Liquidmania Qualifier #4 - Page 7

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 07 2017 19:07 GMT

#711

On April 08 2017 04:06 Tumblewood wrote:

but they're all him deliberating for seven paragraphs to ultimately reach a waffly conclusion and not say anything interesting

Exactly, nothing new. But that's like the same thing you did thus far.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 07 2017 19:08 GMT

#712

Wait, that does mean I'm supposed to scumread Shape.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 07 2017 19:11 GMT

#715

Actually, checking Shape's filter - he does do things. Like this here

+ Show Spoiler +

On April 06 2017 22:37 Shapelog wrote:
Alright, here where I stand with the conversation between Calix and BTDT.

For Calix side, the following makes me think they are more town then scum when I look at this part.

Show nested quote +

I personally think that if Calix was scum, they would of not posted this. It would make sense for Scum!Calix to keep on BTDT as to have a excuse to post, and also because of the what apparently happen with a misunderstanding last game. I do acknowledge that Calix could be backing off here as scum due to a lack of footing on BTDT, but I expect that they would keep on for later credit of being active D1 or even for being on BTDT/Ryan later on if either got into negative light.

Moreover, BTDT was more in the mood of keeping the fight going on. Which would allow scum!calix to hide in what would prob. develop into a shitfight with BTDT for getting pass d1.

However, I personally do not see anything I really like in calix's points. Some I dont really understand the way calix talks (I.E. calix posts kinda feel a bit circlejerking? If that makes sense, prob doesnt). Also, I do feel as there should be more from calix if they are town and though something about BTDT is scummy. I don't get the stance of "waiting to question you" at all either.

But doesn't feel like calix is at the stage of mafia discrediting that is usually happening at this stage of the game hmmm.

I will say that I would rank calix a bit above null into the town lean range b/c while I do not understand calix overall stance, I think the clear out looks more town then mafia in my eyes.

Flipsid3, I think BTDT also displayed similar actions regarding koshi's meta point and not voting calix. His posts dont feel like he is being pressured in my eyes, and seems more of him trying to figure out calixs point while being mad at calix logic. One could state that he is being pretty agressive in a way, but I just chop it up to him as taking a stance at figuring out the game. Don't really have a issue with him right now.

More towny then Calix and working his way up to a town lean

This sparked up quite some positive discussion on things and led to others dropping opinions, too.
His filter looks way better than Tumble's filter.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 07 2017 20:49 GMT

#743

hahaha imagine a Rels/Koshi scum team. town would be so playing itself

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 09:35 GMT

#843

On April 08 2017 07:40 Hapahauli wrote:

Repost, since this shouldn't be at the bottom:

Calix (4) - Koshi, darthfoley, raynpelikoneet, Rels
Tumblewood (2) - beentheredonethat, Shapelog
Rels (1) - Tumblewood
Shapelog (1) - sicklucker

Not Voting (1) - Calix

Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day (plurality) will be lynched.
Only votes in the voting thread will count.

The day will end in at 01:30 GMT (+00:00).

Great flip!

So Koshi, rayn, darth are pretty much cleared. Rels would've probably voted with me and Shape und Tumble so I assume he's pretty much cleared, too.

The last scum hides between Shape, Tumble and Sicklucker. Tumble continued to do nothing and kept his vote on the irrelevant side of things. You could argue that Shape and me did so, too, but at least we had one wagon going.
Sicklucker voted outside of Tumble/Calix but wanted to lynch shape.

Of course each of Shape, tumble, sicklucker will replace himself with me on that scumlist.

sicklucker initially voted for me. He might have actual reasons for that, or he's just tilted because I dropped a "fuck you".
At this point, I want to apologize to sicklucker. I was already emotional when sicklucker chose to quote my Tumble case and react with virtually one single line to it which wasn't even serious. He absolutely tilted me with that (and I still feel tilted even thinking of it). Nevertheless, I shouldn't have reacted like that.

