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On September 12 2010 00:45 L0thar wrote:Some retrospectively funny quotes Show nested quote +One of the key reasons why Flash got dropped this month is because he's been solved.
...it appeared as though other Terrans knew how to beat Flash.
Sadly, Flash's TvZ let him down.
But I'm aware making a PR is a hard job, you've gotta do a lot of calls which could turn out totally false, so don't take those quotes as a criticism. Plexa also made some very good calls: Show nested quote +I expect Flash to make the finals of both leagues, again. Similarly, I expect Jaedong to make the finals of both leagues as well..
and Show nested quote +And hopefully, by the end of September, we'll be able to definitively answer the question - who is the greater player? Well, it took couple days more, but hell yes we are, and without a shadow of a doubt!
It wasn't wrong, watch last games month which is what the PR is based off of, it's not all predictions for this month, it's about what happened last month.
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On September 12 2010 00:57 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 00:45 L0thar wrote:Some retrospectively funny quotes One of the key reasons why Flash got dropped this month is because he's been solved.
...it appeared as though other Terrans knew how to beat Flash.
Sadly, Flash's TvZ let him down.
But I'm aware making a PR is a hard job, you've gotta do a lot of calls which could turn out totally false, so don't take those quotes as a criticism. Plexa also made some very good calls: I expect Flash to make the finals of both leagues, again. Similarly, I expect Jaedong to make the finals of both leagues as well..
and And hopefully, by the end of September, we'll be able to definitively answer the question - who is the greater player? Well, it took couple days more, but hell yes we are, and without a shadow of a doubt! It wasn't wrong, watch last games month which is what the PR is based off of, it's not all predictions for this month, it's about what happened last month.
I could watch them over and over and I still wouldn't believe for a second that Flash has been solved or that other terrans knew how to beat him. But that wasn't my point. I shouldn't have used word "call" for the first couple of quotes, but I still consider them quite funny, if you take into account what happened right after that.
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meh SC is over for me 
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On September 11 2010 22:09 ColdLava wrote:
I believe Jaedong should get #1 in power rank. His dominant wins over Flash in WCG were outstanding.
ditto
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I dont think anyone can say Flash and jaedong difference is slightly, i am sure if JD were the one who won the last two MSL and the OSL jd fanboys were claiming he is beyond flash, so lets be real and honest and if someone refute then he is a blinded fanboy
JD hasnt won A bo5 against flash since NATE MSL , and by encountering each other so many times, plus flash winning both leagues in one season, plus being in both finals three times in a row, clearly shows who have the upper hand( and by a pretty big margin). (golden mouse FTW!)
I am sorry but hearing JD fans in the past saying how awesome was JD in comparison to flash made me rage, but at the end i had to accept it, so that you, right now Flash is so ahead of JD ,and you cant claim the 14 CC crap every JD fan say, cause flash has win over jd in every way possible even with the battle of cheeses (osl finals).
Even if you still are stuborn enough to see this, lets look at the kespa ranking to see the difference between the two, and that was not counting this OSL match cause if it do, then flash difference from jaedong would be even greater.
And by the way flash is now entittled by the korean community as the 5th Bonjwa and this time is real not even jaedong has accomplished that and all made in less than a year.
game 4, it was painfull to watch for me, i didnt like it at all, but considering how the previous matches turned out , you cant really blame it. jd never catched up with flash in any moment, also in the MSL finals JD won G4 by 2 mistakes flash made himself rather than jd godly abilities, but game 3 was really good JD won fair and square.
Note that i am just pointing the difference between these two, and not the difference of these two compared to all the rest progamers. of course JD is the second best player after flash, and its obvious he dominates like no zerg before, so that the gap below flash and jaedong is HUGE but calling the difference of these two as "slightly" shows lost of objectivity regarding SC due to fanboyism.( i am reffering about current shape not about all time, cause JD have more time playing and more external tittles obviously)
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Alright now that Flash has solidified his status I'm perfectly okay with him starting to lose.
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On September 12 2010 01:51 Jayme wrote:
Alright now that Flash has solidified his status I'm perfectly okay with him starting to lose.
Agreed. I cant ever really root against him, but now .. it just doesn't matter as much. Flash has accomplished what I thought he was capable of when watching him during Bacchus. If he loses, nobody can take what he's done away from him.
