• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:34
CEST 22:34
KST 05:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202560RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings What tournaments are world championships? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time The StarCraft 2 GOAT - An in-depth analysis Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Dewalt's Show Matches in China
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 748 users

What do you think of the WCS 2014 changes? - Page 2

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
November 22 2013 06:43 GMT
#21
Most of the changes are great. The only negative is GSL's prize distribution (ridiculous 1st -> 2nd disparity + Ro8 EU/AM earning $1k more than Ro8 GSL...) but I think that's more on GOM's marketing department than Blizzard.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
riyanme
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines940 Posts
November 22 2013 10:05 GMT
#22
Neutral...
"Okey" changes but the same end results.
-
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-22 10:12:59
November 22 2013 10:12 GMT
#23
changes are good overall.
Moderatorlickypiddy
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
November 22 2013 15:08 GMT
#24
Ill admit, I went with I don't care lol. I think Koreans will still dominate and take the money
vrok
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden2541 Posts
November 22 2013 21:11 GMT
#25
At least this will cut down on potential tournament fatigue since WCS AM/EU won't be worth watching at all.
"Starcraft 2 very easy game" - White-Ra
LastManProductions
Profile Joined September 2013
United States252 Posts
November 22 2013 23:48 GMT
#26
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote:

I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters.


Actually the people who complain about the level of play of foreigners are the posers/hipsters, nobody will miss you.
Graphicshttp://mattlast.wix.com/lastmanproduction
Op
Profile Joined November 2012
73 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-23 01:14:51
November 23 2013 01:11 GMT
#27
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote:

It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams.
While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them.
I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters.


Just curious where the limit is in this case ? Which matches are worth watching and which are not ?

Would you only watch matches between WCS Global final players, because the quality of the other players is not high enough ?

Matches are interesting due to many factors, and in my opinion it is important for SC2 to survive as a viewer sports in NA and Europe to have a platform for local talent.

If we should only be interested in the highest level play, then let's only have GSL, and do away with WCS EU and NA....
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
November 23 2013 12:47 GMT
#28
While I personally prefer watching the best players (koreans), I think there should be some tournament for the best player in AM (and EU, etc), which then has to be restricted access. There are plenty of tournament where you see the best players, proleague, OSL etc.

Yes, the global finals may not have the very best possible starting field (which would be only koreans, with maybe onne or two ecceptions), but as long it doesn't include too many newbs, it should be ok. Compare to olympics, where each nation can bring only 3 people, and in some sports the hardest part is the national qualifiers. So well, some compromise can be useful, and it seems like this new arrangement does that ok...

Or open WCS qualifiers entirely for anyone why wants to, and set up a separate AM (EU) championship, for those that are interesting in the best AM (EU) player.
TaishiCi
Profile Joined September 2013
Korea (South)211 Posts
November 24 2013 05:09 GMT
#29
On November 23 2013 10:11 Op wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote:

It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams.
While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them.
I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters.


Just curious where the limit is in this case ? Which matches are worth watching and which are not ?

Would you only watch matches between WCS Global final players, because the quality of the other players is not high enough ?

Matches are interesting due to many factors, and in my opinion it is important for SC2 to survive as a viewer sports in NA and Europe to have a platform for local talent.

If we should only be interested in the highest level play, then let's only have GSL, and do away with WCS EU and NA....

Matches worth watching are incredible shows of mechanics.
I would go as far as to say even the top players in the world show matches worth watching 60% of the time.

Sports that value story-line over skill are usually psuedo sports like WWE.
If the players actually show skills worth watching, the viewers will increase.
The fact of the current scene is that less than 10% of the matches are even watchable, while filler Korean v foreigner and foreigner v foreigner matches take up most of the time.
The talent is just not there to make sc2 into huge spectator worthy.
Spreading money out to bunch of amateur scrubs isn't going to save the scene at all, just speed up it dying.

Keeping a small, highly paid, motivated, and well marketed scene is the only practical model.
It is stupid to think that this small market would be able to support 3-5 separate scenes like foreigners want.
Football is the most popular sport in America with a huge market, but they only have 1 league.
Instead of keeping money sinks called minor leagues, they spend it on team facilities, stadiums, marketing, and support staff.
Only stressing quality of their athletes, they get the greatest athletes on Earth.
Dae Han Min Gook Man Sae!!!
Nuclease
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1049 Posts
November 26 2013 22:03 GMT
#30
On November 21 2013 10:32 Plexa wrote:
Almost perfect changes. The one drawback is the bo5 determining whether people make it into premier or not. That feels too luck based in matchup pairings. Would have preferred 8 dual tournament style groups.


One day, sweet prince. One day.
Zealots, not zee-lots. | Never forget, KTViolet, Go)Space. | You will never be as good as By.Flash, and your drops will never be as sick as MMA.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
November 27 2013 00:38 GMT
#31
It seems quite good overall, for now. We have to actually test it to see how it will work, especially the region lock features. I remain a little sceptical about the efficiency of these.

The worst change, in my opinion, is increasing the points for 1st place. It promotes less consistent players who only win once during the year and then disappear from the scene, but still can make the year finals (only to be demolished, of course), instead of someone who was relevant the whole year and has real chances for world champion.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
MidnightZL
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden203 Posts
November 27 2013 11:21 GMT
#32
On November 21 2013 12:41 Mahdi wrote:
Region lock is the most bad thing, IMO. I'mnot saying that it was not hard to compete with koreans, it's just feels like cowardness, don't you think. It will be kinda pitiful to watch players from other region in season finals, and with this mind set it will be hard to advance through koreans.


