|
On November 04 2008 10:07 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 08:11 Caller wrote:Here's an updated list because I'm nice  notes at bottom decafchicken - 7~OpZ~ Amber[LighT] Alventenie Scorch xDark.Carnivalx goldenkrnboi KH1031 Folca - 16Acedecafchicken Bockit bumatlarge MidnightGladiusRtS)Night[Mare MTF BloodyC0bbler Camlito Jimtudor clazziquai
[GiTM]-Ace
aZnvaLiaNce
Mandalor nemY fusionsdf Ace - 12HeRoS)Pink mikeymoo Empyrean araav Artanis G.s)NarutO ShadowDrgn Lenwe ZBiR fanatacist Caller Folca Abstain -7XCetron KF91 wurm Falcynn SoleSteeleriNfuNdiBuLuM Super Drunk (probably made out with a transvestite too) FakeSteve[TPR] MidnightGladius Plexa JeeJeeChezinu The bolded area is the Folca train, namely, four consecutive folca vote posts without any justification at all. Perhaps more interesting is that two of them are on my clues list. Italicized people are just general suspects of mine. I explained in an earlier post i thought. voting decaf= stupid might as well pick a number on the list and vote them if your gonna vote decaf. So that leaves ace of folca and well I believe ace more so im voting folca. If folca is DT we kill ace no biggie. If folca is mafia we get rid of 1 plus keep a strong player. If we do ace and ace is mafia folca is dead anyway. So either way folca is gonna die right. But there is still a chance at an innocent making it out of this without dying.
people have ignored information that pretty well saves decaf, and have voted anyway, but the majority has been smart and kept to voting for folca and ace which are the two predominant suspects for day 1. The people who have voted for decaf will most likely keep the vote that way as they don't read clue analysis by the looks of it.
|
On November 04 2008 10:48 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:
what if we lynch folca and hes regular towny? Then what will happen?
we will be slightly annoyed and laugh it off, or think that a DT was speaking through him
|
On November 04 2008 11:50 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 11:46 Empyrean wrote:
The thing is, by roleclaiming DT, obviously some other DT would be suspicious and rolecheck him.
The fact that no other person claiming to be DT has spoken up saying that they investigated him and that Folca is mafia pretty much ensures that Folca isn't mafia. I'm pretty sure that once Folca roleclaimed DT, another one checked him out, found out he was DT, and decided to stay silent. They'd only pull the alarm if Folca were actually mafia.
Honestly. If any of you guys were DT and someone claimed they were DT and accused Ace, wouldn't your natural reaction be to investigate Folca and see if he were lying? Exactly. I'm positive that some other DT has investigated Folca, found him to be DT, and is thus remaining silent. or the other DTs already used their ability, don't want to die, etc.
or are saving their ability to vote check
|
only if people switch their votes will ace go down
|
and one DT bites the dust, guess its aces turn
|
So, ace is next, and gladius is the next suspect after that?
|
He died pointing a finger at you ace, and as such i think that holds weight, specially since he was truthful. Sorry bud, but your up to the gallows next
|
On November 04 2008 14:37 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 14:36 clazziquai wrote:
So we should use our Mad Hatters tonight, correct? jawohl im way too overenthusiastic i'm definitely going to get owned tonight lawl
Yay for death?
|
On November 04 2008 14:40 Caller wrote:
I know there is absolutely no way of proving my innocence, and that this indeed could be seen as evidence.
But if you have information you'd like to share, special roles and mafia, please send it to me, even if its by a proxy or something. I have nothing else to do and I have a long time. Also my brain is on hyperdrive right now.
Share the wealth, I have all day tommorrow to come up with strategies as its my day off, and any decent information would help with that
|
On November 04 2008 14:49 clazziquai wrote:
Ace prove me that you are innocent.
Folca has done enough and he IS a detective.
Was a detective, and pretty well no way he can prove he's innocent, so up to the gallows he goes.
As a general note to the other two detectives, and for the jacks, please list check the ace and folca lists
I believe there are two of each role atm, so i would ask D1 and D2(detective numbers as where they appear in the list first one being D1 and the other D2) check the folca list and the jacks J1 and J2 check out the ace list.
With that information, gathered, either choose myself or caller if you trust either of us and give us that info, preferably both Jacks and both detectives to the same person, it helps prove who you are as you would have a list identical to eachother to prove your validiaty.
|
Hmm, good point, guess we need 4 more potentials so one still lives tommorrow :p
|
On November 04 2008 14:58 Ace wrote:
<--volunteers to be a potential
Sadly your on death row
|
On November 04 2008 15:00 Ace wrote:
why? I didn't do anything except defend myself :/
The dead detective was honest about his role, and said he checked you and you came back mafia, which means well, a noose is being tied and waiting for tommorrow. Besides even you said earlier "one of us is guarenteed mob, and if he turns up blue, your mafia"
No back tracking now, your turn is coming.
|
On November 04 2008 15:04 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 14:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 04 2008 14:49 clazziquai wrote:
Ace prove me that you are innocent.
