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Mafia VIII [GG]
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Good luck, everyone. | ||
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On May 16 2009 10:10 Camlito wrote: When does it start for an Aussie? It'll be 13:30 KST (TL Time). Just about three hours from right now, whenever that is there. | ||
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On May 16 2009 11:58 LucasWoJ wrote: Indeed, sultry coin-socks smirk with tree-like booked index belt. Cow petulantly rolls floor bread YES! Mafia. Don't worry guys, I have the clues to back it up. | ||
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On May 16 2009 12:05 dreamflower wrote: Yeah, that trouble-making Mountain Time resident. Hmph. By the way, I made another list of compiled profile information here (work was incredibly slow today, so I thought, "Why not?"). Please let me know if it's considered to be cluttering up the Mafia forum. I figured it was better to make a thread rather than a blog entry, as the thread doesn't need to be bumped constantly for people to find it. I don't know you, but I love you. <3 | ||
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I think I'd prefer either Ace or Showtime in the mayoral spot. Ace has proven his ability to lead in the past, as well as provided TL Mafia with it's first real glimpse at good town structuring. Showtime on the other hand has not really ever been in a leadership position but, as far as I can tell, has been a constant commodity to it's various faces throughout TL Mafia. I'd like to see how he'd approach the game from a leadership perspective. Mynock and BloodyC0bbler are known to have intelligent views in general and are active contributors in the game, but I think a leadership role needs to be more than protection for those who can pin Mafia down. So, if I were the collective town consciousness I would be aiming for Ace as Mayor and Ver as Pardoner. As is, I'm voting for Showtime, simply because I'm curious and think he might do well if given the chance. | ||
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On May 17 2009 06:28 Ver wrote: Hey MTF don't try to steal another election from me. Aw, don't worry. My intentions are purely innocent this time. Promise. On May 17 2009 06:28 Ver wrote: Innocents list: Caller 95% BC 85% What leads you to believe so? It can't simply be that they both showed intention of running for mayor before the game started, because their values are different. I'm only curious because I'm terrible at behavior analysis, haven't been in the loop for awhile, and can't see at all where you're drawing the numbers from. | ||
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1: You're really a detective and have put yourself in a position where you either get elected or everybody (including Mafia) knows your role. 2: You are posing as a detective as a Mafia member in a bid to get votes. Least likely, because you know nobody is going to vote for you. 3: You're trolling or baiting the Mafia. This one would seem the most likely as a game plan when everybody playing has some experience, but in the end you are hurting town's ability to build a structure. In any case, your explanation for your motives are rather shady. Some people PMing you with the thought that you might be blue does not logically lead to "o damn, the jig is up, gotta tell everyone now for certain". What you have done makes no good sense. | ||
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On May 17 2009 09:19 Incognito wrote: He could also be a townie trying to take a hit from mafia if he knew that nobody would vote for him. Right, but why even play the game, then? Sure, it's giving up with a purpose, but it's still giving up. | ||
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On May 17 2009 09:28 L wrote: Green townie taking a hit is a net bonus to town because we save blues. You can't go into the game expecting a worst-case scenario in which Mafia finds every blue and the only way to save them is for every normal townie to pretend they themselves are. Like I said, it's giving up with a purpose, but it's still giving up. And with no logical purpose behind it at this point in the game. | ||
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While I still think what he did was dumb and panicked, I don't think he is Mafia. Furthermore, based on some suspicions and activity of others, I believe Mafia might be worried about this turn of events. So, despite my curiosity of Showtime!'s abilities, I feel like this is a gamble where the payoff is worth it. I understand that Mafia 2 (which L keeps citing) does not prove that we should put Nemy into office. We can't learn from mistakes whose only common foundation is the lack of blind trust that an individual is telling the truth. I also understand that what Nemy has done is both forceful and either incredibly dumb or risky. There is no fault in putting no faith into what he says, but look at the (assumed) facts: - Nemy did act like he might be blue, especially in his frustrated "c'mon guys, trust me" post. - Nemy was PMed by Incognito (who confirmed) about it, though it was not several people as he had claimed. Now, looking at these two bits of information we have to assume one of three things; 1. Nemy is a DT and just panicked. 2. Nemy set himself up to look blue to others and, upon being called out on it, went into a false panic. 3. Nemy and Incognito are both in on it and set it all up. Which of these answers seems the most likely to you? | ||
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On May 18 2009 00:34 Bockit wrote: And yet you swap from showtime to nemy? What the fuck? Circumstances changed, though this does not mean that Nemy needs to be the true town leader. While I do not like Nemy in a leadership role by default, I still don't feel as heavily suspicious about him as most everybody else seems to. Whether I'm wrong for not doing so or not will have to be revealed in time, because not a single one of us can say for certain where Nemy's intentions lie. I think we should get Nemy into the Mayoral position, but have him take a back seat to whoever (hopefully Mynock or Showtime; the more the former been posting the more I think he deserves a high spot and I'm still curious about Showtime) gets into the Pardoner position. Doing this means risking revealing our bodyguard list to Mafia, but nothing else beyond that as Nemy would defer all responsibilities over to the Pardoner. Not doing it means we risk losing one of two DT's early on if he's telling the truth, and, regardless of who we put in, we still don't know the role of the person we've voted into office. The risk of voting him in is worth it to me this time. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. As is, my viewpoint is obviously way off from most of the prominent people playing and I've stated that I'm terrible at behavioral analysis in the past, so feel completely free to ignore my input in this matter. :p | ||
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On May 18 2009 03:30 Ace wrote: tsk tsk tsk MTF I know you know better than this. Shame on you. I know only two things in relation to this: 1. I logically should let the more experienced players views guide me into voting for Mynock/you. 2. I'm not going to learn anything by letting the more experienced players views guide me. If it's a mistake, it'll at least be a learning experience and I can look specifically at everything I did wrong. If my central mistake was not listening to everybody telling me I'm wrong, then that'll be what I learn. This game is more about the fun of being back in Mafia for me rather than setting up the game as secure and perfect as possible. I'll admit that openly. If my behavior is a bit less helpful than usual you know why. | ||
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On May 18 2009 03:41 Tricode wrote: It's not really about guiding, it's more about who makes the best persuasion and logical point. Right now, ask yourself, what true benefit would we gain by having nemy in the office vs someone that is as good as Ace, Mynock, Ver, and ext. I highly suggest reading the posts and just thinking to yourself which seems to be the better choice. I stand by this, I completely agree with most of what Ace and Mynock is saying. I think what their reasoning is not to have Nemy in office out weighs the reasoning to have Nemy in office. I have read every post in the thread thus far and still stand by my decision. If Nemy is really a DT, then getting him permanent protection is worth it to me. As I don't feel he lied (and freely admit I could be wrong about that) I will vote for him, but only as a puppet to whoever has the other role. I don't think that Nemy would lead as well as anybody else running and so would not look to him to be the public voice. But I do feel that saving him is a benefit worth the risk. | ||
