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On December 10 2016 10:04 Chairman Ray wrote:
Still catching up on the thread, but here's a couple things I want answered:
@cakepie: Why did you fakeclaim?
@NeverUnlucky: At the time, 2 cops have claimed. Why were you under the suspicion that one of them might be VT, and why did you vote on TW, despite claiming the possibility that he's VT?
Notice btw CR isn't posting anything like this anymore. Suddenly have no suspicions of NU? After all you did was swear up and down he's mafia all game?
scum scum scum
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On December 11 2016 00:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:
ExO:
You say you are 100% behind TW's claim. How confident in % are you in your reads of me, Ray and CP?
How do you explain TW scum-reading his green-check the entirety of day 1 and making cases on 3 of the 5 other players, starting with his green-check and not doing a case on who he scum-read and ended up checking?
Similarly to CP, day 1 you said that I could be scum, but never really got in detail there. I found it suspicious that you said that you wish that I were here more when I had been pretty active before that day, yet, you had never engaged me. It felt like a back-stab ie you TR me when I'm here and start discussing the possiblity of me being scum when I'm away. Why did/do you think I could be scum?
Please tell me why you think CP is scum.
I'm 99% confident that TW is cop, and 99% confident CR is scum. I'd say about 85% on Cakepie being scum, and about 70% sure you're town. The math isn't perfect, but it's where I'm at. Right now literally only TW/CR matters.
I have no idea why TW would start off saying he thinks his green check is scum. But he did breadcrumb him as town, and he bread crumbed his next check. It doesn't make sense to me.
And again Day 1 I wrote the impressions I got as I read the thread. What motivation would I have to "backstab" you as scum? I wasn't trying to push you when you were afk at all. I find it a bit odd that right now you seem to care a lot about what people thought/think about you. But that's something to consider for another time.
Cakepie is trying to talk about all sorts of shit to get you off the wrong track. Right now the only 2 candidates even worth considering are CR and TW. One of them is fake claiming cop, and is mafia. We'll talk about Cakepies fake claim (which is not town motivated in the slightest) later. We should be focusing on CR/TW. Does CR's claim look convincing to you? because it doesn't to me. TW's filter length, and attempts to get people to listen convince me he isn't lying. Combined with that fact that CR/Cakepie tried to get a lynch going on a day when a lynch does not favor town, and TW's clever breadcrumbing convinces me that TW isn't the liar here.
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On December 08 2016 20:39 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 18:52 ExO_ wrote:
I'm asking you to explain why you stopped town tunneling me. Just announcing it serves no purpose for town. It doesn't help us in any way. What town motivation do you have for just announcing it without explaining Announcing it serves the purpose that people don't start acting all surprised and worked up when they perceive me 'suddenly' get all up in your face. Cuz, y'know, some folks can't spot hints or read between the lines. Gotta spell it all out. Not explaining it now has a town motivation of denying information to scum. I don't see a need to explain everything now and give scum time to ponder over it. Town doesn't need my full explanation today (game D1, not real time), but will have it by tomorrow (that is to say, D2.) when it matters.
I really should focus on CR but I want to point this out now. Cakepie used this to claim breadcrumbing for his cop claim. But he's said that he's VT fake claiming.....so what was this post about then? Tell me which alignment would be motivated to announce that they've stopped town tunneling another player because: "Announcing it serves the purpose that people don't start acting all surprised and worked up when they perceive me 'suddenly' get all up in your face"? Which aligntment cares more about how they are perceived than about finding scum? Which alignment would want to deny information to town ?
This kind of post I read as I filter dive Cake convinces me more and more that he's the 2nd scum with CR. The whole bullshit story about fake claiming cop to bait out shots at a time when scum won't even have time to react is garbage as hell. On a day when we're at lylo what kind of VT player fake claims cop? And if he was baiting out shots why didn't he IMMEDIATELY rescind?
