WCS Europe had its first live, in-studio matches last week, and now it's WCS America's turn. With a high possibility of multiple ZvZ's and no players who hail from 'America,' Group A isn't the ideal kickoff MLG will have wanted for such a big occasion, but.....
NESTEAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
...so I guess it doesn't really matter. Anyway, let's take a look at the group!
The first match of the group features a three-time GSL champion, the once undisputed King of Zerg vs. Zerg, and the player still known to many cultists as the creator of the universe, LG-IM's Nestea. In the other corner is the Norwegian powerhouse, HomeStoryCup VI champion, and the player who has enamored the Proleague production crew with his dashing good looks, Liquid's Snute.
We have to be honest with you here—we don't know what to expect. Nestea is a player we've seen so little of in HotS that he could either be a god or a pushover in this group. The only meaningful HotS games we've seen him play so far were his beatdowns against Apocalypse and Minigun in his Ro32 group, but really that's the bare minimum we expected from a player of his caliber. On top of that we haven't even seen him play ZvZ at all, although there is a record of him defeating DongRaeGu 2 - 1 at the recent Asian Indoor Martial Arts Qualifiers. On paper that is a really nice result, but it's just one result.
On the other hand, Snute has shown us a LOT more games in HotS, and he has played quite well after some initial hiccups around release. His ZvZ has looked pretty decent, being able to trade games against other Europeans and internationally inclined Koreans. However, Snute's recent trip to Korea for training is a complicating factor, as we have no idea what kind of gains he's made in three weeks. The only match we saw him play post-Korea was a horror show against free in Proleague, a game so fraught with mistakes that we can only put it down to nerves (unless Snute somehow got WORSE in Korea). In any case, that's a ZvP, this is ZvZ. Having Jaedong, Zenio, and Revival (the latter two still being pretty good at ZvZ, despite their troubles in other match-ups) to practice with will surely have helped Snute improve his mirror-match abilities.
All things considered, I'm more inclined to go with Nestea here. If he was going up against one of the stronger Koreans in a non-mirror I could be doubtful, but ZvZ was always his best match-up, and skill in mirrors tends to be the most easily retained. Also, it's Nestea, so if you believe in intangibles such as veteran know-how, confidence, and experience, you have to give him the edge.
After facing Crank in the WCS AM Ro32 just two weeks ago, Taiwan's Sen gets to go up against yet another Axiom Protoss in the Ro16. We all know Sen, the most foreign of all foreigners, residing in Taiwan for most of the year, making rare appearances on the international circuit where he inevitably takes 3rd or 4th place at a stacked tournament. For other players, Sen's Ro4 curse would be something to mock, but considering the difficulty of the tournaments he achieved those results at, it just goes to show how good Sen is. Strangely enough, a tournament called WCS 'America' is now Sen's best chance to become a more regular fixture in the international scene, over two years into his SC2 career.
We should all know Alicia as well, although somehow I don't think that's the actual case. Do you remember that time DRG finally won his first MLG season championship, when Stephano crushed Koreans and celebrated with champagne at NASL S3, or when TaeJa kicked off his summer of domination at MLG Summer Arena 2012? Well, Alicia was at all of those tournaments, finishing in second place each time. Arguably, finishing second place three times in the span of a month is a more impressive result than winning one single major. But as it turns out no one really cared, and Alicia ended up languishing on SlayerS for a few months, then became Jessica's most-hated person for a bit, before moving onto Axiom where he has been laying low for months.
So, where are we now with these two? Once again, it's hard to say. We only really saw Sen play HotS ZvP in his Ro32 group at WCS AM, where he beat HuK and lost to Crank, both in fairly close matches. He seemed to favor a roach-hydra style, with ultralisks being his weapon of choice in the late game—nothing too strange. Crank will surely have saved all those reps and handed them off to Alicia, which means Sen will have to play the same strats at his own risk. In HotS, Acer TeamStory Cup is the only place we've been able to see his PvZ until just a few nights ago, where he lost to Symbol in a not particularly informative match (he lost after some failed gate pressure). Due to the advantage of having a teammate who played against him so recently, I'll give the edge to Alicia here.
Overall outlook and Predictions
A lot of Zerg players complained about ZvZ being a dice-roll once it reaches the muta-stage, so one thing to look out for will be if the spore colony buff has changed anything at all. Nestea's been at work at the LG-IM laboratory, Snute down in the trenches with EG-TL, while Sen... who knows how Sen prepares, but we assume he's figured something out on the ZvZ end. Sen has always been excellent at ZvZ, and was an avid user of mutalisks even before they became the 100% standard, so he's definitely not lacking compared to the two other Zergs in this group.