Folca has done enough and he IS a detective. Was a detective, and pretty well no way he can prove he's innocent, so up to the gallows he goes. As a general note to the other two detectives, and for the jacks, please list check the ace and folca lists I believe there are two of each role atm, so i would ask D1 and D2(detective numbers as where they appear in the list first one being D1 and the other D2) check the folca list and the jacks J1 and J2 check out the ace list. With that information, gathered, either choose myself or caller if you trust either of us and give us that info, preferably both Jacks and both detectives to the same person, it helps prove who you are as you would have a list identical to eachother to prove your validiaty. And if either of you are mafia? We don't want any info getting to the mafia, especially about who is a detective.
All comes down to trust, i am far to well aware, It is basically up to people to decide if they want to do such a thing. I am saying im trustworthy and not a mafia, and volunteering for a position that will most likely get me killed tonight to prevent it from happening. Folca died to pin ace, and now we need a way to use our remaining DT's well, or if nothing else, in contact with one another.
|
On November 04 2008 15:08 Empyrean wrote:
Don't try and draw the detectives into the open. If you're mafia, at least try to hide it somewhat.
Honestly, to best utilize them, we should just suggest things for them to do, hope they read the thread and follow suggestions, then if anything major comes up, have them sacrifice themselves and use paramedics on them later if necessary (paramedic problem again...read my previous post).
Vote checking the folca and ace lists are what they need to do, and if they stay quiet, they need to continue doing this constantly, building up a list and narrowing it down. Same with the jacks to an extent.
Once theyr eally narrow it down they can rolecheck a player and see if its mafia or not, then link that person to who they were bandwagoning with the most, or who "swayed their vote" or who they defend and so on.
They can do alot yes in secret, but if they can get together, they dont waste say a rolecheck on the same person, and are able to work more effectively. Honestly i would prefer only the DT's and Jacks knowing who each other are, and have the 4 of them work as an investigation unit, but it is wishful thinking.
The issue comes into play, How do they present their findings later on without getting killed, as if we dont lynch the suicide bomber quickly, the DT's will die at night if they release their findings, and any medics who protect them will die to the bomber as well.
|
that could work as well, yes.
Only issue is proving validity of the lists, hense why id want both dts sending it to one central person, but i do see the issue with it a) that person dies right off and nothing is gained or b)is a mafia and has them killed.
I am aware of the risks, at the same time, I don't want wasted role checks on one person and say they turn up blue or green, they get killed at night. I will try to flesh out a much more concrete way if i can of how to get people together at a low risk situation, if possible, I might not be able to do so, but i shall deff try.
|
Day one Clue analysis
a) Last Meal theme
b)Pleading for life theme
c)"Embrace the release that death brings you"
d)Vengence theme
e)“We can trust no mayor, no governor, no authority this day or the next. We must unite to take care of the problem ourselves. Mafia if you hear me then tremble because we are united in our cause and will strike with cruel precision to drive you from our town."
Suspects for a)
Decafchicken fits it by mentioning subway in his profile, as well as his obvious name attachment
Yogurt fits the mold by also being a food item, with a picture of it in his profile
Falcynn has applesauce repeated as part of his profile
Hero's pink has two people sharing a milkshake
Bockit mentions the word vegetable in his profile
KH1031 – thanksgiving mentioned in profile which is a complete meal
Fantacist dog eating quote in his profile
suspects for b)
Lenwe – really really fucking stretched here, but his comic in his profile, is like a plead for his gf or other half in life to not leave, hence in a way pleading for his life to stay the same.
Suspects for c)
Plexa – quote says ones spirit will set you free, ie embrace your death
Aznvaliance for his quote in profile saying the loser or dead man is set free
Suspects for d)
Bockit – multiplish war quotes, one directly related to ww2’s nuke attack on japan, which was done as a retaliation for pearl harbor or otherwards done for revenge
Suspects for e)
Fakesteve – mod/list of mods loving his fanclub, quote advocates we don’t trust people of power
Midnight Gladius – quote lists a general in his profile, generals are usually well trusted. This general is also advocating change which would relate to not wanting a mayor
Ace – Ace was trusted as a leader last game as he was the mayor, slim link but still there
Also as a seperate clue for ace, he was fingered by our now dead detective, who said he rolechecked him.
