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TL Mafia 2 [GG]

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 13 2008 05:39 GMT
#28
Wow...this game's gonna be epic!
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 13 2008 11:34 GMT
#88
Oh god...I just realized how much of a pain deciphering clues is gonna be now. With over 130 people playing it's going to be hard to make up clues that don't point to like 5 or more people without making them really obvious.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-13 21:44:54
March 13 2008 21:19 GMT
#129
On March 14 2008 06:07 Fishball wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2008 06:00 ahrara_ wrote:
On March 14 2008 05:12 BluzMan wrote:
A quick suggestion:

Since I've already played mafia on a forum that excels at this (20+ seasons), it's really better to make a separate thread for each day and each voting. Close treads after day/voting ends, it's in fact easier to find them in the closed forum than in general, besides, no mess ups.

Quoted for emphasis. This is a great idea.


That is what Tracil did also. One of the players suggested using different Blog pages for each day/night instead.

That's one of the things that I really really liked about Tracil's version. It seems like it'd be so much easier to find specific posts if the days and nights were broken up into different threads rather than having to sort through 200+ pages of posts. In a way the days and nights were broken up by having the day/night posts linked on the first page, but still...having that many pages seems like a pretty daunting task when looking for specific posts.

Mynock has a pretty good point, however if someone's unwilling to lurk through a couple of threads, it seems doubtful that he'd be that much more willing to look through one huge ass thread.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 14 2008 00:56 GMT
#148
On March 14 2008 09:55 Dapperdan wrote:
"3. New rule, you must vote. Whether its 'I abstain from voting' or not you must cast a vote"

With the creation of this new rule, I would seriously consider creating a new thread where all votes are cast. In this new thread, people would simply post like this:

Show nested quote +
Day 1 Voting

I vote chuiu


No other posting would be allowed in the topic. It would serve as an easier way to count votes, and as a reduction on all the spammy posts that include just voting which people would make -- letting people read through the topic easier, and significantly cutting down on the pages in the topic. Vote counts could be posted in either or both topics. What do you guys think? (I would certainly love this... it'd be so much easier for me to follow)

That actually seems like a really good idea. It would also benefit town because it'd make it a lot easier to check up on somebody's voting record.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-14 15:24:43
March 14 2008 15:17 GMT
#190
On March 14 2008 22:03 BWdero wrote:
Yes a new mafia game, and i'm in this time! This is gonna do wonders for my post count.
Just make sure you're active >.>







Edit: and reading all of the new posts...how the hell are you guys accusing people of being mafia now? With the people who have already declared their candidacy, yes there's a good chance all of them will be chosen as mafia, but there's just as good a chance that all will be townies...It's all luck at this point, no matter how shady someone might be acting. Obviously the mafia would like one of their own as mayor, but if you take the fact that mafia still kicked our ass last game and the fact that even Chuiu himself (I"m pretty sure it was Chuiu, could've been Dapperdan) said that in all his games he's never seen a mafia mayor. Then you can see that's it's stupid to start listing people who could be mafia, especially before the game starts, just because they're running for mayor.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-14 15:42:49
March 14 2008 15:33 GMT
#192
On March 15 2008 00:25 nemY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2008 00:17 Falcynn wrote:
On March 14 2008 22:03 BWdero wrote:
Yes a new mafia game, and i'm in this time! This is gonna do wonders for my post count.
Just make sure you're active >.>







Edit: and reading all of the new posts...how the hell are you guys accusing people of being mafia now? With the people who have already declared their candidacy, yes there's a good chance all of them will be chosen as mafia, but there's just as good a chance that all will be townies...It's all luck at this point, no matter how shady someone might be acting. Obviously the mafia would like one of their own as mayor, but if you take the fact that mafia still kicked our ass last game and the fact that even Chuiu himself (I"m pretty sure it was Chuiu, could've been Dapperdan) said that in all his games he's never seen a mafia mayor. Then you can see that's it's stupid to start listing people who could be mafia, especially before the game starts, just because they're running for mayor.


Guys... lynch this mofo. He makes too much sense!!!
You're breaking my balls man.




Edit: Also just a random thought, wouldn't it technically be advantageous for mafia to not even try to run for mayor? I mean it seems like everyone here assumes that at least one person who runs for mayor HAS to be mafia. So if the mafia don't even bother to put a candidate up, then later in the game all those towny candidates will essentially end up being scapegoats for the lynchings.

All I'm trying to say basically, is when we start lynching people...please come up with a better reasoning than "Well he ran for mayor and at least one of the candidates has to be mafia", because anyways...mayor seems to be useless to mafia. Besides the first lynching (which a towny mayor will probably get wrong anyways) the only powers the mayor has is his extra votes, which are pretty much useless if the town is even half decent (and if town sucks...then they REALLY don't need a mayor). As for the double lynching...well a mafia mayor would have to use his double lynchings in respect to the town's wishes anyways or risk being suspected as mafia. So in reality it seems that the wild goose chase that would ensue from not running for mafia would be more beneficial to them than the mayor or pardoner position would.

I say the pardoner position is useless to mafia because then if he decides to pardon a fellow mafia without giving good reason then that guy will probably just be taken out by a vigilante at night. Afterwards the pardoner would be lynched by day giving the town two guaranteed mafia kills.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 15 2008 00:00 GMT
#202
On March 15 2008 03:07 Dapperdan wrote:
Wow, all of those rants were comletely unnecessary and useless. ;b
If that was directed at me, I know I just like having excuses to write random crap.

Also I realize that mayor isn't completely useless to mafia and does give them a large advantage. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't warrant such a large advantage that it's absolutely guaranteed that one of the candidates has to be mafia.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-15 14:47:52
March 15 2008 14:44 GMT
#223
I heard we were starting Sunday.

Also as for the voting system. If we do the separate blogs for voting we can make it so that every post made in their is required to be a vote, but you can still post your reasons in your post. For example...

On March 18 2008 8:32 SomeRandomExample wrote:
If anyone cares my reason for voting this way is because blah blah blah.
I vote SomeExampleRandom


or

On March 18 2008 8:32 SomeRandomExample wrote:
for my reasoning just look at my post on this link http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=12#223
I vote SomeExampleRandom


It might be a nuisance having to look through all those links but it's still (imo) easier to keep track of votes and things like vote changes than looking through a huge thread to check peoples voting records. Especially considering that the way the votes are broken up will be like 1-3 actual votes for every 15 posts by some group of people arguing.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 16 2008 20:20 GMT
#248
This game is gonna be epic! Hope I get something good ^_^
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 03:09 GMT
#295
I nominate randombum for mayor!
[image loading]
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 03:14 GMT
#298
You have to post in Chuiu's blog

and glad to be of service randombum
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 04:04 GMT
#313
OMG!

(from Chuiu's blog)
On March 18 2008 12:58 Chuiu wrote:
Closed!

Sorry to anyone who didn't get in. You can always message me to get into the advanced wait list (before other people on the wait list) to get into the game if other players are inactive.

Hopefully I'll have day started in the next two hours.


I can't wait ^__________________________^
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 06:23 GMT
#339
Same here! Can't wait to get started ^_^
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 06:47 GMT
#350
On March 18 2008 15:44 CDRdude wrote:
Canidates, make your speeches.
hey hey! no need to rush things, your hastiness seems pretty mafia-ish to me right now...
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 06:51 GMT
#354
Yeah, looking for clues is gonna be a bitch with 130 profiles to look through.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 07:07:09
March 18 2008 07:00 GMT
#362
Chuiu and DapperDan were betrayed by their own comrades, and now their lives hanged on the balance.


"We don't like the way you're running things, and its time for change, either you submit and follow my leadership or you get to taste lead for dinner".


Sidewinder stumbled forward trying to stop the inevitable.


He jumped through the opening towards the door and was almost home free when he was cut off by Mr. Blonde, coming out of nowhere it seemed.


He met him face to face halfway pushed King Brown Snake out of the way as he proceeded to the door again.


Taipan Snake automatically knocked him to the ground and proceeded to kick him, being unarmed at the time.


"Yes, but lets not be hasty, we should take care when proceeding"


Alright, I'm too sleepy to look through all 130 profiles, but these are the lines in the post that caught my eye the most. The bolded parts are things that I'm kinda thinking could be clues, and bolded+italicized are things that I'm pretty certain relate to someone. So if anyone has any free time (randombum, that means you) these lines could lead somewhere.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 07:10 GMT
#374
On March 18 2008 16:09 SonuvBob wrote:
My platform: Being less of a douche than Steve was.
Works for me.

Too bad I already voted randombum though. (what? he sent me a PM personally and put that picture I made in his profile ^_^)
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 07:16:14
March 18 2008 07:12 GMT
#376
On March 18 2008 16:10 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:
Right, we can just ask a detective if the mayor is a mafia or not. This game just got easier
ehhh...not really. How would we know if the detective we're asking is really a detective? I mean noone's going to come clean about their roles this early in the game in fear of being killed by the mafia.


Edit: However it would be in the mayor's best interest to follow the voice of the townies for the first few days, so a mafia mayor wouldn't be completely terrible.
Edit2: Just read Ghar's post, makes sense now...actually he seems like a pretty cool guy, eh has a plan and doesn't afraid of anything. I might change my vote to him later.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 07:19:51
March 18 2008 07:19 GMT
#382
Yeah, but it's not like he just set up a mailing list. He still had to PM them all one by one, and to me that shows dedication. Seriously though, I actually might change my vote to ghar later since his strategy makes sense, and I actually trust bumatlarge's theory about 87-88%.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 17:33 GMT
#544
I'd just like to mention to everyone that since it's kind of a bitch running through 10+ pages that have sprung up after going to sleep/going out, I've decided to make a blog where I post links to any important clues/lists/posts so that
a)it's easier to keep track of everything
b)people who are too lazy to look through all the pages have a resource for all the important things they need to know, so it's not as overwhelming.

