On June 16 2012 08:21 SteveWoods wrote: MMA may certainly be considered a titan still by some, but you'd be crazy to claim him to be at the tip top of his race. When was the last impressive performance he put up anyway? Blizzard Cup?
Won IEM Kiev, didn't drop a single game through IEM World Championship until he lost to Puma and got 3rd place. Got 1st place at Iron Squid taking down aLive and Symbol on the way, the guy who reverse all-killed IM. Finally, MMA beat MKP 4-3 in the finals for the online Star Wars Final in an epic series only weeks after MKP barely lost to DRG in MLG Spring Arena 2. I'd say those are pretty consistent results
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Totally agreed. Marineking can only play well when the .tournament has no preparation time like mlg.but in gsl he just get outsmarted by other ppl strategies.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that tournaments with preparation time differ enough from tournaments without preparation time that a player's style can make him or her transcendent at one and mediocre at the other, and suppose further that this is the case with Marineking.
Even granting this, how do you support the claim that skill at preparation-style tournaments is what determines the greatest player or is in any case more important than skill in non-preparation-style tournaments?
Both skills are extremely impressive, and there's at least as much a case for Mvp lacking the second type of skill as there is for Marineking lacking the first type (which is to say, not that much of a case for either).
It's not just preparation vs none. At MLG every player is extremely tired/jetlagged. They are getting <8 hours of sleep every day. No one is playing at their peak. What MLG really measures is the player who can play closest to how good they actually are while tired and jetlagged. At GSL players are in prime condition. They always know exactly when their matches are going to be. They only play a few matches a day tops. They don't have to deal with dozens of fan surrounding them all the time. They are well rested and sleeping in their own beds. GSL is a far more accurate measure of how good players actually are.
Then there is also just the players in each. GSL has a significantly higher average skill level than MLG.
Here's where MMA took down 3 toss, including squirtle and then MKP to take the whole thing. Really get miffed when people say he's in a slump just because this result wasn't publicized as it should have been
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
Totally agreed. Marineking can only play well when the .tournament has no preparation time like mlg.but in gsl he just get outsmarted by other ppl strategies.
Let's suppose for the sake of argument that tournaments with preparation time differ enough from tournaments without preparation time that a player's style can make him or her transcendent at one and mediocre at the other, and suppose further that this is the case with Marineking.
Even granting this, how do you support the claim that skill at preparation-style tournaments is what determines the greatest player or is in any case more important than skill in non-preparation-style tournaments?
Both skills are extremely impressive, and there's at least as much a case for Mvp lacking the second type of skill as there is for Marineking lacking the first type (which is to say, not that much of a case for either).
It's not just preparation vs none. At MLG every player is extremely tired/jetlagged. They are getting <8 hours of sleep every day. No one is playing at their peak. What MLG really measures is the player who can play closest to how good they actually are while tired and jetlagged. At GSL players are in prime condition. They always know exactly when their matches are going to be. They only play a few matches a day tops. They don't have to deal with dozens of fan surrounding them all the time. They are well rested and sleeping in their own beds. GSL is a far more accurate measure of how good players actually are.
Then there is also just the players in each. GSL has a significantly higher average skill level than MLG.
Two points:
1) A player's endurance is an important skill and I think it deserves to be part of evaluating who the best player is.
2) Clearly MLGs don't only measure "who can play closest to how good they actually are while tired and jetlagged." They also must be very closely measuring the types of skills that allow players to win any tournament. Otherwise, why would you have so gigantic of an overlap in performances between MLGs and other types of tournaments?
Mvp and Marineking, contrary to popular belief, have done superbly in both, with Mvp winning an MLG and Marineking getting deep repeatedly in a ton of different GSLs (no, you don't have to win the whole thing to be impressive in a GSL). Squirtle, DRG, and MMA are also uncontroversially stupendous at both types. Bomber is inconsistently stupdendous at both. Nestea has participated in very few MLG-style events, but has made great runs when he has. Naniwa is currently in the process of demonstrating that his MLG-style skills translate to GSL, and Hero went a long way towards doing the same thing last season.