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Maybe Starcraft is over now. Not to take anything away from Flash, but I feel that the strong match ups are just getting stronger as the players are getting better. PvZ and TvZ have been worse than ever before this year I think, which made me almost (almost!) cheer for Stork vs Jaedong in the semis. It's maybe fitting to see one last terran hero on the throne though. Gz to flash, the last bonjwa. But cheers to Jaedong too, for me he is the greatest champion ever in Starcraft.
I think the match ups will just be getting worse next season, but I hope that maps and metagame can change it somehow. If there will be any pro Starcraft to watch next season, I'll be watching no matter what though.
Maps and bo's aside, the finals today really made me feel why I love Starcraft. It wasn't perfect, but it was intense and exciting.
On September 11 2010 23:22 Malinor wrote:
As a die hard Jaedong fan of course I feel sad, but really, Jaedong doesn't need us to feel sorry for him. He is a living legend, has five titles and is the best zerg ever. It's just that sometimes someone comes along and is just better than you. And who says this rivalry is over, next year everything could be different again.
PS: If anyone thought these finals were disappointing because of all the cheese, I don't know what to tell you. You people probably are very hard to please. I was sweating excitement.
I agree with everyting in this post.
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On September 12 2010 01:44 champignones wrote:
I dont think anyone can say Flash and jaedong difference is slightly, i am sure if JD were the one who won the last two MSL and the OSL jd fanboys were claiming he is beyond flash, so lets be real and honest and if someone refute then he is a blinded fanboy
JD hasnt won A bo5 against flash since NATE MSL , and by encountering each other so many times, plus flash winning both leagues in one season, plus being in both finals three times in a row, clearly shows who have the upper hand( and by a pretty big margin). (golden mouse FTW!)
I am sorry but hearing JD fans in the past saying how awesome was JD in comparison to flash made me rage, but at the end i had to accept it, so that you, right now Flash is so ahead of JD ,and you cant claim the 14 CC crap every JD fan say, cause flash has win over jd in every way possible even with the battle of cheeses (osl finals).
Even if you still are stuborn enough to see this, lets look at the kespa ranking to see the difference between the two, and that was not counting this OSL match cause if it do, then flash difference from jaedong would be even greater.
And by the way flash is now entittled by the korean community as the 5th Bonjwa and this time is real not even jaedong has accomplished that and all made in less than a year.
game 4, it was painfull to watch for me, i didnt like it at all, but considering how the previous matches turned out , you cant really blame it. jd never catched up with flash in any moment, also in the MSL finals JD won G4 by 2 mistakes flash made himself rather than jd godly abilities, but game 3 was really good JD won fair and square.
Note that i am just pointing the difference between these two, and not the difference of these two compared to all the rest progamers. of course JD is the second best player after flash, and its obvious he dominates like no zerg before, so that the gap below flash and jaedong is HUGE but calling the difference of these two as "slightly" shows lost of objectivity regarding SC due to fanboyism.( i am reffering about current shape not about all time, cause JD have more time playing and more external tittles obviously)
Man you think people think Jaedong and Flash are close because of fanboyism? Have to disagree.
Flash is better than Jaedong RIGHT NOW. It wasn't always that way. Jaedong has never had a run like Flash but he's been fighting for top dog for a longer stretch of time. Your making it sound like when you look at the broad spectrum of SC:BW that Jaedong will always be below Flash. Though I've resolved myself that Jaedong will never rise to bonjwa status since he doesn't have that level of dominance that the others had, he's still a contender for best player to play the game, and it's be stupid to not lug him and Flash together when your talking about the last people to dominate BW.
5 titles, 4 silvers, and a career that started 3 years ago. Through that time, Jaedong has always been a threat, he's always been scary, and the world of SC knows you can't let your guard down against him.
Am I taking anything away from Flash? Hell no. I've never seen anyone like him, and I respect to hell what the guy has done. This has been Flash's year, no doubt, and it's made the gap between himself and JD convincing. Doesn't make it huge.
There are still games to be played, and Jaedong can fall from grace like others before after being defeated as much as he has, or he can rebound and come back fighting. This isn't the end of their rivalry (i hope), and the fact that they are friends makes me think Jaedong isn't just going to stop trying to be top dog.
I'm biased yah, but after the OSL, I acknowledged Flash as I bonjwa, I enjoyed the games, and above all else, I respect Flash's dominance. But you can't take 1 year and use it to define an entire rivalry. I mean, come on 
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Ya, Jaedong is still a GOAT candidate. But I think Flash will pull way ahead even in that regard in the next year or so.  Right now it feels like even JD completely lacks the ability to touch him in a Bo5.
