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##UNVOTE
This firewall tanked my mafia time last night and this morning  almost certainly going to be gone at EOD as well, wedding in ~3 hrs.
I think my case on Calix still has merit, but I can see no one was really interested, and I know I don't have time to push it through the more active players today, so I'm going to shelve it and make my vote more useful.
On March 19 2017 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 05:15 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:57 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:
I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote:On March 17 2017 17:58 Calix wrote:
Explain scum motivation for calling multiple people town this early on and stating that I do not want to lynch them today. I'd like to see the inevitable bullshit which is sure to come. 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you? Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes. He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it. So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null. Like if Eden says this he literally must think my case is crap because my case on Malongo is based on something he found slightly townie. He doesn't think Damdred (who i am voting for) is mafia. Xatalos (who was and is my third scumread) is his top townread. Why am i town in Eden's eys? That's basically everything i have done in this game, called these three people out.
I disagree with your reads all the time lol. I've learned not to let that affect my read on you. My heuristics might be outdated, but when you're mafia you tend to be disproportionately forceful in tone compared to the strength of your argument. You'll push speculative reasons as though they were absolute fact and effectively bully-pulpit the thread and shove people into lining up behind you. When you're town, whether or not I agree with your direction in the thread, I at least get the sense that you're treating your arguments with the respect they deserve instead of demanding an undue amount of it from the other players.
I think your play this game has been much more in line with the town description than the mafia description. I bet you'll even agree. So even though I don't like your Malongo case or Xatalos scumread, I can still easily be comfortable calling you town.
As for Damdred, I didn't say that I don't think he's mafia, just that he didn't make an impression one way or another. I'm still not really prepared to say that he isn't, either. Just seems like he's said a lot of words and made a lot of posts, but very little has made a strong impression either way. I'll go and reread his filter and try to develop a more crystallized opinion of him for you though, since that's your wagon for today and I trust your motivations.
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People I wouldn't lynch today:
disformation
Koshi
rayn
Xatalos
Eden
That list is way shorter than I thought. No bueno
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On March 19 2017 03:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Actually this isn't as good as i first thought it looks. There are nothing but speculative reasons in mafia especially in D1 and i always push my reasoning as a fact regardless of alignment because i don't see why i (or anyone) should trust a read the person in themselves doesn't even look like balieving on.
I'm not explaining well and I'll probably have to go pull quotes from past games to illustrate it, which I'm not sure I have time to do. I guess it's the difference between an officer walking a suspect to the courthouse vs an officer beating somebody with a nightstick to get them to go where he wants them. Both are absolutely sure they're right, but the first one has faith in the town and the process to get it right and doesn't try to bully people into lining up, where the second one is worried, almost paranoid, that he'll lose control of the town if he isn't exerting maximum force at all times.
If that didn't make sense, I'm 3 glasses deep and counting and it made sense to me so fuck it.
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On March 19 2017 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am fine withthat as for now. Although i don't know what i would do as mafia since when i started playing again (in my finished games) i haven't been mafia and i don't really care about driving conversation. I just dump down my reads and then people believe it or not and i don't care.
All in all my townplay now is very different from what it used to be let's say 2yrs ago.
so wait, are you telling me that my heuristics are outdated and probably useless now due to a long break?
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On March 19 2017 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can you name the games so i can see it for myself.
The love themed one that Holyflare did a while back. You got mad at me because I went deep on a really dumb power role based scumread of you. I'm pretty sure the read itself was trash lol. But you were mafia and seemed vastly worried out of proportion to the threat that I actually posed to you, and I'm pretty sure I've never seen it in any town games that we've played together, except when people made you really mad and they probably deserved it tbh
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##VOTE: Damdred
let's see what happens 
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On March 19 2017 03:30 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2017 03:01 Eden1892 wrote:##UNVOTEThis firewall tanked my mafia time last night and this morning almost certainly going to be gone at EOD as well, wedding in ~3 hrs. I think my case on Calix still has merit, but I can see no one was really interested, and I know I don't have time to push it through the more active players today, so I'm going to shelve it and make my vote more useful. On March 19 2017 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 18 2017 05:15 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 05:10 Calix wrote:On March 18 2017 04:57 Eden1892 wrote:On March 18 2017 04:23 darthfoley wrote:
