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On July 26 2012 18:50 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 18:34 Garmer wrote:On July 26 2012 18:25 Nachtwind wrote:On July 26 2012 18:19 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 11:10 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 08:06 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Slow yes, and positioning based, with an army the grows exponentialy stronger as the games goes on but without "T3" units like Protoss but by the nature of it's AOE. In short, siege tank based. Take all this away and you have Protoss 2.0 Nothing's being taken away. Battle Hellions are slower than normal, and Widow Mines are all about strategic positioning. The Warhound, on the other hand, is intended to fill the gap when it comes to being able to fight Protoss. Mech is being expanded upon, that's Blizzard's focus. Don't be so narrow-minded, it's nothing like Protoss. I was referring specifically to the BH+WH combo (and mines) and that is not expanding upon anything, is "noobifing?" it. I am not narrow minded, i am pissed that Blizzards solution is a borring 1a unit that will, possibly, make the Tank even more of a specialized unit then it already is. You are just happy that you will have a strong and easy to use army to get some easier wins then you get with bio and all the work that has to be done with harassing. Clever, pull race bias. I'm probably one of the least biased players out there. If you didn't notice, I'm a melee mapmaker, so that means 2 things straight off the bat: 1) I don't play that much. Honestly, I don't care personally. While I want SC2 to be successful as an e-sport, when it comes to my in-game performance, I couldn't care less. Both of those things mean I have no reason to be biased. Quite the opposite in fact. 2) To be a successful mapmaker, you have to eliminate bias. This is easy, since it also cuts in on your ability to play the game. I have to consider the pros and cons of every conceivable map feature, and if it doesn't work well for all 3 then it's a bad design. I'm not about to waste my time doing that. Attack my logic, not the race you think I play. Because as it stands, I'd argue that I don't play any of them. Fair enough and sorry for the little "attack"  I play Terran BTW, and not only that but mech exclusively in all 3 MUs. I get pissed when i see Terran players, that have never or barely tried to put in the time to understand how mech works (in particular the siege tank) and whine that it's to strong ( in TvT) or, as we see in this thread and others, be happy that they wount have to learn anything because BH+WH is a "1-a" army. The WH makes tanks worse in TvT and almost unecesary in TvP (based on the units design and the little experience i have with the mod). Are less tanks a good thing for the game? I think not. Well if you don´t have tanks how you fight collosi+forcefield with your BHWH comp? warhound missiles have range 9, just focus fire colossi, or add viking for newbie way Haywiremissle are autocast so you can´t focus with them. Adding vikings "for an newbie way" like it´s the today common response with bio + vikings has a flaw. The thing is when ever the bio is forcefielded stalker colllosi viking dance begins and in most cases terran want to escape because you can´t have that high viking count. Then again the direct confrontation with a (more or less maxed) mech player is not what you want even now in WoL as a protoss. You can disable auto-cast and manually use it, though it would take away some of the DPS because of human + built in delay.
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On July 26 2012 19:21 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 19:06 Nachtwind wrote:On July 26 2012 18:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 18:25 Nachtwind wrote:On July 26 2012 18:19 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 11:10 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 08:06 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Slow yes, and positioning based, with an army the grows exponentialy stronger as the games goes on but without "T3" units like Protoss but by the nature of it's AOE. In short, siege tank based. Take all this away and you have Protoss 2.0 Nothing's being taken away. Battle Hellions are slower than normal, and Widow Mines are all about strategic positioning. The Warhound, on the other hand, is intended to fill the gap when it comes to being able to fight Protoss. Mech is being expanded upon, that's Blizzard's focus. Don't be so narrow-minded, it's nothing like Protoss. I was referring specifically to the BH+WH combo (and mines) and that is not expanding upon anything, is "noobifing?" it. I am not narrow minded, i am pissed that Blizzards solution is a borring 1a unit that will, possibly, make the Tank even more of a specialized unit then it already is. You are just happy that you will have a strong and easy to use army to get some easier wins then you get with bio and all the work that has to be done with harassing. Clever, pull race bias. I'm probably one of the least biased players out there. If you didn't notice, I'm a melee mapmaker, so that means 2 things straight off the bat: 1) I don't play that much. Honestly, I don't care personally. While I want SC2 to be successful as an e-sport, when it comes to my in-game performance, I couldn't care less. Both of those things mean I have no reason to be biased. Quite the opposite in fact. 2) To be a successful mapmaker, you have to eliminate bias. This is easy, since it also cuts in on your ability to play the game. I have to consider the pros and cons of every conceivable map feature, and if it doesn't work well for all 3 then it's a bad design. I'm not about to waste my time doing that. Attack my logic, not the race you think I play. Because as it stands, I'd argue that I don't play any of them. Fair enough and sorry for the little "attack" I play Terran BTW, and not only that but mech exclusively in all 3 MUs. I get pissed when i see Terran players, that have never or barely tried to put in the time to understand how mech works (in particular the siege tank) and whine that it's to strong ( in TvT) or, as we see in this thread and others, be happy that they wount have to learn anything because BH+WH is a "1-a" army. The WH makes tanks worse in TvT and almost unecesary in TvP (based on the units design and the little experience i have with the mod). Are less tanks a good thing for the game? I think not. Well if you don´t have tanks how you fight collosi+forcefield with your BHWH comp? The same way bio does. Vikings, you need some anti air anyway, and a few ghosts. Not sure if you even need Vikings though, the special attack of the WH can manualy target units, and the Collosi is a mechanical unit. Problem with your comparison: no stim, no heal. You will be forcefielded. When i take top-notch ghost controll out of the count. Well it's silly to take top-notch ghost controll out of the count because that's what pro. players have and they are the ones we are watching play. Besides,to EMP sentries is not that hard.