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On May 18 2009 04:01 Tricode wrote: Well what you are doing for nemy would be basically the same idea for the more skilled players. So for instance, who would you rather have in office Ver or nemy. This would mean 1 would most likely die if not in office. So do you feel if Nemy was in office, that our chances of winning would be greater? IMO i think it would hurt us. Cause even if we can use Nemy for his DT abilities (If he is not lying) that is a skill once a night. Where Ver, Mynock, Ace, Cob's and ext. skills (if not even blue) are working at all time. Those skills to me are more valuable right there! An analyzer would be a lot more valuable cause they are working around the clock giving us this information. Nemy's part as a DT would only come in after these guys probably made a very good persuasive argument. Just as a note I'm not saying trust these guys full heartily I am just using them as examples/place holders, you can switch them with anyone who you think is trust worthy and a skillful analyzer. I agree completely that these people have skills worth saving, but no matter how you look at it, only two players are getting into office. Having one in (I'd say Mynock is looking like the best bet right now) is sufficient to me. I have little doubt that one or more of the major league runners here will get medic protection if they fall out of the race. I cannot say the same for Nemy and I believe having an outed DT in such a secure position is better than choosing just one more of the many qualified people to take the position instead. | ||
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On May 18 2009 08:53 Ver wrote: Update time! Mafia list: Ace 95% Mynock 93% mrbabyhands 92% MTF 80% L 78% Infinity21 70% Traitor: Nemy 90% Innocents list: Caller 97% BC 93% Malongo 85% Tricode 84% Lucaswoj 83% Incognito 80% Fusionsdf 77% The only person I agree with on that entire list is MrBabyHands. I'm very uncertain as to why you have L and I both so high up there when it contradicts what you said about Nemy. This indicates that you assume we've been charged with a role of confusing the town whilst simultaneously being among those that are "almost assuredly town". Your methods confuse me and knowing where at least my cards lie, I know they are flawed. | ||
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I don't know what you're basing your own suspicion on and lynching on Day 1 clues is pretty much universally agreed upon as a bad idea, but it's all I know so: Qatol turned to see what was happening when a voice spoke from behind him. “You no longer control this town. It is ours now.” Qatol turned to face this new threat, but was unable to locate the speaker. Suddenly, Qatol saw a blur as his assailant leapt at him, planting a knife in Qatol's chest. LTT's attacker came over and helped push Qatol into the water with the others. All of the above indicates that the attacker is possibly small. He is not seen by Qatol when he turns around to find who was talking, the attacker leaps to strike Qatol's chest, and may have needed whoever attacked LTT's help in pushing the body into the water. | ||
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I have a general suspect for each of our three killers today. Mafia A: + Show Spoiler + unnoticed until one of them screamed and charged at LucasWoJ. mikeymoo fled from the scuffle as the attacker pulled out a syringe and slammed it into LucasWoJ's right eye. mikeymoo was gone by the time LucasWoJ was fully injected, but he could still hear the brutality even as he fled. The assailant bellowed again and started slamming the now empty syringe into LucasWoJ's face repeatedly until his face caved in and the only sounds left were guttural yells, the squishy impacts, and the sound of blood splatter. Come morning, there would be little above the neck that could identify LucasWoJ's corpse. His unrecognizable face and shattered teeth would be no help to the authorities, but his fingerprints were sufficient. Suspect: Infundibulum Reasoning: To begin with, the attackers weapon of choice is a syringe which is funnel-shaped, as is an infundibulum. Furthermore, Lucas is stabbed in the eye, of which one section is made up of a bone that contains an infundibulum. Lucas' face then is smashed into a concave shape, which could relate to the giant tuba in Infundibulum's profile. Finally, sounds are a prominent feature in Lucas' death, especially towards the end. While it is not explicitly called music to the killer's ears, it could tie in to Infundibulum's quote: "All the sounds of the Earth are like music". Potential Flaws: If the extreme brutal nature of the Mafia character is a clue, then Infundibulum doesn't fit. Following this, I considered the syringe containing steroids (hyper-aggressive, animalistic being? why not?) but found nobody that fit that, either. Mafia B: + Show Spoiler + Meanwhile, the second intruder, initially transfixed by the brutal killing, suddenly remembered that there was another target and began the hunt. He climbed the stairs and poked his head into each of the bedrooms but couldn't find anyone. After passing the set of curtains with a conspicuous pair of shoes sticking out for the third time, he heard mikeymoo sneeze. He turned around and shot both feet, causing mikeymoo to fall from his hiding place. The man approached the writhing mikeymoo, dropped his gun, and grabbed one of his fingers. He slowly put pressure on it until it snapped and mikeymoo let out a scream that dwarfed any sounds he had made before. The attacker continued until he ran out of fingers upon which time he pulled out a knife and stabbed mikeymoo in the throat. As his life left him, mikeymoo chuckled at the absurdity of the knife solving the problem of his hoarse, sore throat. Suspect A: Dreamflower Reasoning: Our killer has a very small attention span or a very limited capability to pay attention to their surroundings, as indicated by their initially being distracted by the first killing as well as passing by Mikeymoo several times before noticing him. A person who is dreaming/daydreaming/sleepwalking (take your pick) would exhibit such a lack of conscious mental processes. Also, the way Mikeymoo ultimately dies may point to Dreamflower's profile quote: "When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers." Mikeymoo's problem of his sore throat is solved by his being killed. Potential Flaws: All of the attack excepting the end are not explained in any way. Additionally, there are signs that this Mafia, rather than being easily distracted/unthinking, may be blind/have bad vision. Note that sounds were a focus of the first Mafia's killing, and that the second Mafia member only found Mikeymoo after he sneezed. Mafia C: + Show Spoiler + In a different part of town, Fishball was running for his life. His left arm was hanging uselessly at his side, the result of a blow from the man calmly following him. Fishball finally reached the tool shed behind his house. He started fumbling with the lock in an attempt to get the axe inside. He got the door open in time for a kick from his pursuer to knock him to the floor. Fishball coughed while the other man surveyed the inside of the shed. Having made his selection, the attacker grabbed one of the tools leaning against the inside of the shed and kneeled down next to Fishball. "This would have been a lot less painful for you if you had faced me like a man. You need to develop a stronger backbone; I am going to help you with that," quipped the hit man. He then shoved the rake in his hand into Fishball from behind, handle first, as far as he could. He left Fishball flailing on the ground, coming to terms with his newfound confidence but lacking the strength to do anything with it except die. Potential Suspect: Ver Reasoning: Ver's quote, "[w]hen you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape" speaks of two things that relate to the bolded portion: confidence and rape. Fishball lacked the former, and upon calling him out on that, the killer summons the infamous rape rake to finish the job. All throughout, the killer is essentially dominating Fishball. Also, both of our bodyguards died, and while I feel that this could be coincidence or another party could be guilty, I find it more likely that people would have leaked roles to Ver than to anybody else at this point in the game. And certainly more likely him than any other single, central person. Potential Flaws: If the "calmly" part of the pursuit is a clue, then this does not tie in with Ver. Likewise, if the uselessness of Fishball's left arm is a clue, this also does not tie in with Ver, unless in a convoluted way to the Napoleon quote. These are by no means absolute accusations, as all of you should well know. More of a foothold for future ideas and to generate discussion about the clues amongst all of this bickering. | ||
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On May 19 2009 15:07 L wrote: If i can make a suggestion: When googling names, be sure to use google.com instead of google.yourcountry. I'll bite. brb, ~minutes. | ||
