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On October 20 2009 22:25 okum wrote:
Bisu is still doing well in Proleague; it's just that his team is failing him. Flash has yet to play his OSL Ro36 group (and if he faces Mind, he could be in for a challenge). In fact only about half of this month's games have been played. I think it's way too early to call anything yet.
Dude, losing a Bo3 against Shine in OSL is inexcusable. It really doesn't matter if he wins the rest of his PL games this month, you do not deserve to be Top 3 after that. There has to be some fucking limit to the T1 bias in the PR.
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On October 20 2009 23:09 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2009 22:25 okum wrote:
Bisu is still doing well in Proleague; it's just that his team is failing him. Flash has yet to play his OSL Ro36 group (and if he faces Mind, he could be in for a challenge). In fact only about half of this month's games have been played. I think it's way too early to call anything yet. Dude, losing a Bo3 against Shine in OSL is inexcusable. It really doesn't matter if he wins the rest of his PL games this month, you do not deserve to be Top 3 after that. There has to be some fucking limit to the T1 bias in the PR.
It could be excused on grounds of the current imbstate of affairs in PvZ. Just ask Bisu and I'm sure he'll find the maps an excuse 
Fact remains, with the exception of Flash (and we'll see how that goes), the current top five don't have any starleague matches left this month, so performance will mostly have to be judged based on Proleague. We have yet to see whom of Jaedong, Calm, Bisu, Fantasy and Flash will score the most (and most important) wins.
Do note that both SKT vs Oz and SKT vs CJ is coming up. Chances are Bisu will get to whoop some Jaedong and Effort ass, maybe even in an ace match or two. Yes, Bisu is arguably the one who has something to prove right now, but let's give him that chance before jumping to conclusions.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Holy crap.
 Pusan seems to have secured a back-five spot on the next PR, doncha think?
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Most of those games are against scrubs in the prelims, but sure. As far as I'm concerned, Pusan can borrow Stork's chair until Stork solves the Khan situation.
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Rofl. ''Bisu retains his spot as number 3, because we all know he would've beaten Shine if it wasn't for the current imbalance in the match up. And OSL doesn't really matter anyway''. Wouldn't suprise me a bit. When Flash gets eliminated from Starleagues it doesn't matter if he beats Effort and reaches the final in the GOM thingy, he's completely omitted from the PR anyway. I remember the month when Bisu was knocked out of both MSL and OSL after horrible performances, and he was knocked down to a 5th place. Take that, Bisu! But yeah, Proleague matters a lot. I wonder, though, why Flash hasn't been Top 3 for like 10 months despite raping everyone in PL and being tied with Jaedong for most wins?
Flash should be a hot No1 candidate unless he fucks up majorly in OSL (not even Mind should be able to take down the best vT'er ever, and Hogil... come on? :D).
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On October 21 2009 01:26 Holgerius wrote:
Rofl. ''Bisu retains his spot as number 3, because we all know he would've beaten Shine if it wasn't for the current imbalance in the match up. And OSL doesn't really matter anyway''. Wouldn't suprise me a bit. When Flash gets eliminated from Starleagues it doesn't matter if he beats Effort and reaches the final in the GOM thingy, he's completely omitted from the PR anyway. I remember the month when Bisu was knocked out of both MSL and OSL after horrible performances, and he was knocked down to a 5th place. Take that, Bisu! But yeah, Proleague matters a lot. I wonder, though, why Flash hasn't been Top 3 for like 10 months despite raping everyone in PL and being tied with Jaedong for most wins?
Flash should be a hot No1 candidate unless he fucks up majorly in OSL (not even Mind should be able to take down the best vT'er ever, and Hogil... come on? :D).
haha... it totally blows my mind every time I remember that they dropped Flash from the PR right after he won GOM having dropped only a single game. hahaahahahahahahahaa
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On October 21 2009 01:26 Holgerius wrote:
Rofl. ''Bisu retains his spot as number 3, because we all know he would've beaten Shine if it wasn't for the current imbalance in the match up. And OSL doesn't really matter anyway''. Wouldn't suprise me a bit. When Flash gets eliminated from Starleagues it doesn't matter if he beats Effort and reaches the final in the GOM thingy, he's completely omitted from the PR anyway. I remember the month when Bisu was knocked out of both MSL and OSL after horrible performances, and he was knocked down to a 5th place. Take that, Bisu! But yeah, Proleague matters a lot. I wonder, though, why Flash hasn't been Top 3 for like 10 months despite raping everyone in PL and being tied with Jaedong for most wins?
Flash should be a hot No1 candidate unless he fucks up majorly in OSL (not even Mind should be able to take down the best vT'er ever, and Hogil... come on? :D).
