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On March 20 2017 01:58 Damdred wrote:
And honestly I am a bit annoyed at not being more town read.
I had a great catch on tumble around eod which is very much scum indicative imo and his explanations still don't do it justice.
Eden seems to be scum to from the way he went about the vote, whatvi said earlier and that post during nightbphase.
Unflipped I know but still.should count for more than just a lean, quet annoying tbh
I thought his conflict/ explanation made sense - why didn't you think so?
I'd rather hear how you, personally, thought that Eden post was bad.
On March 20 2017 02:02 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 01:56 Calix wrote:
Also has your opinion on raynpelikoneet changed at all? You seem to have him as solidly town for most of the day despite him tunneling you with the question thing - why was that? Ryan might be scum but it wouldn't be because of his tunneling me. He does that almost every game up to a point. His smart thing is probably a heuristic he uses a lot but I still feel like I said things he agreed with meh. If he is scum I couldsee it because he refused interaction and ignored me. So idk I kinda am up in the air with the third
Can you bring up a list of examples so I can see where you're coming from better?
I am getting more than a bit annoyed because most of the people I don't really town-read/ have a higher % of being mafia are not fucking playing:
Rels, signed up a week ago yet gives everyone the middle finger by not playing for at least D1-N1.
Onegu, phoning it in as always even when it's extremely unhelpful to do so.
Eden, keeps bitching about his connection.
Koshi, has decided to peace out.
Give me a break. If I am Vigilante then I am 100% shooting one of these four.
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On March 20 2017 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well Onegu voted for mafia.
![[image loading]](https://media.tenor.co/images/4c3280635fa25dd13140df259eb0028a/raw)
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That reason was incredibly underwhelming. And if that's using an ongoing game, also bending the rules.
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If I wanted to deal with MS bullshit, I'd still play on MS.
I'm not going to appreciate the next 48 hours being filled with that. Get a better reason that doesn't break the rules, thanks.
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On March 20 2017 02:22 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 02:09 Calix wrote:On March 20 2017 01:58 Damdred wrote:
And honestly I am a bit annoyed at not being more town read.
I had a great catch on tumble around eod which is very much scum indicative imo and his explanations still don't do it justice.
Eden seems to be scum to from the way he went about the vote, whatvi said earlier and that post during nightbphase.
Unflipped I know but still.should count for more than just a lean, quet annoying tbh I thought his conflict/ explanation made sense - why didn't you think so? I'd rather hear how you, personally, thought that Eden post was bad. On March 20 2017 02:02 Damdred wrote:On March 20 2017 01:56 Calix wrote:
Also has your opinion on raynpelikoneet changed at all? You seem to have him as solidly town for most of the day despite him tunneling you with the question thing - why was that? Ryan might be scum but it wouldn't be because of his tunneling me. He does that almost every game up to a point. His smart thing is probably a heuristic he uses a lot but I still feel like I said things he agreed with meh. If he is scum I couldsee it because he refused interaction and ignored me. So idk I kinda am up in the air with the third Can you bring up a list of examples so I can see where you're coming from better? I am getting more than a bit annoyed because most of the people I don't really town-read/ have a higher % of being mafia are not fucking playing: Rels, signed up a week ago yet gives everyone the middle finger by not playing for at least D1-N1. Onegu, phoning it in as always even when it's extremely unhelpful to do so. Eden, keeps bitching about his connection. Koshi, has decided to peace out. Give me a break. If I am Vigilante then I am 100% shooting one of these four. Yeah, His post was nothing but excuses and complaining. His reaction to the lynch especially domain who wash there does not generally come from town, just as I caught df do his reaction to the lynch when he as scum (damn me for backing off). He had no reason to complain about the lynch since afk made everything not murky and if he was actually reading the game hebwoukd of known why we llynchd mal.His reasoning for voting mewas even worse essslecially if he is legit going to be afk. I basically puts me at the point scum could hammer me over mal if any is on mal. It justbisnt a thought process that I think would come from town Eden who would look at the lynch and pick who he thinks is scum and explain it and not fuck off with some convoluted bs. Examples about smart things? Or example of him tunneling me lots?