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On May 19 2009 15:22 L wrote: flower pollen makes people sneeze. Yes, that was another thing. Thank you. | ||
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As for lynching Dreamflower, while both BC and I came up with (differing) sets of clues pointing to her, I feel it would be more sensible to kill off Ver (who I believe is red) based on clues/behavior rather than just Dreamflower off of clues alone. And would you mind telling me exactly why you voted for me, Caller? You don't have to, I'm really just curious. :p | ||
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On May 21 2009 07:41 nemY wrote: Here's what I think I think (which everyone will call me retarded for) -This whole late bandwagon of votes for Ver is very suspicious... I don't like it one bit. -I don't understand the initiative to lynch Plexa... Camilito's has almost been just as inactive yet no one's gone after him -Ace is at best traitor, at worst mafia -L's is at best townie, at worst traitor -No one's PMed me about being the other DT yet... which means he or she doesn't trust me  -Our lack of unity is something that needs to be addressed! - This isn't really a late bandwagon. In fact, I'm more fearful of the one I feel is approaching. Namely, the one that comes right after Ver posts a novel in a few hours, just before the vote closes. - I agree about the initiative to lynch Plexa. It's absurd. - I don't think either of them is traitor or Mafia, and saying that somebody is suspicious of something without saying why doesn't really give anybody a reason to feel the same. - I'm glad the other DT hasn't PMed you yet. I voted for you to be in office and I don't fully trust you, either. There are only two reasons why they possibly should: they checked for clues and got the same red herring picture or they rolechecked you, which I'd strongly advise against. - Lack of unity is something we're going to have to deal with in this game, especially in the first few days. Too many headstrong people who believe different things and are unwilling to relent. Nothing wrong with that, as it just means that, no matter the alliance that is in power, it will not have many townies that are sheepishly following it's every word. | ||
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On May 21 2009 08:59 Showtime! wrote: How is it absurd? Look at all the time we've wasted. Based on my analysis Plexa looks just as guilty as them. Putting forth your analysis would help in the cause of proving it isn't absurd. As is it's just "he's being quiet" which is not entirely unusual for Plexa and nor is it always indicative of Mafia. | ||
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On May 21 2009 09:34 Bockit wrote: Regarding camlito, he has a habit of not posting anything constructive or analytical pretty much till about day 3 or so. I don't know why it's just what he does. Doesn't mean I'm not suspicious, I'm just saying it matches his behaviour as far as I know it. Plexa on the other hand.. If you want to know how active Plexa can be, go check out Mafia 2. It's the exact opposite of this time around. Dunno what to call him yet, but it doesn't look good for him To be fair, he played a much more low-key game in Ace's Mafia World. He really didn't show up in force until near the very end of the game. And if I'm recalling correctly, he and, as you mentioned, Camlito both are usually pretty quiet during the first few days of the game. Not talking at all in the thread is unusual, though. On May 21 2009 09:43 Infundibulum wrote: If he was mafia and didn't want to die, wouldn't he have taken more initiative in being active? That is a good question. Perhaps by posting late, it gives him a potential excuse if the vote suddenly shifts to his favor? It's entirely likely that he is just busy in real life, however. I know at least two players who have had to skip out on activity in the game because of real duties, even though it did nothing good for their image in the game. | ||
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On May 21 2009 10:13 L wrote: So yeah, I'm going to have to ask the town again: What if Ace and Ver are both mafia? Everyone seems to have ignored that. Then that will become apparent with time and we can still win, even though Ace would be able to Pardon a single fellow Mafia member. As is, there isn't sufficient proof for me (or for the majority of people, it seems) to go along with this "safest route" plan. | ||
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On May 21 2009 10:18 L wrote: How? Ace would be the least scrutinizable individual in the game: he's got a group of followers that have consistently defended him since day 1, cannot be rolechecked, and cannot even be looked at during a double lynch. You don't need a role check to identify him with time (you can't fake away clues even if you can fake behavior) and I'm quite sure that if those defending him were not Mafia, they would stop doing so in the face of clear evidence. If not, then you were right. On May 21 2009 10:18 L wrote: This is the equivalent of the argument we made for Qatol earlier: "Well, its cool, we'll just kill him a turn later if we find out something's fishy" in the face of a mountain of evidence against him. You're either making the assumption that there is a mountain of evidence against Ace right now that nobody is seeing except you or that there will be a mountain of evidence later with which town will do nothing with. I'm guessing the former. I don't think there's really anything constructive to say if either option is correct, though. | ||
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On May 21 2009 10:30 L wrote: No, it just removes our ability to hit Ace during the double lynches, which makes him invulnerable until Day 5 if we do 2 back to back. Do you understand why I'm not super peachy keen on waiting for 'clues' to build up if he's already got a bunch of suspicion on him? He's a fantastic tool to push town down the wrong paths. Its not 'oh we'll kill Ace if he's suspicious', because we simply can't kill him during a double. Uh. Pardoner - You are the secondary elected role of the game; the runner up in the election. You may twice pardon a person who is to be lynched. You may use this ability on the mayor's first lynch. If you use this ability during a double lynch, each pardon use spares one player (so you must use both pardons to completely stop a double lynch). You may not pardon yourself. You show up as Pardoner for all Rolechecks. I thought that would be common sense. At least check before you build up a worry based on it, y'know? | ||
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On May 21 2009 10:34 L wrote: I didn't say we needed a role check. I said he's the least scrutinizable player in the game. Is that correct or not? No rolecheck. Large bandwagon behind him. Cannot vote for him until day 5 or vig hit if we do back to back double lynches. Consistently contradictory posts. Has supported mafia players in the past. The target of a massive voteswing. I mean, 2+2. There's evidence. First, the so-called large bandwagon behind him is pretty small to the very consistent core that voted Ver in and people can defend Ace without being die-hard about it. Like me, right now. Second, the "cannot vote for him" bit is incorrect, unless you assume that we can't vote for him because he'd pardon whoever the other person was. Which is incorrect. I haven't seen that many contradictory posts and I'm not sure what you mean by his having supported mafia players in the past, unless you somehow have them figured out already. Finally, the massive voteswing you're talking about happened because of the Nemy situation. Nemy was close to being pushed into a position and many players did not like that, so there was a movement to vote in either Mynock or Ace in behind Ver. Ace ended up being the one that got the votes. | ||
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On May 21 2009 10:44 L wrote: MTF, we already 100% agreed that if Ace is mafia and he's going down, its always in his best interest to pardon the other player, mafia or not. If both Ver and Ace are mafia, your analysis of the 'large bandwagon' is consistent with what most mafia players would do in the current situation. Drop Ver, switch to Ace. And regardless of the nemY situation, if Ace flips red, the voteswing is a voteswing. THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHICH SIDE HE'S ON. I agree with everything in the first two sentences. The problem is they are complete "what if" situations to you. For the third, however...Help me understand this. Assume that you are right, and Ace is Mafia. Why would Mafia not have voted him in sooner or secured him a strong spot in the election earlier on, so as to avoid the very suspicion you are putting on him? Was Nemy just a convenient cover for a sudden five-six votes to switch over to him? And assuming further that both are mafia: Was the plan just to get Ver in first and then the Nemy situation happened, so they figured, hell, why not try to get both of them in? Or was Nemy an intentional part of it? See the problem I have with your scenario? | ||