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On December 08 2016 10:56 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 10:19 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 07 2016 16:26 Chairman Ray wrote:
TW and NU ignore the scenario that mafia fakeclaims - Mafia aren't fakeclaiming I did touch that topic actually : On December 06 2016 09:33 NeverUnlucky wrote:
I agree that cop should claim at day start, and I also think that the medic should claim. NO VT EVER CC's. Force 1 on 1 with mafia or have up to 3 confirmed town if cop gets a green check who lives through the night. So yes, I think it's very possible that they were just speaking casually on whatever was at the top of their mind, but given that they decided to math out a very narrow scenario without much reasoning, and that scenario happened exactly as they assumed, it seems like a really big coincidence. I am confused here. A blue died last night which is not the scenario tw or I described N0. Can you clarify what the coincidence is? My problem was that you and TW totally flushed out the scenario where both medic and cop are alive and go uncountered, and everything else is handy dandy, while leaving a very brief mention or ignoring entirely all other scenarios. Whether or not Koshi flipped blue is not important given that mafia didn't know what he was. Given that it was Koshi dying, I would give it a higher chance that the mafia weren't trying to bluesnipe at all.
He's literally saying what the scum team are thinking
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On December 09 2016 19:04 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2016 14:11 ExO_ wrote:
#164 TW hard town reading me --> Scum trying to buddy me because I'm town. Other players I think are town think I might be scum because I wanted cop to reveal (because I thought we had to lynch today). However they think I might be scum faking it. TW isn't even considering this possibilty. #164
#170 TW looks better with this post at least. Hes at least trying to get people to talk
#173 Don't like hopeless1der's post here.
#180 NU trying to redirect Cakepie onto TW. Could see motive for this from both scum and town persepectives
#182 In answer to NU's question here I didn't think TW was trying to buddy him. He did. I don't know what else he wants me to explain
#185 this is gonna sound weird, but TW saying he's trying to make a scum case on NU instead of his town read makes no sense to me and sounds like the thing a scum player would do....which is why I think it makes him look more town. Under suspicion I don't think a scum player would just blantantly say things like this. Instead he reminds me a bit of myself getting scumread as VT in other TL Mafia games and trying to convince players I am town; subsequently the veterans turning everything I say into reasons why it makes me scum. idk When I've skimmed the thread I haven't liked TW, but the more I read in depth the more I question the idea of him being scum.
#186 Cakepie trying to say I'm not forthcoming with information, when she literally wouldn't say information earlier saying "she didn't wanna give information to scum" Fuck that, its completely ridiculous. Misconstrues me considering the possibility that maybe I'm scum reading TW too hard b/c I'm trusting cakepie, into somehow I'm trying to blame her for something? tbh this whole post just annoys the shit out of me.
#203 Chairman Ray literally saying he's only been pushing TW and NU. He's literally admitting to not considering or caring about anything else just pushing TW and NU
#205 Cakepie should go read my dota mafia posts, and should look at the last game we played. When I'm town I usually just post whatever comes to mind. I don't sit and craft careful posts. When I'm scum I'm much more careful about what I post. You getting my stream of consciousness and seeing me move around on my reads is because I'm trying to sift through the information and am doubting myself as I go. Do you honestly think I'm faking this as scum? I have trouble believing that you do
#213 fuck off
#215 hmmmmm. I don't like what H1D is saying here. But if he's scum, why not go ahead and vote? I want to say that he's scum not wanting to be the 3rd vote, but it would no longer matter if he's the 3rd vote if town dies today anyway. Ugh. I don't like anything H1d is saying and I think it's affecting my perception of him
#217 Alright if H1D was scum and TW was town he would jump on the vote here....upon closer look it seems like CR was only the 2nd vote here...so working this out and seeing that H1D did later join this wagon (I'm assuming it was indeed at 3 votes) that if TW is town then either both scum were voting here, or TW is indeed scum.
#228 TW is trying really hard in this thread against a lot of people. It's really making me feel like he's town, but if he was he should probably be dead, or we have some combination of cakepie/H1D/CR as scum.
#231-233. Okay my assumptions were wrong yet again. wtf just happened here. H1D hops on after CR/Cakepie unvoted?
