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On August 22 2010 12:10 swanized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 10:25 newvsoldschool wrote:On August 22 2010 09:14 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 09:01 WWJDD wrote:On August 22 2010 08:14 Cpadolf wrote:On August 22 2010 07:48 LucasWoJ wrote:
It's interesting that for the first time in a while, there is no clear dichotomy between Flash and Jaedong fans. Flash's 15-game winning streak and general domination, coupled with Jaedong's overcoming map imbalance like a man to reach his third consecutive MSL finals seem to have respectively validated the other player in the opposing fans' eyes as a legitimate, ostensibly even equal opponent. Nothing would make me happier than to see both reach the OSL finals as well. Would be pretty awesome if they did, and then split the golds in two 3-2 series. Of course it would be even more awesome if Jaedong took both, but then the scene would be less exciting  That would be awesome. But if Flash loses MSL finals. He'll go billion turrets turtle every game and will 3-0 jaedong in the OSL. That's how bad the maps are. In fact, Flash might just do that in the MSL. It might irritate fans, but it's his safest choice with PR and OE3 as the first two maps. I prefered having fantasy as the top terran When was Fantasy considered the top Terran, ever? It has always been Flash since 2008, then you have/had Mind, Fantasy, and Leta tailing behind Flash. Heck, I'd have to say I couldn't remember any other Terran on top since NaDa won OGN Masters, until Flash came along. FLash was not doing too hot for a bit back in early 2009, a few power ranks 09/01/09 1 JD 2 Fanta 5 Flash 08/04/09 1 JD 2 Fanta CBNC Flash 07/08/09 1 JD 2 Fantasy 5 FLash 06/12/09 3 JD 4 FLash 8 Fantasy 05/15/2009 (lol, posting the power rank halfway in the next month XD) 2.fantasy 4 JD 8 Flash 04/10/09 1 JD 4 Fanta 7 Flash ok I think I made my point and I can stop now
Yes, maybe he was above flash on several PRs, but did anyone ever considered Fantasy to be top terran seriously? The kid never has and never will win A starleague...
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On August 22 2010 10:25 newvsoldschool wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 09:14 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 09:01 WWJDD wrote:On August 22 2010 08:14 Cpadolf wrote:On August 22 2010 07:48 LucasWoJ wrote:
It's interesting that for the first time in a while, there is no clear dichotomy between Flash and Jaedong fans. Flash's 15-game winning streak and general domination, coupled with Jaedong's overcoming map imbalance like a man to reach his third consecutive MSL finals seem to have respectively validated the other player in the opposing fans' eyes as a legitimate, ostensibly even equal opponent. Nothing would make me happier than to see both reach the OSL finals as well. Would be pretty awesome if they did, and then split the golds in two 3-2 series. Of course it would be even more awesome if Jaedong took both, but then the scene would be less exciting That would be awesome. But if Flash loses MSL finals. He'll go billion turrets turtle every game and will 3-0 jaedong in the OSL. That's how bad the maps are. In fact, Flash might just do that in the MSL. It might irritate fans, but it's his safest choice with PR and OE3 as the first two maps. I prefered having fantasy as the top terran When was Fantasy considered the top Terran, ever? It has always been Flash since 2008, then you have/had Mind, Fantasy, and Leta tailing behind Flash. Heck, I'd have to say I couldn't remember any other Terran on top since NaDa won OGN Masters, until Flash came along.
When Fantasy lost the OSL finals 2-3 to the best PvT in the world, and then lost the next OSL finals 2-3 to the best ZvT in the world, and made the next OSL semifinals while winning the Proleague Grand Finals, he was looking pretty fucking hot. At the time, Flash was exiting every league in the Ro8 or earlier (for multiple seasons) and lost the ace match that would've put his team into the playoffs. For a period of half a year, any Protoss or Zerg in the top 7 ELO of their race would reliably defeat him in a match, including Kwanro and Backho (who was the 'seventh dragon' at the time). Fantasy was a more powerful opponent unless you were bad (or maybe Terran), in which case Flash would 100% murder you. It was reasonable to consider Fantasy the top Terran player at the time, and other Terrans were following his lead in mech TvZ and harassy TvP.
