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On December 19 2023 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have a hard time understanding D2 which should actually tell a lot about the game, maybe the most in terms of what actual information we do have. Apparently everyone sees, or claim to see this entirely the other way i do see it.
marv in your opinion, whose votes were they key votes in changing the lynch from sandroba to Chezinu?
Rayn you are hinging on this Chezinu vote thing way too much and it doesn't look good to me.
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On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it?
Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar.
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On December 19 2023 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 01:52 marvellosity wrote:
Rayn - obviously your Chez vote cannot be held against you. But if I’m extending possible suspicion to people on the Chez wagon in good time (eg Trfel) then I can hardly say it looks good for you either.
I trust you see what I mean here Well for some reason most of the game is holding it against me, while i would never put my vote there in case i am mafia (even if i was mafia with sandroba). I have to say though i really didn't have that much of preference there, so i kinda see in that sense. Sure i thought Chezinu is mafia, but witouth further investigation at the time i put my vote there because HF who i thought is mafia was kinda white knighting Chezinu while saying the complete opposite. I wanted to see what happens, then Koshi started to shit on me on the vote, same with HF. I also had reservations with Koshi, it didn't help he was like 1000000% against my vote, but when you voted (when it should make even less sense for him), he just started being a good sheepyboi. So yeah, i thought fuck it, this has to be the correct play. I guess you could say i made the right decision based on wrong information lol 
Rayn if you are mafia you are too good, I 100% buy this explanation
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On December 19 2023 02:04 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. Can you elaborate?
He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel
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On December 19 2023 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 23:36 sandroba wrote:
Rayn only shows up when he is being talked about to try to diffuse suspicion off of him. He doesn't pursue his scum reads, and is very tame not to antagonize players in the thread too much, all of which are mafia-favored behaviors.
You do realise this is absolute horse shit? Go read any of my mafia games i have ever played.
It's a good heuristic that mafia tries to avoid conflict, but I buy that you believe (maybe correctly) that it doesn't apply in your case. Haven't played with you too many games, only from memory remember you being more aggro in general
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On December 19 2023 02:15 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:11 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 02:04 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
Just one other thing on Trfel.
Why is he the only other player than me not to have some sort of mafia read on Palmar yesterday?
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. Can you elaborate? He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel See this is the one I glanced at quickly https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?user=TrfelAnd this scumgame Trfel had more pages of filter than any of the towngames I looked at quickly
Did you read this game? Was he town siding and being reasonable in ther?
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I'm reading through it and the student game he was scum it looks like Trfel has much more direction and is pushing the mafia agenda without waffling. He is defendig Breshe his scum partner and not town siding at all. Don't agree that it looks similar to this game
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On December 19 2023 02:19 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:17 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 02:15 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:11 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 02:04 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 02:00 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:55 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:52 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 01:44 sandroba wrote:
[quote]
He was town reading Palmar, he said the only reason he might even consider Palmar is mafia is due to trouble finding the other scum. He was town reading rayn at that point, only real scum read was dmb But why when no one else was? I’m a special (possibly dumb fool) case. Trfel isn’t. So ??? Well if we assume Palmar is town, Trfel is just good? Same as Slam. I guess we can with ego and say Trfel and Slam can't be this good? Seems like a shitty thing to do Maybe yes. But it’s not like TMI is not a thing, right? I am not saying they can’t be good, or even if they are both town (or mafia for that matter lol) they haven’t completely outplayed me this game, they probably have as either alignment tbh. Doesn’t mean it’s not interesting that sand, HF, Koshi think Palmar is mafia but Trfel, slam don’t, does it? Slam was on Palmar. Sure, it's interesting how level headed Trfel has been. The high ego play is to think I was right on Trfel all along, but I just looked at the game where he was scum with chez and it's not very similar. Can you elaborate? He had very few posts on that game, got easily lynched d1. https://tl.net/forum/mafia/560300-holy-guardians-cpt-3?user=Trfel See this is the one I glanced at quickly https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?user=TrfelAnd this scumgame Trfel had more pages of filter than any of the towngames I looked at quickly Did you read this game? Was he town siding and being reasonable in ther? Haven’t spent enough time to work out what townsiding is in that game lol. Doesn’t this post look good though? https://tl.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=65#1281
Looks good, but compared to his posts here it's not similar. Over there you can see it's very objective and driven, trying to look townie. The posts here are very waffly with caveats and thought process seems genuine.