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Ver's Mayoral Voter List: BloodyC0bbler Caller Scaramanga Mynock 0cz3c dreamflower RebirthOfLeGenD Vivi57 iNfuNdiBuLuM Incognito <-- from Showtime Malongo <-- from Ace LucasWoJ Ace Current Lynching List: L nemY dreamflower Amber[Light] Bockit <-- from Ver Plexa BloodyC0bbler <-- from Plexa Scaramanga <-- from Ver Italics are overlapped. Dreamflower has only ever posted in the thread to defend herself and Scaramanga has been even more inactive, yet they both voted in Ver and are both gunning for Ace. If Ver is Mafia and some of those who voted for him also are, and now they want to switch over to Ace, they're doing a pretty poor job of it right now. | ||
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On May 21 2009 11:15 Ver wrote: Now for the overall question for the town a) Should I modkill myself after the lynch (already confirmed that qatol will do this)? b) Or should the vigilante hit me? I suggest everyone vote on what you want me to do after Ace dies. I am determined to prove my innocence in the most direct manner but I don't want this lynch to be wasted on me. If you've determined that you're going to die anyway, why does it matter if you get lynched today or not? | ||
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On May 21 2009 11:22 Plexa wrote: It's a wasted lynch - which we could put to better use (ie killing ace) He's assuming that we're going to kill Ace tonight and then kill him immediately after, so that reasoning doesn't make any sense at all. | ||
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On May 21 2009 11:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: MTF, say we lynch ver today. DO NOT ASSUME THE VIG WILL HIT ACE So, we have a double lynch tommorrow. Ace will most likely be on said lynch list, we pair him up with X. Ace to be a spiteful dick will pardon X and just die himself, wasting our lynch. Get that ability out of the way first. Right. But I don't agree with lynching both leaders for information, nor do I think Ace is Mafia. And as predicted, Ver is coming in with a last minute explanation post. I just didn't think he'd roleclaim or that you and Plexa would show up synchronized with him. | ||
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Wonder why Caller voted for me in the first place, after all. | ||
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On May 21 2009 12:15 Caller wrote: eh you were fishy along with some other people. I figured that this incredibly poor excuse for a lynching was getting pretty stupid and just randomly picked somebody I thought was fishy ^^ Why switch at all, then? What changed between then and now, ignoring the obvious changes of the time before the vote ends and the arrival of several previously quiet Ver supporters? | ||
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On May 21 2009 12:18 Caller wrote: consider: out of nowhere he comes out with a clue analysis that I quite frankly think is a little bit too directed. Rather than let the clues find somebody, he's finding somebody with the clues-this is always a good way to hide clues as mafia-by impaling townies as red herrings. Especially when these people are considered suspicious already by the general town. The only person I went into the analysis thinking were suspicious out of those I listed as being possible matches was Ver, and I like to believe I can separate my bias from my analysis. Dreamflower and Infundibulum just came up. | ||
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On May 21 2009 12:21 Caller wrote: I'd rather not disclose the reason at this time. That's a laughable argument to use. Really. It's even moreso in that the only information that you could be wanting to innocently hide, namely that you were a DT and rolechecked either Ace or Ver, is impossible at this point in the game. | ||
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On May 21 2009 12:25 Caller wrote: That's the issue though: why is dreamflower being so accepting of your clue analysis? Doesn't it just seem weird that DF is kind of willing to take the lynch up the butt? And more importantly, if this analysis is so strong, then why isn't Infundibulum on the lynch bench? I'm half sleep-deprived atm though, so I am probably rambling. She isn't accepting of it. She just took it gracefully while saying it's totally possible that I'm wrong. Which is completely possible, as I said in my analysis post. I'm not directing who others view as strong matches or not. However, I believe the reasoning for some isn't just based on the analysis, but also on the general inactivity that she's shown and the ties to Ver. | ||
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On May 21 2009 12:26 Caller wrote: Check PM, I think I can trust you with that much. Wasn't a good excuse at all. | ||
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Everybody who is switching last minute, especially those who are going from Ver to Ace, should know that they are very suspect. | ||
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That proves nothing other than that you asked him if he would modkill if asked to by Ver. Not that Ver will be modkilled. Ask yourself this, also: why would Ver roleclaim Veteran if he's planning on dying anyway? Edited by Qatol's request. | ||
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On May 21 2009 13:07 Bockit wrote: L if you wanted proof that Ace is innocent, I think this rush of votes from highly suspected mafia players is proof enough. Stop letting the fact that he disagrees with you bias your judgement on his innocence. I don't think L really cares if Ace is innocent or not. He only cares that he's in the Pardoner position and that people voted for him. | ||
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On May 21 2009 13:19 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I think requesting modkill points to being innocent. Reasoning: it lets us know his alignment without wasting a town kill. Also if he's going to be inactive again, it would be better to get rid of himself so the town isn't arguing about like we did all Day Asking if possible =/= requesting. Lots of flawed logic being used by all of you last minute voters. | ||
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On May 21 2009 13:27 L wrote: So what if Ver says he doesn't want to be modkilled to you, but claims differently in this thread? Is his first instance of wanting modkill enough to kill him? If so, is he already going to die because he asked for it? why the fuck are these new rules coming out with like 20 minutes left to voting end, you fucking retard? Ver never asked to be modkilled. He only asked Qatol if he would upon his asking to be. | ||
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That said, I'm not giving up. On May 21 2009 23:41 0cz3c wrote: By the way, at least one of the following three is mafia. Caller RebirthofLegend nemY I may be simply pulling this out of my ass. However, 0cz3c's senses are tingling. I actually agree fully with this. Here is my reasoning: Caller has been playing Mr. Middle Ground all game, never posts anything truly constructive, and seems to just be feigning a high level of activity by responding to peoples posts with "LOL" and such. Also, the way he voted towards the end of last night was very odd, in that he flip-flopped suddenly twice between the candidates. And now that we know that both were innocent, we know that Mafia probably didn't care which of them got killed or not, because either way, half of town would be up in arms about it. Though perhaps it should be noted that Ver roleclaimed as Vet long before the vote ended. That would have given Mafia some incentive to switch over some members to his side. Rebirth has been played the "I don't know what's going on, guys" card, which is usually unacceptable to me with town-side. However, with one of his recent posts that highlighted people who voted for Ver as well as voted for Ace to be lynched, his name is cleared a bit in my mind. It seemed like a sincere effort, and only Mafia would have known for sure at that point that both Ace and Ver were not Mafia. Which is another thing. Though they were right, keep the people who were saying that we shouldn't lynch either leader in mind. This is a category simply because it's a smart play to have a few members advocate against the lynching when it's already obvious it's going to happen and you know the outcome is in your favor no matter who it is that is lynched. These include: Showtime! - Voted for Plexa to get some activity out of him. Caller - Claimed he thought the lynch was stupid which is why he switched his vote to me, before going back and forth later. Voted Ace (maybe just a joke), MTF, Ace, Ver. Amber[Light] - Just stated that he didn't think either leader should be lynched, then voted Ace. | ||