Nestea > Snute Alicia > Sen Nestea > Alicia Sen > Snute Sen > Alicia
Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
Snute and Sen advance. Snute and Sen both have top 3 ZvZ among foreigners (the 3rd being Scarlett, I'd say Nerchio 4th at his prime but Nerchio has been sucking lately T_T) so unless NesTea is an peak performance today he shouldn't beat either of them. I feel like NesTea will beat Alicia and Sen will GODSTOMP Alicia, while Snute in turn would be god stomped by Alicia because Snute's strength is almost completely his ZvZ. I see Snute fortunately avoiding a confrontation with Alicia. Sen or Snute 1st, too hard to call. NesTea 3rd. Alicia 4th.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
Well, in order to do this, more changes would be required, imo:
- More korean tournaments, because many players over there try to play StarCraft 2 professionally, with only 4 tournaments every year, that's pretty hard to do. Ideally, the GSL's/OSL's are no longer the qualifier, so... kinda the same format as everywhere else.
- More korean spots for the global finals. It's simply not fair to give the same amount of spots to a MUCH weaker qualifier, imo. Better league = more spots.
But keeping the Koreans out of the foreign qualifier, then cutting most of the tournaments is a pretty bad thing to do, imo.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
Well, in order to do this, more changes would be required, imo:
- More korean tournaments, because many players over there try to play StarCraft 2 professionally, with only 4 tournaments every year, that's pretty hard to do. Ideally, the GSL's/OSL's are no longer the qualifier, so... kinda the same format as everywhere else.
- More korean spots for the global finals. It's simply not fair to give the same amount of spots to a MUCH weaker qualifier, imo. Better league = more spots.
But keeping the Koreans out of the foreign qualifier, then cutting most of the tournaments is a pretty bad thing to do, imo.
I completely forgot this was supposed to be WCS America lol. By allowing the Koreans they've made it into a complete joke of a "regional" tourney, but there's at least some good players. SHOUTcraft America is a much better tourney in terms of a regional tournament.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
out of curiousity, how much do each get? i don't get the opportunity to watch much sc2 these days
On May 20 2013 23:31 zEEzz wrote: Alicia > Sen Sen > Alicia
I'll never understand TL's bets.
Simple. They believe Sen and Alicia are close enough in ZvP skill that neither can consistently beat the other for the result to end up the same in both encounters (this happens fairly often in groups). Or rather, it could go either way.
Personally, I think Alicia beats Sen twice sadly :/. I thought his ZvP was better, but he really struggled against Crank and Huk.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
Well, in order to do this, more changes would be required, imo:
- More korean tournaments, because many players over there try to play StarCraft 2 professionally, with only 4 tournaments every year, that's pretty hard to do. Ideally, the GSL's/OSL's are no longer the qualifier, so... kinda the same format as everywhere else.
- More korean spots for the global finals. It's simply not fair to give the same amount of spots to a MUCH weaker qualifier, imo. Better league = more spots.
But keeping the Koreans out of the foreign qualifier, then cutting most of the tournaments is a pretty bad thing to do, imo.
I completely forgot this was supposed to be WCS America lol. By allowing the Koreans they've made it into a complete joke of a "regional" tourney, but there's at least some good players. SHOUTcraft America is a much better tourney in terms of a regional tournament.
Yeah but look at the quality of games in the Shoutcraft tournaments. I understand people want to watch their home nation's players but if the skill is that different it's awful to watch. If 5 NA players entered the Season 1 finals the only way one would progress even a single round is if they were against another NA player. It's not entertaining to watch plays that look bronze league compared to the GM in GSL.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
Well, Shoutcraft had up to 20k viewers. I m not sure, but i guess, that WCS America didnt make much more --> and they have the way bigger franchise name.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
Well, in order to do this, more changes would be required, imo:
- More korean tournaments, because many players over there try to play StarCraft 2 professionally, with only 4 tournaments every year, that's pretty hard to do. Ideally, the GSL's/OSL's are no longer the qualifier, so... kinda the same format as everywhere else.
- More korean spots for the global finals. It's simply not fair to give the same amount of spots to a MUCH weaker qualifier, imo. Better league = more spots.
But keeping the Koreans out of the foreign qualifier, then cutting most of the tournaments is a pretty bad thing to do, imo.
Agreed. Big independent tournaments apart from the WCS should be still there. And no doubt, there should be more slots for korea as long as the quality is much higher. Both doesnt seems impossible to manage imho.
On May 21 2013 00:27 Mindflow wrote: Why is WCS America boring af. Shoutcraft is actually entertaining
Entertaining due to the casters and pre game BM but the level of play is pretty off kilter after watching WCS EU and KR. I enjoyed it for the storylines but the games are pretty bad.
