Newbie Student Mafia XXVIII - Page 85

On January 27 2018 08:00 Rels wrote:
Now HF:
- has been pushing for mafia objectives all game long: lynch Damdred or BTDT over DF during D1, lynch prp over Damerion D2, soft a role during the night N2, believed Damerion's claim D3. Now I want to make it clear that being wrong does not make anyone scum by itself. But. HF is a very strong a logical player, as either alignment. And this game is being seen more or less the same way by a lot of players I consider strong: rsoultin, KSC, JAT ... but HF for some reason has had the exact opposite view of the game than all of these players. Even if it doesn't make HF scum by itself, it's a big indicator that he's been this wrong in this straight-forward game.
- has entered pointless debate mode whenever he's been attacked. That started D1 when he deflected rsoul's accusation of defending DF by saying he was going home, which was not the original point; and that continued all game until earlier, where he was whining about being tunneled so much and trying to throw shade at me.
- and last but not least, my case on him. Regardless of everything I've said above, the case by itself make him scum. It's just impossible that town!HF would risk the cop getting roleblocked. I know that for a player that never played with HF, it seems dumb to have that kind of certainty over this: if that's the case and you refuse to take my word for it, I would ask you to do your research and verify how HF plays as town during the night.

On January 19 2018 11:55 Mocsta wrote:
TL;DR: ##Vote: Damdred
============================
I am concerned...

I am seeing a pattern of people issuing town reads (solely) for being congruent with their reads.



============================

If you want me to join the town circle-jerk club.
Fine: There is only one individual that gives me consitently good feelings and that is + Show Spoiler +

Whilst I dont agree with the conclusions drawn by this player, I dont think the motives are malicious due to the above.

============================

But, I would rather weigh in on nulls and reds.


Priority #1: What to make of damerion/damdred case

• Case is quite subjective to me, and presents a damned-if-you, damned-if-you-don't argument.
  Acceptable for early Day1 and overall, I catergorise this as a poke.
  
• Damdred brushing off the case is only indicative of confidence, rather than alignment
  
• Damerion followup is OK given the case/poke premise of meta.
  
• Damdred wanting to work together is only indicative of understanding the game mechanics , rather than alignment.

Whilst I have no qualm with Damdred brushing off the case, i do have a problem with how Damdred clings to the mocsta/DF thread sentiment throughout his filter and case response.

"Why doesn't it make sense that they could be scum together (mocsta and DF), they have no real interactions together (yet)...But still a bit much to make a decision either way I suppose. But both are scummy"
"But id be happy just lynching moc today anyway."
"but also seems like a way to change conversation away from DF and moc who I guess you have at null?"

This is wishy washy at best, and non-congruent with the town-play meta argument at worst.

I think a town that is +1 bandwagoning would be more likely to get frustrated during this exchange. Especially in day1 when circles are small, and paranoia can be at its peak.
This is not present at all. Rather, whilst being poked Damdred remains calculated in response; making it even more intrigruing that a firm opinion is held without a firm base. Uncharacteristic of a measured thinker.

Overall, I observe Damdred employing an "appeal to emotion" through reconjuring thread bias without further substantiating or developing it.
Whilst, town is capable of using this (typically under confirmation bias) - at what point can it be deduced that Damdred is experiencing confirmation bias?? At what point can it be deduced that Damdred is poking somone, or laying a trap?

Rather, I prefer the simplest explanation: that an appeal to emotion is a tactic associated with lazy mafia play.

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Priority #2: Other comments of interest


Holyflare
Im confused by HF - until he "couldnt fathom the mindset" of kelsier, I wasnt actually sure why damdred was voted.
On one hand, I feel that HF is constantly prodding people in a constructive manner;
On the other hand, whilst he has communicated why he voted damdred, its for reasoning I dont agree with (i.e.
focusing on behaviour rather than motive).
Am i wrong to expect more?