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I don't think a Mafia member would put himself out in the open so blatantly like this, though, so I'm betting he's traitor. And I'd be wary of what information comes out of him tomorrow, guys. I'm sure he'll use a rolecheck, real DT or not. Not a single person should immediately buy into it. | ||
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Well, seeing as Dreamflower is supposedly our Vigilante, she has to hit somebody tonight if she's going to. Else she either seems like Mafia to us or she gets killed without using it at all. I like MBH and Camlito being up there, as well as Showtime. None of them have been particularly active, though that seems pretty usual for all three of them. That said, all Showtime has posted since the Mayoral election closed were excuses for not being here and "I gotta go soon" posts. It's fully possible he's working behind-the-scenes again with town, but I'm flipping a coin between Mafia and "I don't really care that much" for this game. It should be noted that I think Showtime should be included with Cam/MBH as a blue sniper, and would in fact put him above Cam. Cam pretty much never posts in the thread, whether town or Mafia, so I can't say for him. MBH I've only played one game with, so I don't know much about him besides that he's quiet and resourceful. The other two I'm not so sure on. I don't know HeavOnEarth's playstyle at all and I get the feeling that Malongo is just generally abrasive. | ||
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Let's do this. If Mafia haven't killed him tomorrow, let's not lynch him. We know he can't logically be Mafia, but he can be the traitor, and wasting a lynch on him is not worth it. Nor is it worth it to Vigi him. Instead, let's have him use his rolecheck ability over the next three nights without explicitly acting on the info he gives us, provided that Mafia doesn't kill him off before then. If it's still not apparent that he is innocent after his rolechecks are all used up, we lynch him. Upon lynching, we gain the information of whether he was being honest or not for sure without wasting any of our coming lynches to reduce KP on what is either the traitor or true DT. | ||
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On May 22 2009 07:38 Scamp wrote: Why in the world would the mafia kill Dreamflower? I can't think of a single reason. She roleclaimed Vigilante. If she's telling the truth then they may kill her off just to be safe. | ||
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On May 22 2009 08:00 Scamp wrote: Well I guess I didn't factor in the mafia being dumb. If Dreamflower is the vigi then they're not going to be able to kill her before she uses her power tonight. Whether or not she does use her power she's damn suspicious to the town right now, and if she's not mafia then the mafia will want to keep her alive. And of course they won't hit her if she is mafia. Mafia doesn't need to be dumb to kill her off, merely cautious. It's a gamble for them. Let her live and hope town get's suspicious enough to lynch her if she doesn't blindly fire off a shot tonight or kill her now and be done with it entirely. It doesn't matter that she doesn't have a high chance of hitting red if she kills someone tonight. It only matters that she has the ability to and the Mafia knows that. | ||
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O well, let's just count it as a blessing and move on. Something I'll note about the clue style thus far - it feels a lot like Chuiu's clue writing, in that relevant information seems to be tied to one Mafia at a time instead of all over the place, which is much better for us in analyzing. I'm gonna go back through the each Day post now and start profiling the Mafia individually so that they're easier to work with, then attach new analysis to them. Despite a want to name them all, I'll just give them A-F designations based on chronological order of appearance. Parts I view as especially relevant will be in bold. Mafia A: + Show Spoiler + Morning 1: + Show Spoiler + They breathed a sigh of relief, but it was short lived. LTT turned just as something bowled into him, knocking him down into the now crimson waters. Morning 3: + Show Spoiler + Someone exited the hotel into the garden in time to see this struggle unfold. He charged towards the struggle and rammed into the plant. The jaws unclenched and Caller’s bones spilled to the ground. Letting out a cry, the would-be savior pulled on the stem until the plant was uprooted. He proceeded to trample dreamflower until only green goo remained. General Notes: + Show Spoiler + - Both appearances he's made so far have been very brief and unexpected interventions, and both of them very specifically involve ramming. - Has not spoken, and the death of Dreamflower seemed primitive in it's delivery. Mafia B: + Show Spoiler + Morning 1: + Show Spoiler + Qatol turned to see what was happening when a voice spoke from behind him. “You no longer control this town. It is ours now.” Qatol turned to face this new threat, but was unable to locate the speaker. Suddenly, Qatol saw a blur as his assailant leapt at him, planting a knife in Qatol's chest. LTT's attacker came over and helped push Qatol into the water with the others. Morning 3: + Show Spoiler + Two oddly mismatched men were sitting at a table, pounding the table with their fists. "Well, there is someone over there" noticed the smaller man. infundibulum let out a sigh of relief before realizing the smaller man's attention had never left him. "Well, if you aren't going to cook anything for us..." The smaller man snapped his fingers and infundibulum burst into flames. General Notes: + Show Spoiler + - It is well established that the attacker is a short person, by Qatol being unable to locate him, followed by the killer leaping to hit his chest, and finally, Morning 3 states it up-front. - Possibly practices pyrokinesis. - Displays a potential emphasis on hands. (post hoc reasoning, of course) Mafia C: Mafia D: + Show Spoiler + Morning 2: + Show Spoiler + Meanwhile, the second intruder, initially transfixed by the brutal killing, suddenly remembered that there was another target and began the hunt. He climbed the stairs and poked his head into each of the bedrooms but couldn't find anyone. After passing the set of curtains with a conspicuous pair of shoes sticking out for the third time, he heard mikeymoo sneeze. He turned around and shot both feet, causing mikeymoo to fall from his hiding place. The man approached the writhing mikeymoo, dropped his gun, and grabbed one of his fingers. He slowly put pressure on it until it snapped and mikeymoo let out a scream that dwarfed any sounds he had made before. The attacker continued until he ran out of fingers upon which time he pulled out a knife and stabbed mikeymoo in the throat. As his life left him, mikeymoo chuckled at the absurdity of the knife solving the problem of his hoarse, sore throat. General Notes: + Show Spoiler + - May be easily distracted/forgetful. - May be blind/vision impaired, due to being fixated by the sounds of Caller's killing and only locating Mikeymoo upon hearing a sneeze. Also, note that he kills Mikeymoo in such a manner that is focused on the audible (the snapping of fingers and prolonged screaming) aspects, initially. - May have something to do so-called ironic circumstances, though this may just be entertaining writing instead of an actual clue. Mafia E: + Show Spoiler + Morning 2: + Show Spoiler + In a different part of town, Fishball was running for his life. His left arm was hanging uselessly at his side, the result of a blow from the man calmly following him. Fishball finally reached the tool shed behind his house. He started fumbling with the lock in an attempt to get the axe inside. He got the door open in time for a kick from his pursuer to knock him to the floor. Fishball coughed while the other man surveyed the inside of the shed. Having made his selection, the attacker grabbed one of the tools leaning against the inside of the shed and kneeled down next to Fishball. "This would have been a lot less painful for you if you had faced me like a man. You need to develop a stronger backbone; I am going to help you with that," quipped the hit man. He then shoved the rake in his hand into Fishball from behind, handle first, as far as he could. He left Fishball flailing on the ground, coming to terms with his newfound confidence but lacking the strength to do anything with it except die. General Notes: + Show Spoiler + - Is confident/has a calm demeanor. - I honestly don't know where to go from there, so possible . Mafia F: + Show Spoiler + Morning 3: + Show Spoiler + L recoiled from the piercing gaze and ran screaming back into the kitchen. infundibulum watched in confusion as L ran through the kitchen, yelling and