Anyways, now that I've gotten that out of the way I'm also gonna join in on voting for Ace, since while any mayor should incorporate this plan. The fact that Ace brought it up shows experience, intelligence, and township (I mean it's doubtful a mafia would bring up a plan like this).
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 18:43 GMT
#574
On March 19 2008 03:35 aZnvaLiaNce wrote:
I just woke up to find the mayor race pretty tight right now. Empy, Ace, Sonuvbob, and Ghar in the lead? Nice

But, seriously, Ace should be highly considered for the mayor position. I don't think many have complained about his logic yet and he doesn't seem to have any motives to sabotage the town. I'd like to vote for him but my vote already went to a god already

I'm proud of you, Ace. Proud of you, boy.
You're still allowed to change your vote.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 18:47:26
March 18 2008 18:45 GMT
#576
On March 19 2008 03:41 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Can someone summarize the last 29 pages for me?
Hopefully if enough people PM what they think are important posts my blog will be able to summarize all the important aspects of the game so far.

/shameless selfpromotion.


Seriously though, what I can remember off the top of my head, Ace and Ghar are in the lead for mafia. avaar (I probably misspelled it) is also kind of in the lead due to him using some linux script to simplify a list of everyone's sigs/birthdays/etc into one post. Empyrean told everyone he's a detective and people are suspicious of him. A clue in the day post in which Chuiu was surrounded relates to Ghar's sig maybe.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 18:57:39
March 18 2008 18:57 GMT
#587
On March 19 2008 03:54 zeks wrote:
Isn't it more advantageous to have both the mayor and pardoner on the same "line"?

Should we consider that when voting...like making a sure a pair of mayor-pardoner that can work together well?
To be honest the pardoner seems like a useless position for a towny until maybe really really late in the game. The only good thing that comes from granting someone Pardoner status is the bodyguard protection, so we don't really need a pardoner who works well with the mayor. We just need to put a towny that we want to keep protected.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 20:13 GMT
#609
On March 19 2008 05:09 Lenwe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 05:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd just like to say something about the bodyguard plan with one bodyguard stepping up front to accept everyone's roles; This could easily be done by the mafia too if the mayor is a mafia member. Mafia could fake being a bodyguard and thus it's not really any better then just sending the roles to the mayor.

If there are 7 bodyguards and one doesn't get the message he will know something fishy is going on.
Only the mayor knows who the body guards are, even the bodyguards themselves don't know. So if a bodyguard doesn't get a message...he'll just assume that he's not a bodyguard.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 21:00 GMT
#624
On March 19 2008 05:59 fusionsdf wrote:
This is our land. A land of peace and of plenty. A land of harmony and hope. This is our land. Liquidia. These are our people. The workers, the strivers, the builders. These are our people. The builders of our world, struggling, fighting, bleeding, dying. On the streets of our cities and on the far-flung battlefields. Fighting against the mutilation of our hopes and dreams. Who are they?
pffft. where have you been? Liquidia was over run by the mob a long time ago, this is Liquid City.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 21:26 GMT
#630
[image loading]
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 21:56:22
March 18 2008 21:55 GMT
#654
All days and nights will be roughly 24-48 hours each (at least I believe that's what he said). So expect a mayor to be elected by tonight or tomorrow night.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 22:09:43
March 18 2008 22:09 GMT
#673
edit: forget all of this.

no, it's either one of the roles in Tracil's game, or one of the roles Chuiu was planning to use, but scrapped.

This version has no SC influence so Dark Templar isn't in it. Unless he means vigilante which I believe is what the DT essentially is.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 22:24 GMT
#698
On March 19 2008 07:23 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 07:21 fusionsdf wrote:
On March 19 2008 07:16 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
fusion, fusionfusionfusionfusion.
You'll have to try harder than that, son.


You should explain


Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 06:46 fusionsdf wrote:
s h a l l o w is a m a f i a


Damn it guys, please don't pull another Dr.Dragoon on the town.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 22:27 GMT
#705
On March 19 2008 07:26 clazziquai wrote:
Alright guys, just got home, got my role, and reading the 30 pages...-0- gonna be long
Just read my blog! It's not very complete right now, but it should catch you up on the basics.


/more shameless self promotion.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 23:06:22
March 18 2008 23:04 GMT
#734
On March 19 2008 07:44 Wysp wrote:
http://teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=So no fek

Enigma ran his hand through his hair and said "So we're going to gut this town clean and take it over, eh? No more of this bullshit protection, thats grand!"

I looked at every profile picture, and his hair is the only hair that stands out. Not to mention he looks he looks 'enigmatic.' Nothing concrete, of course.


Also, where can one learn what Dr.Dragoon did?
I can't find the post right now, but a quick summary is...

In the last game, Shallow[bay] in MSpaint doctored up a screenshot of Dr.Dragoon PM'ing him something like

"hey, I just heard someone say you're mafia. I'm mafia too! Who should we kill first?"

Dr.Dragoons responce to this was "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo" so everyone thought it was real and voted to lynch Dr.Dragoon, who continued to defend himself/insult everyone else. Turns out Dragoon was innocent and Shallow was mafia.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 18 2008 23:42 GMT
#765
On March 19 2008 08:40 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I refuse to respond to PMs such as the one Artanis sent me, as I just KNOW he's going to doctor my response and post it.
Why would he need you to reply to him to doctor it? It's not that hard to take any regular PM and switch the names/date/time/message/etc.




but I'm sure you know that already
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-18 23:45:59
March 18 2008 23:44 GMT
#770
On March 19 2008 08:41 HeRoS)Pink wrote:
Well even if empyrean is telling a lie he's more clean than Ace (for me), Ace was defending Ghar's point of view (another candidate) + Ghar have clues against him, and the mafia has probably sent 2 candidates for the mayor's position and that could be the reason why Ghar was ready to give up his votes to Ace
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 01:28 Ghar wrote:
For people that might have missed my plans as mayor, the link is in my profile page.
And I support Ace. Don't know if he's towny or not, but we think alike. So should I end up not getting enough votes, Ace would make a nice alternative if we need to combine votes to win.

Why would he do that if he really wants to be the mayor? Cuz they both think alike? I dont think so, they had almost the same plan which is another coincidence. So Don't start voting for Ace because he's accusing Empyrean of being too much unsafe for the town.
-Pink
To be perfectly honest Ghar's move makes sense to me. I mean I'd assume most people running for mayor are running because they truly believe they could do a good job for the town. So if you're losing it'd make sense to endorse a more popular candidate who has similar ideas as you.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 00:07:11
March 19 2008 00:04 GMT
#796
On March 19 2008 08:56 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 08:55 Hot_Bid wrote:
35. Vharox
83. Chezinu


Unfortunately these two people playing are the same guy, the IP check confirms. Pretty BM if you ask me to register two accounts to play when it's so important for the game that you don't know who the other side are.

You guys should vote on whether we should ban him


Vharox you bastard.




also so this post isn't a total waste. Here's the latest voting tallies.
Mayor Elections Tally as of March 19 09:00 (TL/Korean time)

Ace - (20)
+ Show Spoiler +

Queasy,ahrara,Lenwe,MasterOfChaos,Fishball,Artanis[Xp],CDRdude,Joxxor,Ghar,
spoinka,Hittegods,Hollander,Naib,useless,GeneralStan,Shadowdrgn,Falcynn,zeks,
Mynock,Caller

Empyrean - (18)
+ Show Spoiler +
Heros)Pink,LucasWoJ,shallow[bay],LoStYouRSkiLLS,KH1031,LastRomantic,ImDerek, Meta,Eti307,Showtime,MTF,BloodyC0bbler,RST)Nightmare,NatsuTerran,Solosteer,
JimTudor,nemy,decafchicken

randombum - (10)
+ Show Spoiler +
Lysithea,Drdragoon,Alethios,G.S)Naruto,Sadir,fanatacist,Bockit,GranDim,Ninja4ever, so no fek

Ghar - (7)
+ Show Spoiler +
TranceStorm,Ace,Pangolin,Mandalor,Amber[Light],rpf,Ziel

araav - (8)
+ Show Spoiler +
AcrossFiveJulys,SonuvBob,RowdierBob,Klive5ive,xdark,Neax,Energies,qsr

Sonuvbob - (4)
+ Show Spoiler +
Chezinu,LTT.wurm,bumatlarge

fusionsdf - (3)
+ Show Spoiler +
~OpZ~ ,plexa,ZBIR

plexa - (2)
+ Show Spoiler +
ssj100,Seifu

LastRomantic - (1)
+ Show Spoiler +
aznvaliance
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 00:20 GMT
#813
Empyrean, you currently are in the lead for pardoner by 8 votes. I know that can change, but that's a pretty decent lead. Even if you don't get the mayor position, it seems almost certain you'll at least have body guard protection.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 00:42 GMT
#822
On March 19 2008 09:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 09:32 Kau wrote:
On March 19 2008 09:12 Ace wrote:
On March 19 2008 09:04 qrs wrote:

Edit: @ Ace: He's saying that every bodyguard would get a PM. Their PM would list Mafia members as bodyguards. Each bodyguard's PM would list (the same) fake bodyguards as their colleagues. None of the bodyguards would know the difference.


They'd still be caught. Ok let's look at like this:


Scenario 1:

There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with a Mafia Mayor who also sends out the PM.

We will know how many BGs are there when the elections are over. The Mafia can't leave 2 of the real Bodyguards off the list because the 2 that didn't get a PM would speak up. They can't just add an extra 2 to the PM because any BG getting a PM from the Mayor with 9 names obviously means the Mayor is clearly not thinking straight and is fishy.

Scenario 2:


There are 7 bodyguards total. 2 Mafia members "fake" PM the BG's with an Innocent Mayor who also sends out the PM.

The PMs from the Mayor don't match those 2 "fake" PMs. Even better, the names of those 2 fakers never even appear in the Mayor's original PM and they just outted themselves as Mafia for a pathetic chance at confusion.

How can the Mafia possibly get away with faking any of it without drawing attention to their members?


Ace, I don't see how scenario 1 would happen at all. Unless I don't understand how the game works (which is a definite possibility), this is how I see it using your numbers.

What everyone knows:
There are 7 bodyguards.
Only the mayor knows which 7 people are bodyguards.

Now, we assume that the mayor is also mafia, so he can coordinate with other mafia members.

Since he knows who each bodyguard is, he will send each of the 7 bodyguards a pm. Each pm will have 7 people in it: 6 mafia and 1 bodyguard. Each bodyguard gets pm'ed back by the mafia members (6 different pm's for each bodyguard) and so they believe there are 7 bodyguards. No bodyguards are left out. Each list sent contains 7 people. Each bodyguard recieves 6 confirmation pm's.


