I for one am going to thank the OP for this wall-in idea. This kind of wall-in can be useful in TvZ and in TvP when coupled with a fast tank and a bunker. Yes, that kind of wall is roach proof.

Walling in TvT has no effect, a bunker can stop any barrack all-in play, and a tank can stop any ground unit. Why bother with a wall?

4Servy

Netherlands1542 Posts

July 04 2010 21:58 GMT

#22

I wall like this alot lol works great.

TossFloss

Canada606 Posts

July 04 2010 22:13 GMT

#23

I think this would only work with an FE build. Below the rax, put a bunker instead of a second supply depot.

As other players have mentioned, there are two advantages to controlling the ramp:
1. Your opponent's army is forced into an undesirable configuration - shaped sorta like a beer bottle with the neck going up the ramp, and a fatter base - while yours maintains a solid arc.
2. Vision.

peckham33

United States267 Posts

July 04 2010 22:31 GMT

#24

i just though of something and could someone try it out since i don't have the map editor anymore. (i rage deleted it when beta went down along with all the other SC2 program files). if you put a bunker back on a cliff enough that they can't see it on the edge then as long as that wall last tey can't even see you without risking their air. have multiple bunkers and a few seige tanks and have this wall. they have to break down the wall to even see the guys who are slaughtering them. put a second wall and they are stuck even longer.

figq

12519 Posts

July 04 2010 23:28 GMT

#25

One very small additional advantage - you keep the enemy entirely low ground, while your army could reach some of his units from the high ground.

stet_tcl

Greece319 Posts

July 04 2010 23:34 GMT

#26

I agree with all the people that disagreed before me: No vision advantage, huge concave for attackers, very little repair space.
The only situation this would be useful imo is if you want to be aggressive very early on for example with a 9 or 10 rax. You can build it at the bottom of your ramp as a semi-proxy, especially in maps with a long distance from main to nat and be able to defend from backstabs and counter attacks...

I used to do a similar wall on Steppes in PvZ when I opened 10 Gate so that if the rush fails you don't get owned by lings immediately. If all goes well, you add a forge next to the existing Gate and expo nicely.

With a normal bo however this kind of wall has no advantage what so ever.

Thoreezhea1

United States532 Posts

July 05 2010 01:07 GMT

#27

the only way i could see this possibly working is if you were to wall off with 2 production buildings, make your opponent build melee (assuming that the bunker isn't there) meaning zealots, lings, eteka,
he wants a good surround, quite possible considering the massive space around the wall, he thinks it is, "unnecessary" to tech to ranged units, especially considering the shitty range, supply, and min to gas ratio for roaches, lings are so much easier. why get complicated? once you have killed the scout with a marine or two, immediately move the production buildings to the top of the ramp, and wait for the ling attack to come.
ok i know it's flimsy. i am just trying to salvage something from this terrible idea.

also, double no add on barracks would work well, immediately adding one after you have gotten five or so rines.

will this work or am i overthinking it???? also , it would only work vs zerg.

AncienTs

Japan227 Posts

July 05 2010 01:13 GMT

#28

what about walling off your opponent's ramp. then lifting the barracks and replacing the hole with a bunker. boom. risky cheese to try in the name of fun!

Fyrewolf

United States1533 Posts

July 05 2010 01:14 GMT

#29

Sometimes with something like this it can be a little hard to see all the pros and cons, but overall, I like that this is possible. Against a protoss, this sort of wall seems like a good idea against Force Field abuse. But this sort of wall is definately for a fast expand/fast tanks, solely because there is less space for units on the ramp behind the wall to defend from.

Thoreezhea1

United States532 Posts

July 05 2010 01:14 GMT

#30

the lings would be in a confined space, limiting their power, meanwhile the marines pick em off. also, it could only work vs shitty, or grandmaster players

EnderCN

United States499 Posts

July 05 2010 04:06 GMT

#31

I think I like this on incineration zone against zerg or protoss. You can deal with early cheese rushes pretty well and it is the perfect type of build to help wall in your natural on this map. A 10 barracks with this build stops a 6 or 8 pool dead and if you scout a baneling bust you can just wall with your factory and another barracks at the top of the ramp and it makes it very hard for them to bust you.

extempest

Canada77 Posts

July 05 2010 04:22 GMT

#32

seems a very effective wall off, gotta try this out when beta is up

youngminii

Australia7514 Posts

July 05 2010 05:41 GMT

#33

Bad bad bad bad bad bad idea against Protoss.
The whole idea of the wall is so that if a mass of Zealots came, only 2-3 can fit up the ramp and attack the Rax/Depot. Conversely, a HUGE amount of SCVs can come to repair the building while essentially an infinite amount of marines can stand and shoot the Zealots.

