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On phone and in bed, so not going to quote you Jockmcplop, hope that's okay.
I don't care about Vivax townreading me because I don't care too much about townreads in general (especially at this stage in the game) and I thought I knew why he was townreading me (since he later explained why, it turns out I was only partially correct, ah well).
I don't really know how to respond to the rest of your post so let me know if I missed something. But it seems that a key point is my "case's" first point on raynpelikoneet. It's not that he has an implied read that is suspicious, it's that the implied/joke read changes. Townies usually approach mafia from two perspectives: treat everyone as town until there is reason to suspect otherwise, or treat everyone as suspicious until they show otherwise. Raynpelikoneet's posts don't fit in either mindset.
That said, if I'm being honest, it's not a strong point at all and we all know this. I'm saying it's the most suspicious thing at that point in the game. Why'd I bring it up then, so people like you have something to talk about! I'd say it worked perfectly 
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On April 05 2020 15:12 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 15:05 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 14:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:On April 05 2020 13:55 Jockmcplop wrote:Wow does everyone see something off with rayn? I don't see it. On April 05 2020 13:39 Trfel wrote:On April 05 2020 13:29 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 13:24 Trfel wrote:On April 05 2020 12:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 10:22 Trfel wrote:So I think the most suspicious person so far is raynpelikoneet. Implies that I am mafia one post, implies that I am town later + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +On April 05 2020 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Is that saying you dont belong to the family?  On April 05 2020 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Maybe he fell asleep again? It's also boring to tak with townies only so maybe we wait for the bloody cobbler to arrive. Why did raynpelikoneet's view change? Even if he's just joking around, if he's town, I expect him to have some perception of my alignment; whatever it is, it can't really fit into both of these statements. INITIATE DISLIKE PILE. Care to explain why? @Vivax, you too? It looks like you are being very sensitive to rayn's opinion of your alignment, and that oversensitivity has caused you to read something NAI (rayn's early prodding) as being suspicious. Why does that make me more likely mafia? I think all players, regardless of alignment, are more sensitive to people's opinions of them. Overdefensiveness and coming into the game immediately being worried about people's read on you is +mafia for sure. I don't think all players play like that at all. A big example of this is the way you assume I think you are mafia when before this post I had not said anything of the sort, just that I disliked your previous post (I mostly disliked the logic of it until this response you just made). So the two assumptions you had made were: 1: I think you are mafia 2: The fact that you think that I think you are mafia, and Vivax's town read on you, are the most important things to you in the thread (ie you didn't respond to or quote anything else) Both of these assumptions show a mindset that you are coming into the game with, and that mindset is something that I have often seen with scum players. Trfel from his last game seems new and curious. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't watching the last game. He's very different already? Depends on what your definition of different is. He was mafia last game hah. It’s hard to know, but he does seem similar. I’ll give him a second look. Wait a second, I'm confused. By "new and curious," (see nested quote) are you characterizing my play this game, or are you characterizing my play last game/overall?
Side note, I really want to be suspicious of Jockmcplop, his wording and logic just feel so off, but I can't put my finger on it or articulate why  So I'll let it drop. I reserve the right to be suspicious of him later though 
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@BloodyC0bbler, care to explain why you are suspicious of Hapahauli? I don't see it.
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@BloodyC0bbler, fair enough, thanks. Interesting take, I admit I didn't see it that way, it makes sense though.
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I'm here, going to reread the thread. Let me know if anyone wants to discuss anything, especially as we have a deadline in just 12 hours 18 minutes...
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On April 06 2020 14:18 Chezinu wrote:
MOM!!!
What is up with the pool?!?! I was going to shoot a movie today! Hi Chez
If you had to throw someone in the pool in a little less than 12 hours, do you have anyone you would choose?
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On April 06 2020 14:20 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 14:18 Trfel wrote:On April 06 2020 14:18 Chezinu wrote:
MOM!!!
What is up with the pool?!?! I was going to shoot a movie today! Hi Chez If you had to throw someone in the pool in a little less than 12 hours, do you have anyone you would choose? You know the pool is green right now... oh.. I guess you didn't watch my cooking show. If you did, you would know. My apologies, I've been pretty busy lately, I have not yet watched the video
I surrender to the intellectual superiority of the Chez.