#234 CR still tunnelling NU very hard. I wish CR would consider some other possibility. To me he looks like he's more concerned with having presented a case and pushed it, rather than solving the game.
Haven't read TW's case's yet, but I think he's trying far too hard to be scum.
CR is super concerned with tunneling TW/NU. He cares more about sticking to those 2 reads than considering anything else. He started off kinda weak on them, and has considered nothing since then. CR is scum.
ExO, I don't think your read on me is fair, and to some extent, it's my fault for hunting scum on my own rather than being engaged with town. I think that you are town, so I will explain to you exactly what my thought process was. I really need you and all remaining town to trust me, or at least take my reads seriously, because we all need to vote together tomorrow to lynch the mafia. Where I'm at right now is that TW and NU are the mafia, you are town, cakepie is town, hopeless is town, and obviously I am town. I have mainly pushed onto TW and NU because there are only two mafia, and it's most definitely those two. I think we can all agree that TW is mafia. I pushed onto NU many times and he's given me shoddy answers the first few times, and he's literally disappeared now and hasn't responded to anything else I posted. I posted a case on him that I want him to respond to, and I want all the town to consider as well, and so far, neither has happened. Also, nobody else has given a strong case against anybody else. Do you see why I have no reason to get off of those two? I haven't pushed much on anybody else besides TW and NU, but that doesn't mean I haven't been considering or caring about them. As for you, hopeless, and cake, there's a lot I like about your play, and a lot that I don't like, but there's little that I can point to and say "hmm, this play is really advancing the scum agenda, and scum would instinctively do this". I don't post townreads or speculative posts on people because me not being able to scumread someone doesn't mean someone else can't. If someone convinces me of a better option than TW or NU, I'm willing to reconsider. I should probably be more actively engaging with people, and that's my bad. I also feel that I'm being singled out for tunneling. If you look at other people's filters, Hopeless has been tunneling only on TW, cakepie has mostly been on TW and you, and you haven't been aggressive enough to even be considered for tunneling. So besides the fact that I literally said that I'm tunneling onto TW and NU, singling me out seems a little biased.
Read this post. CR is more concerned with how he is being perceived. Doesn't think the read on him is fair, thinks he is being unfairly singled out. That singled out part is the thing that really bugs me. It's like he wants me to go after the other players and just not focus on him.
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On December 10 2016 09:54 Chairman Ray wrote:
Ok, I'm the cop. Cakepie and Tumblewood are fake.
I checked Koshi N0, which was why I didn't come out.
I checked TW N1, and he's mafia.
##Vote: Tumblewood
Catching up on the thread now.
Why is he not screaming that cakepie is mafia too. If he was the cop he'd be screaming both of them are liars and are the scum team together. But he doesn't. Just TW. Why is he only caring about TW here? Does the fact that cakepie lied about being cop not matter to him?
I don't believe it. I'm so certain CR is scum here.
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On December 11 2016 05:21 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 04:30 NeverUnlucky wrote:
It's not about obeying me, it's about reaching a consensus on who's cop and who's mafia. If you believe that CRay is the cop (That his claim makes sense, not because you TR him), you should most definitely show me why. I'm not liking that you've dismissed all the points I've made on Ray since D1 and are now deciding to sheep me. After fucking up with the fakeclaim, I started doubting myself and my reads. To the point that I actually extended good faith to TW and let NU's reasoning contaminate mine and willing to go try scum reading Ray. But ExO's yelling is my wake up call. My reads are correct and my mission is to help NU untunnel Ray and lynch TW.
About the only true thing you've said.
Why do you believe CR's cop claim?
I don't know why I'm bothering even, you and CR are scum and I get it's your job to lie and try to convince town to lynch other town. It's hard for me to not get loud and call you a liar non-stop.
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and if CR was cop where are his breadcrumbs? where is he trying to convince people that TW is fake claiming? If I was the cop and somebody fake claimed I wouldn't post a total of 6 times after my claim and that's it.
