EPTKeSPA-IEG vs OGN-MBC, whose side are you on?
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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zdd
1463 Posts
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funkie
Venezuela9374 Posts
I'm with OGN and MBC. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
Why the hell should IEG get profit for no effort over a profit grab tactic by kespa? fuck you kespa. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7212 Posts
Fuck you Kespa, and DOUBLE fuck you IEG. Money grabbing sons of bitches. | ||
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DeadVessel
United States6269 Posts
don't hurt me they're just trying to make it more professional. shit changes and MBC and OGN are making a good change difficult (besides selling rights to IEG that was fucking stupid) | ||
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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
Moreover I doubt if they really represent the gamers. They sound too much like a bunch of greedy bastards that control the players and bitch with OGN/MBC. | ||
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[Carlodajin]
Peru306 Posts
Actually the only thing that was happening and already calmed down. Is that they were getting into an agreement. And now that I remember. A lot of South Koreans were helding signs saying "We Love E-Sports" in Shinhan Masters. Which means South Korea as I expected goes for the good manners and in my opinion clever resolution of ideas. | ||
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Scarlet
Korea (South)2 Posts
take their rights by force. But, I think they just an idiot(What kind of idiot? sloopy and coward idiot). Worst of all, Kespa delete these words from their brain : Fan, viewer, audience. hmm..because I am not a good English speaker, I cannot tell you something I know and see fluently. | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
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rS.NonY
United States286 Posts
From a business perspective, it seems OGN/MBC are getting fucked. Don't feel bad for them and support them. Rather, if you really wanted the status quo to continue, you should scold OGN/MBC for not having better business capabilities because they fucked it up. As far as I can tell, KeSPA especially, as well as IEG, have "won" the business side of things and will thus get to push their agenda. As I said in my first paragraph, I like their agenda better, and I'm glad that they knew how to get it rolling. | ||
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lamarine
585 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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KizZBG
u gotta skate8152 Posts
On March 18 2007 11:24 oneofthem wrote: ¯|(°_o)/¯ Haha. That made me lol for some reason. As for whos side I am on, I just want this sorted out ASAP. | ||
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I'm sure nobody's ever thought that pro gaming can come to an end because of this. | ||
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Pressure
7326 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
On March 18 2007 12:50 CharlieMurphy wrote: I don't know whats going on, I just hope it gets resolved and starcraft continues to be played on TV. | ||
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[Carlodajin]
Peru306 Posts
On March 18 2007 06:23 Scarlet wrote: Kespa want to erase the leagues(I mean, Mbc Game Starleague and OnGame Net starleague) and take their rights by force. But, I think they just an idiot(What kind of idiot? sloopy and coward idiot). Worst of all, Kespa delete these words from their brain : Fan, viewer, audience. hmm..because I am not a good English speaker, I cannot tell you something I know and see fluently. I thought I saw you holding the sign "We Love E-Sports"!!!. To quote myself in order to understand it. A lot of South Koreans were helding signs saying "We Love E-Sports" in Shinhan Masters. Which means South Korea as I expected goes for the good manners and in my opinion clever resolution of ideas. | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
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ShabZzoY!
Great Britain760 Posts
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PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
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muramasa
Canada1299 Posts
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
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HumbleZealot
Canada508 Posts
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BuGzlToOnl
United States5918 Posts
 :p | ||
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Ghin
United States2391 Posts
you have to admit some of the leagues are set up in a confusing manner also i have no clue what im talking about | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
On March 18 2007 20:44 Ghin wrote: maybe theyll erase the leagues and have one big tournament like mortal kombat you have to admit some of the leagues are set up in a confusing manner also i have no clue what im talking about or like HIGHLANDER THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
if ONLY OGN/MBC made a joint bid for proleague INSTEAD of sitting around protesting like mad | ||
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
On March 18 2007 22:48 Plexa wrote: This whole situation is just sad.. if ONLY OGN/MBC made a joint bid for proleague INSTEAD of sitting around protesting like mad If they did, they would have acquiesced to KeSPA. | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Manatea
Korea (South)48 Posts