I'd like your overall reads when you have them Eden I don't have a lot yet and I'm sure outside of Calix, none of it is interesting. Top town is Xatalos followed shortly by rayn and Koshi. Top scum is Calix. Damdred has said a lot without a lot jumping out at me one way or another. I don't recall having this much difficulty discerning any feeling about his alignment when he's one of the more active posters in the thread before. Not really sure what to make of it yet, and to be fair to him, my relative disconnectedness from this game compared to past ones on here is probably to blame. I think disformation is lock town if I'm right about Calix. Pretty sure Calix is scum and spewed disfo town. Loved this post by disfo as well: On March 17 2017 18:05 disformation wrote:On March 17 2017 17:58 Calix wrote:
Explain scum motivation for calling multiple people town this early on and stating that I do not want to lynch them today. I'd like to see the inevitable bullshit which is sure to come. 1) Push someone weak so you have a scum read 2) get lazy and give the rest lazy town reads 3) "look how much work i already did" if shit happens you can still easily backtrack, since its early and the trs where fairly weak in the first place I don't get the Malongo wagon having so many votes. He's a giant blank right now and it's weird that a wagon on a straight null poster got so much traction so quick. Makes me think that there were multiple mafia driving the early discussion and managed to get attention centered on a townie with weak/no thread presence. The alternative is that Malongo is mafia and his team can't do anything to stop the town, in which case this game is easy and I'm not worried anyway. That's about all I got that I think matters right now. If you're already using pre-flip associations and getting tunnel vision re: me before anyone has even flipped then your reads are going to be so off it's not even funny. What do you actually think of Malongo himself? Why exactly he is null to you? Why wouldn't he be null? This is a weird concept, since people are null by default, but here goes. He's null because he hasn't done anything relevant or important yet. He said something interesting about not liking the speed at which Damdred and disformation wagons grew. I like these kinds of observations, all else equal, but he didn't do anything with it and his vote on ray had no serious motivation behind it. So the sum of his actions is... nothing. He made a potentially interesting observation and did nothing to make it actually interesting. He voted for some guy for no particular reason. It's a bunch of air. Null. Like if Eden says this he literally must think my case is crap because my case on Malongo is based on something he found slightly townie. He doesn't think Damdred (who i am voting for) is mafia. Xatalos (who was and is my third scumread) is his top townread. Why am i town in Eden's eys? That's basically everything i have done in this game, called these three people out. I disagree with your reads all the time lol. I've learned not to let that affect my read on you. My heuristics might be outdated, but when you're mafia you tend to be disproportionately forceful in tone compared to the strength of your argument. You'll push speculative reasons as though they were absolute fact and effectively bully-pulpit the thread and shove people into lining up behind you. When you're town, whether or not I agree with your direction in the thread, I at least get the sense that you're treating your arguments with the respect they deserve instead of demanding an undue amount of it from the other players. I think your play this game has been much more in line with the town description than the mafia description. I bet you'll even agree. So even though I don't like your Malongo case or Xatalos scumread, I can still easily be comfortable calling you town. As for Damdred, I didn't say that I don't think he's mafia, just that he didn't make an impression one way or another. I'm still not really prepared to say that he isn't, either. Just seems like he's said a lot of words and made a lot of posts, but very little has made a strong impression either way. I'll go and reread his filter and try to develop a more crystallized opinion of him for you though, since that's your wagon for today and I trust your motivations. I can kind of agree with how you're metaing rayn - but are you sure about the conclusion that he's giving his reads the "appropriate amount of force"? To me it's felt like he's pushed them with a little too much confidence compared to their strengths.
I didn't explain this well. When I say "force" I'm not referring to confidence - ray always has this in spades.
What I mean is that he tends as mafia to treat people like total morons if they dissent from him, whereas you can see here that he's not being degrading or demeaning toward people who disagree
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On March 19 2017 03:41 Calix wrote:
Eden, why do you keep talking about a meta-read on a strong town-read of yours instead of engaging with your biggest scum-read in the thread? O.o
Cuz I have no impulse control and the idea of trying to validate years-old meta in this game was interesting.
Also I'm a few in and have no idea what I'm doing.
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +i'm also second-guessing my scumread on you but i'm being lazy and don't want to reassess it too hard and lose all of what i perceived to be my progress this game
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Why did we lynch Malongo? I guess it's "safe" but he was perfect null.
I voted Damdred because:
1. Calix wasn't a reasonable wagon and tbh I was starting to second guess myself anyway
2. I didn't see any compelling reason to vote Malongo. It's safe but fuck that, town doesn't win making safe plays unless the Mafia sucks.
3. Damdred still hasn't done anything that made me think he couldn't be Mafia. That's hypocritical compared to Malongo, except that I know I can expect more from Damdred and I can't know to do so from Malongo.
4. My vote for Damdred put the wagons at 5-3 which gave the Mafia a chance to save Malongo if he were scum; gave town a second wagon to consider, and I thought if the EOD were more active we'd get more meaningful info from that with a real 2nd option.
WITH THAT SAID, I apologize for not actually returning. I sorely underestimated my wireless carrier's range, Mississippi's infrastructure and the entertainment level of this wedding. I solemnly swear not to make any of those mistakes again, especially expecting positive outcomes from Mississippi's infratstructure. A truly egregious error to be certain
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Sorry for fucking off, my ISP killed my internet access from Sunday to this morning. GGs, promise not to disappear out of nowhere next time.
GL mafia get fucked town~
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EPT