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Notes
+ Show Spoiler +ShoCkeyySeems very interested in how towny he looks. Feels suspicious, but maybe this is just how he plays. Check meta as town to confirm or deny this. Note: checked meta from last game, didn't see any similar statements but I'm still not very confident in this reason to suspect ShoCkeyy. Interested to see where he goes from here. BloodyC0bblerWhy does he say I am overly defensive here? I only tried to understand Jockmcplop's read, not disagree. However Jockmcplop also thought this way, so perhaps it's more up to interpretation than I thought. JockmcplopSomething still feels wrong about our conversation yesterday but it's probably just me making something out of nothing. I can't confidently say why it was off, and if Jockmcplop is mafia, there should be better reasons why. On April 05 2020 21:15 Jockmcplop wrote:
So far my town reads are vivax and bloody and I also wouldn't lynch rayn, or probably chez.
Vivax I already explained, he just has that spark when he's trying to solve, and you can see it here. This is a meta read though so its always a chance that this is the game where scum Vivax changes his meta. He's probably town though.
Bloody keeps saying things that I'm thinking and although that's fakeable so early in the game, I find it far more likely that he sees the game similarly to me because he's town.
I wouldn't lynch rayn here because he *seems* townie, but historically I can't read rayn for shit so I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt really. I'll filter him in a minute and see if anything jumps out. I like the long post alot.
Chez I wouldn't lynch also because I can't read him. He's very entertaining though so best keep him alive.
Everyone else can die until we find scum, probably in the following order, scummiest first:
haphauli - Not really much to say other than I agree with bloody and rayn but he needs to come and be town or he gets lynched.
Rels Nothing.
Shockeyy Need to see more from shockeyy but he seems a bit too laid back if you know what i mean. Almost like he can't be bothered. Said he wants to have more interactions with other people so I want to see what happens if he does.
Trfel I have explained. He responded okay to pressure but I still think his case on rayn was poor and he pulled out the 'trying to get people talking' line that mafia loves. I'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him though because I've done that before when he was town.
So yeah my two biggest scumreads have barely posted. I guess that shows where I am in this game at the moment.
Some things feel off to me about this post. First, he says he's not willing to lynch Chezinu because he can't read him, but he is willing to lynch Rels, who has made zero posts. I'd understand this more if he said that the reason was that Chezinu was fun, but he said that the reason was that he couldn't read him. It's a minor detail but it makes me a bit suspicious. I also don't like him suddenly agreeing with the Hapahauli read, he didn't mention it at all earlier and then suddenly agrees after raynpelikoneet makes a big post.
Q/AOn April 05 2020 17:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 15:07 Trfel wrote:
Townies usually approach mafia from two perspectives: treat everyone as town until there is reason to suspect otherwise, or treat everyone as suspicious until they show otherwise. So how do i approach the game normally? Honestly I've no idea.
On April 05 2020 17:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have just spent time trying to figure out what Shockeyys posting means and i don't really see that. Sure you can be right or then not, but i can't tell if he is mafia or not. I think cobbler is right on Hapa though, i thought about the same thing instantly when i saw Hapa's two first posts. @raynpelikoneet and/or BloodyC0bbler: Can you please help me understand why you are scumreading Hapahauli? You said that it feels like he was just posting to post and wasn't going anywhere with his questions. I don't disagree, however you made these statements when Hapahauli's last post was on the bottom of page 4, giving him only two and a half pages of content to work with. At that time, we were talking about flavor and voting randomly. I just don't get what you expect from Hapahauli this early into the game.
@Jockmcplop: What was it in particular that made you suspicious of Hapahauli?
