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On March 12 2024 15:41 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2024 15:35 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 12 2024 15:23 Jealous wrote:
Can you elaborate on why CC is town now that VE is town? Because instead of taking the easy dogpile on the wagon, she voted for herself? I mean yeah that is pretty much it tbh. In the situation where be and cc are scum they might be helpless and both self vote and be sad in qt right? But they aren't, game isn't hopeless, at least two hidden or semi hidden scum out there. Cupcake would have at least the most basic social requirement to them to hold on slightly longer so they have more chance of winning. Hence cc is town who feels they are playing solo and depressed. Thanks. Not pressuring you directly FWIW, just wanted to bounce ideas and have it said to me in a different way than the way I have been reading it myself through the WIFOM/WIOM fog. Fucked up part is I can totally see it this way. Have to do some thinking about whether coached scum!CopCake can pull this off for a worst-case 1 for 1 with VE, knowing that both are likely to be lynched, you know? I can see the TvT lynch scenario now for the same reasons you listed, though. Need a clearer mind to wade through the BS. Sad part is both played so scummy IMO that it's hard to accept an alternative to one of them being scum, but it does indeed feel more likely than before 
Jealous why did you vote cc after this point made by JSL
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On March 14 2024 00:18 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2024 00:03 iamperfection wrote:On March 13 2024 23:59 Koshi wrote:On March 06 2024 08:48 Jealous wrote:On March 06 2024 08:28 Palmar wrote:
I think Jealous is complaining (he didn't quote it correctly) about my post encouraging Hapa to just play at a lower effort level.
I disagree with Jealous, I think that was a very townie post by me. Yea, my apologies, I only realized on the re-read that I somehow lost that post into somewhere else. But, I'm glad you brought it up. For posterity (so everyone else knows what I was referring to): On March 05 2024 23:58 Palmar wrote:On March 05 2024 23:50 Hapahauli wrote:
Not a damn thing. I don't want to be a buzz kill or anything, but I literally cannot bring myself to even try every time I sit down and try to start You don't actually have to read the thread, god knows I haven't. Just start talking with people. Mafia is incredibly hard and these people spam like their life depends on it. You just kinda have to accept that you're not playing at 100% capacity and be okay with it. Admitting you haven't read the thread just doesn't feel like a smart thing to be doing regardless of whether you're mafia or town IMO, but especially town. If you're not trying to catch inconsistencies, see apparent partnerships or dissect whether a conflict is genuine or manufactured, what are we doing here? Like, yea, asking questions and using that info to inform your decisions is a thing you're supposed to do, but without a frame of reference it just feels like it's not helping town and can just lead to more confusion than anything. But, you're a more experienced player than me and might have just been trying to be kind to Hapa, I can concede that. In general I liked how you've been posting recently for the most part, but you were also under the microscope for a bit so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Looking forward to see what you do going forward. The bolded is something that I call disengaging. Shows you dont really want to talk to this person. Another thing that I notice is that Jealous asks at least 5 times after his read post on an opinion on JAT. Which is fucking weird.because JAT was a non factor this entire game. Not necessarily true. Jat was a major wagon day 1. Basically this. I catch up to the thread and it's JAT vs. Trfel, I look into Koshi's argument on Trfel and ask for someone to help me understand why JAT over Trfel the same way Koshi helped me look into why Trfel over JAT.
Really. This was situated then?
Ok i need to look at those posts better. I thought all this was before JAT was looked at. When he was just focused on Vivax/me and the mayor issue.
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On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb.