The above overlap would be inexplicable if MLGs didn't to an extremely large degree measure the same types of talent that the GSLs measure. It makes no sense to say otherwise.
Please shut up about whose the best terran none of you know what you are talking about. And when someone says arguably the #1 terran that doesnt mean hes #1 100%. thats just saying hes 1 of the best. Jeez people will argue about anything.
On June 16 2012 09:20 CFCryptos wrote: Please shut up about whose the best terran none of you know what you are talking about. And when someone says arguably the #1 terran that doesnt mean hes #1 100%. thats just saying hes 1 of the best. Jeez people will argue about anything.
"MarineKingPrime, the #1 Terran player in the world, was particularly disappointing". I don't see the word "arguably" in there do you?
On June 16 2012 09:20 CFCryptos wrote: Please shut up about whose the best terran none of you know what you are talking about. And when someone says arguably the #1 terran that doesnt mean hes #1 100%. thats just saying hes 1 of the best. Jeez people will argue about anything.
Yeah, a year ago Mvp would have been the go to guy for #1 terran, but even with his championship last season I can't say he's uncontested for that spot. Although more inconsistent than before, MKP is still a very, very, very good player. He all-killed Startale few weeks ago, as well as placing very high consecutively at MLGs. And then there are also players like Taeja, aLive, MMA, who have shown their extreme talent and their capabilities. In the end, it's really hard to tell who is the best. They're all "1 of the best".
If i remember right, MKP had to play just a day after he came back from MLG, when he dropped out in the round of 16 last season. He definetly was not well rested and could have taken that group. So I think, he can be called the best Terran in the world, I guess there are different opionions.And because of recent results in MLG´s , GSL´s and not to forget GSTL last season which Prime won with MKP as their Ace.
Because I didn't want to pointlessly annoy people who were writing these great articles out of their love for StarCraft, I've been holding in my pedantic instincts and not calling out the use of apostrophes in pluralisations like this one:
On June 16 2012 07:59 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: his last two TvZ's
But what is this?
On June 16 2012 07:59 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: After MVPKeen determine's
Thanks for the great article, this outburst notwithstanding.
Of all GSL champions (again, Fruitdealer excluded), Jjakji just seems unremarkable. MVP, Nestea, MC, DRG, and MMA are all still considered titans and at the absolute tip top of their races
Of all GSL champions (again, Fruitdealer excluded), Jjakji just seems unremarkable. MVP, Nestea, MC, DRG, and MMA are all still considered titans and at the absolute tip top of their races
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
#1 over a player that has won 4 gsl championships? Not even close.
On June 16 2012 08:11 HolyArrow wrote: As the creator of the Alicia fanclub, I must express my dissatisfaction at how the article says Alicia placed third at MLG Anaheim >:[
If i remember right, MKP had to play just a day after he came back from MLG, when he dropped out in the round of 16 last season. He definetly was not well rested and could have taken that group.
There was also him picking Taeja for his group rather than forcing a ST all-kill, an olive branch after the previous season's GSTL finals.
On June 16 2012 08:04 JJH777 wrote: MarineKing the number 1 Terran? I don't think he was the Terran that just won GSL.... Pretty sure he's the one who hasn't even passed ro16 in like a year.
LOL MKP won 2 mlg's in a row, and has been dominating everyone. He was almost the consensus #1 player in the world until the zerg buff happened...
Winning a GSL is more impressive than winning 10 MLGs.
If this were true, then Jjakji is considered a better player than MKP?
On June 16 2012 09:28 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Because I didn't want to pointlessly annoy people who were writing these great articles out of their love for StarCraft, I've been holding in my pedantic instincts and not calling out the use of apostrophes in pluralisations like this one:
MVP stopped being good at MLGS ever since his wrists became a problem since he can't play many games over a short period of time.
Personally, I believe MVP will be back at top of MLGS again once he recovers from surgery. Also, if it weren't for MVP, MKP would've won 2 GSLs by now.
EPT