Flash #1? As expected from T fanboy sigh...And what would make JD drop from his #1 spot? or Calm even?
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On October 21 2009 02:28 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 01:26 Holgerius wrote:
Rofl. ''Bisu retains his spot as number 3, because we all know he would've beaten Shine if it wasn't for the current imbalance in the match up. And OSL doesn't really matter anyway''. Wouldn't suprise me a bit. When Flash gets eliminated from Starleagues it doesn't matter if he beats Effort and reaches the final in the GOM thingy, he's completely omitted from the PR anyway. I remember the month when Bisu was knocked out of both MSL and OSL after horrible performances, and he was knocked down to a 5th place. Take that, Bisu! But yeah, Proleague matters a lot. I wonder, though, why Flash hasn't been Top 3 for like 10 months despite raping everyone in PL and being tied with Jaedong for most wins?
Flash should be a hot No1 candidate unless he fucks up majorly in OSL (not even Mind should be able to take down the best vT'er ever, and Hogil... come on? :D). Flash #1? As expected from T fanboy sigh...And what would make JD drop from his #1 spot? or Calm even?
There are still games to be played and Jaedong might very well retain his spot, especially considering the fact that we have KT vs OZ coming up. I'm not saying anything else. But thus far this month, Flash has gone 6-0 showing some incredibly high level SC (look at his TvZ's, rape doesn't even begin do describe them adequately).
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On October 21 2009 02:28 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 01:26 Holgerius wrote:
Rofl. ''Bisu retains his spot as number 3, because we all know he would've beaten Shine if it wasn't for the current imbalance in the match up. And OSL doesn't really matter anyway''. Wouldn't suprise me a bit. When Flash gets eliminated from Starleagues it doesn't matter if he beats Effort and reaches the final in the GOM thingy, he's completely omitted from the PR anyway. I remember the month when Bisu was knocked out of both MSL and OSL after horrible performances, and he was knocked down to a 5th place. Take that, Bisu! But yeah, Proleague matters a lot. I wonder, though, why Flash hasn't been Top 3 for like 10 months despite raping everyone in PL and being tied with Jaedong for most wins?
Flash should be a hot No1 candidate unless he fucks up majorly in OSL (not even Mind should be able to take down the best vT'er ever, and Hogil... come on? :D). Flash #1? As expected from T fanboy sigh...And what would make JD drop from his #1 spot? or Calm even?
It's too early to worry overly much about next month's PR, but for the sake of argument let's pretend it was coming out tomorrow. Flash is 4-0 in PL vs JD sitting at 2-1. Flash's MSL performance was incredible. I would put him at number #1. I'm not making this argument because I'm trying to convince you (I think there is a really good case for JD=#1), but can't you grant that I have a point of view that isn't just based on fanboy-ism?
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Flash is definitely outperforming JD this month. Whether that means he should be number one or not isn't really something I can answer. He's looking sharp though and he ends up keeping his win streak up I could definitely see him as number one.
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Flash is currently the hottest player, but, and I say this as Flash's die hardiest fan, there's no specific reason to knock Jaedong off his perch right now. Hottness shouldn't trump consistency in the face of massive accomplishment unless it's shit like Effort or, well, Flash going +20-3 or so. Obviously if Jaedong slips up more in PL and Flash keeps his streak up and trashes his OSL group, Flash could be a shoe in for #1, but right now I think it's very up to interpretation.
That said, Bisu and Fantasy gonna dropppp.
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I agree with the posts above but you also have to consider:
a) the difficulty of the opponents
b) not having much chance to appear =/= not playing well
c) people who were ranked lower in last month not only need to perform better than the previous #1 but the previous #1 needs to play worse because the benefit of the doubt goes to the previous #1.
That being said, time will tell and I think its too early too
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Let's hope we get an epic Flash vs Jaedong ace game to settle it. 
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On October 21 2009 04:45 Holgerius wrote:Let's hope we get an epic Flash vs Jaedong ace game to settle it.
Unfortunately, I don't think KT is going to let it get that far.
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On October 21 2009 05:11 Orbifold wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 04:45 Holgerius wrote:Let's hope we get an epic Flash vs Jaedong ace game to settle it. Unfortunately, I don't think KT is going to let it get that far.
Backho begs to differ.
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On October 21 2009 05:51 Zinbiel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 05:11 Orbifold wrote:On October 21 2009 04:45 Holgerius wrote:Let's hope we get an epic Flash vs Jaedong ace game to settle it. Unfortunately, I don't think KT is going to let it get that far. Backho begs to differ.
Lol you need some balls to be a Backho fan xD
Pretty cool.
