EPTOn March 15 2018 05:38 n00bKing wrote:
Don't know how much longer the game will end up taking. I'll probably check in it here and there. But in case I'm not around for the post-game, I'll go ahead and give a couple of thoughts now.
I think the game culture here is pretty toxic.
The idea that rsoul would feel like she has to defend HF regarding his anti-town behavior because "he pushes the mafia agenda while he's town" is baffling. The idea that HF would himself tell me he shouldn't be scum-read for pushing the mafia agenda because he would do it while town is baffling. The fact that it was true he was town in this game is insane.
NO player should EVER be forced into a position where they have to defend someone else from the noose, on the basis of "he tries to help the scum team even when he's town." Why would a town player do that? I've still never heard an excuse for it, just that he DOES it. Why??! That should be a viable reason to scumread someone, over and over and over.
In this game, I caught Holyflare in 3 separate instances of trying to push us in scum-favored directions, instead of just following the ALREADY-ESTABLISHED pro-town plan. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.
I also caught him in both logical inconsistencies AND the use of logical fallacies. The false dichotomy I caught him trying to use was terrible. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.
In his attacks on his scumreads and in his defenses of himself, he very consistently said things that simply were not true. That could be verified as untrue if anyone just *actually* went back to look, as I did. I repeatedly said that if anyone just goes back and actually looks at the way [occasion] happened, they'll see that he can only be mistaken or LYING, and nothing else. Seemingly, no one ever looked but me. When the argument between the two of us reached its apex, he was putting a falsehood in at least every other post. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.
I don't want to play in games where these are not reliable indicators of scum play, because there is a guy who plays anti-town in his town for no reason. I want to play in games where finding someone *actively working* to help scum win the game...is probably scum. And if I were hosting a game, I would probably ask HF not to participate in it, so that the other players could play the game the way it's meant to be played. I think the way he played this game is against the very spirit of the game itself, and robs other players of the experience they are intended to have. The other places I play, someone like HF couldn't exist for very long. He would have been RELIGIOUSLY lynched for his scum-favored play (and yes, mislynched sometimes, if that's what it took) until he LEARNED BETTER.
You also have a big "afk players" problem. I talked about this 2 or 3 years ago, but if this game is any indication? Your problem here has only gotten worse, and not better.
On the site I play most often, we don't even hold open "replacement" slots during registration. If a game fills, it starts. And even if it's a 25-player game, we don't expect that a "replacement" will definitely be needed. People sign up because they want to play.
This game, meanwhile, took over TWO WEEKS to fill, even though it required only 13 players. And then, of those 13 signups, FOUR of them did not actually play. Four of Thirteen! And that's if you say Fecalfeast DID play (which is generous. I would usually expect a player with that little activity to be pressured for "lurking" except we had several players who were somehow doing even less.)
chaoser and damdred were replaced, and prplhz and Kelsier easily *could* have been replaced. That's really...REALLY bad. Even one of the replacements (Alakaslam) never really did anything, and less than half of his posts were game-related.
I don't know if your bad-game-environment problem can be fixed at this point or not. If so, I don't know if you solve it through more aggressively lynching afk players, or if you solve it with harsher penalties for players who sign up and then don't play. But hopefully you can find SOMEthing to do about it. Or things will just remain a cesspool here. This is probably the LEAST happy I've ever been, about winning a game. Whenever the scum medic does flip, what am I gonna "celebrate" about this victory? Where 4 signups didn't play, one of the other signups played a scum-favored game while he was town, and none of the other players seemed to care that he was doing it. Yay.
I would say the likelihood is Fecalfeast > DF > Vivax, for finding the mafia medic. I would say "good luck" except that, given the way HF played this game, and given that he turned out to be town....I can't say I even care anymore either.
Peace.
Don't know how much longer the game will end up taking. I'll probably check in it here and there. But in case I'm not around for the post-game, I'll go ahead and give a couple of thoughts now.
I think the game culture here is pretty toxic.
The idea that rsoul would feel like she has to defend HF regarding his anti-town behavior because "he pushes the mafia agenda while he's town" is baffling. The idea that HF would himself tell me he shouldn't be scum-read for pushing the mafia agenda because he would do it while town is baffling. The fact that it was true he was town in this game is insane.
NO player should EVER be forced into a position where they have to defend someone else from the noose, on the basis of "he tries to help the scum team even when he's town." Why would a town player do that? I've still never heard an excuse for it, just that he DOES it. Why??! That should be a viable reason to scumread someone, over and over and over.
In this game, I caught Holyflare in 3 separate instances of trying to push us in scum-favored directions, instead of just following the ALREADY-ESTABLISHED pro-town plan. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.
I also caught him in both logical inconsistencies AND the use of logical fallacies. The false dichotomy I caught him trying to use was terrible. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.
In his attacks on his scumreads and in his defenses of himself, he very consistently said things that simply were not true. That could be verified as untrue if anyone just *actually* went back to look, as I did. I repeatedly said that if anyone just goes back and actually looks at the way [occasion] happened, they'll see that he can only be mistaken or LYING, and nothing else. Seemingly, no one ever looked but me. When the argument between the two of us reached its apex, he was putting a falsehood in at least every other post. This should ALWAYS be good cause to scumread a player.
I don't want to play in games where these are not reliable indicators of scum play, because there is a guy who plays anti-town in his town for no reason. I want to play in games where finding someone *actively working* to help scum win the game...is probably scum. And if I were hosting a game, I would probably ask HF not to participate in it, so that the other players could play the game the way it's meant to be played. I think the way he played this game is against the very spirit of the game itself, and robs other players of the experience they are intended to have. The other places I play, someone like HF couldn't exist for very long. He would have been RELIGIOUSLY lynched for his scum-favored play (and yes, mislynched sometimes, if that's what it took) until he LEARNED BETTER.
You also have a big "afk players" problem. I talked about this 2 or 3 years ago, but if this game is any indication? Your problem here has only gotten worse, and not better.
On the site I play most often, we don't even hold open "replacement" slots during registration. If a game fills, it starts. And even if it's a 25-player game, we don't expect that a "replacement" will definitely be needed. People sign up because they want to play.
This game, meanwhile, took over TWO WEEKS to fill, even though it required only 13 players. And then, of those 13 signups, FOUR of them did not actually play. Four of Thirteen! And that's if you say Fecalfeast DID play (which is generous. I would usually expect a player with that little activity to be pressured for "lurking" except we had several players who were somehow doing even less.)
chaoser and damdred were replaced, and prplhz and Kelsier easily *could* have been replaced. That's really...REALLY bad. Even one of the replacements (Alakaslam) never really did anything, and less than half of his posts were game-related.
I don't know if your bad-game-environment problem can be fixed at this point or not. If so, I don't know if you solve it through more aggressively lynching afk players, or if you solve it with harsher penalties for players who sign up and then don't play. But hopefully you can find SOMEthing to do about it. Or things will just remain a cesspool here. This is probably the LEAST happy I've ever been, about winning a game. Whenever the scum medic does flip, what am I gonna "celebrate" about this victory? Where 4 signups didn't play, one of the other signups played a scum-favored game while he was town, and none of the other players seemed to care that he was doing it. Yay.
I would say the likelihood is Fecalfeast > DF > Vivax, for finding the mafia medic. I would say "good luck" except that, given the way HF played this game, and given that he turned out to be town....I can't say I even care anymore either.
Peace.
What site are you from?
I shall go forth and see if it is like smashboards
