I'm not sure if it's 100% necessary. Depends on who he is (scumread to any extent?) and if his checks are of any use.

It would make today easier though, I guess, if that happened.

Yes it is. Because if and when we hit mafia i am a cop too.

Maybe you're not scum after all, that was a terrible night kill.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 22 2017 23:19 GMT

#2432

It's Onegu and one of darthfoley and Tumblewood.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 22 2017 23:21 GMT

#2433

Okay i take back what i said about the cop claim. Cop doesn't need to claim but that only is true if people believe i am town, otherwise it's just terrible not to claim.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 00:23 GMT

#2436

I have to keep that in mind the next time i am gonna roll scum.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 00:35 GMT

#2438

idk. This game has been very hard for me to put any significant effort into in terms of anything other than just dumping out what i think for reasons that are not relevant to this game. It stopped when you joined the game.

Well i think this night kill makes Xatalos town. It's completely weird logic to kill Calix here because the only reasons it makes sense to do so is if it is a cophunt. The kill is also super weird because in case you happen to miss the cop you're suddenly in a situation where you absolutely lose if ANY of your teammates gets killed the next day. It's basically a high risk low reward kill. Even if you manage to shoot the cop then so what? Again if one of your mambers gets killed the next day you're in a situation where the Jailkeeper is suddenly a cop, a cop who also ignores the Godfather. Basically you have 100% chance to shoot a "better" blue than the cop and you take ????% chances to to shoot the other blue?!?!?

Calix' reads in this point don't matter for any smart mafia, because regardless of how right or wrong she is, you can't shoot her.

Xatalos does not do that. Koshi doesn't do that. I find it very hard to believe you would do that.
So i am left with Onegu and one of DF / Tumble.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 00:37 GMT

#2439

##vote Onegu

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 00:39 GMT

#2440

I am gonna sleep and when i get off work tomorrow post what i think.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 00:52 GMT

#2441

Yeah the cop needs to claim.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 01:33 GMT

#2444

Actually Xatalos can still be mafia.
Cop you really need to claim asap regardless of your checks. You really do.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 01:56 GMT

#2445

There are a couple of things that don't make any sense in any world for what i know of town!Xatalos.

I can even let it slide what i said before about his treatment of me but these things make me very very uncomfortable.

1) Xatalos calling AMG mafia. Now let's imagine a scenario where AMG is mafia. It's D2 and he subs into the game. There is a lynch wagon on his scumbuddy Eden. Now what is the route you take as scum? You call Damdred and Xatalos scum (that worked out well for me already on D1, right?). Then you call Eden town and hard-defend him without having any answer to the most important question of "why did ritoky die then" (when this HAS to be exactly why you killed ritoky, or at least 100% why the town thinks you killed him)? What are your %'s of making the play work? I'd say around 0. Obviously you can't know for sure, but that's what i would assume if i was AMG and mafia. Then, after deciding "wow this is my terrific strategy" you stay up most of the night discussing the game with me. For what? For that your scumbuddy gets lynched regardless almost all of the time? Does this sound like a good strategy for mafia? No it doesn't. It's a very terrible strategy because you cannot assume the outcome that arguing against the tide (when you actually WOULD KNOW Eden's alignment - you know you're bullshitting) makes people think you're town, in fact the assumption is the opposite. Somehow Xatalos thinks "pushed against Eden lynch" or "didn't help Eden getting lynched" makes AMG mafia, which is very on surfeace -level thinking and show no depth at all. Like seriously, read very carefully what i wrote here:

On March 22 2017 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

But you just said "AMG even pushed against Eden lynch" which has been your main reason for scumreading hi -> try to save Eden. And you agree with disformation in "AMG didnt really look like he was trying to get his scumread lynched".

Those two are 100% mutually exclusive.