Also feel free to agree/destroy my quickly done up compilation above, i will be working on it more, but that is my initial list of people connected via day ones shady clues
|
On November 04 2008 16:21 ShadowDrgn wrote:
You guys that voted for Folca suck.
It was something thought of earlier before Folca stood up, and he planned to die to the town to prove his innocense to take out ace.
In a case of DT for a mafia is normally a bad trade but ace holds allllot of credibility normally, and well this is getting rid of a voice that could sway the town easily.
The plan was as soon as this happened to purely vote for folca and ace, and have the remaining dt's votecheck the lists.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2008 00:43 Empyrean wrote:After the Folca deal, We can all agree that Ace is mafia. 1. MidnightGladius keeps on saying he might hvae some clue interpretation coming up later. He never does it. He starts saying this as early as page 22ish I believe. 2. Ace is the first to vote to lynch Folca. Folca himself is the second. 3. MidnightGladius is the third. His reason: Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 12:39 MidnightGladius wrote:
Intriguing.
## I vote to lynch Folca. 4. RTS)Nightmare is the fourth to vote Folca. 5. Folca accuses MidnightGladius of being mafia based on his signature (clue) and behavior. 6. SoleSteeler abstains. 7. Heros)Pink is the first to vote to lynch Ace on Folca's word alone. 8. Jimtudor thinks Folca looks legit. 9. Alventenie: Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 13:52 Alventenie wrote:
I myself think we should hold off lynching folca until tomorrow. Lynching him today means hes dead for sure, waiting until tomorrow means the mafia either:
A) kill him, to make sure he doesn't use any more abilities, or
B) let him live, trying to cast suspicion on him making him seem fake.
Instead we should try to find another mafia through the clues tonight. Once we lynch them (I am voting for decaf), tomorrow we lynch folca (if he is still alive, i believe he will be if we dont lynch him), that way he can use another ability tomorrow. If he turns blue, we vigi Ace so no one can save him, and with luck, drop the mafia kill count to 4 by tomorrow night.
You guys are really charging into this without thinking of your options. Folca pretty much is sacrificing himself, but at least use him for as much as possible. By the town killing him tonight, we give the mafia an extra kill tonight that they wont waste, and it means we have more time to look for other mafia. Lynching him now would be foolish, wasting his potential where we could chance getting a mafia on day 1, not a blue.
I vote for decafchicken
ps. I believe midnightgladius and jimtudor are people we need to watch for. Midnight for his sig + extremely quick to lynch folca without considering the options. I also think Jimtudor should be watched due to that fact that he is almost certain folca is legit, even though he wouldn't know that by just reading folca (i believe folca, but i am not certain he is legit, so im using him to get the biggest gain for the town). Townies please reconsider folca's proposition of lynching him tonight. Let him live through the night with no paramedics watching him to see if the mafia truly wish to kill him. 10. Empyrean: Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 13:57 Empyrean wrote:
If we don't lynch Folca, will he have a chance to use his powers again and report them before he dies? If so, then I wouldn't advise lynching Folca. He'll die anyway, so in death he'll be vindicated. If no mafia target him to make him look suspicious, we'll all lynch him anyway. That's why I don't want to vote Folca.
As for who to lynch, I still don't know if we can yet trust Folca (or he could be a mafia roleclaiming DT but Ace is also mafia...this way, Folca gains our trust while the mafia don't lose any killing power, and Folca can direct us to kill someone important later) since he's not dead, so because of this, I wouldn't vote for Ace either.
I'll still stay with what few clues we have and vote to lynch decafchicken.
I vote to lynch decafchicken.
Also, has the town abandoned the Mandalor style plan I suggested earlier? If not, then we should probably coordinate first and second suspects.
Also, when will Chuiu compile the vote list? 11. Alventenie tries to explain to MidnightGladius. Ace repeats MidnightGladius' argument, and a few posts later, Alventenie explains the same thing to Ace.: Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 14:36 Alventenie wrote:On November 03 2008 14:21 MidnightGladius wrote:
Folca, why do you keep bringing up my contributions to the site? Chu has never set the precedent of doing that in the previous two games, and there's no reason why he should start now. It would make clue interpretation much too erratic and difficult both for him and us. He would have to read through 10 (+ vigil/jack) posting histories on a regular basis and assume that the town does so as well. Also, clues derived from posts would be very easy to see as red herrings. If a mafia mentioned physics, would it be referencing your blog, Empyrean's schedule that he posted in this thread, Chezinu's mad scientist profile, fanaticist's pool table photo, etc.