Good emps are a rare to watch even sometimes in GSL. But they happen. The only thing you can´t stim after the toss army =)
Btw i´m don´t saying that Warhounds suck. I say that comp only with BHWH will not be as good as one would add tanks/bansh/vikings/raven too it. I have the feeling people say okay build only hellion warhounds a click to victory and that is not true.
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did you change the mothership?
it vortexes much faster and more easy
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On July 26 2012 19:46 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 19:21 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 19:06 Nachtwind wrote:On July 26 2012 18:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 18:25 Nachtwind wrote:On July 26 2012 18:19 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 11:10 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 08:06 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Slow yes, and positioning based, with an army the grows exponentialy stronger as the games goes on but without "T3" units like Protoss but by the nature of it's AOE. In short, siege tank based. Take all this away and you have Protoss 2.0 Nothing's being taken away. Battle Hellions are slower than normal, and Widow Mines are all about strategic positioning. The Warhound, on the other hand, is intended to fill the gap when it comes to being able to fight Protoss. Mech is being expanded upon, that's Blizzard's focus. Don't be so narrow-minded, it's nothing like Protoss. I was referring specifically to the BH+WH combo (and mines) and that is not expanding upon anything, is "noobifing?" it. I am not narrow minded, i am pissed that Blizzards solution is a borring 1a unit that will, possibly, make the Tank even more of a specialized unit then it already is. You are just happy that you will have a strong and easy to use army to get some easier wins then you get with bio and all the work that has to be done with harassing. Clever, pull race bias. I'm probably one of the least biased players out there. If you didn't notice, I'm a melee mapmaker, so that means 2 things straight off the bat: 1) I don't play that much. Honestly, I don't care personally. While I want SC2 to be successful as an e-sport, when it comes to my in-game performance, I couldn't care less. Both of those things mean I have no reason to be biased. Quite the opposite in fact. 2) To be a successful mapmaker, you have to eliminate bias. This is easy, since it also cuts in on your ability to play the game. I have to consider the pros and cons of every conceivable map feature, and if it doesn't work well for all 3 then it's a bad design. I'm not about to waste my time doing that. Attack my logic, not the race you think I play. Because as it stands, I'd argue that I don't play any of them. Fair enough and sorry for the little "attack" I play Terran BTW, and not only that but mech exclusively in all 3 MUs. I get pissed when i see Terran players, that have never or barely tried to put in the time to understand how mech works (in particular the siege tank) and whine that it's to strong ( in TvT) or, as we see in this thread and others, be happy that they wount have to learn anything because BH+WH is a "1-a" army. The WH makes tanks worse in TvT and almost unecesary in TvP (based on the units design and the little experience i have with the mod). Are less tanks a good thing for the game? I think not. Well if you don´t have tanks how you fight collosi+forcefield with your BHWH comp? The same way bio does. Vikings, you need some anti air anyway, and a few ghosts. Not sure if you even need Vikings though, the special attack of the WH can manualy target units, and the Collosi is a mechanical unit. Problem with your comparison: no stim, no heal. You will be forcefielded. When i take top-notch ghost controll out of the count. Well it's silly to take top-notch ghost controll out of the count because that's what pro. players have and they are the ones we are watching play. Besides,to EMP sentries is not that hard. Good emps are a rare to watch even sometimes in GSL. But they happen. The only thing you can´t stim after the toss army =) Btw i´m don´t saying that Warhounds suck. I say that comp only with BHWH will not be as good as one would add tanks/bansh/vikings/raven too it. I have the feeling people say okay build only hellion warhounds a click to victory and that is not true.