@ShoCkeyy: I assume you'll see this while you are catching up on the thread, but if not, just a reminder:On April 05 2020 15:16 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 15:12 ShoCkeyy wrote:On April 05 2020 15:05 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 14:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:On April 05 2020 13:55 Jockmcplop wrote:Wow does everyone see something off with rayn? I don't see it. On April 05 2020 13:39 Trfel wrote:On April 05 2020 13:29 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 13:24 Trfel wrote:On April 05 2020 12:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 10:22 Trfel wrote:So I think the most suspicious person so far is raynpelikoneet. Implies that I am mafia one post, implies that I am town later + Show Spoiler [Analysis] +On April 05 2020 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Is that saying you dont belong to the family? On April 05 2020 03:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Maybe he fell asleep again? It's also boring to tak with townies only so maybe we wait for the bloody cobbler to arrive. Why did raynpelikoneet's view change? Even if he's just joking around, if he's town, I expect him to have some perception of my alignment; whatever it is, it can't really fit into both of these statements. INITIATE DISLIKE PILE. Care to explain why? @Vivax, you too? It looks like you are being very sensitive to rayn's opinion of your alignment, and that oversensitivity has caused you to read something NAI (rayn's early prodding) as being suspicious. Why does that make me more likely mafia? I think all players, regardless of alignment, are more sensitive to people's opinions of them. Overdefensiveness and coming into the game immediately being worried about people's read on you is +mafia for sure. I don't think all players play like that at all. A big example of this is the way you assume I think you are mafia when before this post I had not said anything of the sort, just that I disliked your previous post (I mostly disliked the logic of it until this response you just made). So the two assumptions you had made were: 1: I think you are mafia 2: The fact that you think that I think you are mafia, and Vivax's town read on you, are the most important things to you in the thread (ie you didn't respond to or quote anything else) Both of these assumptions show a mindset that you are coming into the game with, and that mindset is something that I have often seen with scum players. Trfel from his last game seems new and curious. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't watching the last game. He's very different already? Depends on what your definition of different is. He was mafia last game hah. It’s hard to know, but he does seem similar. I’ll give him a second look. Wait a second, I'm confused. By "new and curious," (see nested quote) are you characterizing my play this game, or are you characterizing my play last game/overall?
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Voting to make sure I don't forget. Will try to be back to catch up for the deadline but no guarantees, I'm horrid at waking up in the morning
Problem is, I don't know who to vote for It honestly feels like there is just not enough information for me to confidently scumread anyone. Jockmcplop is my best guess, though we may have to settle for a policy lynch. Gosh, I don't know
##vote Jockmcplop
May be around for a bit but likely going to sleep soon.
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Actually though, what if it is Chezinu?
When he's town I'm used to him posting some relevant information/reads. Obviously in his own Chezinu way, but they are there. This game he is voting for (iirc) Jockmcplop, but I couldn't understand why, does anyone know why?
Chezinu this game just feels very different from previous games where he's been town. Still awesome and funny, but different. I'll try and read a previous Chezinu mafia game or two.
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The most recent Chezinu mafia game I could find was six years old. And in that game he was more focused on providing reads, not less. So there goes that idea.
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You didn't answer my question :'(
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I have no freaking clue I could see you guys being right and Hapahauli being mafia, I could even more easily see Jockmcplop being town, but really it would just be a trust vote because I don't fully understand it Gonna try and sleep and worry about it in the morning.
Raynpelikoneet, would you mind explaining why Hapahauli's scumread on BloodyC0bbler is so bad?
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On April 06 2020 19:22 Jockmcplop wrote:Sorry I missed it. Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers. Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target. I still want to see more from shockeyy though. Thanks for answering, I appreciate it.
I dunno if you looked in my "Notes" spoiler, but what I'm getting at is: you were present in the thread when BloodyC0bbler posted about Hapahauli. You were there for his early posts and didn't seem to find them interesting yourself. But it was only after raynpelikoneet posted about Hapahauli that you said you scumread him. If you agreed with BloodyC0bbler's case, why didn't you say so at the time?
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing?