flailing his arms in terror. L opened up the walk-in freezer and quickly shut the door behind him. infundibulum tried to figure out what was going on while continuing to man his wok. The two strange customers entered the kitchen, startling infundibulum and finally separating him from his spot in front of the stove. infundibulum was slowly backing away, trembling, when the larger one spoke again. "Where did he go?" Seeing no recourse, infundibulum pointed a single finger towards the freezer. The larger man nodded and moved in that direction. infundibulum let out a sigh of relief before realizing the smaller man's attention had never left him. L hunched in the corner of the freezer, trying to make himself as small as possible. The banging on the freezer door was only interrupted by infundibulum's screams. The screams went from muffled to painfully loud as the larger man finally managed to solve the problem posed by the door. He quickly spotted L and started punching him repeatedly. Surprisingly, the blows didn't seem to hurt L as much as he had expected. With the hope of escape now flashing before him, L looked for something to ward off the attacker. He immediately noticed that infundibulum had clearly not defrosted the freezer in months. He was thankful. He broke off one of the icicles and tried to stab his attacker's face with it, but he couldn’t figure out exactly where to stab. L was trying to sort out his confusion when a blow from a blunt object crushed his head. L toppled to the floor. The larger man left the door ajar as he left, ensuring that the freezer would get its long overdue defrosting. General Notes: + Show Spoiler + - This Mafia member is an unusual creature, as indicated by several things. Both L and Infundibulum respond to it's presence in terror. It is especially made evident that it is this Mafia member, and not the other, that is the source of this emotion as Infundibulum is relieved after directing Mafia F away. Additionally, L does not know where to stab the creature/apparition if he were to aim at the face and Mafia F has trouble opening the freezer door. - Note that it says that L died because of being hit with a blunt object rather than by the killer's own attacks, which didn't hurt much at all. Don't know what to make of that yet. I will be back on sometime later today, possibly in just a few hours to try and tie people to the clues. Something I would ask of anybody willing to try - if you can explain why Caller's clues related to him (Morning 2, first Mafia that attacked and bottom of Morning 3) then it would be a great help for future analyzing reference as it might give us a bit of a template on where Qatol & LTT are drawing clues from. If nobody tries I'll attempt it later when I start looking through the profiles again. | ||
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Now, as for the current situation between MrBabyHands and 0cz3z. I'm leaning towards voting for MrBabyHands, though I'm not certain at all for now. My other vote will go to Vivi57. My reasoning for this is as follows: MrBabyHands: + Show Spoiler + 1. We know that MrBabyHands contacted L shortly before his death and that MrBabyHands claims some responsibility for the hit on Caller. Before the Day post even comes up, though, it seems like Caller knows that he's going to die. He doesn't care that he's been outed as Mafia at all. This means either one of two things happened: He got caught in a lie by somebody and caught wind of it or he was previously informed. He'd have to know or have reasoned out that Dreamflower's vigilante hit was switched at the last minute to him. Knowing that it wouldn't matter soon, L (or whoever was in communication with Caller) could have PMed him that information just beforehand, so it's still entirely possible that he just dropped all pretense for that reason. 2. MrBabyHands first claims that he has a lot of analysis to lay down for the town as to who is and isn't Mafia. Then, nearly ten and a half hours later (note how long it took), he posts up analysis of 0cz3c that, personally, seems very weak, somewhat forced, and is in no way conclusive. He says that the reason he's only doing 0cz3c right now is that he doesn't want town to get confused and split votes, which is legitimate for the moment. However, he also stated quite openly that he believes himself to always be 100% accurate in posting Mafia and, as such, will almost surely die tonight which means that full disclosure has to come at some point. The problem with the way things have played out is this: MrBabyHands hasn't been killed by Mafia yet, meaning that they don't know his accuracy from previous games (unlikely), that they didn't feel like he was a threat regardless (also seems unlikely), or that he is on Mafia's side. Frankly, given what has occurred in past games and what has occurred thus far in this game, the blue sniping and the silence during the Ace vs Ver debacle has me leaning towards his being Mafia, based on merits alone. That isn't all, though. With all of what were town's most prominent voices silenced, MrBabyHands suddenly shows up claiming to know all the answers to town's problems, and sends out PMs to people who he believes are blue for their cooperation. I feel that this may be a Mafia ploy, hoping to guide this double lynch into the ground, so as to cement their victory. To add to all of this, he has not responded to a PM I sent to him asking about the clues he had attached to Caller. May be innocuous, but for the moment it adds to the feeling that the analysis he has is being made up as he goes along this newest day. As it stands, MrBabyHands needs to provide me with more information before I'm willing to believe him. Most of my suspicion lies in the fact that his connection of 0cz3c seems tenuous to me and that he took so long to put up something when he claims to already have a lot of strong information. Now, for the sure vote from me. Vivi57: + Show Spoiler + I believe Vivi57 is Mafia A from Morning 1 and Morning 3. To illustrate why, let me just start with a picture of Vivi from Final Fantasy IX. ![[image loading]](http://s.bebo.com/app-image/7928525581/5411656627/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/04/07/9-vivi-c.jpg) Now look at the clues: Morning 1: Qatol turned to see what was happening when a voice spoke from behind him. “You no longer control this town. It is ours now.” Qatol turned to face this new threat, but was unable to locate the speaker. Suddenly, Qatol saw a blur as his assailant leapt at him, planting a knife in Qatol's chest. LTT's attacker came over and helped push Qatol into the water with the others. Morning 3: Two oddly mismatched men were sitting at a table, pounding the table with their fists. The larger man shouted again. "No one to seat us. No one to take our orders. How did they manage to get even half of a star? I am definitely not leaving a tip!" "Well, there is someone over there" noticed the smaller man. L recoiled from the piercing gaze... infundibulum let out a sigh of relief before realizing the smaller man's attention had never left him. "Well, if you aren't going to cook anything for us..." The smaller man snapped his fingers and infundibulum burst into flames. At first I assumed that the piercing gaze belonged to Mafia F, as he is still certainly the cause of L and Infundibulum's panics. However, upon rereading the morning post, I realized that it only made sense for the gaze to be coming from Mafia A, as he was the one who noted L's presence. Thus, Mafia F has an unusually strong gaze. Notice anything about Vivi's eyes? They are rather direct and I'm sure a stare from them would be quite disconcerting. What about his height? He's certainly a rather short man, which would explain Qatol not seeing him when he turned to face the voice, as well as why Mafia A needed help with pushing Qatol's body into the water. And just to fit it all together, the way Infundibulum dies ties everything up nicely. Vivi is a Black Mage in Final Fantasy IX, and thus uses magic to fight. Infundibulum bursts into flame upon Mafia A's finger snap, and I see nothing that fits this better than the explanation of magic. In summation: I do not urge anybody to vote one way or the other on the MBH vs 0cz3c issue currently, at least not until we hear more (that isn't just gloating and taunting) from MBH. I do urge everybody to vote for Vivi57. | ||
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On May 23 2009 10:07 0cz3c wrote: Behaviorally, he is not merely sketchy. He is the living, breathing representation of an obvious mafia. He's much more than sketchy. If you're not mafia, and, although my suspicions are that you are, please re-read his post again. It within itself is incredibly incriminating. And I suspect that Ace would have pounced upon it if he were still alive. I would consider you to be as experienced as Ace as a player; therefore, I can't understand your apparent, needless, and forgive me, stupid hesitation. I'll have a reply to your clue analysis before 10:30 P.M Eastern Time. I'm not sure who that was directed at, but if it was at me, then you're going to need to make a much better argument for his sure incrimination beyond "anybody that has a brain can see he's Mafia". It's that superior, non-conversational attitude that sees many peoples thoughts get ignored in this game. | ||