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United States11390 Posts
On October 21 2009 05:51 Zinbiel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 05:11 Orbifold wrote:On October 21 2009 04:45 Holgerius wrote:Let's hope we get an epic Flash vs Jaedong ace game to settle it. Unfortunately, I don't think KT is going to let it get that far. Backho begs to differ.
Even if it does get that far then we can just have a repeat of this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/14126_BackHo_vs_Flash
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On October 21 2009 02:28 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2009 01:26 Holgerius wrote:
Rofl. ''Bisu retains his spot as number 3, because we all know he would've beaten Shine if it wasn't for the current imbalance in the match up. And OSL doesn't really matter anyway''. Wouldn't suprise me a bit. When Flash gets eliminated from Starleagues it doesn't matter if he beats Effort and reaches the final in the GOM thingy, he's completely omitted from the PR anyway. I remember the month when Bisu was knocked out of both MSL and OSL after horrible performances, and he was knocked down to a 5th place. Take that, Bisu! But yeah, Proleague matters a lot. I wonder, though, why Flash hasn't been Top 3 for like 10 months despite raping everyone in PL and being tied with Jaedong for most wins?
Flash should be a hot No1 candidate unless he fucks up majorly in OSL (not even Mind should be able to take down the best vT'er ever, and Hogil... come on? :D). Flash #1? As expected from T fanboy sigh...And what would make JD drop from his #1 spot? or Calm even?
I'm not saying Flash should be #1, but just look at JD's record, hes actually been losing quite a few games to opponents like luxury, stork, and zero, since his OSL win (unless you think WCG doesn't matter at all, and I'm not even counting the PL special event)
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On October 21 2009 04:24 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Flash is currently the hottest player, but, and I say this as Flash's die hardiest fan, there's no specific reason to knock Jaedong off his perch right now. Hottness shouldn't trump consistency in the face of massive accomplishment unless it's shit like Effort or, well, Flash going +20-3 or so. Obviously if Jaedong slips up more in PL and Flash keeps his streak up and trashes his OSL group, Flash could be a shoe in for #1, but right now I think it's very up to interpretation.
That said, Bisu and Fantasy gonna dropppp.
For once, I actually think  Flash might deserve to be higher than T3 does!
]I just looked- Flash has just advanced past NaDa to score the game's fourth highest ELO ever, and, needless to say is leading in ELO this month. Obviously we need to wait a little further and give  Jaedong a chance to play some games, and tear some people up, but if Flash wins out, I could see him usurping the top spot just because he's been playing so well. But regardless, it's shaping up to be a two horse race this month for #1.
I think that Bisu and fantasy will fall without question- but not as far as some people think. You wouldn't think it, but both have winning records for the month (3-2 for Bisu, 4-3 for fantasy) and both have looked very strong in proleague action. There's ample time for both players to roll in PL, and I'd expect them to drop maybe two spaces each, to #5 and #6.
Filling one of the gaps will likely be EffOrt, who is undefeated in impressive fashion in proleague. I'd give an outside chance for sKyHigh to sneak into the top 5 as well, but this is heavily contingent on his play tonight in the OSL Groupstage. If he loses to Stork, then Calm will probably remain in the top 5, he has terrible strength of schedule (two games against Reality, four against BackHo's PvZ) and lost badly to RorO in an ACE match, but a 7-2 month is hard to argue against. He should pad his record tonight against another sketchy opponent; GoRush.
That's a likely top 7- the next three slots are wide open, with Pusan, Violet,
Luxury, RorO, Hyuk, UpMaGiC, and HiyA among the possible contenders...
Time will tell.
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As a diehard Flash fan, I don't think Flash should be #1 (if the PR was today) quite yet. #2 yes (bumping Calm down one), but not #1.
Why? Because Flash has yet to prove himself against his fellow S-classers recently.
Flash is the ultimate noob sweeper. While Bisu or Jaedong are often sniped by A or B-class progamers, Flash barely ever is. That's why he has the highest win percentage, he crushes players who are worse than him consistently. That's what makes him such a proleague beast, too, he's unleashed on poor unsuspecting noobs, and he's really, really hard to cheese.
But he does poorly against Bisu and Jaedong, his S-class peers. Or at least, he has in the last few times he's played against them. I would only give Flash maybe a 40% chance to win a series against Bisu or Jaedong.
What I'm saying is that it looks sort of like this:
Jaedong/Bisu:
Against S-class opponents: ~55% win rate
Against A/B-class opponents: ~70% win rate
Flash:
Against S-class opponents: ~40% win rate
Against A/B-class opponents: ~90% win rate
So I think Flash needs to give Bisu or Jaedong (or maybe Calm, if he stays in MSL champion form) a royal beatdown before he claims #1 again. But if Jaedong just does terribly for some reason, Flash might end up with #1 anyway for lack of a better person to put there.
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EPT