Bolded part is the best part.
As for your 'reasoning for voting' paragraph, I think that's really bad if Malongo/ you is TvT because he essentially says that he was willing to risk lynching someone ten times more active than Malongo just to prove a point even though he null-reads both of you. That doesn't look good since Malongo was town so Eden would have probably suspected him if you had been lynched and flipped town. But maybe I am just speculating too much there.
I was going to say 'examples of points where you two have agreed without him acknowledging it' but on second thoughts, I could probably find out just by looking over your filter again so meh.
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If you think ritoky is mafia then feel free to debunk his case or explain how he's mafia using actual in-game information or something -.-
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On March 20 2017 02:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 02:34 Calix wrote:
If you think ritoky is mafia then feel free to debunk his case or explain how he's mafia using actual in-game information or something -.- stfu i don't need to do anything you tell me to. I care about being right and not what you can or cannot understand.
If you're 'right' but fail to convince anyone then you're playing worse than someone who is just wrong so have fun with that 
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On March 20 2017 02:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And i am having fun with that, because people cannot be convinced with any sort of logic anymore in this game so i don't really see what else should i be happy about when playing mafia anymore.
If that's logic then a suicidal drug addict is the epitome of happiness.
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I don't think contradictions are AI unless they actually show scum motivation. In Eden's case, he's scummy for more reasons than hypocrisy.
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On March 20 2017 03:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cslix how fo you know FBS is from MS?
I didn't until you said that you knew him.
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On March 20 2017 03:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Now someone must have told you i am playing a game on MS. Who was it?
You literally posted on the forums that you play on MS and wanted to play with Regfan or something like that.
If you're trying to accuse me of having extra info from being in a scum chat with Blue, you're not going to get very far.
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On March 20 2017 03:46 ritoky wrote:
people with good posts:
damdred
rayn
calix
people i don't feel anything much about:
xata
koshi
onegu
rels
people with bad posts:
eden
darthfoley
disfo
tumble
I'm going to break out of my intentional lurking to ask for those disformation posts. He hasn't been talked about much as of late.
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On March 20 2017 03:49 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 03:47 Calix wrote:On March 20 2017 03:46 ritoky wrote:
people with good posts:
damdred
rayn
calix
people i don't feel anything much about:
xata
koshi
onegu
rels
people with bad posts:
eden
darthfoley
disfo
tumble I'm going to break out of my intentional lurking to ask for those disformation posts. He hasn't been talked about much as of late. Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 07:35 disformation wrote:
so I'll probably look more into the votes tomorrow (reasoning/timing). lets see if I can find something.
outside of that I think looking into eden/tw might be a good thing to do. rayn vs damdy can maybe also be a thing. Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 07:42 disformation wrote:
guess it should have been: especially into tumblewood and eden.
eden had a real strange vote and tw and real strange eod.
I'm not sure I follow since those posts seem to square up with your current reads of Eden/ TW being scummy.
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I believe he is arguing that you said you'd do X after the lynch and proceeded to not do X despite being around.
I'd add that you are not doing a lot despite being around in general.
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To answer your earlier question, DF, I think both of the Finnish people are town. Rayn looks like he's dropped his flashlight while stuck in a tunnel and Xatalos held his ground better than I'd figure he would as scum. Want to reread it later just to be sure though.
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On March 20 2017 04:03 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 03:54 Xatalos wrote:On March 20 2017 03:51 Onegu wrote:
IRL reasons. May replace if things dont get better in the next 3 hours or so.
Rayn and DBS/Ritoky=Scum rayn/DBS/ritoky scumteam you mean....? How come? Ritoky and DBS same person. Rayn is also scum. DBS because of reasons I game already and Ritoky has done nothing that has changed my mind. Rayn feels off to me. Like his defense of DBS seemed off. Meh. not sure about this one though.
You might not have seen this but Rayn now scum-reads DBS/ ritoky (N1 development). Would recommend looking at that.