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On April 06 2020 19:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:On April 06 2020 19:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:12 Trfel wrote:
You didn't answer my question :'( Sorry I missed it. Hapahauli's entrance was bad. I agreed with bloody's case on him basically. He seemed like he was just asking random questions to be involved without actually caring about the answers. Now I scumread him more because of the way he came back and instantly jumped on the back of what rayn was saying about me, which looks like a self-preservation move, using thread sentiment to feign aggression against the obvious target. I still want to see more from shockeyy though. Thanks for answering, I appreciate it. I dunno if you looked in my "Notes" spoiler, but what I'm getting at is: you were present in the thread when BloodyC0bbler posted about Hapahauli. You were there for his early posts and didn't seem to find them interesting yourself. But it was only after raynpelikoneet posted about Hapahauli that you said you scumread him. If you agreed with BloodyC0bbler's case, why didn't you say so at the time? To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? There's nothing really to say about bloody's case on hap other than 'I agree'. There's no conversation to be had about that, and I was busy in the thread speaking to you about other stuff at that time. I agree with plenty of stuff people say in the thread but I don't always make a point of posting about it. If hap had done more at that time I would have had reason to to go analyze his posts or respond to bloody with my own opinions about it but he hadn't and so I don't see the point in posting +1s or 'i agree' or something like that. Hm, I guess that makes some sense. Except we wrapped up our conversation before BloodyC0bbler posted on Hapahauli, but it's a small detail.
It's this weird thing in mafia where everything I know about the game tells me Jockmcplop is mafia, but I am also so bad at the game I could be completely wrong Gonna be stupid and look at a Jockmcplop town game for him saying "I agree" or an equivalent...
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On April 06 2020 19:46 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me. The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap. Sorry to keep pestering you, but I don't understand the second paragraph. Honest curiosity about what you are saying.
What does being under pressure matter for this? Like why is that difference alignment indicative? And what does the last sentence mean, that you have to agree with it because it's a decent case, or that Hapahauli had no decent case on you to agree with? I think I'm just missing your intention with those sentences, sorry.
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On April 06 2020 20:08 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2020 20:01 Trfel wrote:On April 06 2020 19:46 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 06 2020 19:35 Trfel wrote:
To me it feels like you saw the wagon gaining support and only then jumped on. Unless there is something I am missing? I can see how it would look like that. I would say that also applies to hap's return to the thread and his subsequent vote for me. The difference being that hap was under pressure at the time and I wasn't, and also that when I made my reads list the only decent case in the thread was against hap. Sorry to keep pestering you, but I don't understand the second paragraph. Honest curiosity about what you are saying. What does being under pressure matter for this? Like why is that difference alignment indicative? And what does the last sentence mean, that you have to agree with it because it's a decent case, or that Hapahauli had no decent case on you to agree with? I think I'm just missing your intention with those sentences, sorry. If you're under pressure you need to post reads and figure out a way to survive. Hapahauli has worked out his best way to survive. My read on hap was based on the information available in the thread, that's why i scumread him, because the best case in the thread was about hapahauli. Hapahauli's reason for scumreading me was survival. Fair enough, I appreciate you humoring me. I don't know if there is anything else you can help me with currently, I just need to think about it and figure things out. And sleep. Maybe in reverse order.
My meta check came back inconclusive, I didn't find what I was looking for (to confirm or reject it) but I did see a ton of original thought. Going to reread Jockmcplop's filter and try to look at the big picture instead of the small details.
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Looking at the big picture... It just feels to me like Jockmcplop isn't doing anything. I don't see a direction or creativity.
He questioned me for a while and ended up reading me as somewhat suspicious, sure. But he hasn't really followed that up. Instead he followed other to vote for Hapahauli. And is scumreading Rels and ShoCkeyy.
Honestly it's kinda a boring filter. And that makes me think Jockmcplop is mafia. But I don't want to tunnel, and I really need sleep So I'll try and sleep and re-evaluate in the morning.
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And I actually kinda like that Jockmcplop post. Though, didn't you say mafia love to say they're trying to get people talking? 
I don't know anything
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On April 06 2020 20:42 Vivax wrote:
Shockeyy has still done fuck all and is lynchable for me.
Even on the chance that Jock is mafia it doesn't feel right to me not to lynch Shockeyy over him here after he said 7 hours ago he was catching up. I could be on board with this too. Rels will likely be modkilled for not voting if he doesn't return, so he'd be a bad option.
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EPT