As I had said earlier, once one bodyguard dies, the other bodyguards would find out that the one that died isn't in their list and would obviously protest. Mayor gets lynched and people get the list of a large portion of the mafia, plus the mayor.

I have to agree. In the long run this "hole" would actually benefit the town alot more than it would benefit mafia.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 00:50 GMT
#832
Shallow...if fusion posted any screenshots of a PM do you really think anyone would believe him after what happened last game? If anything fusion would just be getting himself lynched.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 00:58:16
March 19 2008 00:56 GMT
#842
Also as much as I think this is a great plan, it also assumes that the detectives aren't selfish bastards. I mean if things go bad it pretty much forces a detective to sacrifice himself for the town, and IME despite how much they'd be helping, I don't think many people would be willing to do that.


Edit: OH I KNOW! If a detective is forced to sacrifice himself I'll have a memorial "plaque" on my blog to commemorate their selflessness, and maybe someone can whip up a cool picture for them ^_^
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 01:09 GMT
#851
If a detective comes clean about his role and says the mayor is mafia. We lynch the detective (this is why I was saying that a detective has to sacrifice himself and I was worried about this step) and if he turns blue, then we lynch the mayor next. With the mayor gone the bodyguards are mostly useless and they all reveal their lists. From there we can figure out the mafia.

This does mean that the Pardoner is an easy kill, but hoping that we communicate and work together well as a town, we (again, hopefully) won't be in dire need of him.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 01:23 GMT
#864
On March 19 2008 10:14 wurm wrote:
omg, 10 pages of bickering. I quit halfway through. Thank god for Falcynn's blog.
OH YEAH! Everyone loves the Falcynn!
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 01:33 GMT
#874
On March 19 2008 10:30 Kau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 10:16 qrs wrote:
On March 19 2008 09:58 CDRdude wrote:
After thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that there is no flaw.
+ Show Spoiler [Why there is no flaw] +

Okay. In this example, we will have 7 bodyguards, 1 mayor, 20 mafia, and a bunch of other people who aren't important, we can call them townies.

If the mayor is mafia, and is smart, he will do this:
Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 1
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6

As far as the legitimate bodyguard can tell, this is legit. The mafia will obviously claim to be bodyguards, and Bodyguard 1 won't know better.

Send a PM to:
Bodyguard 2
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6

Again, the real bodyguard can't tell the difference.

PM3:
Mafia 1
Mafia 2
.
.
.
Mafia 6

You should be getting the point by now. If you aren't, you probably don't deserve to be mayor.

The mafia mayor can do this a total of seven times, so that each bodyguard receives a PM with 6 other people on it. Each of those people insist that they are bodyguards, the real bodyguards won't know the difference, and no real bodyguard will be left out. Since no real bodyguard will be left out, nobody will stand out to say that they didn't receive a PM.

This can't last forever, but it can do a lot of damage. One of two things will happen; either a bodyguard will stand out, according to qrs' plan. The other (real) bodyguards will recognize him as not being in their group, and they'll cry out. Confusion ensues, but people will soon realize that the mayor is a mafioso. However, this takes a bit of time, and the mafia gets a good bit of damage in. BUT---once the real situation is discovered, mafia's 1-6 lives are forfeit. Net gain for the town. The mafia could avoid some of this by mixing in more bodyguards to the PM's, but even then it's a loss for the mafia, gain for the town.

The other possibility is if no bodyguard stands out (the mayor ignores qrs' plan) and a fake detective proclaims that the mayor is innocent. That's nice. However, that also assumes that no other detective checked on the mayor, which is unlikely to happen. Soon, the truth will come out, and the bodyguards will realize that the others in the message are fakes, and can be lynched/mad hatted/killed during the night/permabanned or whatever. End result: town is ahead. This will be a bit bloody, but about equal numbers of mafia and town will die here, so that's still +town.


How to avoid all the mess: Basically, qrs' plan is needed. A bodyguard has to step forward. All the real bodyguards will know whether or not he was included in the PM to them, so you don't have to confirm anything. Of course, that bodyguard will probably be gunned down during the night, but whatever, sucks for him.
Much as I hate to admit it, I believe my plan is flawed. As per Kau's post, a Mafia can identify himself as a bodyguard, and all the bodyguards will believe he is telling the truth. The Bodyguard plan is not failsafe after all. Unless someone comes up with something new, we will have to waste some detective power as Ghar has been saying.


We would only have to lose one detective.

Ace said that if the detectives find the mayor is innocent, then they say nothing. If the mayor is mafia, then the detectives speak out.

Now in the case the detectives speak out, we would first have to lynch the detective to see if he's an actual detective or mafia. If he's actual detective then we know the mayor is mafia. If he's mafia then we know the mayor is townie.

Hmm... Actually, what happens in the case the mayor is mafia, and a mafia-detective points him out along with real detective. Would we have to lynch both to be sure?
I'd assume so. Basically we just lynch everybody that claims to be detective. So hopefully one detective will find the will to claim that the mayor is mafia and after that the rest of the detectives should not say anything, because everyone else will get lynched as well.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 01:36:10
March 19 2008 01:35 GMT
#878
On March 19 2008 10:34 goldenkrnboi wrote:
what if the pardoner is mafia?
Then when he pardons someone a vigilante takes that person out the next night. If the person who got pardoned is mafia, then we lynch the pardoner next day.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 01:42 GMT
#881
Lol, don't worry. I kind of thought of that after posting it, but then goldenkrnboi told me I was clever and so I wanted to bask in the glory until someone decided to ruin it >.>

Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 02:18 GMT
#883
Oh damn, that's true. Even though all the detectives will probably be able to confide in Empyrean if he's found to be a towny, his own powers will probably be rendered useless since the mafia will try to keep the saboteur on him for at least the first few days/nights.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 03:55 GMT
#937
eh, well it's better to point out clues to the potential mayors than to just have them randomly lynch someone. I agree that at this stage of the game it's stupid to try to decisively claim that someone is mafia, however there's no harm in just discussing the clues now. Since what we discuss could influence the mayor's choice for who he lynches.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 04:52 GMT
#961
On March 19 2008 13:41 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 13:40 Chuiu wrote:
On March 19 2008 13:00 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
On March 19 2008 12:59 Ace wrote:
On March 19 2008 12:57 ahrara_ wrote:
I see clues as largely a means of supporting a suspicion, not the beginning of one. Like I said, if you've been following the thread, there have been people who've done some weird things that warrant suspicions. Nothing for sure, but plenty of starting points not based on clues.


This is something that needs constant repeating.


You seriously do remind me of Tracil last game. You just don't say "scum" as every second word.

As long as he's not using 'scum' and '<->' ten times a post... (seriously though <-> started to annoy the fuck out of me)


<-> <-> <-> wow it annoys me to type that, let alone read it.
eh? I don't recall Tracil using <-> that many times in his posts...it would be annoying though.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 15:46 GMT
#1021
For anyone who cares, Randombum just pulled ahead of Empyrean. Right now the vote tallies for the top 3 are.

Ace-31
randombum-20
Empyrean-18
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 15:55:56
March 19 2008 15:55 GMT
#1028
On March 20 2008 00:51 Ziel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 07:25 fusionsdf wrote:


suspicioussss....empy edited post!
Well he edited it out on the same minute as he original posted it, so he probably meant to post it in another topic.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 16:16:49
March 19 2008 16:16 GMT
#1033
On March 20 2008 01:13 Ziel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2008 09:09 Kau wrote:
On March 19 2008 09:02 Ace wrote:
On March 19 2008 08:57 Kau wrote:
Ace:

About your Bodyguard plan, what stops a mafia mayor from pming each actual bodyguard with a list that is something like:

mafia 1
mafia 2
mafia 3
bodyguard #

Each actual bodyguard would get a pm back from each of the fake mafia-bodyguards and they wouldn't know.

Then once the mayor gets checked by a detective, couldn't there be fake mafia-detectives that state that the mayor is innocent?


They can't because all the other Bodyguards that didn't get a PM would know something is wrong. In the event that they do that, it just helps the town because we can just apply all clues and DT/Jack power to that list of suspects and catch the Mafia asap.

No fake detective is going to spring forward and state the Mayor is innocent because they run the risk at having a real detective also step forward and once again we are back to place where we have confirmed a situation with at least 1 suspect as Mafia (because someone is lying) and a sure fire Mafia lynching.



What I'm saying is that the pm is sent to every real bodyguard. Say there are 3 bodyguards. 3 pms would be sent out:

Mafia 1
Mafia 2
Bodyguard 1

Mafia 1
Mafia 2
Bodyguard 2

Mafia 1
Mafia 2
Bodyguard 3

Each bodyguard would then get pms back from Mafia 1 and 2 and thus are "confirmed".

And about fake detectives springing forward and stating the mayor is innocent, the townies have no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't. We can't know when a real detective steps forward because he could very well be fake.


WOW. This is a big flaw in the DT plan -_- And I dont see any way we can go around it if we have a mafia major. We need to seriously rethink what the mayor's backup plans are gonna be in his first 100 days in office!

I'm starting to have suspicions with Ace, because despite his sound arguments right up to this post, he's persistent in that this flaw isn't even there (if Im correct from what I've read of his posts) :O

And to the person that suggested the idea that we a detective should come up, WHO would the brave soul be? And we have no way of verifying it's true! (Unless more detectives come up..but that would be plain stupid).

Though it seems its the most solid plan we have now, having to lose even one DT for this plan...The worst case scenario is that the mafias have taught out a real good plan to mess this up and we're not seeing it...Bah I dont even know if Im making much sense now...better reread some posts again.

We've gone over this a bunch of times already. A detective will check out the mayor, if he's mafia then the detective will post his findings. After that we lynch the detective, if he turns blue then we lynch the mayor (we lynch the detective to deter mafiosos from spreading false rumors and declaring themselves detective).


Edit: and dinmsab, you have to post your votes in Chuiu's blog, not here.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 17:08:28
March 19 2008 17:07 GMT
#1043
I'm just saying that if we find out the mayor is mafia, we'll know not to listen to anything he says. We can choose to lynch him, or we can choose not to. However if we do find out the mayor is mafia then we'll probably have to lynch him since it's doubtful he'd be willing to declare double lynches since he'll no longer be forced to work in the town's best interests.

