[M] (2) ESV Viridian by Monitor

On November 02 2011 10:43 LunaSaint wrote:
Interesting. It's a small map but it feels big.

♥ for filling the entire map with pathable stuff.

On November 02 2011 11:35 prodiG wrote:
nice to see you finally decided what you wanted to do with the middle!

On November 02 2011 13:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:
It's tough to say where the rocks should be added on the natural ramps, but I would say that I feel they should be to the small ramps as a) they're the smaller ramp which appears to be one FF wide and b) it has a bigger impact on rush distance.

Please note this is all based on looking at the picture.

I really like the 5th's? I think (2 o'clock and 8 o'clock), they remind me of the vastly underused 3 and 9 o'clock locations on Xel'Naga.

I think it would be interesting to see how it would play out with the two prongs in the middle connected with a singular Xel'Naga tower there, but that's just me thinking. I also think it might be interesting to see what would happen if the map were widened at the middle say.....20 hexes, just filling the extra corner space with unusable terrain.
Now I'm getting out of hand but I hope you see what I'm thinking, it would allow for some of the ramps to not be SUPER close and lined up, lengthening rush distance without changing the immediate form of the map.

On November 02 2011 13:16 monitor wrote:


Thanks!

I actually really like both of your suggestions. I think I might implement the tower idea. However I'm not sure if I want to widen the map because the would make the 4th to 4th distance (corner to corner) very far, but it is a possibility.

On November 02 2011 13:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Now I'm getting out of hand but I hope you see what I'm thinking, it would allow for some of the ramps to not be SUPER close and lined up, lengthening rush distance without changing the immediate form of the map.

the third has a tiny choke and a tiny ramp

On November 02 2011 13:49 VirgilSC2 wrote:

I haven't had an opportunity to actually test the map yet, so my view on the distances could be a bit warped, so I'll let you know when I get a chance to look at it in-game and see if that changes how i feel about the game.


Just please tell me that the mineral line at the natural is not able to be seiged from across the ledge across at the third. Also, what looks like an Overlord pillar at the natural, I think may need to move back one or two hexes, otherwise it looks to block off that side of the mineral line, and that could be a REAL problem for certain matchups. It's something I'd like to see play out BEFORE it got removed right away though, could be really dynamic.

Another thought, if you wanted to Browder up the map a little more, would be to consider making a rock'd ramp from the main down into the 5th, but that's just a theory, I'm not sure how that would effect certain matchups off the top of my head. I think it would be REALLY nice for Zerg and Protoss players, but I'm a dreamer (and a Protoss player).

If you do go with the Xel'naga tower in the middle, experiment with putting it on a low-ground area so that it doesn't suffer from Anitgitis if you know what I mean.

On November 02 2011 13:57 megapants wrote:

I agree with this suggestion a lot, as the spaces between the ramp at the natural and the ramp in the middle seem very cramped. However, as you mentioned the distance between 4th to 4th is already fairly large, and widening the map may cause some real issues.

To find a middle ground, i think you can reduce the size of the middle plateaus. This will also give you room along the right and left sides of the map to tinker around with, as I personally think that the high grounds there are a little cramped as well.

edit: another option to adjust the middle ground is to reduce the size of the gap between the plateaus, which will also give you a bit of room to play around.

Another suggestion I have is to possibly add some air space and/or unpathable high ground around/behind the 3rd, as dropping that base looks far too difficult. I don't believe dropping should be too easy to achieve (like on Terminus) but I believe that players should have the option to drop multiple places, should they decide to do so. The way the map is designed right now, it looks like a player will only be able to drop the main and the natural, which are both incredibly easy to adapt to/defend after the first drop. The third is only really vulnerable to ground (and its pretty tightly packed, even then), which not only hinders drops, but also affects muta and phoenix strategies as well.

Overall though, great map. Hope to see it on the next Korean Weekly.

On November 02 2011 16:37 EatThePath wrote:
I think this map would benefit a ton by adding a very narrow go between in the middle to bridge the two halves. This would help alleviate the binary position syndrome where the higher-mobility army dodges endlessly. Being able to cut off the retreat path by passing to either side in mid would help this a lot. But it'd be a highly position-favoured path (being so narrow, like just wide enough for one tank/thor) so it wouldn't throw off the map control aspect.

I say this because I see the only viable map split as top vs bottom (wide). If you tried to go east vs west, the attacker should have a huge advantage by pressing the natural. They can reinforce directly into the enemy 5th at essentially no cost position-wise. If the defender is positioned at the 5th already, it will frequently induce a base-race.

Can you go into more detail about your reasoning with the rocks, if the short distance seems to be that bad? I don't think it's a good solution in this case because while it increases rush distance, it does so by making an extremely large 2-way circuit layout, which is prone to armies passing on opposite sides of the map. If, however, you put a small crossing path in the center, and then you put rocks on the 3-ramp, you'll have something like Loki which I think would be cool.

On November 02 2011 17:31 ArcticRaven wrote:


How is that a vulnerability if you're not zerg ? I feel it will be extremly easy to take as terran or toss and tough to defend as zerg.

On November 02 2011 22:55 EffectS wrote:
Really liking they lay-out. However I'm not a fan of 1-sized ramps outside of the main-natural connection.