March 06 2024 09:14
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On March 14 2024 00:19 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2024 15:41 Jealous wrote:On March 12 2024 15:35 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 12 2024 15:23 Jealous wrote:
Can you elaborate on why CC is town now that VE is town? Because instead of taking the easy dogpile on the wagon, she voted for herself? I mean yeah that is pretty much it tbh. In the situation where be and cc are scum they might be helpless and both self vote and be sad in qt right? But they aren't, game isn't hopeless, at least two hidden or semi hidden scum out there. Cupcake would have at least the most basic social requirement to them to hold on slightly longer so they have more chance of winning. Hence cc is town who feels they are playing solo and depressed. Thanks. Not pressuring you directly FWIW, just wanted to bounce ideas and have it said to me in a different way than the way I have been reading it myself through the WIFOM/WIOM fog. Fucked up part is I can totally see it this way. Have to do some thinking about whether coached scum!CopCake can pull this off for a worst-case 1 for 1 with VE, knowing that both are likely to be lynched, you know? I can see the TvT lynch scenario now for the same reasons you listed, though. Need a clearer mind to wade through the BS. Sad part is both played so scummy IMO that it's hard to accept an alternative to one of them being scum, but it does indeed feel more likely than before Jealous why did you vote cc after this point made by JSL
Because even though I can acknowledge a point someone made and their genuine belief in it, I can still feel that my original position makes more sense overall? It may have shifted my confidence from 90% to 80% but not enough to get me to change my mind entirely?
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Ok I am wrong. You asked 5 times about JAT in the heat of the battle while JAT was getting votes.
Well. In a world where JAT is mafia. That doesnt look good. The hesitance to take a stance is real. I should check if you ever voted JAT. That could save you.
On March 06 2024 08:46 Grackaroni wrote:
Day One Vote Count
Mayor
Vivax (11): raynpelikoneet, Rels, Vivax, DarthPunk, die_meatbaby, Koshi, Alakaslam, JacobStrangelove, Meapak_Ziphh, marvellosity, Palmar, Jealous, Trfel
raynpelikoneet (3): JacobStrangelove, Alakaslam, raynpelikoneet, Iamperfection, raynpelikoneet, VisceraEyes
Oatsmaster (1): Oatsmaster
Koshi (1): Koshi, justanothertownie
Not Voting (4): sandroba, CopCake, Hapahauli, ToTheStars
With 11 votes, Vivax is currently set to be elected!
Lynch
Trfel (6): iamperfection, Vivax, DarthPunk, JacobStrangelove, Alakaslam, Justanothertownie, Vivax, marvellosity, Koshi
Justanothertownie (4): sandroba, Palmar, DarthPunk, Vivax, DarthPunk, JacobStrangelove
Palmar (2) : marvellosity, justanothertownie, Alakaslam, sandroba, DarthPunk, Koshi, raynpelikoneet, Trfel
ToTheStars (1): Rels, CopCake, JacobStrangelove, Vivax
Oatsmaster (1) : Vivax, VisceraEyes, DarthPunk
JacobStrangelove (1): CopCake, DarthPunk
CopCake (1): Oatsmaster, DarthPunk, Meapak_Ziphh
die_meatbaby (1): Oatsmaster
Hapahauli (0): Alakaslam
VisceraEyes (0): iamperfection, sandroba, Vivax, Oatsmaster
DarthPunk (0) : raynpelikoneet
iamperfection (0): DarthPunk
Koshi (0) : JacobStrangelove, Oatsmaster, sandroba
raynpelikoneet (0) : DarthPunk
Alakaslam (0) Oatsmaster, CopCake
Vivax (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting(4): Jealous, die_meatbaby, Hapahauli, ToTheStars
With 6 votes, Trfel is currently set to be lynched!
Let me know if you see any votes misplaced
The deadline is Wednesday, Mar 06 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
March 06 2024 08:46
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On March 12 2024 10:59 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2024 10:57 iamperfection wrote:
before i get clouded by the result of this. I dont think a mafia rels comes in here to save cop whatever cop is like he did here. Does scum!iamp sheep him though? 🤣
Jealous is 80% sure that cop is mafia.
This is his first reaction to iamp switching.
He laughs about his own notion that iamp can be mafia off that.
That‘s mafia ‚sanity‘.
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Holy fuck look at the lynch.
Lolololol
On March 05 2024 11:02 Grackaroni wrote:
Day One Vote Count
Mayor
Vivax (6): raynpelikoneet, Rels, Vivax, DarthPunk, die_meatbaby, Koshi, Alakaslam
raynpelikoneet (3): JacobStrangelove, Alakaslam, raynpelikoneet, Iamperfection, raynpelikoneet
Oatsmaster (1): Oatsmaster
Koshi (1): Koshi, justanothertownie
Not Voting (10):
With 6 votes, Vivax is currently set to be elected!