2) Xatalos' actions at the EoD 1. This is what Xatalos is basically saying:
- "I didn't want to lynch an asset so i voted for my weaker scumread Malongo (and Tumble)"
- "I wasn't sure if rayn is scum so i didn't push hard on his lynch"
- "Then i actually thought rayn is scum and wanted to lynch him"

Like i can't see a world where all those things are true. First of all all the information on me had been there for hours. There is no way Xatalos comes to a conclusion 15min before the deadline that "rayn must be mafia and now we are going to lynch rayn" when he should have made the conclusion way earlier, especially since he claimed that Malongo is not his strongest scumread and i literally cannot be mafia with Malongo. The only explanation i can think of is that for whatever reason he stuck on Malongo first. Then he for whatever reason wanted to try some shenanigans on Tumble. This point he realizes "shit i have just called Tumble mafia ONLY if rayn is mafia so now i have made a mistake". Then he basically has no other option left than to try lynch me, because that's the only possible solution where he doesn't look terrible (if people don't figure it out). But that doesn't make sense either since he claimed he wasn't sure of his reads and "didn't want to lynch an asset" - which he now claims is a reason why he switched back to Malongo. The whole fucking thing doesn't make any sense unless the vote and push on me is nothing but damage control after a mistake.

If people don't understand this i will explain it with quotes tomorrow. I can't sleep so i decided to write this now for tomorrow.

3) this one here:

On March 23 2017 06:44 Xatalos wrote:
rayn, were you trying to roleblock someone? Who? Calix was kind of the obv-save so...

This is super terrible because no smart person should even for a second consider me not offensive jailing. Defensive jailing has 0% chance of success because i get 100% roleblocked. The only way i can do anything, or make anything work is if i hit exactly the roleblocker, before them, and exactly the roleblocker sends in the NK (so like 1% with dumb scum, but still better than 0%).

4) I also believe there is a chance with the Calix kill that Xatalos is playing for "lynch a townie -> call the blues mafia". The whole game he shows doubt on my alignment. Hell even after N1 he wants to wagon ME instead of Eden, because of "counter-wagon". What fucking counter-wagon?!?!? Again, why do you need counter-wagons when you think someone is mafia? I have to think about this more tomorrow but it is not totally out of question, in fact, based on Xatalos' play so far i think there is a fair chance of him thinking it can work or even be the best strategy.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 02:20 GMT

#2446

There are 2 people who can be the cop.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 02:22 GMT

#2447

Here's some 5min bluehunting to you. Koshi is cop.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 08:42 GMT

#2455

On March 23 2017 16:57 Xatalos wrote:
Those are reasons why you think I didn't think something completely through before posting, not reasons why I'm scum, rayn.

As scum I'm far more careful what I post and certainly don't post unfinished thoughts into the thread.

+ Show Spoiler +

3 doesn't even make any sense. I asked you who you offensively jailed, and again you refused to answer. I didn't ask who you defensively jailed. Besides why would this ever make me scum? Same with 4. I've clearly shifted away from doubting you to a major extent so who would push you then? I already explained 2 at some point. 1 is just your opinion vs mine.

I am not sure if i believe you.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 08:43 GMT

#2456

On March 23 2017 17:01 Xatalos wrote:
Besides many others suspected AMG as well, including Calix. Are they all scum too >.>

No. The difference is what i would expect from you and them.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 09:51 GMT

#2460

On March 23 2017 14:27 AMG wrote:
In your last post thought Xalatos was possibly townie with a few question marks.

Now you're trying to solve the game using Xata as confirmed scum to find the 3rd?

I would like to hear an answer to this too Tumble.
I'll read DF's answer to my question a bit later when i get home. I have to look at his whole filter to figure out if it makes sense or not.

Xatalos when you're that self-aware of your meta you have to understand i can't just take your answer on face value. I am not sure at all you wouldnt make that play i described as mafia. I am not sure at all WHY you would do things you did at EoD1. Sure you can say "i didnt think it through" and it "makes sense" but i am not sure if i believe that. If youre town lets scumhunt then and talk about what people ACTUALLY did and not just "they are acting like X and that means Y".

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

March 23 2017 10:09 GMT

#2462

I actually also need to reread stuff on disformation. I dont like the fact he does a lot of things (aka filters people and posts stuff on them) and always ends up back to "i need to filter X Y Z".