Furthermore, there is no reason not to vote for you, given the claims you've made. Mafia's not going to kill you, since that would tip their hand either way and give the town tempo advantage. As is, the most efficient way to go about this would be to lynch you tonight. If you're red, you're red. If you're green, then screw you. And if you're confirmed DT, then town gets a confirmed kill through lynch, with maybe a second from clue analysis of the first night. Letting you get another cycle's worth of information would be nice, but the fast route is the only likely way the town has to reduce kill power, which is our top priority at the moment. Sigh, you are thinking so incorrectly, it furthers my belief that you are a mafia. You are pretty much charging in at first chance to lynch mafia, thinking only short term to get goals done. What you aren't thinking is long term. By lynching folca tonight, we lose his abilities for tomorrow, or we lose the play of forcing mafia to kill him. We also would be ignoring the entire day of clues, even if vague, at linking them to someone. Anyone voting folca obviously is just bandwagoning without thinking for themselves, meaning the mafia already have this game in control and will continue such a trend until the town is wiped out. Notice how no one until myself challenged lynching folca tonight instead of tomorrow. No one thought of what him being alive through the night does. The fast route to ONE mafia kill is to lynch him tonight. The fast route to multiple mafia lynchings is to lynch him tomorrow. Why? Because we pretty much are assured he will die, tonight (by mafia, wasting a kill they could of used on someone else if we lynch folca today), or tomorrow, when we lynch him. The fact that we should be looking for a mafia tonight is better than killing someone who has role called. Why? because if we kill said role call person, he flips blue, mafia kill 5, we then are lynching our first mafia, and then our vigilantes have ZERO targets until we analyze more clues, putting more townies to risk of dieing for being loud spoken. By lynching folca tomorrow, one of our vigi's have a confirmed mafia kill (if folca is detective and not mafia), and we put pressure on the mafia as to whether to let folca live or die tonight, or tomorrow. This gives us more information in the long run for finding mafia than lynching folca tonight. 12. Ace defends decafchicken like there's no tomorrow. He also says: Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 15:06 Ace wrote:
And of course I'm sure you would say that. Me defending decaf paints both of us mafia. So lynch me first now, instead of Folca even though the burden of proof is on him and he has nothing to do with decaf. Right. Makes perfect sense don't you think? 13. BloodyCobbler defends decafchicken. Show nested quote +On November 03 2008 15:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 03 2008 15:07 goldenkrnboi wrote:
## I vote for decafchicken
based on the clues and the arguments that several people have mentioned. Based on the clues? I destroyed them with facts that relate directly to FOOD INDUSTRY, coffee is a normal thing at the end of a meal, i also listed other names that are linked to a "meal" setting to begin with, ffs, they have been defeated, now new evidence is needed to continue the bandwagon 14. decafchicken, in the middle of a "lynch Folca today or tomorrow" discussion, once again says that some people are going off a clue that is way too easy to be true. He does this so much it's almost annoying. 15. Ace points out the following: No one can prove that Folca is a legit DT and no one can get anything except coffee = decafchicken as their best clue. He points out BloodyCobbler's defense of decaf. Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 01:26 Ace wrote:
It's sickening because if decaf flips green, and then I flip green what would you have to say? Stop trying to double think the mafia motive and just go for what's best for the town.
16. Caller: Show nested quote +On November 04 2008 04:49 Caller wrote:On November 04 2008 04:30 bumatlarge wrote:
If we left him alive, and mafia didn't kill him, they still could use that to throw suspicion on him. In fact, that's what I would do if I were mafia. We have to lynch him eventually. If he's blue, well he would be a dead blue anyway. yeah, we're lynching him TOMORROW. EVERYBODY PLEASE LISTEN: Lynch Folca Tomorrow. IF he is mafia, he cannot do any more damage. IF he isn't mafia, at least he can take another hit for some other townie tonight. If they don't hit him, we get another role check or something from him, no? Please please please understand this. 17. Amber[light] suggests (laughably...what a horrible suggestion) that another DT step up and ask about Folca's role, thus leading to another DT revealing himself. 18. Alventenie repeats that lynching either Ace or Folca tonight is just a bad idea. 19. MTF (long post): + Show Spoiler +On November 04 2008 09:42 MTF wrote:Ok, since it seems theres a movement to lynch Ace tonight, which I think is faulty, I'll try to exemplify this for everyone: Reasons to Lynch Ace:Clues: + Show Spoiler +
""We can trust no mayor, no governor, no authority this day or the next."
May relate to his role in the last game as an authority figure.
Other: + Show Spoiler +
He has been accused of a rolecheck by Folca, who has made several posts trying to provide information.