Flash emerged from that period with sick TvT and went on a 20+ win streak vs. Terran, revolutionized TvZ, hit the highest ELO ever, countered 12 Nexus PvT, and went to every finals of everything, winning about half of them. Now he's the uncontested top Terran by a very wide margin, and tied for best player in the world.
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On August 22 2010 15:10 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 10:25 newvsoldschool wrote:On August 22 2010 09:14 swanized wrote:On August 22 2010 09:01 WWJDD wrote:On August 22 2010 08:14 Cpadolf wrote:On August 22 2010 07:48 LucasWoJ wrote:
It's interesting that for the first time in a while, there is no clear dichotomy between Flash and Jaedong fans. Flash's 15-game winning streak and general domination, coupled with Jaedong's overcoming map imbalance like a man to reach his third consecutive MSL finals seem to have respectively validated the other player in the opposing fans' eyes as a legitimate, ostensibly even equal opponent. Nothing would make me happier than to see both reach the OSL finals as well. Would be pretty awesome if they did, and then split the golds in two 3-2 series. Of course it would be even more awesome if Jaedong took both, but then the scene would be less exciting That would be awesome. But if Flash loses MSL finals. He'll go billion turrets turtle every game and will 3-0 jaedong in the OSL. That's how bad the maps are. In fact, Flash might just do that in the MSL. It might irritate fans, but it's his safest choice with PR and OE3 as the first two maps. I prefered having fantasy as the top terran When was Fantasy considered the top Terran, ever? It has always been Flash since 2008, then you have/had Mind, Fantasy, and Leta tailing behind Flash. Heck, I'd have to say I couldn't remember any other Terran on top since NaDa won OGN Masters, until Flash came along. When Fantasy lost the OSL finals 2-3 to the best PvT in the world, and then lost the next OSL finals 2-3 to the best ZvT in the world, and made the next OSL semifinals while winning the Proleague Grand Finals, he was looking pretty fucking hot. At the time, Flash was exiting every league in the Ro8 or earlier (for multiple seasons) and lost the ace match that would've put his team into the playoffs. For a period of half a year, any Protoss or Zerg in the top 7 ELO of their race would reliably defeat him in a match, including Kwanro and Backho (who was the 'seventh dragon' at the time). Fantasy was a more powerful opponent unless you were bad (or maybe Terran), in which case Flash would 100% murder you. It was reasonable to consider Fantasy the top Terran player at the time, and other Terrans were following his lead in mech TvZ and harassy TvP. Flash emerged from that period with sick TvT and went on a 20+ win streak vs. Terran, revolutionized TvZ, hit the highest ELO ever, countered 12 Nexus PvT, and went to every finals of everything, winning about half of them. Now he's the uncontested top Terran by a very wide margin, and tied for best player in the world.
Well, sure Flash lost to Backho back in the days but that was actually a shocking result. You exaggerate a bit. Flash would lose to to3 at most top 5 in the match-up but note mote. Otherwise ther would be 21 better players than him during that time and it was simply not the case.
But he was indeed failing during high pressure situation. Agian though saying that KT lost playoff spots because of him is unfair. They were fighting for the playoff spot because he got over 50 wins in a regular season.
The point is that Fantasy was performing much better than Flash in the individual leagues while in general Flash would perform better in in the proleague (mainly cause he almost never loses to "weak" players).
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I never considered Fantasy to be the better player of the two. Was Kwanro a greater SC player than Flash when he reached a Starleague final (knocking out Flash on the way) while Flash didn't? Sure, Fantasy got better results in the Starleagues for a while, but it has always been pretty apparent to me that Flash had way more potential and raw skill. The kid is a true genius. The last year has been so immensly satisfying, he has finally showed everyone who didn't believe in him during the dark period that he truly is one of the all-time greats.
I feel so sad that either Flash or Jaedong has to lose next weekend.  They both better make it to the OSL final too (getting one gold each ^__^).