Darthfoley
Reads like he is observing the game and commenting for funsies.
I dont know how to explain it other than its feels like he is here, yet not actually in the moment?!?!
More investigating required.

mderg
I feel that mderg is trying to post just enough to not be forgotten.
Its interesting that the biggest attempt to persuade the thread revolves around shifting the focus from damdred to
damerion. "Using the fact that Damdred left the thread is like the weakest reason to push the read I can imagine."
Given I think the poke was fair game, i think this is hyperbole from mderg.
An interesting connection with potentially interesting timing nonetheless.

On January 19 2018 12:31 Mocsta wrote:
Is that not the point? Damdred was appealing to thread bias to push scum reads on his behalf...A soft push bruh.


Firstly, Tina hasnt put me in town circle?? Secondly, this is a not a logical conclusion as when reversed: If Tina is mafia and likes enthusiasm; your logic infers it would be a naturally difficult for her to call me mafia... i.e. whether rsoultin is town or mafia, I end up town.


I dont understand how you can elicit such a strong opinion when damdred hasnt flipped? I do think Damdred is scummy, so why should others know better? The strong opinion is what makes this feel like a cheap way to open the door to target that wagon.


What credit? He was trying to sway the case from damdred to damerion?

Either you are using too much intraverted intuition to converge possibilities or or intentionally misinterpretting events.


This I do agree with.

On January 30 2018 19:40 Koshi wrote:

People should stop thinking hf is good as town. Been saying this for so long.

On January 20 2018 23:26 Mocsta wrote:
I shall illuminate my top 2 reads in further detail to connect how and more importantly why they are a scum pairing.
Please refer to my 4000 word case below.

Why is DF scum
Read DF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this....
+ Show Spoiler +

Why is HF scum
Read HF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this...
+ Show Spoiler +

Why does it work together
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 30 2018 19:47 Mocsta wrote:
Whats the point of this post.

No need to shit on people that are dead. So are you being a tool for the sake of it, or relating this to Rels?

On January 21 2018 20:47 Mocsta wrote:
im happy to clear BTDT by association after reading Darthfoley filter
the nitpicking case reminds me of the bullshit he stated for me being scum.

So i think mderg summary below is accurate.


Its not unheard of for scum to not vote, but its not something I would be willing to consider at this stage. Even with 2 town being prime bandwagon, the fact that DF was semi-close to a lynch should force a scum kmatt to vote.
So kmatt is effectively green for today.

Im still green on TWAT + Rels

2 scum within: damerion, HF, mderg, prplhz

If damdred is the player everyone says he is, its quite the mastermind effort to facillitate a lynch him day1.
This points to HF for me by default.

need to know why Hf thinks prplhz is town.

gonna start looking into mderg in more detail

On January 30 2018 19:50 Koshi wrote:

Probably tool.

On January 30 2018 19:56 Koshi wrote:
And Rels his filter is really bleak. The HF stuff is all great fun but I did the same with Palmar last year.

The total picture is completely missing in Rels his filter. He isnt prodding enough people and he doesnt store and remember good posts in his head.

On January 19 2018 18:50 mderg wrote:
Trying to shortly summarize my thoughts on everyone


Twat: probably town
kmatt: no idea
Damerion: don't like his tunneling on damdred, could be scum
btdt: no idea
Mocsta: probably town, conversation with rsoultin looks like town on town argument
Rels: just latches onto the damdred wagon and his work is done
rsoultin: probably town
df: meh
damdred: leaning town
prplhz: no idea
Kelsier: leaning towads town very slightly
Holyflare: I would expect more from town hf but I always have him as scum

On January 19 2018 20:21 mderg wrote:

I don't think all 3 of them are scum together. Both damerion and hf are in my would lynch because scummy pile with damerion being higher up in the scummy department.

On January 19 2018 21:11 mderg wrote:

Who are you and what did you do to the real holyflare?

On January 20 2018 08:49 mderg wrote:
Kelsier is scum btw