issue. This goes beyond just SC2 team games, but all team games. I'm going to copy the guy above me because this really is a great point and I agree 100%. I think its rare to find a diamond player in 1v1, but bronze in all other leagues (because of bad teammates!). | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
That said, if your partners are mouth-breathers, it's extraordinarily difficult to pull a win through. In a recent match, one of our team mates couldn't take himself off one base play on Typhon. I transitioned into 3 Base and went Mass Muta to harass for most of the match, even knocking out one players economy and did my best to deny expansions (One of the in-Base Naturals had untouched nodes an hour into the match since I repeatedly chased off the OC that was trying to mine there) Expand and denying expands while preserving your gas as best as you can. Fight them economically, it's a long fight but you feel great when you are able to put BLs into the air against an enemy that can only make Marines, Lings, Zeals, Queens, Hellions and Prisms. | ||
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manicshock
Canada741 Posts
On topic : there's no easy way to win a 2v1 if your not awesomely skilled. I'm not awesomely skilled, but I can 2v1 against gold level players easily. I 2v1'd more or less all of my placement matches. I pretty much avoid 2v2 because of crappy people though, rather win a lot with my buddy and just roll people. I've probably had the most experience in 4v4 muscling. I'm like 47-24 plat playing mostly diamonds. It's all about your own play. I've won more then one game by walking up and killing 2-3 players armies with my tank/MM without losing much at all. A good 3 rax timing push can easily steamroll any noob, and even on maps where they are all together I basically 1v4 them and win (when they're bad). 85% of my games I'm top score, by a long shot. Sometimes you can't do much about losing though. Macro is the key to victory, and solid play. Most players tend to cheese or rush carriers/BC/whathaveyou and then I just walk up and kill them. | ||
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KezseN
Singapore1450 Posts
Ling/Bling/collosus decimates marine medievac ball = say Nice/gj/LOL One word of appreciation will help you in the long run. | ||
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
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ltran96
15 Posts
Because you are in 4v4, i recommend to go builds you wouldn't even look at in 1v1. Forexaple, one game i played in I went mass HT and zealots, which is fairly uncommon (exept in sc1/bw). Its 4v4, so experiment, and have fun with your builds. ..... also remember to communicate, TW is important too, but try to give effort and lead that push. | ||
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bball2
Canada49 Posts
Also try to stick with your teammates as much as possible, even if their army is weaker, you always want to take advantage of double or triple teaming the other teams smaller armies. | ||
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GreatFall
United States1061 Posts
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familyguy123
92 Posts
a) if everyone is really, really bad, I just outmacro everyone. b) if my opponent has passable macro, i can do one of the following - convince my partner he's bad or we're better off if i take the driver's seat, i.e. we'll win if we do resource trading. rarely works, but has worked before. if a partner asks if you're good, he would be a good candidate for this. then just tech before your opponent does. - turtle and try to catch them by surprise or have them make a mistake. if you are better than them you might be able to scout and exploit a strategic weakness, like a lack of detection. i've sniped tech buildings with banshees or warped in mass zealots to eliminate mineral lines, etc. if they are going all-in and you turtle, maybe you can roll them at 200/200, such as when they have T1-T2 units and you have T3. a lot of 2v2 players don't expect to play macro games, and don't transition speedily out of the initial rush - try some cheesy rush. if you think about where most players are initially bad, its when macro is at a premium. i.e. their 4 rax might be off, but their 10 pool is just fine. have them rush zling speed, while you give a few marines and micro a reaper or a hellions or abuse FF on ramps or whatever. in general, as far as how race influences this, you can afford to turtle if you are protoss or terran. not if you are zerg. you don't want to, in general, fight a 200/200 protoss under any circumstances. | ||
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BrenttheGreat
United States150 Posts
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