It's funny how WCS KR is as good as always, WCS EU is refreshing and interesting and WCS NA ended up some Korean-B players tournament that no NA lover will care about. So far for making the SC2 scene known or relevant in the US.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
out of curiousity, how much do each get? i don't get the opportunity to watch much sc2 these days
Every region gets 5 + 1 for the host-region. And that'd be just ridiculous if the Koreans were not allowed to participate in other regions.
I agree that the current system sucks, but just "keep the Koreans out" is not fair at all.
Agreed. Big independent tournaments apart from the WCS should be still there. And no doubt, there should be more slots for korea as long as the quality is much higher. Both doesnt seems impossible to manage imho
Well, then let's hope they'll find a solution :-P But I really don't want to see 5-6 American players in the global finals - because at least 4-5 of them would just get demolished by everyone else. And I don't think that's the idea behind the tournament xD
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
Big time yankee alert
Dude for real. Its just a big international tournament, nothing more nothing less. The NA/EU/KR tag only means the offline part will be played in those continents, nothing more nothing less. Its free to watch and it is the biggest tournament with the best players in the world ever. Dont like it, just dont watch and go somewhere else and cry.
If u like shoutcraft, go watch that but do not bitch against tournaments that have the highest level of play. I like to watch amateur zotac every sunday, but that doesnt mean its give me to right to bitch about USAUSAUSA.. regionblabla-cry... plz just go away or stop ur whining.
I recall that either NaNiwa or MaNa said, that being in Korea for short period of time actually makes you a worse player. You have to be there for longer and I think it was >1month longer
I'd love to see Snute move on but dealing with Alicia and Nestea is gonna be hard! Not to mention sen...gonna be a great set of games thanks for the write up!
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
Big time yankee alert
Dude for real. Its just a big international tournament, nothing more nothing less. The NA/EU/KR tag only means the offline part will be played in those continents, nothing more nothing less. Its free to watch and it is the biggest tournament with the best players in the world ever. Dont like it, just dont watch and go somewhere else and cry.
If u like shoutcraft, go watch that but do not bitch against tournaments that have the highest level of play. I like to watch amateur zotac every sunday, but that doesnt mean its give me to right to bitch about USAUSAUSA.. regionblabla-cry... plz just go away or stop ur whining.
Well, i dont see many arguments in this post. And expressions like "like it or go somewhere else and cry" or "just go away or stop ur whining" don´t speak for your social skills. But that is your issue. My post is not about hating or exclude someone. Its my opinion. And I feel free to post it. Its not just a big international tournament. Just check what Blizzard says about the WCS, when they launched it. They said, that they wanna build up SC2 structures in EU und NA like in Korea. Like in other sports, its not only about the skill level of the players. Its although about the regional differences, its about the players, its about personalities - and more then anything else: about the community. I m from EU, and i really like the see the best European players in the WCS EU finals. For me as a viewer, I like to have a look at the US scene, the EU scene and the korean scene. And there, i first like to see, who are the best from each region. And after that, i like to see who is the best in the world. Thats the way it works in the most popular sport events like soccer for example. Why not the same way i esports? If you have watched the EU WCS so far, then you would have seen, that there is a lot of quality, even without koreans. And i guess, the US scene can grow as well, but they need some kind of better platform. And the WCS US would be a perfect one, if it wouldnt be WCS Korea 2. If you are openminded, then just check the opinions of popular guys from the sc2-community. For example Catz http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/ Stephano said in the WCS EU group stage 2 aftershow nearly the same thing. And when u read the post of Total biscuit about the launch of Shoutcraft America, then u would see, that i m not so alone with my opinion. But maybe Catz, Stephano and Total biscuit should "go somewhere else and cry" as well...
On May 21 2013 04:10 People_0f_Color wrote: Thanks for putting a date for the event. Cause you know, we all mark every starcraft tournament on our calendar.
smh
I feel like I complain on this every day.
Well, if you look just a bit to the right you will find a calendar with Starcraft 2 tournaments including this one!
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
Okay, but you'll have 10k$ prize pool only (shoutcraft america prize pool). And American players will keep playing in a closed environment and keep being bad.
Isolating yourself is good when you're the best nation in the world. But in starcraft 2, you are not. Deal with it and understand that to make your scene grow, US players have to fight the best to deserve the prize pool in their tournaments and have a chance to become better. You should be happy that the only Koreans in WCS AM are either from non-Korean teams (Axiom, EG ...) or old stars out of shape. It gives AM a way to prove itself by fighting against known Korean without having to take down the best. Some AM players are clearly capable of doing that, and it's good for the foreign scene.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
Big time yankee alert
Dude for real. Its just a big international tournament, nothing more nothing less. The NA/EU/KR tag only means the offline part will be played in those continents, nothing more nothing less. Its free to watch and it is the biggest tournament with the best players in the world ever. Dont like it, just dont watch and go somewhere else and cry.
