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On March 12 2008 11:33 Chuiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2008 11:30 Fen wrote:
Wow, I read those clues every time scouring them for anything that I thought could relate back to me. I was never aware of what a Fen was until it was pointed out to me near the end of the game. I thought chuiu just didnt have any clues that he could relate to me. I had a few ideas on what to point to you, I kinda liked the whole idea of you living in a fen though.  DapperDan had a 9/11 clue point to you one night, I think...
Haha that was the ony clue I was SURE was going to show up. I thought I was going to kill people as they were dialling emergency services and stuff.
Actually I like the whole swamp thing. It was really quite a common theme. And something that people would have suspected if they had of wiki'ed Fen. Im lucky everyone is too lazy 
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17018 Posts
Thanks for the post.
Why did you PM Shallow, though? He wouldn't have revealed anything.
EDIT: This is directed at the long series of PMs with Plexa.
Also, I'm very curious as to Tracil's thoughts.
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I dont get:
The other mafia kicked him to the floor, while grabbing a loaded gun on the table he said "nothing is wrong until you start saying it is" and ended kAra's life with a single bullet. (imderek)
One stayed out, cutting the phone lines, preparing for the case that the residents may make an emergency phone call. [fen]
This paragraph was DapperDan's, ask him for clarification if you need it.
I also dont get the whole quesadilla = manly thing
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On March 12 2008 11:46 fusionsdf wrote:
I dont get:
The other mafia kicked him to the floor, while grabbing a loaded gun on the table he said "nothing is wrong until you start saying it is" and ended kAra's life with a single bullet. (imderek)
One stayed out, cutting the phone lines, preparing for the case that the residents may make an emergency phone call. [fen]
This paragraph was DapperDan's, ask him for clarification if you need it.
I also dont get the whole quesadilla = manly thing
ditto
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On March 12 2008 11:42 Empyrean wrote:
Thanks for the post.
Why did you PM Shallow, though? He wouldn't have revealed anything.
EDIT: This is directed at the long series of PMs with Plexa.
Also, I'm very curious as to Tracil's thoughts.
We were out of the game and wouldnt have influenced it in any way. So he was willing to give general hints. Thats the only time I pmed him though.
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On March 12 2008 11:36 Chuiu wrote:
Oh and talk about doing a terrible job, Tracil was one of the worst players in the game. I think he was the best player the mafia had and wasn't even on their side. Didn't even pardon two people he openly admitted he thought were innocent.
Ooh, burn Funny though, I always trusted Tracil--and I was right--but I guess he never really helped, and went inactive at the end. IIRC, he said he'd not play the next game, so I guess it's better off for somebody. I kind of wish I had some kind of records of my thought process throughout the game, I don't remember what I was voting, much less thinking for some of my earlier decisions.
==edit==
On March 12 2008 11:46 fusionsdf wrote:
I also dont get the whole quesadilla = manly thing
I have a hard time remembering where, but at one game (proleague, starleage, I really don't recall), Quesadilla and another TLer were holding up a sign that said "Ream Men Cheese" and "Respekt tha west coast". Quesadillas are a type of mexican wrap that emphasizes cheese (and I'm awesome at making them too).
==edit2==
Wait a second! Empyrean edited his post above me! He's clearly a mafia
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On March 12 2008 11:38 Camlito wrote:Falcynn pointed it out, among other things that people missed.
And another reason why L2W was kept alive. I also tried to lay extremely low after that was pointed out.
I was just happy I was the mad scientist. I mean, how badass?
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On March 12 2008 11:37 fusionsdf wrote:oh god testing testing 123 so obvious 
me and falcynn pointed it out several times. no one listened though. .____.
hopefully townies learned this game and can take revenge next game.
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On March 12 2008 11:46 fusionsdf wrote:
I dont get:
One stayed out, cutting the phone lines, preparing for the case that the residents may make an emergency phone call. [fen]
This paragraph was DapperDan's, ask him for clarification if you need it.
If you have a look at my birthday, it might make a bit more sense.
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Im really surprised mafia didnt change quotes though....
I mean it took until like a week ago for someone to actually make a list.
so you guys had a huge opportunity even if it was risky
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.... whoops.
i fail. D:
anyways.
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didnt it show edits? Makes it obvious.
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On March 12 2008 11:59 goldenkrnboi wrote:
how come you never made any clues for ieatkids at all? =/
because he was a body guard?
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So when does the next game start?
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On March 12 2008 12:01 fusionsdf wrote:because he was a body guard?
....
i didn't say anything.
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17018 Posts
"A mafia had been infesting the quiet town for the past decade taking up positions of importance and gaining trust through misguided joy (to miss the mark) and position.(Empyrean)"
How did that relate to me? Misguided position?
EDIT: I'm off to bed! This has got to be some sort of record...taking only six days in order to force victory :D (or at least having the townies resign).
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My thoughts on the game, eh? I'm going to sound like a broken record, as well as a moralist. HOWEVER, here goes.
1) Ok. I actually predicted how the opening of the game was likely to play out. Huge numbers of inactive townies + what townies who WERE active basically voting on a whim or on cults of personality meant badness for town- that's why I tried, early on, to encourage behaviour that does more to produce content. It is *necessary* for townies to take stands. In fact, if you want my thoughts, you only have to go back to the early days of the game, look through my posts and note what I say about strategy. Town in general was far too sensationalist about small things AND FAR TOO UNWILLING TO LYNCH IN THE EARLY GAME. LYNCHING IS GOOD FOR TOWN. Being scared of the lynch, attacking people pushing lynching, and attacking people for acidentally lynching town are, alone, very stupid things to do.
