[T] MS Paint-Off Mafia - Page 82

On August 16 2017 05:39 Jealous wrote:
Parking on rayn until I look at FF's filter later tonight. Definitely not voting for H1 but I guess I will have to do my due diligence and look at his filter too; even though he's one of my hard town reads, that kind of false confidence and unwillingness to read filters is exactly what makes people play bad.

On August 17 2017 22:51 Conversion wrote:
@Jealous



why did you end up never doing anything you mentioned and left your vote parked on rayn?

On August 17 2017 13:53 Jealous wrote:

Okay so first I'll explain my thought process reading the relevant posts, and I'll post a conclusion after I'm done.

Looking at this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=73#1445



I'm guessing the implication here is that TW was trying to appear more townie because he already knew what the outcome of lynching FF would be.



One has to keep in mind that this is in response to this TW post:

+ Show Spoiler +

Which was made four hours before the Day 1 Eliminations were posted: I also don't see any mention of FF in there.

+ Show Spoiler +

Is geript implying that TW was trying to raise H1's scum value and raise FF's townie value? I guess I can see that from a scum perspective, but I think it's NAI. Plenty of people have been giving relatively unexplained reads and changes in those reads based on vague one-liners. If every person who did that in this game was scum, there would be like 0 town players in this game lol. And again, FF was not mentioned in the post that geript was referencing.

Moving on, I agree with geript that TW's CopCake post was bad. I also called him out on it, and after a brief back-and-forth he stopped answering me on that subject in particular, here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=53#1058

Then he picked it back up later:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=55#1090

I respond to this, and he doesn't respond once again. So yea, not a good track record. I would think that my posts would deserve at least an "Oh, ok," or something of that nature. From what I'm seeing here, I'm not seeing even that.

In response to this post by geript:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=73#1448

I do agree with geript that the timing of TW's "filter analysis" is suspect. That is something that might get missed if someone isn't careful when they look at TW's filter, especially in the short-term when it now says "8 hours ago" or whatever. So, that's a good catch and definitely more worthwhile than that other argument that centered around timing, which was just bad in all directions imo (though I appreciated the sentiment from H1).

I just don't understand why TW would claim to filter dive then come back so soon afterwards with those conclusions in a logical townie TW universe. He's not an idiot.

I also agree with geript's analysis of what TW's options were, but I feel like I'm not appreciating the full impact of that argument; what are the conclusions in this case? As in, TW is scum because... He lied about reading filters? What did he gain from this lie, if we assume that it was a 3 town lynch pool? I guess the implication would have to be that it's not a 3 town lynch pool - in which case, the narrative being pushed is that TW was trying to distance himself from H1 and buddybuddy with FF/rayn. Which means... TW + H1 team?

Conclusion: I do agree with a lot of geript's analysis; I will have to revisit my H1 read to see how much I can agree with the universe that is being created as a result, if I understood it correctly. Perhaps geript can clarify for me if my analysis of her argument is correct. I did have a strong H1 town read, but that was quite some time ago; however, I don't recall seeing anything scummy from H1 recently.

In short: Potentially plausible, need more feedback to be sure and need to do more research in the morning to confirm.

On August 17 2017 22:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not to even mention when HF calls a shot on me EVERYTHING Jealous does is like "well why are you doing this HF????". THE DUDE IS TRYING TO SHOOT HIS TOP SCUMREAD!

On August 17 2017 22:56 Hopeless1der wrote:

I kinda want timestamps on this. HF has been on a "rayn is confirmed town for cheating" kick for some time now.

On August 16 2017 05:39 Jealous wrote:

Uhhh

On August 16 2017 05:39 Jealous wrote:

y u do dis

On August 16 2017 05:46 Jealous wrote:

As much as I don't like how rayn has been playing, I have to agree with this post's sentiment. HF can you explain your thought process in shooting so early from the lynchpool and posting about it as well?

On August 17 2017 22:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Did he? not literally. But what do you think this line says then:

Did i? What do you think his conclusion should be? At the time, when he took his vote off he said NOTHING about any confirmed town thing, he just said "the wagon formed too quickly".

On August 17 2017 22:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also if you're town Holyflare you should really really hard look into Jealous.