So sicklucker says:

On April 07 2017 19:35 sicklucker wrote:
I mean its thin. they also dont look like mafia/mafia

(regarding calix vs btdt argument)

while also saying

On April 07 2017 19:36 sicklucker wrote:
tumble had alot of good posts tho. maybe some bad ones I filtered out but some good ones

so tendency is that I am not scum for him and tumble isn't, too. That leaves shape and this is genuine to be honest, I think his read progression and voting pattern (besides voting me) makes sense. So sicklucker might not be the remaining scum and I'd not lynch him over Tumble or Shape.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 09:36 GMT

#844

I think Rels piling on Calix, making it 4v2, clears him. Rels voting Tumble, making it 3-3 with others voting outside of it, would've been scummy as fuck.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 09:41 GMT

#845

ah wait, Tumble ended up on Shape. Didn't realize that, was at the wrong votecount.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 09:47 GMT

#846

On April 08 2017 09:36 Tumblewood wrote:
no reason for me to still be voting rels. shapelog vs calix is a tossup imo, given that calix can't be bothered to show up as soon as she's scumread. but I'll stick back on shape for now because I doubt town!shape clears himself later more likely than town!calix

Tumble votes Rels. Okay, I interpret that as scummy behaviour in the context of his three townreads.
But he then ends up voting with sicklucker on Shapelog. Reading his filter, the vote makes sense, he kinda developed that read over the course of time. Only thing that strikes me is the low volume of posts right now.

Like, Tumble didn't actively do a lot but he seems to at least vote reasonably.
It's not enough to retract my scumread. But it, like, makes it a bit better.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 09:48 GMT

#847

On April 08 2017 18:36 beentheredonethat wrote:
I think Rels piling on Calix, making it 4v2, clears him. Rels voting Tumble, making it 3-3 with others voting outside of it, would've been scummy as fuck.

Yeah, I double checked. When Rels voted, he made it 4v2 in Calix vs. Tumble, he could've made it 3-3.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 09:49 GMT

#848

As we only have two scummers, it's unlikely that he bussed. Feels more like afk Rels coming in, not being able to properly read up because of thread volume, voting main wagon because that's what you do when you haven't read the thread and still try to somehow reasonably vote. Right?

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 10:00 GMT

#849

Let's also not forget that Tumble claimed a "mindmeld" with Calix. I don't think you do that as scum. Like, first thing you do is hardcore buddy up with your teammate when the rest of your play is "well, I'll stay under the radar"?

I more and more get to think Tumble isn't actually scum. It's currently a gut feeling but the Calix flip seems to indicate that.

That would mean that Shape should be the next lynch as he's been really hedgy about Calix and me.
But then again, Shape clearly says he cannot see Tumble in a team with Calix. Which I kinda agree to.

On April 08 2017 05:42 Shapelog wrote:
As long as one of Calix/Tumblewood is lynched today I will be happy.

On April 08 2017 02:45 Shapelog wrote:
But honestly tho, I dont know who else would be mafia with tumble. Looking at it roughly:

Rels is a odd ball that hasnt posted anything.
Calix maybe but that has to have certain factors involve with it. Also some weird team behavior.
SL i could see.
BTDT: Bus for life -> keep busing -> even more busing -> OMG what a bus -> reverse bus kill. Don't recall either fond of busing that much.
Rayn maybe.
Koshi's early posts with tumble being confirmed town would be very odd.
Darth maybe.

Hmm. That whole post is non-commital. And the Calix part is weird, hedgy.

But overall, Shape's filter feels like he's active, asking questions, progressing the thread. He's sticking to asking Tumble stuff, he continuesly says he's fine with a Calix lynch, and overall keeps a calm town which isn't necessarily easy to have as town when you're faced with rayn, sicklucker and myself (esp. myself).

In general, kudos to Koshi and Shape and Rayn for calming me down instead of tilting me further.

I'm not sure about Shape at this point.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 08 2017 11:42 GMT

#854

Ill be around very late this day if at all. Real life things. Probably around 11-12pm cet +2

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 09 2017 09:07 GMT

#938

Hi. voting shape seems to be the obvious thing. Worth a try but I am paranoid over Shape being town. There are some things in his filter that feel a lot like it and people might be tunneled.

We're down to one scum, so we have 7 town votes and 1 scum votes. That means that the scum vote isn't that relevant anymore.