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On May 23 2009 10:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As a note to MTF, my only issue with your vivi link is that it seems too obvious, unless that was qatols intention Vivi has nothing in his profile to work with beyond his name, which itself links to a very few things. "It fits too well and surely can't be intentional" is an argument to be made when there is a fair amount of information to work with, but that doesn't seem applicable to me in this particular case. | ||
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As for using BC's analysis to lynch, I only see one potentially strong link among the clues: Kill 3 “In a different part of town, Fishball was running for his life. His left arm was hanging uselessly at his side, the result of a blow from the man calmly following him. Fishball finally reached the tool shed behind his house. He started fumbling with the lock in an attempt to get the axe inside. He got the door open in time for a kick from his pursuer to knock him to the floor. Fishball coughed while the other man surveyed the inside of the shed. Having made his selection, the attacker grabbed one of the tools leaning against the inside of the shed and kneeled down next to Fishball. "This would have been a lot less painful for you if you had faced me like a man. You need to develop a stronger backbone; I am going to help you with that," quipped the hit man. He then shoved the rake in his hand into Fishball from behind, handle first, as far as he could. He left Fishball flailing on the ground, coming to terms with his newfound confidence but lacking the strength to do anything with it except die.” I would suggest that this links to REBIRTHOFLEGEND. He has a quotation of a ban by hot_bid “Reason: I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you want to troll, I can tell you I have no patience for that. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long moderation career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you stop the stupidity now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, in one week, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will ban you.” It makes sense and it's consistent with that single Mafia member. That said, while most of his points do make some sense, they're scattered. Reading the kills, one must note that there are consistent characters, which means that the clues should not be scattered between different Mafioso. Which makes me confused on why so many people are suddenly jumping on Tricode. Unless all of you voting for him have information (like a rolecheck) that is driving you, then the reasoning just doesn't check out. There is not much evidence, and what little exists is presented in sparse fragments. Current Vote Count: + Show Spoiler + HeavOnEarth: 3 Malongo BloodyC0bbler Amber[Light] Nemy: 1 Malongo BloodyC0bbler: 1 Incognito Tricode: 5 Plexa Scamp Scaramanga BloodyC0bbler Amber[Light] 0cz3z: 2 MrBabyHands HeavOnEarth MrBabyHands: 4 0cz3c Scamp RebirthOfLegend Fusionsdf Vivi57: 6 MTF 0cz3c Nemy RebirthOfLegend Scaramanga Fusionsdf Abstain: 3 Plexa MTF HeavOnEarth Haven't voted at all: 5 Bockit Camlito Showtime! Vivi57 Tricode Has only used one vote: 4 Incognito MrBabyHands Nemy HeavOnEarth WTF Random Votes: 2 Mynock (x2) At this rate, with this amount of spread (and up to six people to place where they're needed) Mafia controls this vote. | ||
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On May 24 2009 09:56 Mynock wrote: What I'd like to advise Town to do now: Vote for 0cz3c first. I'm absolutely not a fan of MBH's "clue analysis" part of the incrimination, but then again I'm not a fan of clue interpreting either. However, we need this cleared now. 0cz3s is suspicious as it is, and we need to figure out where MBH stands. So 0cz should be Vote1. As to vote 2, choose between Tricode and HeavOnEarth. Don't let Vivi die yet. If Tricode and HOE turn up red, we'll have a Townie saved, and if not, we'll just have a suspicion. As things stand right now tho, the whole Vivi movement looks very Mafia-bandwagonish, and must be stopped ASAP. I'm only up to this post so far, but I just feel like I need to say it: Avoiding lynching Vivi57 makes no sense other than to try to discredit me. As is he has contributed nothing to town's cause and my analysis of him is solid. I find it kind of sad that I'm so suspected right now by so many of you. Mostly those of you who I considered better at analyzing behavior. Especially seeing as I never once put up a comprehensive analysis like I just did with Vivi today as Mafia, only over clue ideas and very general suspects. Note also that I have not, to this point, advocated lynching MrBabyHands, merely expressed my doubts about him actually working on finding Mafia. He has only posted his analysis of one person thus far, has not defended it in any way but mocking, and has not given me more information about the clues he supposedly linked to Caller/other Mafia information despite saying he'd have it for me by today. If you want to lynch 0cz3c based on his analysis, then I can do nothing to stop you. It will go some way to proving or disproving MrBabyHands, at least. But, please reconsider about lynching Vivi. At worst we lose someone very inactive, at best we hit Mafia and I have a chance to be proven one way or the other to all those who suspect me. As for my PM with Bockit, he can confirm that I didn't even initiate that transfer, it started with me being skeptical about LTT & Qatol asking him to PM everybody. My guessing was honest curiosity as to if I was correct or not. | ||
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LTT turned just as something bowled into him, knocking him down into the now crimson waters. Qatol turned to see what was happening when a voice spoke from behind him. And Someone exited the hotel into the garden in time to see this struggle unfold. He charged towards the struggle and rammed into the plant. The jaws unclenched and Caller’s bones spilled to the ground. Letting out a cry, the would-be savior pulled on the stem until the plant was uprooted. He proceeded to trample dreamflower until only green goo remained. First thing you'll note is that both times, Mafia A collides with his opponent. This did not immediately make me think of Fusion, but one detail about his most recent killing did, which is the bolded portion above. Let's have a look at some of the definitions for the word "fusion": 2: a union by or as if by melting together: as a: a merging of diverse elements into a unified whole So, a merging of different substances into one. Consistent theme for Mafia F: Ramming into people. New possible clue: Liquefying victims. It wasn't much, which is why I didn't immediately post it. But it's there. | ||
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On May 24 2009 11:58 LTT wrote: We are lazy and Bockit has Blue Mass PM abilites. We had him send out PMs to anyone who hadn't voted to remind them to vote. Yeah, it made sense after he responded telling me about the ability to send out mass PMs. On May 24 2009 12:03 Showtime! wrote: We cannot afford to lose anymore Townies. MTF. if you are mafia it disapproves everything you say. You and I both know that. You're operating under the assumption that I'm wrong. I'm not. If I am Mafia and Vivi57 turns up red, then while it does not 100%, beyond-a-living-doubt prove that I myself am not Mafia, it does state volumes that Mafia would be willing to reduce their KP intentionally. From where I'm sitting, Mafia is not that desperate at all. If Vivi57 turns up green, then we lose a townie who wasn't contributing anything beyond a vote and fodder. While those are both valuable in general, to argue against lynching him, again, means that you are operating under the assumption that I am wrong. | ||
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Neither does the "If you are wrong we're fucked" part, as you fail to illustrate why. | ||
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On May 24 2009 12:40 HeavOnEarth wrote: MrBabyHands, assuming your allegations against 0cz3z are correct, you need to post the rest of your analysis if you are not mafia, because you will die tonight and be unable to post any of them. Otherwise this makes you look extremely suspicious, as you said u were doing a LOT of analysis before the scenes and gave an extremely lackluster post. While I don't trust him at the moment, to be fair, he has the entire night to post up the rest of his analysis. | ||
