On May 21 2010 06:20 red_b wrote: not to burst anyone's bubble but the ghost mech against protoss thread had this build (ie 1 barracks into 1 factory into 1 starport) however that thread was prior to the roach change. I think as soon as T players saw that the number one thing that stopped them from using this type of build was now significantly weaker it was inevitable.
If anyone deserves credit, its avilo. IMO. Although I must say TLO has been executing this build very well and I greatly appreciate him sharing with Day9 so we could all see pro level execution of it.
qft
Also there are quite a few reps up on sc2win of korean players using a 1 fac 1 rax 1 port build from quite awhile ago (flash actually does a raven opening identical to avilo's). Showing the build on day9 though has definitely increased its popularity. TLO seems to use it really well too. Its too bad he lost to white-ra, would love to have seen it used against IdrA.
Nah, it's too bad IdrA won .
Anyways, I'm liking this. I think builds like these will make SC2.
Banelings speedlings constant pressure, before he gets pre-ignitors and seiged tanks.
Use banelings to destroy his MAJOR structures used for the wall off. Barracks first, then the factory.
Might not be cost effective, but because he only has one of each structure, it'll set him back in terms of TIME.
Tech to drops- baneling bomb his scv line.
Keep his unit count low with constant harass.
research burrow to save drones from hellion roasting, use burrowed banelings in good positions to destroy hellions.
Baneling speed catches hellions easily, giving your lings a chance to rush tanks/thor/whatever.
When he moves out, make sure you have zerglings and banelings burrowed/positioned in an area out of his sight. Behind the grass is my favorite. When you see him moving out, make sure to have your units already positioned.
These are things i never see in high level play. I've been utilizing them to great success vs any T build. Only in gold, but only because i get to play 2-3 games a day and usually leave zvz's right away, because they're boring.
T has to make sure to keep up with Z. It's hard for them to do that, if you don't let them get the second expo up. The banelings and constant pressure help with that.
Utilize queens to deal with any air- make sure you use overlord creep in your bases so they move faster.
Utilize creep tumors and ovies to maximize movespeed. Banelings + speed + creep + speedlings = awesome.
Abuse the fact he only has 1 of each structure. Literally, overrun him with cheap units, i.e zerglings. Terran doesn't have sufficient aoe (read, colossus, storm) to deal with mass zerglings, giving you time to move in your roaches or hydras or banelings or whatever unit you choose to utilize.
I love TLO and he utilizes those units really well. I just don't think this kind of unit composition will become mainstream since it's not really required vs zerg. A terran will do well with just about any route he chooses as far as pure battles go. It's more about who gets to harass more and whether the zerg can stay in the game long enough and build a better economy / outharass the terran.
It would be nice if zerg had more (or any) early game harassing options vs terran. We don't often get to see zerg harass like nydus / doomdrops since it's so gasheavy to invest on in the early/mid-game and muta harass is more risk-free to avoid the terran from pushing out early.
TLO is a great player and very fun to watch due to his more offbeat strategies.... with that being said, I dont think you can really give him too much credit for this one, it's been around for a while. He just used it (to great effect) in a more prominent setting
Billymole is right on how to deal with this. As for the roaches, some amount is necessary to deal with the prospect of the opponents 10 or so hellions.
This is a really tough build to deal with. The hardest part for me personally is when the terran mech ball starts to push out with Thor/marines/hellions/vikings/ a lot of tanks. How am I suppsoed to deal with THAT? How am I supposed to drop, and abuse his immobility and so on and so forth if my current army won't even be able to defend the incoming push? I'd be nuts to split up my forces NOW.
Oh, and for lazy Zergs. Link There's also another VOD where he does what exactly he needs to counter his build as Zerg. But I'm not putting everything up here.
Bumping this for peeps who were not in the beta. Still see a lot of high-level Terrans using this build. I did watch one interesting variation from Silver a few days ago:
Reactor on first factory, 2nd factory instead of starport. This gets you pre-igniter and thors for earlygame while keeping hellion count high. Good for maps where you will not be doing any cliff drops (metalopolis).
EPT
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