I think Tumble might get too easy town credit. Yes I know that I give him town credit for the Calix/Tumble is unlikely stuff but it's not a full clear. Same goes for Rels, someone said that it would've been a big risk for scum!Rels to make the wagon 3-3 with a AFK Calix.

but then again, a Rels/Calix scumteam feels weird given the level of afk'ness that both have/had.

My main pain points on Shape are hedging and committing to the wrong wagon. But: he could've voted with Tumbe/Sicklucker as there was (imho) no way more people would pile on TW. I wasn't in thread and thread wasn't interested in Tumble.

Maybe it's just town paranoia. My top townreads do vote for shape. So while I'm still paranoid, it's okay I guess.

##vote Shapelog

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 09 2017 18:34 GMT

#959

On April 09 2017 22:53 Shapelog wrote:

Show nested quote +

That i made.

Show nested quote +

Seriously tho,

Where are you actually with tumble and Rels? This post tells me nothing bc ironically ur wishy washing in it.
Why is the afk scum team weird when you dont know the factors of it?

It is pretty clear that I started to townread Tumble from my previous posts.
It is pretty clear that I townread Rels for voting 4-2 instead of 3-3.

Yes, it's not in the post you quoted. BUT it is in the posts I already made during the night. So - no, I am not wishy washy in it.

A afk scum team would be weird because it's really hard to read into.

I clearly express that I am okay with voting you, Shape, and I am content in following my top townreads. I am NOT being wishy washy because I ALSO say that I do have doubts about you being scum. Which is pretty normal.

I don't know how you can say that I'm wishy washy there. Only way to do it is if you completely discard my posts during the night.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 09 2017 19:12 GMT

#963

On April 10 2017 03:37 darthfoley wrote:
@ Shape

Well yea the remaining scum in this situation has to keep options open and back doors available because of the D1 lynch and now the save in the night. This is one of the main reasons I don't like how btdt has approached the thread recently.

Explain to me why so I also understand it, please. How am I keeping options open when I'm voting Shape and adding two people to my town pile?

Tumble, Rels, you and Rayn are on my town pile. I'm okay with a Shape lynch because I see the reasons people are voting him and I agree with them. Of course there's noone defending Shape - everyone's hoping he'll flip scum and the one remaining scum is fine with a clear mislynch if Shape is town.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 09 2017 19:13 GMT

#964

Then again, SL claimed doc more or less so I should add him to my town pile, too. That leaves - Koshi. Wow.
Regarding the SL doc claim: keep in mind that Mafia can hold their shot. It might very well be that SL claimed doc although he simply held his shot.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 09 2017 19:49 GMT

#970

On April 10 2017 04:22 Shapelog wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 10 2017 03:34 beentheredonethat wrote:

On April 09 2017 22:53 Shapelog wrote:

On April 09 2017 11:23 darthfoley wrote:

On April 09 2017 11:17 Shapelog wrote:

On April 09 2017 10:32 darthfoley wrote:
Let's gooooo

Also u going to answer me or not?

What was the question?

On April 09 2017 09:16 Shapelog wrote:
Also what do you think about the SL part of the Rels post?

That i made.

On April 09 2017 18:07 beentheredonethat wrote:
Hi. voting shape seems to be the obvious thing. Worth a try but I am paranoid over Shape being town. There are some things in his filter that feel a lot like it and people might be tunneled.

We're down to one scum, so we have 7 town votes and 1 scum votes. That means that the scum vote isn't that relevant anymore.

I think Tumble might get too easy town credit. Yes I know that I give him town credit for the Calix/Tumble is unlikely stuff but it's not a full clear. Same goes for Rels, someone said that it would've been a big risk for scum!Rels to make the wagon 3-3 with a AFK Calix.

but then again, a Rels/Calix scumteam feels weird given the level of afk'ness that both have/had.

My main pain points on Shape are hedging and committing to the wrong wagon. But: he could've voted with Tumbe/Sicklucker as there was (imho) no way more people would pile on TW. I wasn't in thread and thread wasn't interested in Tumble.

Maybe it's just town paranoia. My top townreads do vote for shape. So while I'm still paranoid, it's okay I guess.

##vote Shapelog

Seriously tho,

Where are you actually with tumble and Rels? This post tells me nothing bc ironically ur wishy washing in it.
Why is the afk scum team weird when you dont know the factors of it?

