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A Classy Game of Mafia - Page 379

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
March 13 2024 13:17 GMT
#7561
On March 13 2024 22:15 Palmar wrote:
I was perfectly fine with the little interaction between her and Vivax where they were worrying about axe murderers. They seemed to agree they're safe.

Keep thinking that...

What are you saying?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
March 13 2024 13:19 GMT
#7562
On March 13 2024 22:16 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:14 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:11 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:04 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:00 Palmar wrote:
By the way I feel like I've noticed you getting hung on weird stuff that is completely expected several times this game iamp.

The only reason I'm givivng you a tiny town read is that I think I'm sheeping marv.

? You have played with me before why do you have to sheep marv

See this is the kinda shit that bothers me. Why wouldn't I sheep marv? He's a really, really good town player that I respect. What on earth is weird about that?

I'll do a highlight of other instances of you being weird:

On March 12 2024 07:07 Palmar wrote:
On March 12 2024 07:04 iamperfection wrote:
On March 12 2024 07:02 Palmar wrote:
On March 12 2024 06:59 Jealous wrote:
Feels like Koshi went into that filter with the outcome already in mind.


Oh he absolutely did, not sure that says anything though

How can it not say anything? I don't get why you openly reject what he is saying. It looks like your not trying to figure out his or cc alignment. Which of course is super scummy.

Why the shade on this?

I have plenty of explanations for my own reasons behind leaning slight town on koshi and cc as a pretty wild-cardy null at the moment.

I don't think it says anything about Koshi that he wrote a case to support his conclusion, he's been plenty vocal that he thinks cc is town. It would actually be surprising if he didn't write that towncase with the outcome already established....

Actually almost all cases are written with the outcome already in mind I think, do you disagree?


For some reason iamp doesn't know why people write cases? Cases are there to convince other people of your existing conclusions... usually.

On March 12 2024 01:08 Palmar wrote:
On March 12 2024 01:00 iamperfection wrote:
You are a bufoon. I literally lead the wagon on trfel.

I said it's just a feeling that I can't back up.

I had a similar feeling about Trfel last game, and when I finally bothered reading him I came away thinking lock town. That's a big part of how we won that game.

You're not up for lynch today, so it doesn't really matter to me.


Iamp gets mad and claims to have lead the wagon on day 1? I don't remember it that way, but I didn't care much about the trfel wagon. Why do you care?

On March 07 2024 01:09 Palmar wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:04 iamperfection wrote:
If you both think each other is mafia why is there all this mucking up the thread with each other.

Quit bitching, the upper class is having a meeting.


Iamp complains about me and rayn arguing with each other in the process of figuring out each other's alignment? Why not just let us hash it out?

On March 07 2024 01:14 Palmar wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:13 iamperfection wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:12 Palmar wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:12 iamperfection wrote:
On March 06 2024 08:55 Palmar wrote:
I'm finalizing here.

I like a bunch of mafia in:

rayn
jat
rels
mz
tts

then there's gonna be some mafia in the people who should be killed on policy

vivax
trfel
hapa


then there's the people that need constant monitoring and need to improve

iamp
marv
jealous
copcake
slam
ve

and finally we have the people I have somewhere from mild to good reasons to think are town

sandro
oats
dp
dmb
jls
koshi

None of the lists are in any particular order

I don't really think Trfel will flip mafia. It's just a "I believe in people" read that he wouldn't fuck off like that as mafia with the whole "If I get lynched I get lynched" thing. But it's an objectively good lynch so I'm not going to fight it all that hard. Leaving my vote on jat. I've been burned before by placing too much faith in people not doing crazy things as mafia so it's whatever.

Like looking at this post you have trfel as a policy lynch but in the bottom it isn't.


yeah, makes perfect sense right?

No lol. Looks like your just making up shit to me.

Did you notice that I also called Vivax town!

How cool is that?


Iamp for some reason doesn't know what a policy lynch is?

It's all strange and I don't really like it. Not even sure it makes him mafia, just annoying to deal with. I would need to dive into that filter of endless oneliners to actually reach a harder conclusion but it's whatever.

It's not endless one liners. I am clearly town you not seeing that on your own makes me think your mafia because your clearly not reading my posts then. I have given my thoughts on every player in the game several times.


He said replying with a oneliner.

