Sweet Summer Mafia

On June 08 2024 05:32 sandroba wrote:
I might be biased, here but I like oats. I like his point here about vivax post's being substantially more conservative than what we've seen from him as town in his past couple games.

On June 08 2024 05:41 sandroba wrote:
Not calling oats town btw, after the last game I learned to reject all my oats inclinations. I said I like him and what he is saying.

This is good interaction for oats post flip

For vivax this reads more like distancing to me
Will archive as a point of note

On June 08 2024 06:01 sandroba wrote:
Rayn on rsoul: I had similar thoughts to her from reading the initial pages and had a town lean. Her random call out on me seems contrived because she herself does not comment on anything else besides accusing me of lack of commentary. If she really believes I missed something important or more telling than the stuff on scott I would expect she would have commented on that when re-entering the thread. She is in the null pile

on kelsier his dismissive attitude towards mocsta's post and not making an effort to understand where he was coming from was totally carefree, it felt really townie

I'm willing to have a think about koshi alignment if I'm around tomorrow

This doesn't look like distancing to me

And then add this

On June 10 2024 23:40 sandroba wrote:
Oats is either town or mafia with rsoul. If rsoul is town I don't think it's ever reasonable for oats to be mafia. There is just too much effort and insistence arguing against rsoul about her misrepresentation / misinterpretation of my post.

I hate to say it I'm really inclined to drop my hard scum read on koshi

Another string in the bow to vivax

On June 11 2024 03:45 sandroba wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 10 2024 19:32 Mocsta wrote:

On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:
Vivax

Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r:

On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:

On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier

He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish

I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie

...

I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read

I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him.

Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that.

On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:

On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:

On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.

Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho

If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town.

Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome.

There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess.

I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway.

On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.

Kelsier might have given up as either alignment.

Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337:

On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:

On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:

On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:

On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:

On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:

On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:

On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.

Kelsier might have given up as either alignment.

town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing?

at the risk of answering for viva

if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either

1) try to get the lynch off them
2) shit up the thread

or they just roll over

i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch?

i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around

salient notion

alphazero - where does that sit with you?

Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously.

We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened.

Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo.

I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read.
Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well.
Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid.
What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted.
Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word.
Kelsi3r - nuff said
Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself.
Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either.

On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:

On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:

On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:

On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that

when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.

my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.

now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that.

AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such.

But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours.

Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded.

Town.

Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question.

If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ?

And then this?

On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig

He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch.

Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town:

On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.

Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him.

On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:

On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:

how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az

Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable.

Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable.

I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel.

The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so.

On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia.

On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:

On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:

On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:

On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:

On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so.

help me out, im being dumb dumb

the only reason i can see is this from marv
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302

like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally?

i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally?

It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped.

Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough.

i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building

i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation.

i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though.

Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him.

My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes.

Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider.

Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead?

It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all:

On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:

On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:

On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.

I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.

I love GabeN

Is scott31337 mafia still?

I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t.

The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate.

wow this is great. Love the pick up about appeal to majority consensus as well. Very scummy yet didn't register to me in when reading in the moment

Took me like 3-4 blocks to go through this because of all the quotes. I will probably clean this up for you a bit later today so reads cleaner

##vote:vivax

Listen, this is usually what gets Vivax lynched every game. Some sort of inconsistency or misplaced emotion that makes no sense from a town perspective. I don't think vivax is mafia this game, and even if I'm wrong about this and he is it's at best a crap shoot, because the game where palmar lead his lynch day1 looked exactly like this.
Look I'm just as lost as the next guy, I'm thinking this has to be koshi + rayn + slam/dmb basically by poe - but I think going for vivax right now is a mistake.

Damn I'm so bad at this !!

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