EPTThe Creep Conundrum
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
This problem shouldn't even exist, really bad job from blizzard here | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3700 Posts
The problem is that to fix it they're either gonna have to mess with the diameter of creep generated by all buildings (enlarge/shrink so that the building is the same distance from all edges of the circle, so trim off a bit of the bottom left part) or they're going to keep the diameter the same, but make the creep generate so that the circle is equidistant from the centre. Its like a pylon. Imagine if pylon power originated 1 hex to the west and 1 hex to the south, how do you solve the problem? = same thing | ||
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
On November 06 2010 07:57 bITt.mAN wrote: NO, not really bad job from Blizzard (we love Blizzard, they gave us Starcraft), its just that there are limits with having a grid system instead of being able to place buildings absolutely everywhere. It's a question of where is the center of the creep-circle. The problem is that to fix it they're either gonna have to mess with the diameter of creep generated by all buildings (enlarge/shrink so that the building is the same distance from all edges of the circle, so trim off a bit of the bottom left part) or they're going to keep the diameter the same, but make the creep generate so that the circle is equidistant from the centre. Its like a pylon. Imagine if pylon power originated 1 hex to the west and 1 hex to the south, how do you solve the problem? = same thing While this is pretty much /thread material here, Blizzard should still be made aware of the issue. Nothing wrong with slapping this up on the B.Net forums and seeing what they can do to resolve it. | ||
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
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dimfish
United States663 Posts
So first of all, I'd like to officially request from a the community a creep-focused UMS map! Okay, to the thread at hand: Barrin is definitely a perfectionist as he already stated--and if you follow the link to his VARS map symmetry thread I think funcmode's reply is relevant to this discussion also. To paraphrase: there may be a bazillion minor differences between spawns on a map, but devoid of major advantages it is generally OK because the players' actions have much, much more impact on the outcome of the game. I think the creep offset, too, doesn't break any particular spawn layouts. That said, it is good to know about this issue and so any good map maker should at least think about it. I didn't know about the offset from the creep generator, but as a habit I place a hatchery at every base on my maps to see where the usable creep is, what parts of the base are out of creep sight, etc. And we know at least two key issues that should be checked that the creep offset can affect: make sure the number of creep tumors to connect the main to the natural is the same for every spawn, and that the opportunity to defend with crawlers is the same (minerals, main chokes, all of that). The problem with creep tumors is that sometimes the range of the tumor lands in an unpathable area, like the map cells where a cliff transitions up or down, and so even though the distance between the main and nat is almost the same, one square more or less of creep can change the number of tumors needed to "get over" the cliff. So keep this in mind! @Barrin: you are ridiculous, nice find | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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-1equalsexp(ipi)
Canada118 Posts
You can fix this issue by going into footprints and changing the creep tumor footprint. For some bizzare reason blizzard chose an even number instead of an odd number for the footprint size for creep tumors, which causes the problem. In the map I made, Hero Attack, the creep tumors do not have this issue because I changed the footprint size. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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koslain
United States70 Posts
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-1equalsexp(ipi)
Canada118 Posts
You can thank me by playing hero attack (it's on the fourth page of the north american server).  Also, I just want to say that it's not the footprint that the creep tumor has directly. Rather the creep tumor has a generate creep behaviour and this behaviour has a creep grown footprint. The creep grown footprint is a problem because they made it even rather than odd. | ||
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Qwix
531 Posts
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
If it's the former, you effectively decrease the creep radius by 1 because the properly centered circle reaches to a fractional radius. Either way you change the amount of creep you get. Is it better to have lopsided creep or misadjusted size creep?  | ||
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-1equalsexp(ipi)
Canada118 Posts
The only way you can fix this problem is by changing the size of the creep the creep tumor generated (or alternatively you could increase the size of the creep tumor from 1x1 to 2x2). So yes, there is a choice. Do you want the same sized creep or non-lopsided creep? | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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RedTerror
New Zealand742 Posts
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Lotar
132 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
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