2) Town had a very small margin of error throughout the game. The large number of mafia kills was bad enough, but it was practically guaranteed that mafia would get to coast through the first few days without problems. We were lucky that Shallow[bay] decided it was ok to do a really stupid thing and guarantee his future lynch (or in this case, vigkill). But one of the reasons I gave up after around Fakesteve's death was that it was going to be incredibly hard for town to catch up.
3) Speaking of Fakesteve, that right there is a textbook example of what not to do as town. Don't be antagonistic to everyone and try to think through how you're going to use your powers. Town SHOULD have some kind of order, and it was disheartening that he got elected without doing anything or discussing anything but 'elect me' and such.
4) To be honest, I still hate clues. No matter how you spin them they don't seem to be good for the game. I think either side would feel hard-done by them if the other won; the mafia can't really counteract clues (unlike a detective, whom they can kill), whereas town have tremendous trouble sorting through the text to avoid red herrings; I believed they would be virtually useless at the start of the game, and that any kills gained by hunting for clues were really no better than just picking at random and scoring like that.
5) Most valuable town players were almost certainly the vigilantes- I was seriously impressed with the accuracy they displayed. CDRDude and Live2Win played quite well too- I was disappointed that Live2Win eventually got lynched.
6) Shallow[Bay] would actually have been an excellent scum if he hadn't done such a stupid ploy early on- I will never know what he was thinking, most likely. Empyrean was very good as well. Of course, since only 4 scum got lynched, it can be said the rest of them did well, as well- but I account this just as much to town's bad play as anything. Nonetheless, good job to team scum.
7) My own play was.. eh. I should've taken the setup into account more than I did, and been more flexible in general. I'm not actually a pro detective when it comes to mafia, but I'm better than a sensationalist. Or so I think. Pardoner is a lame role and should never be used, since any lynch has an outside chance of getting scum at the least- and, of course, we don't get any information from a pardoning (and, of course, the thing *I* would do to a pardoner is lynch him the next day if he pardoned someone on the assumption that he's scum and pardoned them to save them.)
8) PMs... PMs are risky and I dislike them. I couldn't trust any of them, because any PM could be from scum, any correspondance you enter into could be with scum... not so true with regard to *elders*, of course. Fact is, though, PMs are generally too risky to send out, and I was saddened that they continued.
My summation of the game is that it's classic newbie mafia, with most of the usual mistakes- but these mistakes were inflated by the following.
-Large player count, which makes lurking an even more powerful scum tactic (as many townies are likely to lurk as well.)
-Large number of scum kills, which as I said before, make it difficult for town to recover from mislynches (and mislynches ALWAYS HAPPEN.)
-Clues, which encouraged discussion to go to as many bad places as they did good. Clues are totally arbitrary and I will always loathe them.
-Unclear deadlines for each day. I feel that regular deadlines must be posted and updated- a series of warnings could be pro (such as mods regularly stating how long is left until the deadline closes- especially in a game of this size.) I'm used to around 48-72 hour days, with lynch immediately occuring if one player obtains more than half the town voting for him.
-Lurking, again. Inactive townies are not something 'town should deal with', NOT WHEN THE GAME IS BALANCED ASSUMING TOWNIES ARE ACTIVE. They are people not playing the game and effective provide deadweight for scum to hide in. Any game of mafia should come with the tacit assumption that everyone involved IS GOING TO PLAY, and steps of some kind should be taken to ensure this. Replacements, modkills, whatever.
-I appreciate that some of my complaints are based more on the setup than the play involved. Take them with a grain of salt if you must. (I am, however, eager to debate what makes a good mafia setup vs. what doesn't.)
<->
I haven't started an alternate mafia game yet- sorry, stuff in RL really has caught up with me. I keep meaning to get to it and don't, but I won't make any promises.
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17018 Posts
Ok. I'm really going to sleep after this post.
The reason why I didn't change my signature after all the clues pointed at me was that it'd be even more suspicious. If all these clues pointed to my old signature, then I change it and another clue points at the new one, that'd basically 100% mark me as a mafia. I assumed townies would keep a running tally of important information such as this.
And thanks for thoughts, Tracil.
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On March 12 2008 11:46 fusionsdf wrote:
I dont get:
The other mafia kicked him to the floor, while grabbing a loaded gun on the table he said "nothing is wrong until you start saying it is" and ended kAra's life with a single bullet. (imderek)
One stayed out, cutting the phone lines, preparing for the case that the residents may make an emergency phone call. [fen]
This paragraph was DapperDan's, ask him for clarification if you need it.
I also dont get the whole quesadilla = manly thing
First one is him being shakespearean, as many of his clues were.
Second one is reference to Fen's birthday, 9/11 ... I think. I'm pretty sure it was.
On March 12 2008 12:02 randombum wrote:
So when does the next game start?
This weekend.
New mafia thread will be posted tomorrow, I need more time to determine who was active and not this game and to edit the OP to reflect a new list with new roles and such.
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Ahh ok, I was just confused because when you announced you were going to post the clues soon the new game would follow. I inferred (incorrectly) that meant like an hour or so after clues the next game would begin. I guess I'm just impatiant.
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EPT