Oh yeah, you add some other units, like ghost, vikings maybe even a few tanks (though i don't see the point). The thing i whine about is that without the tank as the core of the mech army, it just becomes a "Protoss like" army, thus a borring blob of units vs borring blob of units (from a Terrans perspective  ). For me, mech is about controling spaces and "surviving" until you can "choke" your opponent. The complete opposite of "1a".
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Tank-Ghost-Battle Hellion with Viking support is AMAZING vs Toss armies (as in destroys any ground-based composition you could name with ease). The Warhound is boring as shit and I wish they'd just replace it with the Goliath. However, my hope is that is will form a mobile part of a mech army to allow you to defend against drops and Toss warp-ins along with some hellion support.
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On July 26 2012 18:50 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 18:34 Garmer wrote:On July 26 2012 18:25 Nachtwind wrote:On July 26 2012 18:19 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 11:10 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 26 2012 08:06 NewSunshine wrote:On July 26 2012 08:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Slow yes, and positioning based, with an army the grows exponentialy stronger as the games goes on but without "T3" units like Protoss but by the nature of it's AOE. In short, siege tank based. Take all this away and you have Protoss 2.0 Nothing's being taken away. Battle Hellions are slower than normal, and Widow Mines are all about strategic positioning. The Warhound, on the other hand, is intended to fill the gap when it comes to being able to fight Protoss. Mech is being expanded upon, that's Blizzard's focus. Don't be so narrow-minded, it's nothing like Protoss. I was referring specifically to the BH+WH combo (and mines) and that is not expanding upon anything, is "noobifing?" it. I am not narrow minded, i am pissed that Blizzards solution is a borring 1a unit that will, possibly, make the Tank even more of a specialized unit then it already is. You are just happy that you will have a strong and easy to use army to get some easier wins then you get with bio and all the work that has to be done with harassing. Clever, pull race bias. I'm probably one of the least biased players out there. If you didn't notice, I'm a melee mapmaker, so that means 2 things straight off the bat: 1) I don't play that much. Honestly, I don't care personally. While I want SC2 to be successful as an e-sport, when it comes to my in-game performance, I couldn't care less. Both of those things mean I have no reason to be biased. Quite the opposite in fact. 2) To be a successful mapmaker, you have to eliminate bias. This is easy, since it also cuts in on your ability to play the game. I have to consider the pros and cons of every conceivable map feature, and if it doesn't work well for all 3 then it's a bad design. I'm not about to waste my time doing that. Attack my logic, not the race you think I play. Because as it stands, I'd argue that I don't play any of them. Fair enough and sorry for the little "attack" I play Terran BTW, and not only that but mech exclusively in all 3 MUs. I get pissed when i see Terran players, that have never or barely tried to put in the time to understand how mech works (in particular the siege tank) and whine that it's to strong ( in TvT) or, as we see in this thread and others, be happy that they wount have to learn anything because BH+WH is a "1-a" army. The WH makes tanks worse in TvT and almost unecesary in TvP (based on the units design and the little experience i have with the mod). Are less tanks a good thing for the game? I think not. Well if you don´t have tanks how you fight collosi+forcefield with your BHWH comp? warhound missiles have range 9, just focus fire colossi, or add viking for newbie way Haywiremissle are autocast so you can´t focus with them. Adding vikings "for an newbie way" like it´s the today common response with bio + vikings has a flaw. The thing is when ever the bio is forcefielded stalker colllosi viking dance begins and in most cases terran want to escape because you can´t have that high viking count. Then again the direct confrontation with a (more or less maxed) mech player is not what you want even now in WoL as a protoss.
actually you can disable the auto cast with warhound and cast the missiles manually
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On July 26 2012 18:55 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 18:15 Garmer wrote:
you tried it worng, in my test terran mech win without problem I didn't try it wrong, you obviously don't know what the same cost means. It also depends what units were you using, I said unit composition that I was using. It was HOTS Custom 2 unit tester, and I didn't test it once or twice, I tested it 10 times in a row, results were different, but I think that Terran won once.
that map for testing is shit, u can't kite/flank nothing, also you should take in consideration supply units, not only cost, and warhound is the most efficient supply unit in the game with the mines
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Hey. One of my friend who played official HOTS demo in ChinaJoy today, gave me 2 messages (may not useful...):
1. He did not find any change on Nydus. No difference with WoL.
2. The pilot of Oracle is a female with a sexy voice.
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So i played a couple TvPs.The tempest is actually pretty good.If a Toss fortifies a posision with cannons and Tempests behind you're gonna lose a lot of shit before the battle even starts.
The widow mine is only good aginst early pressure.I like the battlehellions though,you can do hellion drops,defend and buffer damage from chargelots,good unit.