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I posited that whoever lost in WCG will win in the MSL. Let's do it, Flash.
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On August 22 2010 18:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I posited that whoever lost in WCG will win in the MSL. Let's do it, Flash.
Don't be silly. WCG was all fun and games. I believe Flash played in a very cavalier fashion and did not take it as seriously as JD did. But that doesn't mean he's not the favorite to win the MSL. He has two options. Turtle like he did in the first game of WCG and he has a 90% chance of winning the MSL. Don't turtle and entertain the fans and he has a 60% chance of winning the MSL. It's his MSL to lose, and this time it's not JD's form that can be blamed, but mostly the maps. If JD defeats Flash despite turtling, then he truly is in the best form of his life, and deserves a couple of free months on the PR, but so far, he hasn't shown he can beat the turtle terran on these maps yet.
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Also, even through all his failbo3s an failbo5s I knew it was just a matter of time before Flash became a force of nature. I am seeing my worst nightmare in action right now. I just hoped JD would win like a gazillion SLs before Flash hit super saiyan form, but that was not to be.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Well, there is just not much to say atm, except for stating the obvious. Flash / Jaedong are two levels above everyone else but discussing who deserves #1 is irrelevant because it obviously comes down to their big finals next week. Fantasy is also very clearly #3 without any rival and the rest of the top 10 is just not THAT interesting because all the attention goes to the big two, which is great for BW but bad for PR.
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Really the ELO gap between Flash/JD and the rest is pretty ridiculous. Which ever player wins, I'm definitely enjoying the rivalry since both appear to be in pretty awesome form. It really doesn't matter who wins when you have such enjoyable games :D
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The TL calendar says that Polaris Rhapsody is again played twice in the finals, I want to punch a baby right now. I don't wanna see another turtle-rape. Well, at least Jaedong has won his last 3 zvt's on this map, so maybe it won't get to that stage of the game.
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I wonder if Effort will be gone from power ranks, he's been horrible. Kal on the other hand, seems to be back.
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What the fuck, no SC until Friday? :O FFFFUUUUU! >:[
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On August 22 2010 23:40 Holgerius wrote:
What the fuck, no SC until Friday? :O FFFFUUUUU! >:[
Noo, what is this? I'm finally back after three weeks and now there are barely any games to be played =(
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When is teamliquid going to put up some VODS of the WCG grand final? I missed the streams last night
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On August 23 2010 00:26 ConSenT wrote:When is teamliquid going to put up some VODS of the WCG grand final? I missed the streams last night
they're up under the WorldCyberGames account
i know this has been suggested elsewhere but as a BW fan i wouldn't mind an SC2 power rank just for curiosity's sake
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On August 22 2010 23:37 Malinor wrote:
The TL calendar says that Polaris Rhapsody is again played twice in the finals, I want to punch a baby right now. I don't wanna see another turtle-rape. Well, at least Jaedong has won his last 3 zvt's on this map, so maybe it won't get to that stage of the game.
He thumbs down odd eye and somehow this always ends up being the map played twice in the bo5 lol seriously wtf poor Jaedong
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
He even won his last 4 games on Polaris Rhapsody, but you really can't count it. Two times it was a Ling All-In so I GUESS Flash will come prepared for that, unless Flash decides to play like like a Protoss and auto-gg to Jaedong making Lings in the first 7 minutes of the game. And once it was Hiya playing odd.
I also think that whatever it was that Flash (and Jaedong) did in WCG Finals had nothing to do with what they are going to do in MSL Finals, so I would not say that JD has overcome the map imba on Polaris Rhapsody in any way. So the map pool is still a really huge advantage for Flash.
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And my favourite underdog kal will own all foreigners, and flash and jaedong in the end, and then become bonjwa bigger than bisu, fuck yeah!
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On August 23 2010 03:31 DracoVolantus wrote:
And my favourite underdog kal will own all foreigners, and flash and jaedong in the end, and then become bonjwa bigger than bisu, fuck yeah!
This is where BS begins to overtake reality.
Nevertheless, a protoss is a protoss.
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EPT