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On December 19 2023 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm reading through it and the student game he was scum it looks like Trfel has much more direction and is pushing the mafia agenda without waffling. He is defendig Breshe his scum partner and not town siding at all. Don't agree that it looks similar to this game So if Trfel is mafia with Palmar it's nothing similar at all?
Sure, I'll take another look at Trfel if Palmar is mafia. The Chezinu push though is out of character based on the other game which he defended his scum buddies.
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On December 19 2023 02:34 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 02:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm reading through it and the student game he was scum it looks like Trfel has much more direction and is pushing the mafia agenda without waffling. He is defendig Breshe his scum partner and not town siding at all. Don't agree that it looks similar to this game I think you’re being too specific with he townsiding stuff. I think it’s clear Trfel can make impressive, thought out posts as mafia. Of course you can easily be right here sand. I’m not even calling Trfel mafia here (although it seems to be all I’m talking about!). We just have to be bloody sure that we haven’t written him off as town when it’s not 100% I’ll put it another way - I don’t think you, or Koshi, or Palmar can play the way you’ve played this game as mafia. I do think Trfel could play this way as mafia.
Argh, I hate that you clump Palmar together here, I don't think Palmar has done anywhere near what I would expect him to do as town.
I don't like the reads of "can be mafia", even if Trfel could be convincing as mafia this game he is using his powers for good, which makes more sense if he is town. If Palmar is town, to me it becomes even more unreasonable Trfel is mafia. So I'm always lynching Palmar first here.
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Where is your head at right now rayn?
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On December 19 2023 04:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
First of all, in contrary to marv i don't like sandroba a bit.
I don't think he was trying to get a lynch on DMB on D3 and after i voted for HF (which should be quite obvious deduction on where i am putting my vote based on earlier interactions), i don't think he tried to make the lynch go another way. I don't like he didn't try to do anything on Trfel's vote after Trfel voted HF after me. But when the phase changed and HF flipped town everyone is fucking shit and the giving shit starts to happen. Except that it doesn't happen towards Trfel. Why doesn't Trfel's vote on HF matter, it's the worst vote in sandrobas mind where HF is town and other candidates (Palmar/DMB) are mafia?
And again, none of this happened during the DAY PHASE, it only started happening IMMEDIATELY after the day ended and HF flipped. If he has reservations about HF's alignment, that's fine, but the reaction towards a town lynch should not be like that in the case. If he does not have reservations (that's also fine), those things should be done before flip, and he should have been more keen to actually try to lynch someone else. Like really try,. not just look like it after the lynch.
I don't think you read the game at all. While I was here before the eod I told people 10x or so that HF being mafia was stupid and didn't make any sense, that I wasn't lynching HF and I looked into everything everyone brought up in regards to HF being scum including past games here and on another website. I did get cold feet on palmar due to blue theory and dmb I thought could be mafia and didn't have any better ideas
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On December 19 2023 05:29 Palmar wrote:
Sandroba not getting into his thick head that literally everything in that qt was trolling is at this point getting suspicious
Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it through
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On December 19 2023 05:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
which of that happened after i voted? or after trfel voted?
i am not talking about stuff before that.
I don't get it, why is this relevant? I only posted while I was online and then again after I came online again after eod
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On December 19 2023 05:41 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 05:40 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 05:29 Palmar wrote:
Sandroba not getting into his thick head that literally everything in that qt was trolling is at this point getting suspicious Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it through But I know it’s true and I wasn’t even there…
Are you saying Palmar can't troll as mafia?