However we're pretty much forced to check if the mayor is mafia, because if we don't then he can seriously fuck up the townies through persuasion. So if we get a mafia mayor we're pretty much fucked and everything we do beyond that point is just damage control.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 18:07 GMT
#1056
On March 20 2008 02:45 HotZhot wrote:
Still many people inactive, I hope the important roles are all playing actively
Well judging from the votes, about 95 people have cast in their votes which equates to roughly 75%. So even if they're not posting, at least 75% of the people playing are at least reading the thread. It's not great, but it's much better than last game at least.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 18:09:59
March 19 2008 18:09 GMT
#1058
On March 20 2008 03:07 RtS)Night[Mare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2008 02:45 ahrara_ wrote:
Just so I don't look like a total moron in case Empyrean turns out to be innocent ...

I am not saying Empyrean is Mafia. I don't even have strong suspicions at the moment. I would NOT vote to lynch him, and strongly suggest that paramedics protect him the first night, until we verify his role, and until he uses both his role checks himself. I am arguing from a logical point of view that there is no reason to trust that he is detective. There is no reason to believe he's not a detective either. I'm just saying that given that we can't trust anybody, it's equally likely randombum is a detective. Role claiming at this point is useless, and more likely to be a ploy. If Emp turns out ot be innocent, well fuck me. I'll end up looking like a moron, and Ace too. In my opinion though, it's better to be safe than sorry.


suicide bomber ftw
I'm sure mafia would want to save their suicide bomber for later in the game. As it stands I think his extra half-kill is more important for the early rounds.


EDIT: OMG CORSAIR! YIPEE!
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 18:16 GMT
#1060
eh...true.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 20:16:12
March 19 2008 20:14 GMT
#1095
On March 20 2008 05:09 Lenwe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2008 05:06 Vharox wrote:
On March 20 2008 04:44 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
By the way, I apologize to Vharox, I didn't even consider that it could be your brother, and you didn't seem like the kind to cheat when we were discussing last game.


Forgiven :-P <3


About that, I seriously don't see the reason why they would cheat in this game, so I vote we don't remove either of them from the game.

And stop accusing people of being mafia, we can't tell so far who is and who isn't. The only reasons to do it now is to cause more confusion amongst the town members and that is something town members should not try to do.
Noone's trying to get anyone lynched at this point. The only reason people are trying to figure out if Empyrean is mafia or not is because he's running for mayor and obviously a mafia mayor would be bad (and they're not even trying to be certain about his affiliation, only his likeliness of being mafia). All the other people interpreting clues aren't doing it because they're trying to get those people lynched, they're just getting some sleuthing started so that when more clues come in we can cross reference them with what we've already gathered. No harm in that.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 20:33:32
March 19 2008 20:33 GMT
#1098
On March 20 2008 05:27 BlindAlbino wrote:
yea but what makes you think they will call you out as mafia if they know that will happen? what if the detective knows you are mafia but just stays silent for his own greed? that is what im getting at.
Then that person would be a greedy asshole and everyone will continue to insult him throughout the rest of the game, and through the rest of the next game if he plays there.



Plus, if they sacrifice themselves I'll photoshop a memorial plaque for them or something.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 21:59 GMT
#1114
Awesome, glad you cleared all that up! Thanks
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 22:08:56
March 19 2008 22:03 GMT
#1117
Ace - 31
+ Show Spoiler +
BlindAlbino
Energies
Camlito
CDRdude
xDark.Carnivalx
JoxxOr
ghar
spoinka
Hittegods
Naib
useLess
ShadowDrgn
Falcynn
zeks
Caller
Artanis[Xp]
Fishball
MasterOfChaos
Lenwe
ahrara_
Queasy
NeaX
goldenkrnboi
French_Toast
Pangolin
Alethios
Yogurt
Empyrean
New104
clazziquai
Alventenie

randombum - 23
+ Show Spoiler +
LTT
L
GeneralStan
MTF
Showtime!
crazie-penguin
Hollander
Mynock
suresh0t
Dr.Dragoon
G.s)NarutO
Sadir
fanatacist
Bockit
BWdero
Ninja4ever.
So no fek
Lysithea
GrayArea
jeejee
Meta
iNfuNdiBuLuM
Ace

Empyrean - 18
+ Show Spoiler +
~OpZ~
Last Romantic
Meta
Eti307
RtS)Night[Mare
NatsuTerran
SoleSteeler
Jimtudor
nemY
decafchicken
imDerek
KH1031
LoStYouRSkiLLS
ShaLLoW[baY]
LucasWoJ
HeRoS)Pink
butidigress
GranDim

SonuvBob - 4
+ Show Spoiler +
MoRe_mInErAls
wurm
bumatlarge
Chezinu

araav - 5
+ Show Spoiler +
SonuvBob
RowdierBob
Klive5ive
qrs
AcrossFiveJulys

ghar - 4
+ Show Spoiler +
Amber[LighT]
rpf
Ziel
TranceStorm

fusionsdf - 4
+ Show Spoiler +
Scorch
Plexa
ZBiR
Kau

Plexa - 2
+ Show Spoiler +
ssj100
Siefu

Last Romantic - 2
+ Show Spoiler +
aZnvaLiaNce
d.arkive

Abstain - 6
+ Show Spoiler +
BloodyC0bbler
Wysp
HotZhot
MidnightGladius
randombum
CTStalker


oh, sorry Chuiu, didn't catch your post.


Well at least that's less work for you hopefully
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 23:01:36
March 19 2008 23:01 GMT
#1136
On March 20 2008 07:57 Lenwe wrote:
By that reasoning everyone that voted for someone without giving a reason is suspicious.
Yeah, that seems like a pretty good starting point to me.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 19 2008 23:26 GMT
#1139
If you're talking about the flaw posted here
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=40#786
or any variation of that, then it's been discussed already and so far it's agreed that there is no flaw.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 23:49:05
March 19 2008 23:48 GMT
#1144
This is probably a stupid question, but I figured I'd just ask it anyway to get it off my mind. Regular detectives only have 2 rolechecks per game. However if a jack uses the detective abilities, does he get the role checks back. Considering that when they use their veteran powers they regain their night lives, I figured I'd ask. (again, probably a dumb question, but I just wanted to let it out)


Also, being absolutely sure that our mayor isn't mafia is way more important imo than essentially wasting 3 role checks that wouldn't have needed to be used. So I encourage all detectives to use their role check if possible.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 23:52:13
March 19 2008 23:51 GMT
#1147
Yeah, hence why I said it was probably a stupid question. On the off chance that Jacks do get extra role checks however...well then asking this is way worth it ^_^
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-19 23:57:19
March 19 2008 23:56 GMT
#1151
I'm not saying that the Jacks should use a role check on the mayor, that's the detective's job. However knowing that we have extra role checks (even if they're limited to only 2 as well) is always good, so that we don't have to rely on the detectives for everything later in the game.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 00:08:01
March 20 2008 00:07 GMT
#1156
On March 20 2008 09:04 Caller wrote:
I have a concern with Ace's plan:

suppose that the mayor is townie and all the bodyguards get the right messages

then suppose that a mafia false claims that hes a bodyguard.

that means we'll end up killing several bodyguards and potentially the mayor for a mafiaso. not a good trade.
The detective's supposed to investigate the mayor (if I understand correctly) and the detective will announce if they find the mayor to be mafia. At which point we lynch the detective first. If he turns blue, then we go after the mayor next.

A detective for a mafia sounds like a bad trade, but it's the best we can get if it turns out we voted a mafia in.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 01:46 GMT
#1183
On March 20 2008 10:39 fusionsdf wrote:
any smart mafia will role claim towny

also:

Paramedics: Dont protect Empyrean. The reason should be obvious.
On the off chance that it isn't obvious enough. They'll probably sacrifice their suicide bomber to take out Empyrean+a couple of medics. Assuming that Empyrean really is a detective.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 03:07 GMT
#1218
Whoa, randombum was 3 votes away from mayor...people got a bit carried away there.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 03:21 GMT
#1226
On March 20 2008 12:20 randombum wrote:
Not me of course right? You mean a random townie, not the guy with random in his name correct?
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 04:12 GMT
#1247
On March 20 2008 13:08 Ace wrote:
I just walked in the house guys, give me a sec
Yay! Rejoice!
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 04:45:14
March 20 2008 04:44 GMT
#1303
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 04:52:19
March 20 2008 04:51 GMT
#1326
On March 20 2008 13:49 Showtime! wrote:
I'm not announcing it public. The fact of the matter is you could have killed 3 for the price of one if incontrol was even playing. We need another mad hatter.
I'm just gonna point out that's really suspicious. As has already been noted, it's doubtful that you have some inside information due to a role you might have seeing how noone's been able to use their roles yet, so the fact that you're witholding information shows that you have something to hide


>.>

<.<


Edit: Saying that the mafia is posting privately is a crappy excuse. The mafia posts privately because it helps keep their identities unknown. Townies rely purely on discussion and information...which you seem to be withholding.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 04:57 GMT
#1341
On March 20 2008 13:55 nemY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2008 13:48 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
On March 20 2008 13:46 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
On March 20 2008 13:45 Showtime! wrote:
Not only that he didn't even look to see who !@#$%! voted beforehand. He killed someone who wasn't even still in the game = uncool especially with all the damage he could have done.

Wait. Who do you propose he should have used the instant lynch on, if at all? I wanna hear your side.


I think Showtime! has made a few dodgy posts, this isn't a flat out accusation but I'm watching him carefully. There are also a few more that I'm being wary of.


More like he's pulling shit out of his ass.
lol yeah. Right now I'm getting the impression that showtime is either

A) Mafia
B) Really doesn't know anything, but wants people to believe he's clever.
C) Really really stubborn.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 05:06 GMT
#1353
On March 20 2008 14:05 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2008 14:01 Showtime! wrote:
I'm...drunk.

I think we have the explanation, guys. Nothing more to talk about.
Agreed, put into context all of his ramblings make sense now.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 05:41 GMT
#1396
On March 20 2008 14:39 aZnvaLiaNce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2008 14:37 Showtime! wrote:
No, I'm third generation.

No relation to the Black Donnelly's.

First of all, get your facts straight: I'm the Town Drunk. I should be able to toss beer bottles at people or have the option of slipping a roofie into someone's drink rendering them useless for one night. That would be a cool role.