Agree, watching only foreigners would be so bloody boring koreans are needed to keep a higher quality and forces foreignes to push themselves a little harder, it's good for the game. Well let's see how it goes.
- I'm fairly certain YOLO is just Carpe Diem for stupid people - Jack Black
DusTerr
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
2520 Posts
November 27 2013 12:00 GMT
#33
I'd like more specialized poles... IE - I approve of the schedule change (more time for other tournaments). I'm more neutral on the region restrictions...
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
November 28 2013 08:41 GMT
#34
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 13:18 TJ31 wrote:
While it's a partial region lock, it's still sucks. WCS AM/EU (mostly AM) challenger league this year was depressing to watch most of the time, because skill level is too low.
Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped.
So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents".

But I guess it's the matter of preferences.
There're people who cheer for their hometown football (soccer for US people) team, no matter how much they suck. Those people probably wanted the full region lock for WCS.
And then there's people who don't give a f*ck about their lame hometown team, but they love quality football, so they watch Champions League, English Premier League etc. Those people won't agree with region lock in any form.

It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams.
While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them.
I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters.


posers/hipsters because you say so right? lol...
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
November 29 2013 13:42 GMT
#35
On November 22 2013 10:51 Mistakes wrote:
Who the hell highly disapproves of this? They're really good changes!


I for one don't see enough change. We all knew what was coming and it just isn't enough to change the landscape for the better. I don't see enough forward thinkers in this scene who can think outside of the box. If it were me I'd blow up the system, re-brand the circuit, re-empower the teams/players/organizations/hosts and introduce a system where every player benefits and improves from. I want to be impressed. The WCS does none of that and I look at this as only a patch.

You aren't going to see much change with this.
ladysman09
Profile Joined June 2013
237 Posts
November 29 2013 17:14 GMT
#36
What this means is, there will be a bunch of bronze level noob games due to the lack of Koreans. The ideal thing is 80% Koreans with some foreigners in there for warm up.
Znoz
Profile Joined January 2011
Latvia127 Posts
November 30 2013 22:07 GMT
#37
WCG died long time ago.
Only name remained.
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
December 01 2013 15:05 GMT
#38
I think the changes are good, but there is a major flaw that simply nullifies all the changes to the WCS system: I find it retarded that Koreans in AM/EU premier and challenger league can practice all year long in Korea and then fly in for a few games now and then in AM/EU. This will not help to build the AM/EU scene, quite the contrary. At least all players in EU/AM premier league should have 200 wins on the EU/AM ladder (Grandmaster obviously) before every season in order to maintain their place.

So yeah, while the changes are overall good, the actual implementation of the changes (so far) looks really poor.

I also think they could something more interesting out of challenger league tbh, but let's see how this works out. Maybe the qualifier tournaments will be much more interesting to follow now.
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
December 03 2013 16:37 GMT
#39
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 13:18 TJ31 wrote:
While it's a partial region lock, it's still sucks. WCS AM/EU (mostly AM) challenger league this year was depressing to watch most of the time, because skill level is too low.
Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped.
So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents".

But I guess it's the matter of preferences.
There're people who cheer for their hometown football (soccer for US people) team, no matter how much they suck. Those people probably wanted the full region lock for WCS.
And then there's people who don't give a f*ck about their lame hometown team, but they love quality football, so they watch Champions League, English Premier League etc. Those people won't agree with region lock in any form.

It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams.
While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them.
I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters.


It's people like you who have completely missed the point for region locking. It's not for "posers and hipsters" to care about. The concept of region locking is to create an environment that fosters development of foreign Starcraft players.

Right now, there is very little reason for a foreigner to put in the time and effort to get to the top level of SC2 - they'll just get smacked by a Korean at every tournament, even local ones. As sad as it is, any foreign gamer would be stupid to try to go Pro in SC2. They'll have a much easier and more successful career if they play LoL.

Having zero region locking allows us to watch non-stop Code S, which is totally sweet, but ends up choking out the very scene that we love.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
error_wezt
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden8 Posts
December 08 2013 00:27 GMT
#40
On November 21 2013 13:18 TJ31 wrote:
While it's a partial region lock, it's still sucks. WCS AM/EU (mostly AM) challenger league this year was depressing to watch most of the time, because skill level is too low.
Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped.
So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents".

But I guess it's the matter of preferences.
There're people who cheer for their hometown football (soccer for US people) team, no matter how much they suck. Those people probably wanted the full region lock for WCS.
And then there's people who don't give a f*ck about their lame hometown team, but they love quality football, so they watch Champions League, English Premier League etc. Those people won't agree with region lock in any form.


While this analogy is completely fine (or at least acceptable), I don't get why people would continuously compare SC2 to Football. In the world of (physical) sports, Football seems way more comparable to MOBA games or any other form of teamgames (I suppose CSGO). SC2 is more like Tennis really, or perhaps F1.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 26m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason155
Nathanias 146
BRAT_OK 59
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 580
TY 162
Aegong 31
JulyZerg 7
Dota 2
capcasts246
League of Legends
Grubby3586
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K667
oskar191
flusha56
taco 49
Super Smash Bros
Chillindude1
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu633
Other Games
tarik_tv5326
FrodaN2729
summit1g2360
Hui .223
Trikslyr55
Sick49
PPMD39
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 33
• Hupsaiya 26
• poizon28 23
• tFFMrPink 22
• LUISG 12
• Adnapsc2 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 18
• 80smullet 17
• FirePhoenix3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22484
League of Legends
• Doublelift3790
Other Games
• imaqtpie1256
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
13h 26m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
17h 26m
CSO Cup
19h 26m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
21h 26m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 12h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 17h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 21h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.