He's not making any effort at all. This is so easy it's a joke. I'm surprised cakepie hasn't started saying things like "maybe I'm wrong, I'm doubting myself, maybe CR really is scum" because CR isn't even trying anymore.
I think town has this won. CR/Cakepie scum team
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On December 11 2016 05:26 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 04:59 ExO_ wrote:On December 11 2016 00:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:
ExO:
You say you are 100% behind TW's claim. How confident in % are you in your reads of me, Ray and CP?
How do you explain TW scum-reading his green-check the entirety of day 1 and making cases on 3 of the 5 other players, starting with his green-check and not doing a case on who he scum-read and ended up checking?
Similarly to CP, day 1 you said that I could be scum, but never really got in detail there. I found it suspicious that you said that you wish that I were here more when I had been pretty active before that day, yet, you had never engaged me. It felt like a back-stab ie you TR me when I'm here and start discussing the possiblity of me being scum when I'm away. Why did/do you think I could be scum?
Please tell me why you think CP is scum. [...] And again Day 1 I wrote the impressions I got as I read the thread. What motivation would I have to "backstab" you as scum? I wasn't trying to push you when you were afk at all. I find it a bit odd that right now you seem to care a lot about what people thought/think about you. But that's something to consider for another time. It's not because the read is about me that I'm asking for the 'why'. It's because you threw out a 'possible' mafia read in the thread and left it there with no explanation and never referred to it later. Idc how others have been perceiving me re: I didn't even respond to Ray's/H1's cases/reasons as to why they thought I was scum. It's just not right for you nor CP to call me scum with nothing to show for. But you're dodging the question re: Why did/do you think I could be scum?
Because I don't have perfect information, and because I have a history in mafia games of completely misreading people. Look at touhou mafia I was sure that Skynx couldn't be scum and he was. I don't think you are scum, but it's not impossible. The longer this thread goes on the less and less I think you are scum but I cannot know for sure
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On December 11 2016 05:28 cakepie wrote:
NU. Remember these weird things we both noticed?
- TW goes from mylo to a plan for D3
- ExO "unwillingly" tries to make a scumread on TW, but couches it in language that blames me
Can you make a single case on TW that doesn't rely on association? And I never blamed you, I said I was doubting my read because I was trusting yours too much (because I Thought you were Calix from the last mafia game)
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On December 11 2016 05:31 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 05:29 ExO_ wrote:On December 11 2016 05:26 NeverUnlucky wrote:On December 11 2016 04:59 ExO_ wrote:On December 11 2016 00:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:
ExO:
You say you are 100% behind TW's claim. How confident in % are you in your reads of me, Ray and CP?
How do you explain TW scum-reading his green-check the entirety of day 1 and making cases on 3 of the 5 other players, starting with his green-check and not doing a case on who he scum-read and ended up checking?
Similarly to CP, day 1 you said that I could be scum, but never really got in detail there. I found it suspicious that you said that you wish that I were here more when I had been pretty active before that day, yet, you had never engaged me. It felt like a back-stab ie you TR me when I'm here and start discussing the possiblity of me being scum when I'm away. Why did/do you think I could be scum?
Please tell me why you think CP is scum. [...] And again Day 1 I wrote the impressions I got as I read the thread. What motivation would I have to "backstab" you as scum? I wasn't trying to push you when you were afk at all. I find it a bit odd that right now you seem to care a lot about what people thought/think about you. But that's something to consider for another time. It's not because the read is about me that I'm asking for the 'why'. It's because you threw out a 'possible' mafia read in the thread and left it there with no explanation and never referred to it later. Idc how others have been perceiving me re: I didn't even respond to Ray's/H1's cases/reasons as to why they thought I was scum. It's just not right for you nor CP to call me scum with nothing to show for. But you're dodging the question re: Why did/do you think I could be scum? Because I don't have perfect information, and because I have a history in mafia games of completely misreading people. Look at touhou mafia I was sure that Skynx couldn't be scum and he was. I don't think you are scum, but it's not impossible. The longer this thread goes on the less and less I think you are scum but I cannot know for sure wtf that's the definition of an empty read
It's not an empty read, its the opposite of my actual read. I think you are town, but you're asking me why I think you're scum.