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On July 26 2012 23:58 StarOFdadA wrote:
Hey. One of my friend who played official HOTS demo in ChinaJoy today, gave me 2 messages (may not useful...):
1. He did not find any change on Nydus. No difference with WoL.
2. The pilot of Oracle is a female with a sexy voice.
See if he can get anymore info.
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On July 26 2012 23:58 StarOFdadA wrote:
Hey. One of my friend who played official HOTS demo in ChinaJoy today, gave me 2 messages (may not useful...):
1. He did not find any change on Nydus. No difference with WoL.
dustin browder said at MLG that they are still working on the Nydus.
There will be different ones one that spread creap and different stuff.
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Going to be casting some live games on this today for Use Map Settings on the IGN Proleague stream at 3pm PST. If you want a chance to play, join the NA Bnet channel "iplums" at 3pm PST. Should be fun!
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On July 27 2012 02:34 DoA wrote:
Going to be casting some live games on this today for Use Map Settings on the IGN Proleague stream at 3pm PST. If you want a chance to play, join the NA Bnet channel "iplums" at 3pm PST. Should be fun!
awesome!
I wanna watch!
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On July 27 2012 00:31 DifuntO wrote:
So i played a couple TvPs.The tempest is actually pretty good.If a Toss fortifies a posision with cannons and Tempests behind you're gonna lose a lot of shit before the battle even starts.
The widow mine is only good aginst early pressure.I like the battlehellions though,you can do hellion drops,defend and buffer damage from chargelots,good unit.
Dont understand why people try to find a place for the Widow Mine in the T Ball.Its just not made for this.The Mine is for map control,not only early game.It allows you to kill that scouting stalker or cloaked banshee,also the harrasisng mutas or the Oracle and even the Observer that comes in your base.Its not a unit for fight,maybe we can use it to attach to the Swarm Hosts in time they spawn locusts,but we can just put it into the T mech ball...
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On July 27 2012 02:34 DoA wrote:
Going to be casting some live games on this today for Use Map Settings on the IGN Proleague stream at 3pm PST. If you want a chance to play, join the NA Bnet channel "iplums" at 3pm PST. Should be fun!
Link?
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Is warhound bugged on this map or is it supposed to be this insanely overpowered?
Cost 2 supply and only a little bit more resources than a stalker but when you grab a bunch of them you can destroy entire bases in seconds, it scales WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too well because of the range and additional attack. It's absolutely insane, beyond anything we've seen in this game so far.
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On July 27 2012 08:08 Asmodeusx wrote:
Is warhound bugged on this map or is it supposed to be this insanely overpowered?
Cost 2 supply and only a little bit more resources than a stalker but when you grab a bunch of them you can destroy entire bases in seconds, it scales WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too well because of the range and additional attack. It's absolutely insane, beyond anything we've seen in this game so far.
Just like the Marauder back in beta/GSL season 1, eh? Right..
Can we please stop the HOTS balance discussion in this thread and use it only for the HOTS Custom mod feedback? All Xenox did was take current unit stats from MLG and implemented them in the mod, there really is no point for balance QQ here (or anywhere for that matter). If you really can't resist, do it here, but please don't turn this thread into a big whine fest.
Btw, the IPL UMS thing that Doa did was awesome, can't wait for next week!
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On July 27 2012 09:09 Fearlezz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 08:08 Asmodeusx wrote:
Is warhound bugged on this map or is it supposed to be this insanely overpowered?
Cost 2 supply and only a little bit more resources than a stalker but when you grab a bunch of them you can destroy entire bases in seconds, it scales WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too well because of the range and additional attack. It's absolutely insane, beyond anything we've seen in this game so far. Just like the Marauder back in beta/GSL season 1, eh? Right.. Can we please stop the HOTS balance discussion in this thread and use it only for the HOTS Custom mod feedback? All Xenox did was take current unit stats from MLG and implemented them in the mod, there really is no point for balance QQ here (or anywhere for that matter). If you really can't resist, do it here, but please don't turn this thread into a big whine fest. Btw, the IPL UMS thing that Doa did was awesome, can't wait for next week!
Yeah! that basetrade at the end of the third game was sweet. Even between just ok players, seems like the new stuff makes games much more interesting to watch
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On July 27 2012 09:09 Fearlezz wrote:
Btw, the IPL UMS thing that Doa did was awesome, can't wait for next week!
Agreed. My first revision of Howling Peaks has been finished and sent to Xenox, so hopefully next week we get to see the action take place on an even more accurate version of the map. Definitely a good show to run though, good move by DoA.
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Does anyone have a link to the vod of IPL demoing it?
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EPT