Hey I know I'm almost (but not quite) as bad as treating forum mafia as an IM tool.

And I do NOT deny not having read your filter. That's literally what I'm saying. I haven't read it so I'm relying on other people who called you town and deciding to worry about you later.

It just seems like your clearly not trying to figure out the game to me. How have you missed several big posts. You haven't read at all? Your just filter diving?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
March 13 2024 13:23 GMT
#7563
On March 13 2024 22:17 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:15 Palmar wrote:
I was perfectly fine with the little interaction between her and Vivax where they were worrying about axe murderers. They seemed to agree they're safe.

Keep thinking that...

What are you saying?

Are you trolling me at this point?
Computer says mafia
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:24 GMT
#7564
On March 13 2024 22:13 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:07 Koshi wrote:
Palmar. After previous game in which dmb fooled you.
Why is this game dmb town?

It's a risk again.

Essentially I am now assuming that dmb feels the need to "take a stance" as mafia. Last game her stance was an incredibly stupid tunnel on me, but at least it was a stance.

My feeling this game is that her mood has been lighter, and she has been much more comfortable just sorta existing in the thread without the need to spam an opinion.

This is however, based on having not filter dived her for a long time.

The one weird thing she did was accusing me of lying about time. But that was hilarious anyway.

I filter dived her and looks like she was coached to do exactly that but now nothing is left. She flip flops on the most basic things.
Like for example Vivax. Town!dmb would have pushed her idea of Vivax in this thread d1/n1/d2. But this dmb just flip flops.
I had a good night of sleep.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
March 13 2024 13:26 GMT
#7565
On March 13 2024 22:19 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:16 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:14 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:11 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:04 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:00 Palmar wrote:
By the way I feel like I've noticed you getting hung on weird stuff that is completely expected several times this game iamp.

The only reason I'm givivng you a tiny town read is that I think I'm sheeping marv.

? You have played with me before why do you have to sheep marv

See this is the kinda shit that bothers me. Why wouldn't I sheep marv? He's a really, really good town player that I respect. What on earth is weird about that?

I'll do a highlight of other instances of you being weird:

On March 12 2024 07:07 Palmar wrote:
On March 12 2024 07:04 iamperfection wrote:
On March 12 2024 07:02 Palmar wrote:
On March 12 2024 06:59 Jealous wrote:
Feels like Koshi went into that filter with the outcome already in mind.


Oh he absolutely did, not sure that says anything though

How can it not say anything? I don't get why you openly reject what he is saying. It looks like your not trying to figure out his or cc alignment. Which of course is super scummy.

Why the shade on this?

I have plenty of explanations for my own reasons behind leaning slight town on koshi and cc as a pretty wild-cardy null at the moment.

I don't think it says anything about Koshi that he wrote a case to support his conclusion, he's been plenty vocal that he thinks cc is town. It would actually be surprising if he didn't write that towncase with the outcome already established....

Actually almost all cases are written with the outcome already in mind I think, do you disagree?


For some reason iamp doesn't know why people write cases? Cases are there to convince other people of your existing conclusions... usually.

On March 12 2024 01:08 Palmar wrote:
On March 12 2024 01:00 iamperfection wrote:
You are a bufoon. I literally lead the wagon on trfel.

I said it's just a feeling that I can't back up.

I had a similar feeling about Trfel last game, and when I finally bothered reading him I came away thinking lock town. That's a big part of how we won that game.

You're not up for lynch today, so it doesn't really matter to me.


Iamp gets mad and claims to have lead the wagon on day 1? I don't remember it that way, but I didn't care much about the trfel wagon. Why do you care?

On March 07 2024 01:09 Palmar wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:04 iamperfection wrote:
If you both think each other is mafia why is there all this mucking up the thread with each other.

Quit bitching, the upper class is having a meeting.


Iamp complains about me and rayn arguing with each other in the process of figuring out each other's alignment? Why not just let us hash it out?

On March 07 2024 01:14 Palmar wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:13 iamperfection wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:12 Palmar wrote:
On March 07 2024 01:12 iamperfection wrote:
On March 06 2024 08:55 Palmar wrote:
I'm finalizing here.