I'm a one of the common fans of Starcraft league in Korea and I have been reading here cuz My English is not good, so I just read for a long time... recently I felt sad you guys have no idea about what's going on in Korea so I translated long articles ...then I registered TL.net and I found I can't make new thread now...-_-;;; so I write here. I hope it helps. (I'm afraid you may not understand my translation due to my bad English) This article is from Starcraft gallery in dcinside.com, written by FR -------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 topics of recent Starcraft Scene -------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Does Kespa have rights of proleague? - Definitely NO. In fact, First plan of proleague was made by GameTV, not OGN. OGN bought and made up the plan and launched proleague. It was start of 2003 Ever proleague and Neowiz Pmang Proleague, The operating body of 2004-2006 Sky proleague was OGN and SK teletech(Now it is the part of Pantech). Kespa just cut in, stole some sponsor money and put in their name without any contracts. MBCgame was a victim too, by being forced closure of Teamleague. OGN hasn't agreed transfer of proleague's rights since 2005 united proleague started. OGN has legal trademark of proleague, Kespa has to use another logo if they launch proleague with another broadcasting station, though possibility is quite low. Note from the translator : Kespa cup, which broadcasted without OGN/MBCgame, completely failed, big sponsors are actually hesitating to invest the proleague without OGN/MBCgame) Kespa can't stop OGN/MBCgame even if OGN launches new proleague and use their proleague logo.(Proteams in Kespa may boycott the new league, as they boycotted individual leagues) It is clear which league is approved by audiences, OGN has the trademark 2. Didn't OGN/MBC treat badly on progamers? (view of performance fee) - It was good if you regard of appearance time. I'll pass 2001 and former times because it was hard time for OGN to manage business. In 2002, fee was 100,000 won(almost 100$) and it was not bad if you regard performance time(20 minutes-3 hours) and the fact that the number of viewers was not high enough. prize money was also not bad. Of course it was hard to depend on living with those fees, but it's the matter the chance to be shown on TV, not unreasonable fee. In my view, fee is quite reasonable, with the prize money that they can earn in major leagues. Rebroadcasing fee needed? well, I have nothing to say about it. 3. Didn't OGN/MBC treat badly on progamers? (view of prize money) Since Mycube Starleague, qualified 16 players got 1,500,000 won(=1,500$) is it too low? It is low 1,500$ for 3 months but it isn't for their performance time. There are no reason for players to stick to one league. It just tiny size of market or player's ability if there are only few league. It doesn't make sense the matter of "Professionalization of eSports" if they have to rely on performance fees and prize money. No pro teams can manage with only prize money and TV performance fee 4 Didn't OGN/MBC treat badly on progamers? (view of profit distribution) Some guys are insisting "OGN/MBCgame should distribute VOD and sponsor money because progamers have contributed their business profit", but it is total misconception. Distribution of profit exist as "author's royalty" on only book publication market, but not in broadcasting market. A contract consists of performance fee and prize money, there are no distribution of profit on the contract. Do players demand more money over their salary on contract if Kespa sells peudo-broadcasting fee in high price? 5. But don't commentators get high salary? I heard their annual salary is over 100,000,000won(100,000$) - according to OGN's balance sheet, OGN paid 790,000,000won(790,000$) for their workers in 2005. Does OGN can afford to pay high salary to the commentators and 30-40 staffs and performance fee for progamers? Even if you exclude temp workers, commentators' cannot get 100,000$ salary 6. Let's compare with other sports. 1) If you see the other pro sports, association has broadcasting rights, so Kespa has the rights. - As you look at the other sports, Association plans, promotes, manages, and do everything about the league, Kespa should make their own league if they want to sell the rights. I doubt Blizzard let them sell it. (In my opinion, Blizzard will not put up with it. Blizzard's policy is that sponsor money is OK but direct money is never allowed.) 2) eSports should manage by itself by making money - No pro sports in Korea can manage without sponsors. Most popular sports like baseball, soccer depend on big corporations. If it is possible, why proteams had to look for big corporation sponsors? Korean market is small, no club team culture exists, and age bracket of fans are young, which means they don't have much money. Circumstance is worse than other sports. How do Kespa make profit except for broadcasting rights? Are they going to export Starleague and get license fee?(It's nonsense) Stop barking about broadcasting rights and face the reality. 7. Simple understanding of broadcasting rights issues 1) Stealing the broadcasting rights Kespa : Hey, you must buy proleague broadcasting right from now. We have teams OGN/MBCgame : We made the league, why do we have to do that? FiFo : Broadcasting rights business will develop eSport market. blah blah blah (Short note from the translator : FiFo is side with Kespa. I recommend not to believe FiFo's articles too much. Most fans are side with OGN/MBCgame) 2) Since Kespa sold the right to IEG Kespa : Buy it from IEG IEG : 200,000,000 won(200,000$) for 1 year, you each. No exclusive rights OGN/MBCgame : Are you kidding? FiFo : With IEG, We got great chances to internationalize eSport and to advance DMB, other multimedia market, blah blah blah 3) Negotiation IEG : 200,000,000 won(200,000$) for 1 year, you each as I told you first. Copyright of broadcasted games is mine, too. Don't complain if I sell the games. OGN : I will allow broadcasting right, and pay for it. but give me exclusive rights for cable TV for 3 years. But how can you get copyright of broadcasted games? broadcasting is also important, why don't we share the copyright? MBCgame : I will pay anyway, but we deny the concept of broadcasting rights. Others are same with OGN. FiFo : Due to OGN/MBGgame, Starcraft leagues are in danger. 