If Palmar is town does he ever stop trolling and starts talking seriously?
Even after the Chez flip, I reached out a couple of times and he never talked to me then, even though he posted in the thread in that window. Does that make any sense as town?
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On December 19 2023 05:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 05:46 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 05:41 marvellosity wrote:On December 19 2023 05:40 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 05:29 Palmar wrote:
Sandroba not getting into his thick head that literally everything in that qt was trolling is at this point getting suspicious Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it through But I know it’s true and I wasn’t even there… Are you saying Palmar can't troll as mafia? If Palmar is town does he ever stop trolling and starts talking seriously? Even after the Chez flip, I reached out a couple of times and he never talked to me then, even though he posted in the thread in that window. Does that make any sense as town? Of course Palmar can, and does, troll as mafia. And I’m not saying that him trolling you in the qt is town. I’m saying it’s not mafia indicative. You must know him well enough to know he enjoys trolling his scumreads?
I don't actually, I've seen him trolling a bit as both alignments, but not in particular trolling his scum reads.
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On December 19 2023 05:46 marvellosity wrote:
Mafia don’t tend to get more and more involved as the game goes on, it’s hard to keep up that level of genuine interest in the game.
Right, and how is Palmar looking again?
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On December 19 2023 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Trfel's vote of HF is suspicious for me, i can see how he comes to that conclusion but like he doesn't want to come to that conclusion and everything before and after that sounds like he should be voting for DMB and trying to make people vote for DMB. Show nested quote +On December 18 2023 12:34 Trfel wrote:
]I wanted to lynch die_meatbaby but was unable to do so. Tried to make the best of bad options and failed. not sure if i believe this and i am not sure why sandroba believes this.
I can possibly buy it being scummy if Palmar is scum, but if only Trfel is scum why doesn't he leave his vote on DMB? Why does he try to make an educated guess here on who is more likely mafia between the options available?
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On December 19 2023 05:52 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 05:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 19 2023 05:46 marvellosity wrote:
Mafia don’t tend to get more and more involved as the game goes on, it’s hard to keep up that level of genuine interest in the game. How does this compute with let's say Palmar? It doesn’t. It’s my read on sand. You guys need to stop trying to logic my read on Palmar with anyone or anything else. I have genuinely been through (parts of!) Palmar’s filter with an open mind, but I keep ending at the same conclusion. And I’ve said this a million times. Palmar could be making the biggest fool of me, in which case I will learn a hard but valuable lesson this game. But I can’t get off the townread.
It's hard to accept that, because maybe Palmar did high-effort things to try to get a townread d1 and then fucked off and now he is coasting on that forever. He even used "Do you trust marv's read on my behavior over yours?" yesterday
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On December 19 2023 06:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2023 06:06 sandroba wrote:On December 19 2023 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Trfel's vote of HF is suspicious for me, i can see how he comes to that conclusion but like he doesn't want to come to that conclusion and everything before and after that sounds like he should be voting for DMB and trying to make people vote for DMB. On December 18 2023 12:34 Trfel wrote:
]I wanted to lynch die_meatbaby but was unable to do so. Tried to make the best of bad options and failed. not sure if i believe this and i am not sure why sandroba believes this. I can possibly buy it being scummy if Palmar is scum, but if only Trfel is scum why doesn't he leave his vote on DMB? Why does he try to make an educated guess here on who is more likely mafia between the options available? Because he is not contributing to the lynch, and that's even worse. I mean if he doesn't make a choice between Palmar/HF, how does that look on him? Do you think he made the choice he should have?
I think he looks worse from swapping onto the townie who is about to get lynched than to leaving his vote on dmb. Unless palmar is mafia, which you could argue he is doing to save palmar
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EPT