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On March 20 2017 04:10 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 04:05 Calix wrote:
To answer your earlier question, DF, I think both of the Finnish people are town. Rayn looks like he's dropped his flashlight while stuck in a tunnel and Xatalos held his ground better than I'd figure he would as scum. Want to reread it later just to be sure though. Where do you think the scummers lie at this point? Part of me really thinks Rels is one of them and he's just fucked off to avoid suspicion early
Excellent question because I don't know.
I think Eden is scummier than not but when I try and look for other scum-reads, I come up with nothing. I flip back and forth and have a million reasons to think people are town. The fact that no lynch seems satisfying is a red flag to me but since that would imply that the vets/ AFKers are scum, I don't know what to do about that -.-
Like you could just lynch AFK people but if we're in the scenario of multiple scum vets then that'll fuck us over like nothing else.
I am actually expecting this night kill to be informative early on for once.
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Unless they are boring and shank me, of course.
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On March 20 2017 04:20 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 04:14 ritoky wrote:On March 20 2017 04:00 darthfoley wrote:On March 20 2017 03:46 ritoky wrote:
people with good posts:
damdred
rayn
calix
people i don't feel anything much about:
xata
koshi
onegu
rels
people with bad posts:
eden
darthfoley
disfo
tumble Why is rayn town and Xata null and Damdred "good" when the majority of rayn's interactions today have been revolving around Xata/Damdred. If you think rayn is making good posts, and many of his posts have been about Xata AND Damdred, then surely you would seem to think Xata and/or Damdred is more likely to be scum, no? But you have Damdred and rayn as both "good posts" and Xata "null posts." How good can rayns posts be if they're all wrong, according to your reads? You can add yourself to the "bad posts" section because your categories are ass. Good posts and bad posts have nothing to do with alignment, especially when you're playing with veteran mafia players who are good at both alignments. I find this post scummy ? I mean we must play a different game. Just because someone orients the game as black vs white, doesn't mean the game is actually black vs white. You're implying that because someone is tunneling, the tunneler and the tunneled must be opposite alignments. More often than not they aren't. Further, being right is also not a requirement for being town, there exists this thing and it is called a donkey, please ask Koshi about it he is abundantly familiar. Once you get away from the realm of right vs wrong and black vs white, and stop trying to render the game into a state of binary decision making, you arrive at a place where you can judge peoples' process. Process and intent are vastly more important than people's actual conclusions much of the time, and that is what matters. I see the town process in rayn when he rails on 1 point for hours and tries to drive discussion back to his point that he views as unimpeachably scummy, I see his process when he tries to scum check me to get a reaction. These are town processes for him, which make his posts good. You look at damdred and, he unprompted, makes a poignant observation and asks an extremely pointed question at tumble and then pushes when the answer is unsatisfactory. Once again I see the process, the desire for more information and to drive the game forward in the direction he thinks is right. You have to remember that you've been playing this game for 36 hours and have 50 pages, I have been playing for like 10 and have 5 pages, so my opinions have not had the cultivating of others' opinions. However, my categories are fine. Because people making bad posts are a good place to begin looking for me. I used to be quite skilled at reading people who post bad shit, so I likely still am. Some of the terrible posters will likely become my top town reads who I will never vote on soon. Well, from my point of view rayn is just pushing townies for weak reasons and with huge, inappropriate force. Malongo was town, I'm town, and Damdred is at least more likely town than rayn - and certainly not scum for the reasons rayn proposed. He's not even really listening or changing his views. He pretty much ignored Damdred, ignored me several times (although at least he responded to me at times) and Malongo was more of an "lynch the AFKer". It fits the view that he's scum and pushing whatever may stick to mislynch, not so well with an "active and helpful town mindset".
It doesn't matters how many townies someone pushes. Townies can be very wrong. Townies can scum-read three townies for days on end. It's more how they do it, really.
The part where he totally ignores facts that don't fit his narrative is more concerning but I don't think that means he's really 'trying to ML you as scum' because he would have to know that people would pick up on him doing that and thus think he's less credible and persuasive.