If u like shoutcraft, go watch that but do not bitch against tournaments that have the highest level of play. I like to watch amateur zotac every sunday, but that doesnt mean its give me to right to bitch about USAUSAUSA.. regionblabla-cry... plz just go away or stop ur whining.
Well, i dont see many arguments in this post. And expressions like "like it or go somewhere else and cry" or "just go away or stop ur whining" don´t speak for your social skills. But that is your issue. My post is not about hating or exclude someone. Its my opinion. And I feel free to post it. Its not just a big international tournament. Just check what Blizzard says about the WCS, when they launched it. They said, that they wanna build up SC2 structures in EU und NA like in Korea. Like in other sports, its not only about the skill level of the players. Its although about the regional differences, its about the players, its about personalities - and more then anything else: about the community. I m from EU, and i really like the see the best European players in the WCS EU finals. For me as a viewer, I like to have a look at the US scene, the EU scene and the korean scene. And there, i first like to see, who are the best from each region. And after that, i like to see who is the best in the world. Thats the way it works in the most popular sport events like soccer for example. Why not the same way i esports? If you have watched the EU WCS so far, then you would have seen, that there is a lot of quality, even without koreans. And i guess, the US scene can grow as well, but they need some kind of better platform. And the WCS US would be a perfect one, if it wouldnt be WCS Korea 2. If you are openminded, then just check the opinions of popular guys from the sc2-community. For example Catz http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/ Stephano said in the WCS EU group stage 2 aftershow nearly the same thing. And when u read the post of Total biscuit about the launch of Shoutcraft America, then u would see, that i m not so alone with my opinion. But maybe Catz, Stephano and Total biscuit should "go somewhere else and cry" as well...
This thread is about WCS-NA. Peeps can express there opinions whenever they want, but not in this thread plz, there are designated whine threads for that.
On the subject : Yes, i know all the opinions from the well known folks but i do not agree with them. The only way how NA-scene could get better is too compete against better players, which unfortunatly for u are not NA based (just like stephano, demu etc is EU). Blizzard arranged this for your scene thx to the seeded spots. The talent-NA-scene can get better practise in this way.
If peeps really want there regional tournaments then u can organzise one. And yes, schoutcraft is doing great 20k viewers, but i believe the quality of play, will eventually give a drop in viewernumbers 10k or less (because it is basically the same as zotaccup). The difference between shoutcraft and WCS in quality is big and i believe to big (just wait until the hype is over).
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
The hope from blizzard is that once all of it is live there will be no need for region locking because you'll have to live where you want to compete at. This won't come for another few seasons in NA/Eu regions though.
On May 20 2013 21:47 sGLA wrote: Sorry, i stil think its a mistake to allow WCS America to be WCS Korea 2. I really like the Shoutcraft America Event - There I can see the best american players atm. That is interesting. And i think, that Shoutcraft America is, what WCS America should be. I really hope blizzard will change the rules, so that WCS will be local until the Finals.
How many viewers on average for Shoutcraft America? How many viewers on average for WCS America?
Exactly.
And if you wanted to be really fair then the qualifying spots in each region should show a heavier bias to Korea just because of the global skill differential.
out of curiousity, how much do each get? i don't get the opportunity to watch much sc2 these days
Every region gets 5 + 1 for the host-region. And that'd be just ridiculous if the Koreans were not allowed to participate in other regions.
I agree that the current system sucks, but just "keep the Koreans out" is not fair at all.
Agreed. Big independent tournaments apart from the WCS should be still there. And no doubt, there should be more slots for korea as long as the quality is much higher. Both doesnt seems impossible to manage imho
Well, then let's hope they'll find a solution :-P But I really don't want to see 5-6 American players in the global finals - because at least 4-5 of them would just get demolished by everyone else. And I don't think that's the idea behind the tournament xD
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/WCS2013/America_1/artosishead.png)
NESTEAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! 
LG-IM_NesTea vs. 
free in Proleague, a game so fraught with mistakes that we can only put it down to nerves (unless Snute somehow got WORSE in Korea). In any case, that's a ZvP, this is ZvZ. Having Jaedong, Zenio, and Revival (the latter two still being pretty good at ZvZ, despite their troubles in other match-ups) to practice with will surely have helped Snute improve his mirror-match abilities.
He is a tournament player. ESET UK masters and HSC.. im not a snute fanboy, but the tournament setting seems to perfectly fit snute.