I like a bunch of mafia in:

rayn
jat
rels
mz
tts

then there's gonna be some mafia in the people who should be killed on policy

vivax
trfel
hapa


then there's the people that need constant monitoring and need to improve

iamp
marv
jealous
copcake
slam
ve

and finally we have the people I have somewhere from mild to good reasons to think are town

sandro
oats
dp
dmb
jls
koshi

None of the lists are in any particular order

I don't really think Trfel will flip mafia. It's just a "I believe in people" read that he wouldn't fuck off like that as mafia with the whole "If I get lynched I get lynched" thing. But it's an objectively good lynch so I'm not going to fight it all that hard. Leaving my vote on jat. I've been burned before by placing too much faith in people not doing crazy things as mafia so it's whatever.

Like looking at this post you have trfel as a policy lynch but in the bottom it isn't.


yeah, makes perfect sense right?

No lol. Looks like your just making up shit to me.

Did you notice that I also called Vivax town!

How cool is that?


Iamp for some reason doesn't know what a policy lynch is?

It's all strange and I don't really like it. Not even sure it makes him mafia, just annoying to deal with. I would need to dive into that filter of endless oneliners to actually reach a harder conclusion but it's whatever.

It's not endless one liners. I am clearly town you not seeing that on your own makes me think your mafia because your clearly not reading my posts then. I have given my thoughts on every player in the game several times.


He said replying with a oneliner.

Hey I know I'm almost (but not quite) as bad as treating forum mafia as an IM tool.

And I do NOT deny not having read your filter. That's literally what I'm saying. I haven't read it so I'm relying on other people who called you town and deciding to worry about you later.

It just seems like your clearly not trying to figure out the game to me. How have you missed several big posts. You haven't read at all? Your just filter diving?


I mostly read what's in the thread when I'm there, coupled with trying to read a few pages back. I usually start posting immediately kinda just to let people know I'm available.

Then I go read filters, and go revisit old reads I remember and try to see if they're still valid. Both mine and from dead townies.

I mean, why does this matter? It was clear back on day 2 when I had no idea about JSL/DP claiming gunsmith/gun well after it had happened in the thread.

I mean if you think I'm mafia for not reading every post in the thread before I start posting, just say that. But the other part is wrong, I am actively trying to figure out what alignment people are.

Computer says mafia
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
March 13 2024 13:27 GMT
#7566
On March 13 2024 22:23 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:17 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:15 Palmar wrote:
I was perfectly fine with the little interaction between her and Vivax where they were worrying about axe murderers. They seemed to agree they're safe.

Keep thinking that...

What are you saying?

Are you trolling me at this point?

Oh I see it was a joke.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
March 13 2024 13:35 GMT
#7567
On March 13 2024 22:02 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:00 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 21:57 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 21:55 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 00:06 Koshi wrote:
Think I am ok with voting Palmar tomorrow. I dont know if he is mafia but the people I mafia read are town and my townreads mafia. So this is a fresh breath of air.

On March 13 2024 07:29 Koshi wrote:
I will be voting Palmar tomorrow. Day after that JAT.
I dont care about much more and will probably slow down posting.

Tomorrow I will read Rels.

I think that should be enough.

On March 13 2024 20:14 Koshi wrote:
I am so certain of both my reads and my cc townread that I would love to get all votes on CC on me.

Like if you think CC is mafia, or I am mafia with her, can you please vote me?

Because my flip will change this thread sentiment towards Palmar/JAT/DMB.

On March 13 2024 01:23 Koshi wrote:
I think a Palmar and Koshi wagon is fair tomorrow. In honor of VE.


This is just standard Koshi blustering, why do you think it's relevant?

Him soft martyring has to say something. He also goes from I don't know if he is mafia to being like super confident how do you not see that and it doesn't stick out?

Because koshi does this kind of shit every game.

Did you read that part of my mental image of him is the "abrasive overconfident" way he does things? This is EXACTLY that.

It's just his way of saying he wants to lynch me.

Do you agree with this koshi?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:39 GMT
#7568
On March 13 2024 22:35 iamperfection wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:02 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:00 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 21:57 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 21:55 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 00:06 Koshi wrote:
Think I am ok with voting Palmar tomorrow. I dont know if he is mafia but the people I mafia read are town and my townreads mafia. So this is a fresh breath of air.

On March 13 2024 07:29 Koshi wrote:
I will be voting Palmar tomorrow. Day after that JAT.
I dont care about much more and will probably slow down posting.