4) Breakdown Kespa/IEG : OK. you can refuse to buy, but your individual leagues are over. We will take new broadcasting stations, and make new leagues OGN/MBCgame : Fuck, mean creature, we will make new leagues, too FiFo : OGN/MBCgame admitted broadcasting rights but it was too late, and new game channel will be launched. blah blah blah 5) After Kespa cup Other broadcasting stations : We are not interested in your broadcasting rights Kespa&IEG : Fuck OGN/MBCgame, buy the rights, Shinhan Bank will sponsor 5 billions won(=5 millions$) -> Since no stations are interested in, they threat OGN/MBCgame again OGN/MBCgame : You broke down the negotiation... Shinhan Bank : We are still considering to be a sponsor, but no decision so far 8. Analyzing of deals(07.03.17) YY:MM:DD 1) Kespa and IEG Demand 1. OGN, MBCgame each pay 250,000,000won(250,000$) for a year and total 1.5 billions won(1.5 million$) for 3-years broadcasting rights 2. Pay additional 40% of VOD sales 3. Provide the broadcasting screens to Kespa and IEG for free Serve 1. 2007 100% supervision are broadcasting guaranteed. 2008~2009 60% supervision and 100% broadcasting guaranteed. 2. Development cost support - 1 billion won(=1 million$ per year) 3. New Media copyright guaranteed 2) OGN/MBCgame Answers) to demand 1) We each pay 130,000,000 won (130,000$) for a year and total 780,000,000 (780,000$) for 3-years broadcasting rights to demand 2) 40% of sales? not profit!? Total nonsense, to demand 3) You can't divide observing, commentary, other presentations from the screen, you should buy the screens to serve 1) Agree to serve 2) It is distribution of sponsor money, not Kespa's. It's clear fact and not a term to serve 3) You guaranteed copyright, but why do you demand screens for free? Writer's Explanation I can't approve the concept of "broadcasting rights" but let's analyze the deal anyway IEG bought the rights 1.7 billion won for 3 years but sells 1.5 billions won + 40% of VOD sales with NO EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS is mad condition. I've never heard those kind of deals. Broadcasting right is normally exclusive in particular media. Why is fee so expensive with no exclusive rights? And they insist to provide broadcasted screens of OGN/MBCgame for free It means Kespa/IEG can sell OGN/MBCgame's screen to other broadcasting stations. That's why Kespa is a robber Channels are everywhere which can't produce programs by themselves, but receive and transfer the broadcasted screens as if you watch the video tape. If Kespa buy any failed channels and transfer the OGN/MBCgame's screen, OGN/MBCgame are completely fucked. Though observing, commentary are as important as game itself, they ignore and demand free providing. They are a just robber themselves. Kespa has made no concession. Kespa just want OGN/MBCgame to be fucked New Media copyright is no worth. Deal of Kespa blocks providing screens to other media except OGN/MBCgame's own channels and VOD service.(Deal includes only broadcasting rights and VOD payments. Providing screens to other media without negotiation means violation of contract) So even if OGN/MBCgame have copyright of New Media, they can't sell by themselves. If you remember Kespa's demand was providing broadcasted screens for free, their intension is obvious. They will occupy new media first, and force OGN/MBCgame to pay. At last development cost support. Kespa insists "We can use screens because we support development cost" but you should look into the details. Now OGN/MBCgame work everything about the league, and Kespa's support is not so big. and all of money is from sponsors, not Kespa. Kespa is pretending as if they are a big donator with sponsor money OGN/MBCgame has made lot of concessions but Kespa's done nothing. New suggestions are nothing but mean tricks. Toxic provisions are everywhere to fuck up OGN/MBCgame (I hate concessions, I hope OGN/MBCgame boycott and new individual leagues with amateurs) Does Kespa really want negotiation? They told they wanted win-win game but there are no single concession but oral tricks which only look good on papers I'd like to ask how much OGN/MBCgame give up their proper rights. shut up you Kespa's fanboys. I'll kill you if you blame both and later blame OGN/MBCgame for no concessions 9. Will CJ buy MBCgame? (Note from the translator : It's wasting time to translate broadcasting law shits. I'll just summarize one sentence) MBC has no reason to sell their channel 10. Will everyone be happy if Kespa withdraw individual league boycott? let's analyze Kespa's policy 5-day proleague per week - 2005 Kespa forced to launch untied proleague to protect players from too many games and improving game quality. But actually increased number of proleague games are far more than decreased Teamleaque games. and Kespa plans to launch more proleague games Now there are 25 proleague games per week maximum, but if new plan operate, there are 45 games maximum, it intends to kill individual leagues Though they promise to protect players, improve game quality, why do they increase the number of games unreasonably? Audience rating is obvious, Individual league>Proleague. But why do they ignore what fans want, reduce individual