Or how about this? You smash a couple bottles of beer on yourself and I toss you a lit match. I think that's a much more sound solution.
Beer doesn't actually have a high enough alcohol content to light someone on fire, but I get what you're getting at.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 06:11 GMT
#1422
On March 20 2008 15:00 rpf wrote:
What do you guys mean when you say you're going to "lynch a lurker"? I didn't play last round so I'm a little lost. T_T
They mean they're planning on lynching someone who votes (so they don't get kicked from the game) but doesn't contribute anything discussion wise into this thread.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 06:17 GMT
#1428
On March 20 2008 15:17 rpf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2008 15:15 aZnvaLiaNce wrote:
On March 20 2008 15:14 rpf wrote:
Ah, that makes sense.

So what happens if Ace is found to be a member of the mafia? Doesn't that really screw the townies over?


I believe a lot of us have already discussed this already. Having a mafia mayor can still benefit the town to a certain extent.

I haven't played before, and I'm sure as fuck not reading 72 pages of this thread to figure it out.
Then look at my blog!!!


/more shameless self promotion
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 16:59 GMT
#1510
On March 21 2008 00:39 Lysithea wrote:
Oh I forgot to ask, have someone googled/wikied about persons profiles etc and compiled it in a neat file or something? Just wondering cause I know I'll be too lazy to do it but it would become very handy later on.

On second thought, if someone has, they're probably waiting for Ace to be cleared towny to then funnel the information through him to avoid being killed.

For now, nevermind me.
Yeah, Araav did it. It should be in my blog, the first link in the "Lists" section.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 17:11:08
March 20 2008 17:00 GMT
#1511
Also if anyone wants to check out the clue interpretations/suspicions that have already been posted, I got them right here

Edit: fixed broken links

Sonuvbob's list of people he thinks are mafia+his reasoning
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=57#1132
Shallow[bay]'s list of all the people that the code names can relate to
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=31#602
Reason people think Ghar could be mafia.
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=20#391
IMO some pretty good interpretations by xDark.Carnivalx
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=23#456
More interpretations of what the code names could mean by Meta.
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=20#392
Clues from ShadowDrgn, these deal more with the dialog/action of the day post rather than the code names.
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=48#958
Sureshot posting some of his thoughts in a blog
http://teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=68254
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 17:10 GMT
#1513
Oh lol, yeah that'd take alot of work...

araav? You got any special program that might be able to do that? ^_^
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 18:15 GMT
#1524
So if we're just plain green townies you still want us to confirm with you?
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 18:56 GMT
#1551
On March 21 2008 03:49 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 03:42 qrs wrote:


IOW, let's just save some time and agree that no PM = claim to be a towny.


this idea makes no sense. No PM also means Mafia members just never have to worry about contacting me, and then they also know that not every townie has PM'd me so it's easier for them to just lay low and not get caught lying.

If everyone has to PM me, eventually I'll catch some role clashes and some lies.


I have to agree. Even though it's doubtful that the mafia could screw up something so simple, there's still the small chance they'll screw up and we'll be able to weed them out. A small chance of catching mafia is better than no chance.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 19:23 GMT
#1558
On March 21 2008 04:15 Lysithea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 04:09 Ace wrote:
I don't think you get it:

If everyone sent me a PM saying their townie - GREAT.

Now when all the blues PM me I know they all match up and are 100% confirmed.

So now I knock 34 names off the suspect list, incorporate them into the network and all suspects are also on the "vanilla townie" list.

A PM that tells me "hi I'm townie" holds a lot of weight.



That assumes no inactivees tho doesnt it? Say for example that mafia takes a chance on a blue role that happens to be inactive, before the 3day rule sets in they could've gotten alot of information. Also, that all people actually pm you... which I doubt will happen just because of lack of interest following this thread thoroughly. The only sure way to have the secure group... secure... is to systematically confirm their roles through various means... no?

Or am I totally misunderstanding something here?
That is possible, but considering the amount of risk in trying to guess a role that happens to be inactive is too great it seems doubtful that they'd try it.

Then again the amount of information they could get by getting into this network is probably worth more than one mafia's life so...ok I'm not really sure how to feel about this right now.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 21:43:54
March 20 2008 21:42 GMT
#1613
On March 21 2008 06:33 French_Toast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 06:22 CDRdude wrote:
On March 21 2008 06:18 French_Toast wrote:
Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that.

Perhaps you didn't see what happened in the last game; it was a worse rape than the OSL finals. The town needs to get it's act together this time, and start making a comeback. Also, the plan isn't that bad. It gives a known townie information, which always helps, and he can use that to reduce the odds of hitting town instead of mafia.


I saw perfectly what happened. However this time people are no longer n00bs and are really into it. If you read some of the posts, some people claimed to have spreadsheets of people's names, sigs, possible themes, who they accuse, and who they voted for. The town doesn't need a cheap-ass strategy like this one. This game is supposed to be about fun, not just winning. Same thing with chess, there is a strategy called fools-mate that allows you to win in like three turns. However, most people would rather play an actual game then to fool their opponent into losing so quickly. The reason? It's a game, it's supposed to be fun and challenging.
errrr...actually the reason most people don't lose to that is because if you can see it coming (and usually from the first move you can) it's pretty easy to stop. (unless you're thinking of something else)

Anyways, it kinda sounds like someone's just sore that mafia is gonna lose

...hmmm?

Also if we were doing anything illegal I'm sure Chuiu would've just stopped us, and it's not like this strategy is insta-win (far from it). If mafia is even slightly clever they'll be able to get around this.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 21:47 GMT
#1615
lol yeah, I don't really see where this is supposed to be cheap. All the mafia has to do is just PM "yeah I'm a regular townie" and bam, we're back at square one.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 22:29 GMT
#1631
On March 21 2008 07:18 decafchicken wrote:
I bet ace's plan is actually just annoy the mafia members into an outrage at how easy he makes it look for the town, giving themselves away.
Whether or not that's his plan, it seems to be working =D
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 22:36:05
March 20 2008 22:31 GMT
#1633
On March 21 2008 07:26 French_Toast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 07:15 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
On March 21 2008 06:18 French_Toast wrote:
Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that.


You must suck at starcraft and every other competitive game out there. The best players always find cheap exploits to gain a slight advantage over their opponents. Mafia is no exception, especially since this is a competitive forum for one of the most competitive games ever. If you wanted to lose, you shouldn't have joined in this game.

Unless, that is, you are mafia. Not neccessarily accusing you, you might just be really, really stupid. Same goes for HeroeS)Pink (should we be paying attention to the mr. pink clue or is that too obvious? Damn you for picking a clue like that chuiu).


Okay, first of all thanks for insulting me directly, now I have an excuse to put you down. Secondly, are you the type of n00b that when he gets a great game and plays it, he types in cheat codes automatically? Do you really like to replace skill with exploits? If so then games in general are not for you, especially StarCraft. Why do you think developers balance games out? StarCraft went through so many patches for that single purpose, that is why it's so competitive. And no, I don't want to lose, but I don't want to play unfair either! And if you were talking about cheesing for StarCraft, those aren't really exploits, they are valid strategies that can be countered.
That's a horrible example. We're playing this game perfectly within the boundaries of the rules, for your analogy to make any sense we would've had to do something drastic like hacking into everyone's accounts and checking their PM's.

If you want to talk about SC examples. We're 4pooling you mafia guys, and you're complaining about how we're ruining the game because of a "cheap" strategy that you can't get around (it's not that hard).


Edit: and obviously we're going to keep looking out for clues, but since there are like 130 guys, there are going to be times where clues point to more than one guy. So we need other tactics to narrow down the choices.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 22:46 GMT
#1640
On March 21 2008 07:43 French_Toast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 07:31 Falcynn wrote:
On March 21 2008 07:26 French_Toast wrote:
On March 21 2008 07:15 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
On March 21 2008 06:18 French_Toast wrote:
Wow, Ace's plan is so stupid and cheap. I liked the bodyguard plan but this is a sign of desperation. Yeah, guys let's make this game even more cheap! Lets have everyone pm their roles so we know who's lying! Seriously, if you want to keep this game fun, avoid cheap exploits like that.


You must suck at starcraft and every other competitive game out there. The best players always find cheap exploits to gain a slight advantage over their opponents. Mafia is no exception, especially since this is a competitive forum for one of the most competitive games ever. If you wanted to lose, you shouldn't have joined in this game.

Unless, that is, you are mafia. Not neccessarily accusing you, you might just be really, really stupid. Same goes for HeroeS)Pink (should we be paying attention to the mr. pink clue or is that too obvious? Damn you for picking a clue like that chuiu).


Okay, first of all thanks for insulting me directly, now I have an excuse to put you down. Secondly, are you the type of n00b that when he gets a great game and plays it, he types in cheat codes automatically? Do you really like to replace skill with exploits? If so then games in general are not for you, especially StarCraft. Why do you think developers balance games out? StarCraft went through so many patches for that single purpose, that is why it's so competitive. And no, I don't want to lose, but I don't want to play unfair either! And if you were talking about cheesing for StarCraft, those aren't really exploits, they are valid strategies that can be countered.
That's a horrible example. We're playing this game perfectly within the boundaries of the rules, for your analogy to make any sense we would've had to do something drastic like hacking into everyone's accounts and checking their PM's.

If you want to talk about SC examples. We're 4pooling you mafia guys, and you're complaining about how we're ruining the game because of a "cheap" strategy that you can't get around (it's not that hard).


Edit: and obviously we're going to keep looking out for clues, but since there are like 130 guys, there are obviously going to be times where clues point to more than one guy. So we need other tactics to narrow down the choices.

Of course you are playing by the rules, you just chose to go the wrong way to go about it. You are not hacking, or cheating, a better way to describe it would be glitching. Look, let's say everyone responds truthfully except for the Mafia. Unless the Mafia are stupid they will all claim to be townies. Now, what you have is, all special roles are safe and medics can be assigned via PM. Also you have 31 innocents and you know everyone's special role. So, then you could also coordinate attacks with vigilantes, investigations with detectives, and other stuff. HOW CHEAP IS THAT? You are pretty much assembling an organized army and reducing possible suspects by 31! This game is set for you! Unless the mafia are super awesome you are pretty much 4 pooling them.
I'm sure you guys will come up with something to counter this I'd rather not share how the mafia can counter this since I don't want to give them ideas, but it is possible. Town will gain a slight advantage, but mafia can still win easily.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 20 2008 23:01 GMT
#1646
Sorry, meant to say "At worst, town will gain a slight advantage..."