Tomorrow I will read Rels.

I think that should be enough.

On March 13 2024 20:14 Koshi wrote:
I am so certain of both my reads and my cc townread that I would love to get all votes on CC on me.

Like if you think CC is mafia, or I am mafia with her, can you please vote me?

Because my flip will change this thread sentiment towards Palmar/JAT/DMB.

On March 13 2024 01:23 Koshi wrote:
I think a Palmar and Koshi wagon is fair tomorrow. In honor of VE.


This is just standard Koshi blustering, why do you think it's relevant?

Him soft martyring has to say something. He also goes from I don't know if he is mafia to being like super confident how do you not see that and it doesn't stick out?

Because koshi does this kind of shit every game.

Did you read that part of my mental image of him is the "abrasive overconfident" way he does things? This is EXACTLY that.

It's just his way of saying he wants to lynch me.

Do you agree with this koshi?

Yes. But do you see?
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:41 GMT
#7569
What did Palmar do in his visit?
What questions did he answer?
More importantly, which did he ignore?
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:41 GMT
#7570
Kill kill kill
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:42 GMT
#7571
Force Palmar to give his read on jat/dmb.
Kill Palmar
?
Profit
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:43 GMT
#7572
You can ask him more reads. But the killing Palmar part is important.
I had a good night of sleep.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
March 13 2024 13:43 GMT
#7573
On March 13 2024 22:39 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 22:35 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:02 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 22:00 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 21:57 Palmar wrote:
On March 13 2024 21:55 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 00:06 Koshi wrote:
Think I am ok with voting Palmar tomorrow. I dont know if he is mafia but the people I mafia read are town and my townreads mafia. So this is a fresh breath of air.

On March 13 2024 07:29 Koshi wrote:
I will be voting Palmar tomorrow. Day after that JAT.
I dont care about much more and will probably slow down posting.

Tomorrow I will read Rels.

I think that should be enough.

On March 13 2024 20:14 Koshi wrote:
I am so certain of both my reads and my cc townread that I would love to get all votes on CC on me.

Like if you think CC is mafia, or I am mafia with her, can you please vote me?

Because my flip will change this thread sentiment towards Palmar/JAT/DMB.

On March 13 2024 01:23 Koshi wrote:
I think a Palmar and Koshi wagon is fair tomorrow. In honor of VE.


This is just standard Koshi blustering, why do you think it's relevant?

Him soft martyring has to say something. He also goes from I don't know if he is mafia to being like super confident how do you not see that and it doesn't stick out?

Because koshi does this kind of shit every game.

Did you read that part of my mental image of him is the "abrasive overconfident" way he does things? This is EXACTLY that.

It's just his way of saying he wants to lynch me.

Do you agree with this koshi?

Yes. But do you see?

See what?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
March 13 2024 13:43 GMT
#7574
Oh
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:52 GMT
#7575
On March 13 2024 21:41 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 21:21 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 21:20 Palmar wrote:
Think it's a little towny of mz to call me mafia.


What's your view of koshi.

It's very complicated. And I want to preface by saying I kind want to go read his filter. This is all written from memory and subject to change.

I'll talk through some of it.

First of all, I have a mental expectation of Koshi that may or may not be wrong. We all build these models of players we've played with repeatedly and then try to compare them to our mental model.

Here are the things that really fit my model of what Koshi is like:

- He makes a lot of sense when thinking objectively about the game and how it should be played. I particularly noted that he was one of the few people I completely agreed with how to deal with Vivax' claim on day 1. It annoyed me that the mason triangle disagreed with the view that Koshi and I had.

- He makes a lot of overconfident reads and does it in an abrasive manner. He is active in the thread and seems to be anticipating interactions, like today he is actively waiting for me to come back.

Here are the things that don't fit with my model:

- He was way too quick to dismiss his own scumread on me. Part of the model we build about people is how they interact with ourselves. In my model Koshi basically calls me mafia every game regardless of alignment and wants me dead so bad all the time. It's almost unfair to assume he should be wrong about me. This point is slightly important because I have objectively not played all that well this game, especially if jat not mafia.