league games and increase proleague games abnormally? They never think what fans want and seek their own benefits, don't they? Number of games must be increase even if individual league are dramatically shrunk. Do Kespa really care protection of players? Don't what they want is only to show company name on TV more frequently and make a good report for their boss? Kespa's promised I hope they hasn't forgotten yet. Globalization of eSport and diversity of eSport Let's suppose 5 day proleague and 2 day individuals at 7:00PM gold time. Then, where are other eSports game? Does your promise only intend to cheat fans, to attract the press for your fame with fake catch phrase? I'll speak one more. Shut up and don't spoil Starcraft at least Haven't they forgotten globalization yet? Other nations' are doing W3 leagues, FPS leagues by themselves. Are you going to export Starleague and get license fee? You'll be revealed as a greedy crook to all over the world people, you pig bitch with single-digit IQ We fans ask, Does Kespa work for fans? Increase number of games to protect players, Increase proleague ignoring fan's taste We demand, Stop trying to enlarge proleague that most fans hate. Quit diversity something that you will not operate and think how Starcraft leauge develope. You can help as long as you shut your mouth up. and Stop talking about fans. You are not representative of fans but just board of sponsors. General Critique I can see some Kespa fanboys who insist OGN/MBCgame has exploited players and Kespa is good for players. It's pathetic they argue performance fee is only 20$ and commentators get over 100,000$ without any proof as if they are true I felt sick they claimed performance fee is terrible though they have no ideas about broadcasting industry, so I wrote it I lost interests Starcraft scene when I read team coaches blamed OGN/MBCgame and some crazy articles side with Kespa. It is fan they have to follow but how can they threat fan to follow them? I was disappointed to them who forgot the meaning of "pros" Did I root and support for those craps? My solution is OGN/MBCgame say goodbye to Kespa and starts new fun amateur league and enjoy it. Leagues just fun to watch, fun to play, than everyone can forgot the hard life for a while... Even if leagues disappear and coaches lose their job and nowhere to go, it will be their fault. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Enjoy and I hope you got some information about recent issues. | ||
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vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
Kespa increasing Proleague's games/week from 25 to 45 to make it 5-day Proleague, although the fans prefer Starleagues, definitely seems like they're trying to weaken the individual Starleagues and try to dominate the SC market by controlling Proleague. Commanding the teams to boycott the individual leagues also shows this strategy. They also give copyright to the stations, but non-exclusive broadcast rights, so presumably IEG can sell OGN/MBC's content to other stations to broadcast, with no commentary fees? I don't think most people knew that there was a "performance fee." This is interesting but the fee isn't that high, $20, so it's not a big deal. | ||
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IriS[YY]
China330 Posts
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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FaCE_1
Canada6161 Posts
well... almost :/ but will read the post of Manatea since it look good to read as soon as I have time  | ||
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TaDa1.
655 Posts
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Corinthos
Canada1842 Posts
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Manatea
Korea (South)48 Posts
IEG/Kespa and OGN/MBCgame has come to an agreement (As I told, I'm newbie I can't make new thread now) not many detail information yet but it seems that Government came into the negotiation anyway at least we can see leagues regardless of justice. I just hope they won't try to shrink individual leagues anymore. Edited : I'm not sure yet which side's suggestion was agreed. I'll put more information after I find out. | ||
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Scarlet
Korea (South)2 Posts
Now, some people who had a demonstration in the COAX(Shinhan masters) got angry. At the authority and money, fan's voices became just a stupid talk. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
edit. after reading manatea's article Kespa's being gay. Hope they fix this soon im confused and its complicated. | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2921 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=51025 | ||
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HumbleZealot
Canada508 Posts
On March 19 2007 23:18 Manatea wrote: Hot news. IEG/Kespa and OGN/MBCgame has come to an agreement (As I told, I'm newbie I can't make new thread now) not many detail information yet but it seems that Government came into the negotiation anyway at least we can see leagues regardless of justice. I just hope they won't try to shrink individual leagues anymore. Edited : I'm not sure yet which side's suggestion was agreed. I'll put more information after I find out. I really hope IEG/KeSPA get screwed over. | ||
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EpiK
Korea (South)5757 Posts
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
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vhallee
899 Posts
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Cpt Obvious
Germany3073 Posts
MBC's got the M for "manly" I cheer for the TV stations, fuck law enforcers. | ||
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