However despite that, this plan isn't 100% fool proof like you seem to be trying to make it out to be.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 23:12:12
March 20 2008 23:11 GMT
#1650
If I can come up with counters to what the mafia might be able to do, then I'll post what I'm thinking of right now. However if the mafia does what I'm thinking of, I'm not sure if there's a decent way to catch them. So until I can think of a way to close this hole, I'd rather not discuss it (since I'm hoping that the mafia won't think of it).
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-20 23:21:02
March 20 2008 23:19 GMT
#1653
On March 21 2008 08:15 French_Toast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 07:54 LucasWoJ wrote:
Jeez, it sounds like you're against the town winning. If it's by the rules, why complain about what you feel is inevitable victory? Sure sounds like your against the interest of the town. It sounds like you're a mafioso who's having trouble deciding on what to do.


I think I already addressed this, whatever I'll say it again. In the previous posts I made, one of my arguments was that it would make the game less fun. Mafia is supposed to be about digging up clues and dirt on people, convincing your theory is right to other people, and having fun in general. These kind of games can become epic and fun to read, but if you use a cheap win you will lose all of that.
TBH mafia is originally supposed to be played without any clues and you usually win using strategies like what we're using (ok...not really like them, but close enough). Clues are only used for large internet games where it's hard to personally get to know people and understand their character.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 21 2008 02:22 GMT
#1683
On March 21 2008 11:20 Lysithea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 10:45 ~OpZ~ wrote:
about roleblock


That's assuming mafia can't roleblock eachother.. can they?
Nothing in the OP says they can't roleblock other mafias. Would be nice if Chuiu could answer this otherwise the grand plan could've been to roleblock ace for "proof" and therefore get a shitload of info on blues.

Theorycrafting again, I'm pretty sure ace is legit myself, just getting my thoughts out there. I'd wait ~½-1day more before I'd completely trust him.
That wouldn't work, because the detective's still gonna check him out.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-21 03:11:11
March 21 2008 03:10 GMT
#1694
On March 21 2008 12:04 ahrara_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2008 11:18 SonuvBob wrote:
If Ace isn't roleblocked, it'll show up when he votes tomorrow (6 votes vs 1). It'd be a bad idea to lie about that.

It doesn't affect voting.
ehhh...I think Chuiu might have to clear that up. It says that it doesn't affect the right to vote, not how many votes you get.

Edit: damn, beaten by opz
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 21 2008 15:45 GMT
#1735
On March 22 2008 00:36 BlindAlbino wrote:
I was wonder, if mafia try hit me and i am "veteran" what happen? i dont understand
The next time you have a question like this, you'd probably be better off PM'ing Chuiu. Because now, if you're not mafia, the mafia are going to probably guess you're a veteran.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 21 2008 15:50 GMT
#1737
True. I was mostly just getting that out there, so that anyone else with a special role should just PM Chuiu if they have a question regarding their role.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 21 2008 15:58 GMT
#1741
On March 22 2008 00:53 Showtime! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2008 00:45 Falcynn wrote:
On March 22 2008 00:36 BlindAlbino wrote:
I was wonder, if mafia try hit me and i am "veteran" what happen? i dont understand
The next time you have a question like this, you'd probably be better off PM'ing Chuiu. Because now, if you're not mafia, the mafia are going to probably guess you're a veteran.


Or perhaps he is mafia trying to pose as one.

Misdirection leads to direction.
I already figured that hence why I said "if you're not mafia..."
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-22 06:06:52
March 22 2008 06:06 GMT
#1881
Ok, I just want to tell something to the mafia.

I asked Chuiu and he says if I die I can continue updating my blog as long as I keep it unbiased. So if you guys put a hit on me because of that, too bad. Even if you succeeded you wouldn't stop me


pp

Edit: still got 6 pages to read.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 22 2008 06:32 GMT
#1889
On March 22 2008 15:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2008 15:06 Falcynn wrote:
Ok, I just want to tell something to the mafia.

I asked Chuiu and he says if I die I can continue updating my blog as long as I keep it unbiased. So if you guys put a hit on me because of that, too bad. Even if you succeeded you wouldn't stop me


pp

Edit: still got 6 pages to read.


well, now we know one person who was targeted that didn't die. this wasn't a very smart post of you to make IMO... it really seems out of character for you.

it also seems to follow the trend that the mafia seem to be targeting active, thoughtful posters. although neax and goldenkrnboi are exceptions, perhaps they were killed to throw us off?

i'm going to bed... will catch up on clues with you guys tomorrow.
Yeah, I'm sleepy and not thinking straight, and coming home to see all of this just kind of got me overexcited. I know I'm going to regret that post. Anyways, the mafia should already know that I was protected due to the fact that I'm not dead.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-22 07:18:31
March 22 2008 07:18 GMT
#1896
Alright, now I'm REALLY going to bed. I added a new section to my blog if anyone cares, I think it might help us figure out on which clues would be good to look back on. If you'd like to help me out just PM or post anything you would like to add.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 22 2008 16:31 GMT
#1964
On March 23 2008 01:28 ZBiR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2008 01:22 L wrote:
Wow, i'm bad at linking images.

[image loading]


yeah, you are

And really, I don't think the mood icon could mean anything, it's much more probable that it links to quote or abundant smiley use in posts.
Yeah, it'd seem more plausible for the clue to be related to signatures than mood, because some people change their mood icons all the time. Also I guess I could just be defending it since I've had the same mood icon for the last 2~ years.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-22 17:44:43
March 22 2008 17:43 GMT
#1979
On March 23 2008 02:41 L wrote:
I hope i don't mess up my image linking..
Show nested quote +

Nah, you're wrong. Mr Pink used Mynock's head like a flail, he was holding Mynock's long hair and hitting with his head (which was attached to his hair obv)

[image loading]


Now that I think about it. that's kinda blatant.
Holy...shit. Nice find! Yeah, it's kind of obvious, but some of the clues from last game were blatantly obvious as well.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 22 2008 17:55 GMT
#1982
This recent finding along with the clue from last day.
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=20#391
makes me think Ghar should be a good candidate for lynching. The only thing I'm not sure about is why would Ghar try to enact that detective plan, because he would obviously be found out. Unless maybe he was sacrificing himself to rid the town of the mayor and possibly one or two detectives, and the ability to get rid of the bodyguards to get the pardoner. Seems like a pretty damn good motive actually...alright, I'm gonna put my vote for him and change it if something better comes up.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-22 18:06:24
March 22 2008 18:03 GMT
#1985
On March 23 2008 02:56 ZBiR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2008 02:41 L wrote:
I hope i don't mess up my image linking..

Nah, you're wrong. Mr Pink used Mynock's head like a flail, he was holding Mynock's long hair and hitting with his head (which was attached to his hair obv)

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Now that I think about it. that's kinda blatant.



oh shit, nice find!

Could you point where is this post of Ghar located? Cause I read the whole thread, but don't remember that pic.
EDIT: nvm, found it

http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=17#324
Right there.


Edit: awww too late.

Oh, and it seems Ghar announced his candidacy before the game started, so in a way he was pretty much forced to continue his campaign no matter what or people would get suspicious.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-22 20:06:07
March 22 2008 19:59 GMT
#1998
Just throwing this out there to Ace since he probably has his own plans, but maybe you can have one of the detectives ask Chuiu if the whole using Mynocks dismembered head as a flail is a clue that corresponds to Ghar. You don't have a limit to those kinds of questions I believe, so it wouldn't be much of a waste.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-22 20:14:14
March 22 2008 20:13 GMT
#2005
On March 23 2008 05:10 SonuvBob wrote:
We can't double lynch, Ace is roleblocked. =/
Well we can at least dig up more dirt on people so that Ace might coordinate the vigilantes to kill them tonight if we find any really strong leads.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 22 2008 20:21 GMT
#2008
I think we have until Sunday? Not sure, Day started yesterday and if Chuiu follows through with the whole 48 hours per half cycle, that should give us until tomorrow.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-22 22:09:50
March 22 2008 22:05 GMT
#2025
On March 23 2008 07:02 SonuvBob wrote:
Just a note: we need to kill 3 mafia before their killing power is reduced, so they'll still have (up to) 9 kills again tonight even if we lynch one. Getting the saboteur/suicide bomber early on would be pretty sweet though.

Show nested quote +
Mafia killing power formula this round: Max 9, Min 3. Mafia / 2 = killing power per night


Edit: nvm I'm an idiot.

or two, I forgot if Chuiu rounds their killing power up or down. If he rounds it down then we might be able to reduce it for tomorrow with a successful vigilante kill. However we might want to save those for later in the game.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 03:21 GMT
#2053
On March 23 2008 12:15 Ace wrote:
Also, I'm asking everyone that has voted so far to withdraw your votes.

I'll be leaving sometime soon, but a Mafia member is getting lynched today for sure unless someone messes up.

Wait...I'm confused, does this mean that you want us to retract our votes from Ghar? I'm asking because that second part makes it sound like we're voting correctly, but you're telling us to withdraw...
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 19:12 GMT
#2126
On March 24 2008 04:08 BlindAlbino wrote:
why does ace want us to PM role? you cant just trust everyone this is quite dumb.
Of course you can't trust everyone, this is obvious. However by forcing everyone to PM him he's forcing the mafia to lie, chances are they'll just say they're regular green townies and we're back at square one. Or they might take a risk and role claim as a blue, at which point it'll be slightly easier to snuff them out. The point is there's really no negative aspect to this part of the plan and a small chance it could greatly benefit us.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 19:37 GMT
#2133
To be honest, I think Chuiu put that 48 hour rule only because the towny's wanted the game to move faster (last game Chuiu only changed the days when it seemed like the towny's were pretty sure who they wanted to lynch). I'm sure that if it seems like we're not ready yet, Chuiu will let this day go on as long as it needs to.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-23 20:09:21
March 23 2008 20:07 GMT
#2137
On March 24 2008 05:04 LucasWoJ wrote:
Yeah, anyone pointing fingers at Ace is arousing my suspicions of being in the mafia. By not sending in the PMs, you're hurting the entire town. Anyone questioning Ace's trustworthiness should stop. If you haven't been following the thread and decided to read the last few posts, wrong move. Re-read the threat or go to falcyn's blog.