Clues: + Show Spoiler +"Many in the crowd were excessively enthusiastic about the lynching and many were grave and quiet." May be a reference to his profile picture.Other: + Show Spoiler +
He has accused Ace of being rolechecked as mafia and implicated several other prominent players, myself included, with faulty and rushed reasoning.
Lynching Ace or Folca is a fifty/fifty gamble, which is better than can be said of lynching any other person in the game right now. That being said, Ace has been setting plans into motion from the beginning and engaging in active discussion with the people trying to organize town. This is a good thing, and Ace's plans have not been openly malicious and have helped move town along in discussion and avoid the mistake (ironically) of revealing DT's for the towns gain due to the suicide bomber. Now, this is not to say I believe Ace is town for sure, as what he has done is the only smart thing he could do given the previous game. Ace is not proven innocent by any means. Neither, however, is Folca. And Folca came out of nowhere with his accusation and proceeded to call out several people with absolutely no basis for most of it. Now, mafia or true detective, this was not a smart thing to do. Considering this, one must ask the origin of the actions' desperation: the only thing other than simple foolishness I can think of is that everything is less organized this early in the game. That can only benefit mafia, as they start off from the very beginning in a structured manner. Accusing key members early on would only benefit them. Now, assuming Ace's innocence, implicating and taking him out this early on would eliminate one of the strongest structures that town could organize itself around. This alone may be worth the attempt by mafia, especially if they're banking on him having an additional role, as nearly half of all of the town does. I can see it argued the other way around easily enough, though, and it is a fair view to have that doing this as a mafia member or a true detective doesn't make much sense this early on. But Folca has done it, and we can only prove the why by lynching one tonight. The evidence that either is telling the truth is about even. The matter of choosing is simply in the behavior, and the hoped-for outcome, as either way we risk losing someone of value. Personally, I think Folca is lying, and even if he weren't, town wouldn't get a proven DT the following day, because mafia would be insane to keep a revealed DT alive. So, there is only one argument for voting Ace over Folca: You believe Folca for whatever reason and want to make mafia waste a hit tonight. However, the same exact thing can be said of Ace, as if Folca is indeed red, then they wanted Ace dead early on, and will undoubtably use at least one hit on him tonight. I guess that about sums up my feelings on the matter. Ace is inherently more valuable as a structure than an unproven detective that has been revealed if he is indeed innocent. Edit: As I wrote this, Bockit essentially put it in a much more succient manner. :p 20. fusionsdf loves MTF's clue analysis <3. 21. Caller's general suspects: Ace, Decafchicken, MidnightGladius, ulszz, SoleSteeler. Also points out that GiTM-Ace, Aznvaliance and Mandalor bandwagoned on Folca in a row without any reasons why. 22. BloodyCobbler insinuates that people who voted for decafchicken aren't smart players and that they don't read clue analysis. Page 36, bottom 3/4 of the page. 23. Ace once again reiterates decafchicken's defense of himself. A page later, he bandwagons on one of BloodyCobbler's arguments against Empyrean. 24. Empyrean thinks that Ace has strong arguments and even if he -is- mafia, he'd still be an asset to the town for a few days because he'd have to act the townie part.
My only defense of myself Emp is basically this:
The clues linking to decaf were thin at best, I told people that they were bandwagoning on the wrong idea of "its unusual to have coffee" after a meal when its not, while also bringing up other possible suspects. I was ignored and people continued to bandwagon without real cause. Had anyone refuted any of my points i would have been completely alright for it, but bandwagoners who dont consider what all is said are just going to hinder the game.
As for the rest of your analysis, good job on the compilation.
|
On November 05 2008 04:47 ulszz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2008 04:45 mikeymoo wrote:On November 05 2008 04:40 ulszz wrote:
so many pages so fast...
i still don't understand why people voted to lynch folca... he was obviously townie, what mafioso would fake DT? once his accusations were proven wrong he would by lynched. if ace didn't turn up mafioso, then we would of lynched folca for his lies. so now we have a dead DT. we could of possibly saved a townie by lynching ace before folca. Killing power would still be 5. well, i mean there was more chance of ace being mafia than folca was.
As said before, on day one with no definite clues pointing to people, we then got turfed into a person claiming DT and pointing a finger at someone who was insanely well respected and who if wasnt a mafia would be a huge benefit for the town. As such, lynching the accuser would prove if he was lying or not, which is what was done, now we have the next days lynch target.
It sucks that we lost a DT for this, but it wasnt for nothing, we catch a mafia, as well as someone who could have seriously destroyed the town if he had been let to. Perhaps if we get really really really lucky is is also the suicide bomber
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