Lynch
Oatsmaster (3) : Vivax, VisceraEyes, DarthPunk
ToTheStars (3): Rels, CopCake, JacobStrangelove
Palmar (3) : marvellosity, justanothertownie, Alakaslam
VisceraEyes (2): iamperfection, sandroba, Vivax, Oatsmaster
Koshi (1) : JacobStrangelove, Oatsmaster, sandroba
DarthPunk (1) : raynpelikoneet
raynpelikoneet (0) : DarthPunk
CopCake (0): Oatsmaster, DarthPunk
Alakaslam (0) Oatsmaster, CopCake
Vivax (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting(8):
With 3 votes, Oatsmaster is currently set to be lynched!
Let me know if you see any votes misplaced
The deadline is Wednesday, Mar 06 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
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Basically he‘s just someone who skirts through by sucking up to the big boys
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Bro, after coming into the game like 36 hours late I sheeped your read and vote on Trfel, which in your world looks bad for me that I didn't vote for JAT? Lmao
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On March 14 2024 00:28 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2024 10:59 Jealous wrote:On March 12 2024 10:57 iamperfection wrote:
before i get clouded by the result of this. I dont think a mafia rels comes in here to save cop whatever cop is like he did here. Does scum!iamp sheep him though? 🤣 Jealous is 80% sure that cop is mafia. This is his first reaction to iamp switching. He laughs about his own notion that iamp can be mafia off that. That‘s mafia ‚sanity‘.
I havent read this part. I don't get what is happening here.
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On March 14 2024 00:30 Jealous wrote:
Bro, after coming into the game like 36 hours late I sheeped your read and vote on Trfel, which in your world looks bad for me that I didn't vote for JAT? Lmao
Because JAT is mafia
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On March 14 2024 00:30 Jealous wrote:
Bro, after coming into the game like 36 hours late I sheeped your read and vote on Trfel, which in your world looks bad for me that I didn't vote for JAT? Lmao
Some say trfel was iamps wagon, some say it was mine depending on how it suits them at the moment.
You spend too much time arguing about my bad votes when you should know I‘m confirmed town so that makes you a lowly shitflinger, not a scumhunter
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Does jat give his reason for thinking palmar isn't mafia?
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You put special emphasis on how I voted Ve when you were on Oats but you had no intention of calling me mafia
You can‘t prove you‘re town so you have to resort to discrediting.
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I see he doesn't think it but where he say why.
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On March 14 2024 00:33 iamperfection wrote:
Does jat give his reason for thinking palmar isn't mafia?
Sheep read of marv
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On March 12 2024 21:53 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2024 20:55 iamperfection wrote:
So jat is palmar scum? You diminished the case but it wasn't super clear if you disagreed with the whole thing. I have said multiple times now that I think he is probably town. I trust Marvs ability to read him over my own and he said he is 90 % town.
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On March 14 2024 00:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2024 00:30 Jealous wrote:
Bro, after coming into the game like 36 hours late I sheeped your read and vote on Trfel, which in your world looks bad for me that I didn't vote for JAT? Lmao Some say trfel was iamps wagon, some say it was mine depending on how it suits them at the moment. You spend too much time arguing about my bad votes when you should know I‘m confirmed town so that makes you a lowly shitflinger, not a scumhunter
Was responding to Koshi, because Koshi is the one who gave me the read on Trfel on D1.
The timing of the posts here was unfortunate because your post came up between mine and Koshi's, so I can forgive the self-insert here, but as I said earlier, I'm done defending myself against you. For example, your most recent interpretation of my scum!iamp quote is the most ungenerous interpretation possible, because you already scum read me and will just twist any post you find to fit your narrative. That's fine, keep digging that tunnel.
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On March 14 2024 00:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2024 21:53 justanothertownie wrote:On March 12 2024 20:55 iamperfection wrote:
So jat is palmar scum? You diminished the case but it wasn't super clear if you disagreed with the whole thing. I have said multiple times now that I think he is probably town. I trust Marvs ability to read him over my own and he said he is 90 % town.
Oh yeah. That's kind of weak palmar said the same thing to in reference to me.
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If anybody wants to experience beauty in its purest form:
read my page 18-now and see how I evolve towards this Palmar/JAT/dmb or Jealous scumteam.
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EPT