On August 17 2017 22:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Not to even mention when HF calls a shot on me EVERYTHING Jealous does is like "well why are you doing this HF????". THE DUDE IS TRYING TO SHOOT HIS TOP SCUMREAD!

On August 17 2017 23:07 Holyflare wrote:


Actually that's a lie.

You were jealous' town lean :D :D :D

On August 17 2017 00:59 Holyflare wrote:


Scum reads aee the only important thing. Mafia can easily make 100 town reads but it's harder to fabricate mafia reads. See this post for a prime example of why you've dropped down. 50/50 on me again.

I also forgot about your vote

Rayn being removed from the game is nothing but good imo. His attitude was toxic but that doesn't mean he's not confirmed town. I did NOT shut down conversation for 36 hours in the slightest. This happened less than 24 hours ago and all morning I've talked with geript and conversion and we've produced content so that is frankly quite dishonest.

Talking about rayn being scummy when he was scummy is not a bad thing. At least the judges and apparently you agree because you're voting for him. This is actually quite a confusing point you raise. Is this a criticism? Why is it bad for me to talk about the person you now want to lynch? Why do you want to lynch him when he's a town read?

I also don't understand why everyone suddenly dropped their votes on rayn just because I shot him but didn't even bother to look at the other two?? Doesn't make sense to me.

On August 17 2017 05:21 Holyflare wrote:
Also I just want to reiterate that although I town read jealous for his vote making me have a vest he town read rayn before his vote on him today and is simply voting him because the judges said so effectively

Also, heavy misrepresentation on your part when you say I have all 50/50 reads. I said that H1 and geript are hard town for me. I said that Damdred is scum lean. I said that rayn townlean. Please no misrep. Also curious how I moved down your list in towniness with no input on my part, after you said that my vote for you was the "towniest thing ever" but I can understand the wifom involved in that as well (I was curious why no one other than you said anything about it and you viewed it so purely positively... that's a topic for another discussion. For the record I just couldn't risk it going to CopCake).

On August 17 2017 00:39 Jealous wrote:
Quick catch-up post:

1. @conversion: Cop couldn't be in the lynch pool, please familiarize yourself with the game because this was a major point in the early hours of phase 1 to the point where Artanis had to step in.

2. @HF: Looking at your progression throughout the game through memory, it looks a lot like this: spend the majority of your time antagonizing rayn which becomes the main topic of conversation for many hours and gets heated and likely contributed to him being in the lynch pool, throw in some okayish reads on other people but don't discuss them much (until recently), then claim to have vig shot and to have shot rayn while also claiming that he is townlock which effectively "made him quit" and ushered in a decent period of silence from everyone, then come back and judge people for still voting for rayn. There are different ways to interpret this:

1. That you were in fact in the heat of the moment and kicked in the door guns blazing and have cooled off, and that Artanis' post does in your mind town lock rayn, and that you genuinely do think the vote should be on one of FF/H1.

2. You almost singlehandedly sparked into motion a series of events which led to approximately 36 hours of almost no one doing anything not - rayn related, or at least not close to what it would be if you hadn't launched your endless assault. Then you tell people to not vote rayn.

I can see 1. I can also kinda see 2, but if the ends is confirming one town (in your mind) and simultaneously killing their motivation to play, I don't know how much I like that. My wariness is rising and I'm not going to take my vote off rayn just because you said so. I want to see this chapter closed and see what the outcome is without a doubt so that there are no lingering questions. It would be a marvelous scum performance if it was MvM, perhaps overplayed but I can't let the possibility of that go. Ultimately, while I don't think the judges are infallible, they did nominate rayn so as you said earlier, I feel justified.

Also, heavy misrepresentation on your part when you say I have all 50/50 reads. I said that H1 and geript are hard town for me. I said that Damdred is scum lean. I said that rayn townlean. Please no misrep. Also curious how I moved down your list in towniness with no input on my part, after you said that my vote for you was the "towniest thing ever" but I can understand the wifom involved in that as well (I was curious why no one other than you said anything about it and you viewed it so purely positively... that's a topic for another discussion. For the record I just couldn't risk it going to CopCake).

3.@geript: Thank you!