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On September 12 2010 02:12 Holgerius wrote:Ya, Jaedong is still a GOAT candidate. But I think Flash will pull way ahead even in that regard in the next year or so. Right now it feels like even JD completely lacks the ability to touch him in a Bo5.
I do feel like this at times, but honestly, JD goes into a series with some momentum, I think we'll be ok plus, as a fan I have to be optimistic :D
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i am not defining rivalry i am just saying flash is way ahead of JD right now, in the future it can change of course, perhaps well see JD get his 6th tittle and become tie with nada as the most accomplished progamer. of course as long as flash is in JD path , JD will have to sweat to earn a tittle which will give him more merit and meaning when he win his 6th tittle.
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On September 12 2010 02:17 Yxes2211 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 02:12 Holgerius wrote:Ya, Jaedong is still a GOAT candidate. But I think Flash will pull way ahead even in that regard in the next year or so. Right now it feels like even JD completely lacks the ability to touch him in a Bo5. I do feel like this at times, but honestly, JD goes into a series with some momentum, I think we'll be ok plus, as a fan I have to be optimistic :D
I think JD needs to re-evaluate his TvZ and see what could use improvement...
Question: What does being a "Goat" candidate mean exactly? Haha, apologies for my noobness...
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Alright now that Flash has solidified his position as the player of the year who wants to have dual Protoss champions??? :D
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On September 12 2010 02:25 FetusFondler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 02:17 Yxes2211 wrote:On September 12 2010 02:12 Holgerius wrote:Ya, Jaedong is still a GOAT candidate. But I think Flash will pull way ahead even in that regard in the next year or so. Right now it feels like even JD completely lacks the ability to touch him in a Bo5. I do feel like this at times, but honestly, JD goes into a series with some momentum, I think we'll be ok plus, as a fan I have to be optimistic :D I think JD needs to re-evaluate his TvZ and see what could use improvement... Question: What does being a "Goat" candidate mean exactly? Haha, apologies for my noobness...
GOAT = Greatest of all time
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Will be posted when my replacement gets online  i've seen his ranking - I approve of it!
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On September 12 2010 02:00 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 01:51 Jayme wrote:
Alright now that Flash has solidified his status I'm perfectly okay with him starting to lose. Agreed. I cant ever really root against him, but now .. it just doesn't matter as much. Flash has accomplished what I thought he was capable of when watching him during Bacchus. If he loses, nobody can take what he's done away from him.
Yes that gap where Flash didn't win any medals just felt odd. He was obviously extraordinarily skilled back then and I always felt his results didn't reflect his skill.
Well that's no longer true, he finally started to achieve results that reflected his skill level. Happy no.
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On September 12 2010 02:52 Plexa wrote:Will be posted when my replacement gets online i've seen his ranking - I approve of it!
ETA?
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On September 12 2010 02:25 FetusFondler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 02:17 Yxes2211 wrote:On September 12 2010 02:12 Holgerius wrote:Ya, Jaedong is still a GOAT candidate. But I think Flash will pull way ahead even in that regard in the next year or so. Right now it feels like even JD completely lacks the ability to touch him in a Bo5. I do feel like this at times, but honestly, JD goes into a series with some momentum, I think we'll be ok plus, as a fan I have to be optimistic :D I think JD needs to re-evaluate his TvZ and see what could use improvement... Question: What does being a "Goat" candidate mean exactly? Haha, apologies for my noobness...
I wonder, why can JD do differently that will separate himself from Flash? We've seen standard 12 hatch into 3h muta openings, 2h muta, hydra busts, 4 pool, 9pool, 3 hatch before pool greed eco, muta fakes, we've seen fast ultra.
I even think JD won the mindgames this last series, what was something many people felt JD lacked in their MSL encounter. Unfortunately, Flash showed superior skill in virtually everything.
I really feel like JD's best chances are when he secures that third gas and gets defilers out. In every series they have played, when JD had gotten defilers and weathered that tank push he was always in a good position to take the game. Everyone likes to say Flash in unstoppable late game but JD has shown he can contend with Flash's powerful macro and defensive style, his losses have come almost exclusively to timing attacks last second saves by Flash.
It may not seem like an important question, but I really wonder how much differently the series would have turned out had JD got those swarms off in game 1.
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EPT