Because your providing yourself a way to get out of those reads.

Show nested quote +

Those reasoning on why you think they are town are also what you are saying giving them too much town credit. You admit this yourself in that post. Why do you want others to not look at your townreads as town, or now relook and give them less credit? It makes no sense if you really think they are town.

Even with doubts about them, I don't see someone making a post where they state that the reason they are townreading shouldn't be giving that much credit.

It's really alarming esp. to me bc Ik either you or Rels 90% of the time here is mafia. And here you are potentially setting up to ML them if your mafia.

And lets say you are fine with me being lynched and do have doubts saying im scum.What I dont follow is the reasoning to keep posting things to show off your not certain. I get openly discussing in the thread ad that kinda of stuff, but the way you do it doesn't achieve anything from a townie mindset other than maybe convincing yourself I am scum...Which you SHOULD BE AT come to think if you think the rest of the people are town, like you just stated in your reply.

For example you post this.

Show nested quote +

You have reasons to think im town, but your sticking with your townreads stance on me. I understand that. But saying your certain in your vote isn't true. You stated "it's okay i guess.", meaning not only do you doubt your read, but also your vote.

Furthermore in the night, you stated you dont feel certain on it and had more reasons to think im town

Show nested quote +

According to what you just said in your reply. There should be NO ONE ELSE to suspect as scum if you think that tumble is town, and rels is town, then me. Meaning, you should be on my ass with fire. Instead you "have doubts"

Of course I get out of reads. Reads are subject to change over the course of the game. Everyone who says "this guy is 100% alignment x" and is always right is scum.

You say:

Because I might be wrong Oo. I want everyone to not sheep me but instead develop their own opinions. Especially in terms of town reads I am not supposed to make everyone my townreads their townreads. I'd do so if one of my townreads would be up for the lynch which is not the case.

It's really alarming esp. to me bc Ik either you or Rels 90% of the time here is mafia. And here you are potentially setting up to ML them if your mafia.

If it's either me or Rels, why did you absolutely not care about me or Rels previously? Why did you even vote with me? Why didn't you vote for Rels? And where do you get this very high probability from?

And lets say you are fine with me being lynched and do have doubts saying im scum.What I dont follow is the reasoning to keep posting things to show off your not certain. I get openly discussing in the thread ad that kinda of stuff, but the way you do it doesn't achieve anything from a townie mindset other than maybe convincing yourself I am scum...Which you SHOULD BE AT come to think if you think the rest of the people are town, like you just stated in your reply.

It's rather easy: my top scumread changed to a townread. I have not put in the work (freely admitting that) to re-read everyone, especially since I am fairly happy with you being lynched - I think the chance that you flip scum is at a decent 60-75%.

I freely admit to not having original scumreads on my own right now - which might be scum indicative but to be frank I don't care too much what people think at this point. I mean what's wrong with voting with my top town reads, especially rayn, given that he was the main incentive in lynching Calix which turned out to be a good move?

Yeah, that's true. I'm not 100% sure you're scum, and if Calix had flipped town, I'm pretty sure I'd still be going for Tumblewood way over you. The things you have going for you are things like activity, things like "I have to flip sooner or later because I won't be able to clear myself anyways" which I fully understand (I have the same feeling about myself to be honest, if you don't flip scum, I expect a rather fast mislynch on me)

I do not really know thought what you want to achieve with writing what you wrote there.

Yeah, I do. As you correctly wrote, if you're not scum, all I have left is technically Koshi, who's also townie to me (he voted Calix early, right?).

But remember D1. I got blamed as "bad town" a subjective 10000 times. It's quite possible that I'm wrong on things. That makes me unsure.

beentheredonethat

2934 Posts

April 09 2017 19:50 GMT

#971

On April 10 2017 04:29 Shapelog wrote:

Show nested quote +

Wait you don't beleive koshi is town?

And yea i suppose he could be mafia, in which case I am going to laugh my ass off post game if that is the case and he prob. deserves it bc that plan is fucking brilliant.

I do believe Koshi is town. He's just the only one I did not mention yet, so technically, if it's not SL, I should go after Koshi - but that's not something I'm really putting weight on right now.