I have listened too much to Koshi this game. I felt like he had thread presence where I lacked it so I've kinda deferred to him. This was especially noticeable on day 1 where I kinda dropped my Oats thing because of his towncase and day 2 where despite writing with every post I made that we needed to lynch Oats, I let my annoyance of VE and Oats legendary defense convinvce me to just go fuck it and vote VE. That was a stupid decision.

So what about the things he says?

I honestly don't know. Koshi is really good at making sense as mafia, and because of the way he approaches the game it's difficult to catch him on the content. Like there is a case to be made that his Oats towncase could make him lock town, or we should lynch him for it as mafia.

He has, at times, been advocating for keeping morale up in the thread, which is a townie thing to do.

He made another towncase, this time on CC. I am not nearly as convinced that CC is town as Koshi, in fact I think she is one of the more likely people to flip mafia, mostly because I start liking other people more.

I don't think Koshi can be answered today, and I don't think he needs to be answered today. My opinion is that we should be exclusively looking at the people that are most likely to flip mafia, and despite some concern, I don't think Koshi is there.

Oh btw, he did at some point... maybe even twice.... traitor-bait.

I am not sure if I have to answer to this.
Before1) I sheeped marv on Palmar d1 and marv off Palmar d1.
1) I was wrong on Oats.
2) I stand by the VE lynch
3)I am not good at being mafia. Pretty sure anybody who played a game with me last year should know. When I was mafia once I sucked, and in my town games I whined about being bad as mafia. So dont know why Palmar is calling mybmafia game good. (I do know, it is because he needs to be able to cast doubt on me later)
4) Yes I baited traitor a bunch of times. If you believe I was recruited, you can lynch me. Otherwise, dafuq is this point..
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:54 GMT
#7576
So many words to call me town and at least 2 phrases to put some doubt on me. Good good.

I wonder what JAT will fabricate when he comes by.
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:55 GMT
#7577
I want to point out Palmar/JAT/DMB once more and I hope you guys push these guys for reads on each other.

So that if we lynch into one of us. We can clear this clusterfuck up if one flips town.
I had a good night of sleep.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
March 13 2024 13:57 GMT
#7578
Anyone else around that's not palmar or koshi?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
March 13 2024 13:57 GMT
#7579
MZ and Jealous are town.
Rels is fallen town hero that needs ressurection.
CC is town but should be avoided at all costs. DO NOT MAKE EYE CONTACT AT ANY TIME.

But those are fair game to look into a tiny bit.
I had a good night of sleep.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22427 Posts
March 13 2024 14:18 GMT
#7580
On March 13 2024 19:46 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2024 12:41 Vivax wrote:
On March 13 2024 12:39 iamperfection wrote:
On March 13 2024 12:38 Vivax wrote:
On March 13 2024 12:36 iamperfection wrote:
Vivax the mafia had two choices. It was Jacob or dp. They choose Jacob. Trying to guess their reasons is going to be real hard. My guess They choose Jacob to set up palmar or to remove an anti palmar townie.


He was claimed blue he was always going to die first.
No one is townier than that.

OK so what's your point then


Tell me why it's crazy to think Jealous is mafia in isolation?

Vivax.
We havent talked in a while.

Why do you think it cant be Palmar and JAT? They thread policed since marv passed and I think after the VE kill they should have done more.
But I only felt weird hostility from JAT when I started looking into Palmar and mentioned him on the side.
Then JAT came with the lazy marv defense for Palmar.

I think mafia got lazy and complacent during the VE and copcake lynch and JAT showed it there. He defended Palmar too arrogantly.

Anyway. What is your opinion on the 2?


I agree that they both can be mafia. But pointing out what I did about Jealous feels like my mission at this point.

Guy is playing like textbook mafia in all aspects. He tries to derail my accusations towards him into personal feuds with his memes or tries to gaslight me.

He posts huge walls and claims to be unsure then defaults to a single vote almost every day and doesn't seem to change his mind much, just pretends to.

JAT had two redeeming posts in my opinion and it's when he reacted to when I considered the possibility of you being traitor over copcake and that your posting is off this game.
I'm assuming that he potentially delights in being called mafia as town to prove a point in his head and poses as lynchable as opposed to a scenario where he is just mafia.

I don't see why I have to play for a triple lynch here and explain to you what makes Palmar and JAT mafia either way as long as you don't consider all the points raised about Jealous. It waters down the arguments against a single mafia if I have to explain why three people at once have to be or not.
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