Requesting that a detective speak is just plain stupid too...Reread the thread, all of this was covered already.
haha yeah, this is starting to look like a rare game where the town is actually more organized than the mafia, and they're panicking :D

Edit: also could Chuiu tell us if he'd be willing to extend day if we're not ready yet?
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 20:13 GMT
#2142
On March 24 2008 05:10 HeRoS)Pink wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 05:07 Falcynn wrote:
On March 24 2008 05:04 LucasWoJ wrote:
Yeah, anyone pointing fingers at Ace is arousing my suspicions of being in the mafia. By not sending in the PMs, you're hurting the entire town. Anyone questioning Ace's trustworthiness should stop. If you haven't been following the thread and decided to read the last few posts, wrong move. Re-read the threat or go to falcyn's blog.

Requesting that a detective speak is just plain stupid too...Reread the thread, all of this was covered already.
haha yeah, this is starting to look like a rare game where the town is actually more organized than the mafia, and they're panicking :D

Edit: also could Chuiu tell us if he'd be willing to extend day if we're not ready yet?


That would be stupid to extend since this is a 48h circle, why giving an extra day because the town isnt ready ? rofl. the only valid reason for extending would be : chuiu not able to (holiday)
I'm saying that because last game there was no deadline, chuiu kept day going until it seemed obvious that the town was ready. He only put the 48h cycle because townies were complaining that day took too long. So since he made that change because the town wanted it, maybe he'd be willing to extend it again if the town wants it.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-23 20:33:37
March 23 2008 20:31 GMT
#2156
On March 24 2008 05:28 HeRoS)Pink wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 05:26 LucasWoJ wrote:
No, but apparently, the PMs Ace is missing is from vigilantes, which really hurts us since Ace already has a suspect list of 3-4 people (from what he said earlier).

Or some answer from the detective, since chuiu might not have answered yet
Chuiu said he'd answer detective questions ASAP. Seeing as how Chuiu seems to be online roughly every 5-8 hours, I believe enough time has passed to say that Ace is a towny.

Edit: also if you want to retract your statement, just do like me and put at the bottom of/above your post

"Edit: ignore this, useless info"

instead of removing your post. Since that seems pretty suspicious.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-23 20:35:41
March 23 2008 20:35 GMT
#2162
Also just very very small clue, but Heros)Pink has a pink milkshake/girl with a pink dress in his profile pic, and the two people in his picture are very very close "face to face".

I don't believe that Pink is mafia right now, but if he doesn't shut up I'm just gonna keep posting stuff like this.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 20:36 GMT
#2164
lol I know, just for future reference
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-23 20:39:48
March 23 2008 20:39 GMT
#2167
On March 24 2008 05:38 HeRoS)Pink wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 05:36 Ace wrote:
Why would you assume Lucas knows exactly what info I need?


Well my post was useless thats the resaon I edited @ first since it wasnt related to what he said, I'm trusting nobody except a few (not gonna list them)
Let me guess...there are only 19 people on your list of people you trust?


lol I'll stop hassling you now.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 20:49 GMT
#2173
On March 24 2008 05:46 Ace wrote:
ok guys here's the situation.

I'm trying to confirm one of my DTs. So I asked the person to check out another person who's role I obviously already know.

All my other DTs passed this test, so the last DT has to do this also.

That person hasn't responded so I'm very close to lynching them because I think they can't figure out what it is (obviously because they aren't a DT).
Wait...so now all of the DT's have no more role checks? I mean it's nice to have everyone confirmed, and I guess this is probably the best way to do it, but using up their role checks this quickly seems like it may cost us later. However if they/you use their other skills correctly I guess it shouldn't be a problem. Just voicing my concerns.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 20:52 GMT
#2179
On March 24 2008 05:49 Chuiu wrote:
I don't know where you people are getting this 'mafia vote on who to kill' crap. Its the same as it was last game and its clearly written in the roles that they decide as a group who to kill.

Night comes in about 7 hours. Tons of people were bitching about the game not moving fast enough and begging for 24h days and now you guys want 72 hours? I'm not extending it, if I do that then the 48h thing will mean nothing. But that doesn't mean I won't delay day or night due to personal reasons.
Ah, thanks for the confirmation. I guess in about 5-6 hours if Ace hasn't told us who to vote then we might just have to listen to ahrara and bandwagon Ghar.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 21:20 GMT
#2196
Also TLnet Attack is on, so if noone responds to anything for the next few hours...that's why.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 21:43 GMT
#2215
ok, it's confirmed, awesome. Too bad Mandalor.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 21:46 GMT
#2220
Alright, and just in case I put at the very top of my blog telling people to vote mandalor.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-23 21:53:13
March 23 2008 21:52 GMT
#2228
w00t, I knew you could be trusted Ace!


<3<3<3
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 21:59 GMT
#2234
On March 24 2008 06:57 ZBiR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 06:55 Empyrean wrote:
You guys, we still don't have absolute proof that Mandalor's mafia!

...

Yeah I voted for Mandalor.


You know that there is no such thing as absolute proof in this game?
(Well, except bodyguards being green, but that's given to mayor only)
I'm pretty sure Emp's just making fun of all those guys who seem to question just about everything.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 22:06 GMT
#2241
On March 24 2008 07:05 Scorch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 07:04 GeneralStan wrote:
How can we even be sure Ace isn't mafia?

how often does this question need to be answered? no detective stood up against him after checking his role, so he is 98% innocent.
*checks country* oh..Austria? Damn, could've sworn you were Romanian for a second.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 23 2008 22:43 GMT
#2252
pffft just use your imagination when you read the lynch posts. Instead of reading it "and so and so dropped from the gallows as his skin turned blah blah blah", just pretend you're reading "and as the soldering irons were pulled from his eyes after 10 minutes, it was clear that he was blah blah blah".
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-23 23:26:10
March 23 2008 23:25 GMT
#2265
Right now #1 is Ghar obviously because of the MSpaint he did and the clue from the first day that relates to his signature (8 cardinal directions in the post compared to his sig which claims a sort of surround)

#2 is Pink (there's the obvious Mr. Pink, but then his profile picture shows a girl in a pink dress, a pink milkshake, and the girl sitting very very close "face to face" with the boy).

#3 is French (no clues against him though).
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-23 23:27:02
March 23 2008 23:26 GMT
#2267
nah, if we're discussing clues I think we should discuss them here. We should only PM things that might cause danger to ourselves/the town.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 01:06 GMT
#2300
Kind of funny to see that Mandalor isn't even trying to defend his case (he was on earlier), he realizes he's fucked and is just taking it.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 01:39 GMT
#2317
On March 24 2008 10:24 BlindAlbino wrote:
what clue has been linked to mandalor? why so many vote? i still think str = mafia
If anyone's confused, what has happened (or from what I can figure out) is that some people PM'd Ace claiming to be detective. As a test Ace had them all role check a guy whose role he already knew. Out of all the people that claimed to be detective, Mandalor was the ONLY one to get the role check wrong. Also as I've said before, Mandalor was on earlier (and made a post I believe) and he didn't even try to defend his case, meaning that he probably realizes he's been outed and is just gonna take his punishment like a man.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 01:40 GMT
#2318
On March 24 2008 10:38 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 10:06 Falcynn wrote:
Kind of funny to see that Mandalor isn't even trying to defend his case (he was on earlier), he realizes he's fucked and is just taking it.
he's not online
He was online earlier, I saw him post a little while after Ace revealed his findings.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-24 01:45:55
March 24 2008 01:43 GMT
#2320
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=112#2227
right there


Edit: fine, and I'll link the post where Ace claims Mand got the question wrong -.-

ok, here's where Ace tells Mandalor he got the check wrong.
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67925&currentpage=111#2212
(notice that Manda's post I linked at the beginning of this post comes after Ace's)
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-24 01:48:05
March 24 2008 01:47 GMT
#2325
On March 24 2008 10:47 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 10:40 Falcynn wrote:
On March 24 2008 10:38 Plexa wrote:
On March 24 2008 10:06 Falcynn wrote:
Kind of funny to see that Mandalor isn't even trying to defend his case (he was on earlier), he realizes he's fucked and is just taking it.
he's not online
He was online earlier, I saw him post a little while after Ace revealed his findings.
Mandalor March 24, 2008 06:41 Thread: TL Mafia 2 [Day 2] Direct Link

Well, I had some rl going and chuiu didn't reply within 2 hours of my pm sent.
Sorry for that, I wrote you a PM now. Hope this clears things up. if not, gl town!

that was his defense

Look at my last post (bottom of the last page(page 116)).
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 03:19 GMT
#2346
On March 24 2008 12:10 ~OpZ~ wrote:
"That would be stupid to extend since this is a 48h circle, why giving an extra day because the town isnt ready ? rofl. the only valid reason for extending would be : chuiu not able to (holiday)"

I would like to call more attention to this post. It was made by heros)pink

Wtf man, wtf.
Pink was right that Chuiu wouldn't extend day, but the hostility that he showed in this and preceding posts seems to question his affiliation.


whoa...deja vu.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 03:22 GMT
#2350
lol, well as long as you're not stalking up on me with a gun or knife I'm fine with it.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 03:28 GMT
#2361
On March 24 2008 12:26 qrs wrote:
FWIW, I agree with Mr. Pink on this one. 48 hours a day is 48 hours a day--a rule is a rule. Why should the rules be bent to help the town? Some people are treating this like the town is somehow the "good" team that "should" win, but that's ridiculous. (And if you think a post like this is evidence that I'm Mafia, that's ridiculous as well.)

Besides, personally, I'd prefer to see the game move along instead of dragging out.
As I've already mentioned, we acknowledge that we were in the wrong. The issue isn't that Pink was telling us we couldn't extend day, the issue is the way he said it which seemed to evoke a hostile/panicked tone.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 03:30 GMT
#2363
On March 24 2008 12:28 HeRoS)Pink wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2008 12:26 ~OpZ~ wrote:
If we had Village Idiot as a role, I'd guess it was Pinkie.