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On March 20 2017 04:32 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 04:24 Calix wrote:On March 20 2017 04:20 Xatalos wrote:On March 20 2017 04:14 ritoky wrote:On March 20 2017 04:00 darthfoley wrote:On March 20 2017 03:46 ritoky wrote:
people with good posts:
damdred
rayn
calix
people i don't feel anything much about:
xata
koshi
onegu
rels
people with bad posts:
eden
darthfoley
disfo
tumble Why is rayn town and Xata null and Damdred "good" when the majority of rayn's interactions today have been revolving around Xata/Damdred. If you think rayn is making good posts, and many of his posts have been about Xata AND Damdred, then surely you would seem to think Xata and/or Damdred is more likely to be scum, no? But you have Damdred and rayn as both "good posts" and Xata "null posts." How good can rayns posts be if they're all wrong, according to your reads? You can add yourself to the "bad posts" section because your categories are ass. Good posts and bad posts have nothing to do with alignment, especially when you're playing with veteran mafia players who are good at both alignments. I find this post scummy ? I mean we must play a different game. Just because someone orients the game as black vs white, doesn't mean the game is actually black vs white. You're implying that because someone is tunneling, the tunneler and the tunneled must be opposite alignments. More often than not they aren't. Further, being right is also not a requirement for being town, there exists this thing and it is called a donkey, please ask Koshi about it he is abundantly familiar. Once you get away from the realm of right vs wrong and black vs white, and stop trying to render the game into a state of binary decision making, you arrive at a place where you can judge peoples' process. Process and intent are vastly more important than people's actual conclusions much of the time, and that is what matters. I see the town process in rayn when he rails on 1 point for hours and tries to drive discussion back to his point that he views as unimpeachably scummy, I see his process when he tries to scum check me to get a reaction. These are town processes for him, which make his posts good. You look at damdred and, he unprompted, makes a poignant observation and asks an extremely pointed question at tumble and then pushes when the answer is unsatisfactory. Once again I see the process, the desire for more information and to drive the game forward in the direction he thinks is right. You have to remember that you've been playing this game for 36 hours and have 50 pages, I have been playing for like 10 and have 5 pages, so my opinions have not had the cultivating of others' opinions. However, my categories are fine. Because people making bad posts are a good place to begin looking for me. I used to be quite skilled at reading people who post bad shit, so I likely still am. Some of the terrible posters will likely become my top town reads who I will never vote on soon. Well, from my point of view rayn is just pushing townies for weak reasons and with huge, inappropriate force. Malongo was town, I'm town, and Damdred is at least more likely town than rayn - and certainly not scum for the reasons rayn proposed. He's not even really listening or changing his views. He pretty much ignored Damdred, ignored me several times (although at least he responded to me at times) and Malongo was more of an "lynch the AFKer". It fits the view that he's scum and pushing whatever may stick to mislynch, not so well with an "active and helpful town mindset". It doesn't matters how many townies someone pushes. Townies can be very wrong. Townies can scum-read three townies for days on end. It's more how they do it, really. The part where he totally ignores facts that don't fit his narrative is more concerning but I don't think that means he's really 'trying to ML you as scum' because he would have to know that people would pick up on him doing that and thus think he's less credible and persuasive. He's gotten away with it several times already though. I basically debunked his Malongo case, and he actually pretty much gave up on 50% of his case, and stopped arguing about the rest, but it didn't affect his read in the slightest (even though both of his reasons were weak to begin with). Then I showed him how Damdred's question at the start could easily come from town, but he just repeated and repeated his argument that it makes Damdred sure scum without any real thought process. Now he puts Tumble as town and me as scum based on a totally incorrect narrative of how the EOD went down. And basically accuses me of being scum for doing pretty much the same thing as he himself did (accepting a slightly lower-priority lynch happening on D1 - Malongo for both of us).
I don't know how accurate your portrayal of events is so I plan to review that once there's a bit of distance/ time to reflect on it a bit. You two argue a lot so it's hard to remember the details after a while. Since his Damdred case is flawed, I agree with you on that point.
I do think that Tweedledumb is town though unless you thought that paranoia post was distancing or something. Dunno, looked really good on his part IMO. You'll probably say "oh but rayn keeps defending him, they're scum buddies" but that's a bit of a simplistic argument and nowhere near strong enough to make a pre-flip association. Not saying it's impossible but scummers don't tend to link themselves together THAT obviously.
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EPT