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I can't believe how many of you still wanted to lynch 0cz3c just because MrBabyHands posted saying that he was red. And that pretty much goes for Tricode as well. In the face of actual, solid analysis, plenty of you sided with the tenuous links made by completely circumstantial things. If you voted based on clues, BC never linked a single solid clue to him, he just mentioned his name a lot in many different places (which I specifically stated was erroneous). Anyway, Mafia played a great game and should have won. Some general notes: As soon as I saw Amber switch over to push the vote up, I thought Mafia would be successful in avoiding getting Vivi lynched. I suspected BC (but not as traitor) because of how insubstantial his clue analysis was, as well as how aggressive he and others were being against Tricode and myself. I also thought MrBabyHands would turn up red for reasons I mentioned earlier (the extreme blue sniping, mafia not killing him off already, the weakness of the analysis pointing to 0cz3c, and the fact that he never gave out additional information). Everybody else was under my radar. I had gotten the info that Showtime was checked and turned up green, but I never even considered him being the GF. About MrBabyHands - dude is scary. That blue sniping was incredibly good, and when he mentioned PMing the remaining DT & Vet, I at least know he got the Vet part right. It was part of what gave him away to me, though, as he was so accurate, and yet provided town with so little reason to lynch 0cz3c. Speaking of, I agree with several others that have said that 0cz3c deserves MVP for town side. He was consistently correct about major Mafia players and if town had any sort of unity or leadership, his voice would've been a much more appreciated asset. PM convo between us yesterday: + Show Spoiler + 0cz3c: Your vivi analysis makes sense. I'll vote for vivi this time, but, I beg you, please remember to keep BC in mind. His post may have simply come at a very inopportune moment and I analyzed it incorrectly. Therefore, I'm going to stave off my crusade against him for the time being. No use causing the confusion and assaults we don't need. I still feel he's mafia though. MTF: BC is very prominent in my mind, no worries. His posting has been a mix of confrontational, "stir-the-pot" posts and fluff analysis. As for your situation with MrBabyHands, I don't believe you are mafia. He is on extremely tenuous ground with me right now, but I'm giving him a bit more time and a chance to respond to PMs before I make a judgment on whether I believe the same of him or not. 0cz3c: I'd like MBH to reply. Unfortunately, thus far his only defense has been "I'm really good." I don't think that's sufficient. Not fair to kill him without giving him a chance to speak, although I say that forcefully, as very little could convince me that he's not red. I'll be away Memorial Day Weekend. If I return and I have been killed during the night, know that I have good reason to believe that mafia have been or are in contact with the DTs (and if not both then almost indisputably one). Here's the PM I received from someone who may be trying to bait me (waste of their time, if they're mafia or not), or may be genuinely telling me the truth. The "yo man" is from Caller, apparently, or so says the person who PM'd me this. "I agree with you like no tomorrow right now. yo man, Before Ver died, he let me know that you were an unsubstantiated DT. If this is true, I need you to do a RC on Bockit-Ver highly suspected him. If you aren't a DT, wrong number. Sincerely, ~a noob BloodyC0bbler knows about this. I told him the momment Caller contacted me. BC also seemed to know that L was mafia, he told me he doesn't think the Medic will protect him but never gave names. He knew about Ver, and Df's roles. he even tried to figure out my role, which i won't tell. I am putting BC to the test i call "The trust Test" he has been slowly chipping away at it." Oh, and MBH didn't vote for the double lynch. Don't see why not at this point. All told, I'm just glad I voted for two Mafioso at the end of this day and that I wasn't playing quite as bad as I thought I was. :p In general, town needs to start paying a lot more attention, though. As soon as we lost any semblance of leadership the Mafia gained the advantage that town is supposed to have: numbers. Town only "wins" this game because a few Mafia players were inactive at a crucial moment. Think a bit more before you act and do some actual reading next time, folks. | ||
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MTF
United States1739 Posts
On May 24 2009 16:09 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Oh and thanks a lot LTT and Qatol. Those were amazing day posts and you guys did an incredible job and keeping the game fun and active while maintaining a solid game flow. I hated when other games would have like a 6 day gap between day and night posts. Made me wnat to kick the shit out of a baby. Before I go through and respond to other posts, I should post my agreement of this. Artfully written, fellows, and very well organized. I was consistently entertained and the game (while a mess as far as players go) ran smoother than I've ever seen a Mafia game go. Much <3 (for the clue style as well - hate it when it's written so that they're all over the place >.>) | ||
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MTF
United States1739 Posts
On May 24 2009 14:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Making fake clue analysis is hard Believe me, I can empathize with this. It seems like it should be easy enough, what with all the red herrings and honest mistakes others make, but for some reason it was even more time consuming to make fake analysis than it was to do it for real. On May 24 2009 14:25 Ace wrote: "ace says" Check out the Mayoral candidates. We dropped the ball, unfortunately. This is amazing and should not be buried so far away! :D On May 24 2009 14:43 Bockit wrote: What do people think about dt roleclaiming to get elected? It's gutsy and heavy-handed. Nemy thought he had a good reason for it, though, so it happened how it happened. That said, I would have a general rule for players in the future that all DT's roleclaiming on the first day should just be ignored. It's chaos and will always turn out to be either an absurdly overpowered power move or just a really, really dumb move. On May 24 2009 15:18 Ace wrote: Town MVP....hard to call. I'd say MTF because he had the right line of thinking but seemed too timid to force it out there. Ask anyone that was in my Mafia team when I was Godfather - I allow a lot of leeway in where people stand on things, even when I'm in a supposed position of leadership. I suck at persuading people beyond listing what I view as facts/logical standpoints, which is why I wanted you/Caller/Showtime! as Mayor in the first place. I know all three of you have the ability to demand things of town in as much of an aggressive fashion as is necessary. | ||
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MTF
United States1739 Posts
On May 25 2009 03:11 Showtime! wrote: No, it wasn't 'bud.' We had good clue analysis and behaviour analysis. I'm just going to stop it right here because I know how piss poor you are at defending yourself. EDIT: It was a team effort. Who do you think helped put that shit together in the first place? There's a reason why I make most of my 'plays' behind the scenes. Though I think you guys had an argument for Tricode based on behavioral analysis, you really didn't have good clue analysis tying him to anything. As I said in my response to BC when all of this was going down, all the clues that were being attached to Tricode were scattered amongst different Mafia, when the clue format was clearly separated by individuals. For the clues to be solid, they'd need to all be tied to a single person. When you find one person everywhere you look, it is evident that you aren't looking for suspects, you're just looking to pin that one person. But, because of PM conversations and what I'm guessing was largely an effort to tie Tricode to as many clues as possible because he looked possibly dirty in behavior, a lot of people who probably should've known better spread the vote thin for town side. | ||
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MTF
United States1739 Posts
On May 25 2009 09:14 Incognito wrote: Also what did you guys think about the mandatory voting? Seems to me it didn't help activity all that much, it just made people more suspicious even if they were town. *cough* camlito *cough* plexa... It was a good feature. It makes sure that nobody can hide among inactives and, well, eliminates those who are actually inactive. Whether that makes quiet townies suspicious or not is something that can be dealt with by individual case. Allowing people to be inactive is not acceptable, though. It supports a simple concept. You shouldn't be signing up if you aren't going to be playing the game. | ||
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