In this modified wall, the opposite goes. A HUGE amount of Zealots can attack whichever building yet only a very small number of SCVs can repair and a very small number of Marines can shoot as they're all cramped up in the small ramp.

Big no-no.

Iri

150 Posts

July 05 2010 06:11 GMT

#34

On July 05 2010 14:41 youngminii wrote:
The whole idea of the wall is so that if a mass of Zealots came, only 2-3 can fit up the ramp and attack the Rax/Depot. Conversely, a HUGE amount of SCVs can come to repair the building while essentially an infinite amount of marines can stand and shoot the Zealots.

In this modified wall, the opposite goes. A HUGE amount of Zealots can attack whichever building yet only a very small number of SCVs can repair and a very small number of Marines can shoot as they're all cramped up in the small ramp.

For this and other reasons, this type of wall would only work against an FE build... Z or P, obviously. If P goes FE, you have time to get enough defense up to cover your nat choke before he can apply serious zealot pressure. If Z goes FE, this is great because you should have enough time to bunker and get enough rines in support that he can't abuse the extra surface area on the production building. Plus, your nat is covered for a faster expo yourself... it actually improves your options. You'll have issues against range upgraded hydras, but you should have time before that hits.

Jollyburner

Canada190 Posts

July 05 2010 09:14 GMT

#35

just a quick re OP, i used to do this wall off method when i started

i got placed in bronze a couple times n ground up, its great at the lowest levels (bronze/silver) and viable thru mid-gold, after that its a liability.

thats not 100% accurate but as a general rule of thumb i think im in the ballpark.

the advantage is that your sealed w/less structures vs lings, zlots, etc and can wait to build next supply/structure and macro up instead, maybe chuck orbital earlier. once your opponents are getting good, you need the high ground to kill attackers (applies on all maps i can think of) without them getting a concave on your structures.

a good variation (didnt read the whole thread, maybe said already) is to get it up, then protect ur supply depot with a bunker so it cant get surrounded properly, use guys on your ramp to protect the bunker since itll be tough to repair during engagement in that position. this way its fairly safe to leave the supply down, on ctrl group, to allow natural saturation via ur main CC since even if u cant get it up in time to stop a runby, a few units on the ramp can seal the choke until you can raise it.
and i believe someone mentioned the double rax/raxfac wall, thats solid aswell obv but annoying to lift, and you will fairly quickly switch it out for a natural walloff with easier access to your nat.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

July 05 2010 10:19 GMT

#36

This would probably work pretty well in TvZ because low-tier Zerg units are all melee/short ranged. In the other matchups, this would place your depot/barracks in unnecessary danger while your units may not be able to fight back.

QueueQueue

Canada1000 Posts

July 05 2010 14:52 GMT

#37

I would like this kind of wall of with a FE follow up. I don't know if I like it much for 1 base play. As armies get bigger, this type of wall in loses its effectiveness as you allow your opponent to have the bigger concave as opposed you having the bigger concave.

TheRabidDeer

United States3806 Posts

July 05 2010 22:44 GMT

#38

On July 05 2010 06:56 TheDrill wrote:
I for one am going to thank the OP for this wall-in idea. This kind of wall-in can be useful in TvZ and in TvP when coupled with a fast tank and a bunker. Yes, that kind of wall is roach proof.

Walling in TvT has no effect, a bunker can stop any barrack all-in play, and a tank can stop any ground unit. Why bother with a wall?

It isnt that great of a wall-in for TvP. Reminds me of this PvT I played on kulas when the T walled his choke when I did a 4 warpgate push. I got free kills on his rax addon and 2 depot's because my units outranged his. If he lowers a bunker, he is still in a choke compared to my spread outside his base.