ROFL, i used to play a game like this in real life and there was a role which was the *idiot of the town* his ability was if he's lynched by the town he have another life :D i would need a 2nd life atm :D
lol in forums where they have forum cash, the village idiot's role is to get himself lynched and if he succeeds he makes a predetermined amount of cash.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 03:54 GMT
#2379
Well usually Chuiu closes the votes about a half hour before he posts the day/night posts. So seeing how the votes are still open I'm guessing night won't come for another half hour/hour.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 04:12 GMT
#2382
It could also just be the fact that we've already looked through all the clues we can and are now just waiting for Mandalor to get lynched, then wait for the mafia to make their hits. After the next day post things should pick back up again.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 04:30 GMT
#2389
A huge night for both sides? Mind explaining? (unless you'd rather keep it secret for now)
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 04:36 GMT
#2391
Ah, well that makes sense.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-24 06:27:49
March 24 2008 06:27 GMT
#2401
Fuck yes! Ace, my faith in you has increased 10 fold just now.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-24 06:35:18
March 24 2008 06:34 GMT
#2409
Considering none of those guys are high profile suspects (except Pink maybe (heh...maybe that's why he voted for carnival last minute, he wanted us to check him)) I agree that checking all of them out would take up too much time.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 15:15 GMT
#2449
Wow...so would it be safe to assume that maybe the other 9 people abstained or voted someone else? Or would it be safer to assume that the other 9 people are probably just inactive?
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-24 15:29:20
March 24 2008 15:28 GMT
#2455
On March 25 2008 00:27 GeneralStan wrote:
Out of the 58 people that voted to lynch Mandalor, 10 are Mafia

That's a bold assertion. I'm curious how we know so certainly, as we certainly haven't had 58 detective checks.

BTW Good job Ace. We're going to win this game.
You do know that detectives are allowed to ask how many people voted for someone right?
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 15:41 GMT
#2460
On March 25 2008 00:39 LucasWoJ wrote:
And it gets slightly better too. If the mafia hits any of the guys who voted for mandalor, it becomes easier to find them. Even though I'd prefer to lose minimal townies, if that doesn't happen, we'll still be able to benefit in some way.

The mayor is much better this game than last game.
pffft, of course. Because this time we actually voted for a mayor based on his plans rather than "vote for me or else" :D
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 24 2008 15:54 GMT
#2468
On March 25 2008 00:51 GeneralStan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2008 00:28 Falcynn wrote:
On March 25 2008 00:27 GeneralStan wrote:
Out of the 58 people that voted to lynch Mandalor, 10 are Mafia

That's a bold assertion. I'm curious how we know so certainly, as we certainly haven't had 58 detective checks.

BTW Good job Ace. We're going to win this game.
You do know that detectives are allowed to ask how many people voted for someone right?


No

That's an imba abilility

Mafia watch out! We've got you in our crosshairs ^^.

This is so different than the last game. I feel like the town has competent leadership, a plan, and that this time the mafia is on the run.
For the most part nothing has changed between last game and this game. The only main differences are that mafia have special roles, and we have a good mayor.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 25 2008 01:45 GMT
#2605
On March 25 2008 10:31 RtS)Night[Mare wrote:
how can mafia quickly dispatch 6 bodyguards please?
I think that's something he should PM to Ace instead of posting it publicly
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 25 2008 14:14 GMT
#2729
I kind of wished that Ace would've held off telling this until day broke, but oh well, if he's right this will probably turn out for the best.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-27 04:01:00
March 27 2008 04:00 GMT
#3013
Holy shit, I'm still alive! Don't have much time to get too heavily into this anymore though...so hopefully you guys are still awesome at interpreting clues.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 27 2008 04:17 GMT
#3025
Some of those guys could be vigilantes. Vigilantes show up in the posts and have clues that link to them as well I believe.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 27 2008 04:55 GMT
#3046
On March 27 2008 13:47 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2008 13:17 xDark.Carnivalx wrote:
if you guys want me to go through and find all the dead peoples posts i will, but i won't do it until later tonight ;x

edit: and if someone has a faster way of finding all their posts, be it some trick i dont know or some script you can use, let me know please


figured i'd re-quote this so i can get a yay or nay on it(and if someone else is already doing it)
yay!
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 27 2008 05:46 GMT
#3069
On March 27 2008 14:14 randombum wrote:
I got it ace. You double lynch I'll pardon ghar.

Chuiu never changed OP to say how many we had. We have X number, and we all know X means unlimited. So do it!!
Just wondering...if you're going to pardon him, what's the point of double lynching?
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 28 2008 03:15 GMT
#3246
Wait...were you guys using your real profile names in the chat room? Wouldn't have been slightly more secure to just use codenames?

Well ok...it's pretty doubtful that someone would be a big enough douche to hack into a private chat room, but still...
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 28 2008 03:19 GMT
#3250
Ah, that makes sense. I still would've used code names, but then again I'm pretty much paranoid about everything.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-28 03:44:46
March 28 2008 03:44 GMT
#3264
On March 28 2008 12:41 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2008 12:39 Chuiu wrote:
I'm not going to do shit about this. Forming an alliance when you can't possibly know another players role is a risk as was making that chat room for discussion. You took the risk and someone you didn't want in it somehow got it. Not my fault! And if it leads to either the mafia or the town making a quick win you have only yourselves to blame.


Well, now we know Chuiu's Mafia
lol. Seriously though, it's nice to see that the game isn't going to end over this considering all the effort that's been put out so far. However if it's true what araav did then it's obviously pretty cheap (and he's a total douche), but I agree that this is the kind of situation that should've been prepared for =/
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 28 2008 03:58 GMT
#3271
On March 28 2008 12:55 bumatlarge wrote:
what exactly happened with araav that could drastically change the game?
Apparently he hacked into a private chat room that Ace had set up for people he had cleared 100% as being a blue townie.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 28 2008 14:59 GMT
#3339
On March 28 2008 22:58 NatsuTerran wrote:
What is up with people voting for both wurm and ghar in the vote blog? The lists are getting so screwed up.
It's part of Ace's plan. 9 people voted for Mandalor last game, so now he's splitting up the people who for Mandalor to vote for either wurm or bumatlarge (was originally ghar though). Then he'll have detectives check those lists, and continue narrowing down the list until we have 9 guaranteed mafia.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 29 2008 00:00 GMT
#3415
Sweet, I'm set for the day.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-29 19:36:47
March 29 2008 19:36 GMT
#3450
Well my faith has just decreased by a lot =/

I still trust Ace...but this is pretty disheartening.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-29 19:58:38
March 29 2008 19:57 GMT
#3463
On March 30 2008 04:40 Kau wrote:
This wouldn't have happened if wurm followed the plan and Ghar didn't draw his campaign picture haha.
Well the campaign picture wasn't his fault, and while wurm wasn't following orders I still don't think we should've lynched him. He claims that he protected me on night 1 and another medic also sent me a PM. The PM Chuiu sent me said that 2 medics protected me so the PM's I got from the two supposed medics all checked out. So unless Ace got a PM from another medic who claimed they saved me instead of wurm and the other guy, I see no reason to really put wurm as a prime suspect.

Of course I'm only saying that now after the revelation that Ace was wrong, still though, wurm hasn't given any cause for people to suspect him except that he didn't follow orders. And while people who don't follow orders can hinder our victory, we should wait 'til late game to take care of them.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 29 2008 20:07 GMT
#3466
On March 30 2008 05:03 Meta wrote:
i say we start throwing down everybody we've had real, physical clues for and stop lynching people who are just annoying. the mafia isn't stupid enough to just be annoying, i'd bet most of them have barely talked all game. so we take people we've had clues for (bumatlarge, grandim), start lynching them, and see what happens. we're not gonna get anywhere like this.
Good point, it's kinda doubtful that mafia would try to make a huge scene (well...except shallow from last game, but I'm sure the mafia this round has learned from his example). The people who are acting like douches are probably just bored townies.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-03-29 20:14:28
March 29 2008 20:14 GMT
#3471
I'm starting to realize that this plan of Ace's is probably more suited to smaller games. With a large game like this we have way too many people stirring shit up and confusing everybody.

edit: and we didn't have 7000 clues...more like 2.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 29 2008 21:57 GMT
#3480
On March 30 2008 06:48 Ace wrote:
1.) I also mentioned about 20 pages ago that the towel clue could have referred to wurm.

2.) The DT that was supposed to check the Ghar clue never did, and I wasnt around to make sure he could get pardoned.

3.) It was much more than wurm not cooperating, and I've explained this 1000 times.

4.) I'll probably just lay back and let you guys do as you please, I already know how to win the game but due to constant bitching I think I'll be silent and do things on my own.

Have fun.
aww don't be like that. Like I said, most of us (or at least me) are just pissed off right now at getting this lynch wrong. Don't give up now. Also I haven't been keeping up with the thread as much as I'd like, so if I assumed a few things wrongly then sorry.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
March 31 2008 04:12 GMT
#3544
lol, we're not allowed to elect a new mayor

oh and Ace, if you're still reading this, please don't give up on the town yet. People are gonna get pissed off when bad things happen, it's something that we all have to put up with, but we're (at least I am) sorry if our criticisms got to you.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
April 10 2008 03:34 GMT
#3948
On April 10 2008 11:29 CDRdude wrote:
Count me out for next game, I'm not doing much good here, and I'm not very active. I'll watch from the sidelines though.
Same, when this game started I was able to lurk through this thread 24/7, however I don't have that much time now and have pretty much dropped out of this game =/
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
April 13 2008 16:23 GMT
#4394
On April 14 2008 01:16 Ghar wrote:
I lynch Tasteless, he is mafia

[image loading]

[image loading]
lol? what tournaments were those from?
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
April 23 2008 22:44 GMT
#5067
OH WHAT THE FUCK!!!! I GET ALL OF MY SCHOOL SHIT DONE FINALLY AND YOU MOTHER FUCKERS KILL ME!!!


FUCK YOU!!!
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
May 09 2008 15:56 GMT
#5392
Whoa, I'm pretty sure someone noticed it already, but this is now the largest thread on TL :D


ok, I'll go back to lurking now.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
June 24 2008 23:31 GMT
#6319
36 townies to 4 mafia? GG, you guys got this in the bag.

Even though I died on like Day 4 or w/e I'm proud to be townie
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
October 23 2008 16:17 GMT
#6957
omgomgomg, :D
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