If I wasn't so sure that CR/Cakepie are the scum team I'd be pretty wtf about why you are even asking about this right now.
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On December 11 2016 05:30 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 05:26 NeverUnlucky wrote:
But you're dodging the question re: Why did/do you think I could be scum? ExO has been dodging questions all game long. - Why is TW town in #98 - Why he doesn't think TW buddied NU - etc etc. in my case which I hope you've read. He's still dodging.
What does this have to do with CR being cop?
only TW or CR is dying today, thats the only possibility. There's no way any reasonable person will believe the low effort CR is the real cop over TW here. TW hasn't played perfectly but nobody ever does. I'll take his posts and his effort over CR's trash any day
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On December 11 2016 05:34 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 05:31 ExO_ wrote:On December 11 2016 05:28 cakepie wrote:
NU. Remember these weird things we both noticed?
- TW goes from mylo to a plan for D3
- ExO "unwillingly" tries to make a scumread on TW, but couches it in language that blames me Can you make a single case on TW that doesn't rely on association? And I never blamed you, I said I was doubting my read because I was trusting yours too much (because I Thought you were Calix from the last mafia game) Sure. The earliest one is still - TW goes from mylo to a plan for D3 Scumslip. Trying to fake activity by discussing plan together with NU. Goes into blind enumeration mode. Forgets about mylo which he obviously knows.
Trying to fake activity? TW has a SIX page filter, CR has two.
And how is going from mylo to a plan for D3 (which I'm not sure this is what happened, but for the sake of refuting your argument lets say it did) confirming him as scum?
And more importantly:
What has CR done to make you believe his cop claim?
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##Vote: ChairmanRay
I'm going to go ahead and do this, I don't see any more reason to wait. If you have a reason why we shouldn't vote already let me know soon NU, before I go play more PoE or dota.
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CR has to be scum. otherwise scum would immediately hammer now.
I know you cannot know for sure that I am town NU, though I would hope I've proven myself by now. But the fact that you aren't immediately hammering, and CP isn't hammering confirms to me CR is scum without a shadow of a doubt. I'm no longer 99% sure, I'm 100% sure CR is scum
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On December 11 2016 05:52 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 05:47 ExO_ wrote:
CR has to be scum. otherwise scum would immediately hammer now. Unless, of course, TW and ExO are scum. Duh.
I think turning this into a 2v2 was a mistake. CR is so clearly scum, and you're going down with him. I guess the play tonight will be to kill me then try to convince NU of something?
If NU is the scum team with CR, NU played a fucking great game. I cannot see this being the scenario I will be blown away if its not CP/CR.
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On December 11 2016 06:03 cakepie wrote:
Cakepie options. Convince NU that:
TW is scum individually
ExO is scum individually
TW+ExO are scum together
cake is town
Ray is town
feel free to cross out any others.
I'd like you to convince me how Ray is town. It's impossible, he's scummy as hell, but I'd like to hear how you're going to justify your scum buddy as town.
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On December 11 2016 06:07 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 06:06 ExO_ wrote:
I'd like you to convince me how Ray is town. It's impossible, he's scummy as hell, but I'd like to hear how you're going to justify your scum buddy as town. Do me a favor and STFU.
No. You're scum, and you're cornered, and you know it. You'd really like it if I just stopped talking but I'm not going to.
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On December 11 2016 06:12 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 06:03 cakepie wrote:
Cakepie options. Convince NU that:
TW is scum individually
ExO is scum individually
TW+ExO are scum together
cake is town
Ray is town
feel free to cross out any others. ? Your prime goal right now is to convince me that TW is scum and Ray's town. Idc about ExO nor you for today, neither of you are today's lynch. The lynch is always between TW and CRay if that wasn't obvious. Show nested quote +On December 11 2016 05:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 11 2016 05:52 cakepie wrote:On December 11 2016 05:47 ExO_ wrote:
CR has to be scum. otherwise scum would immediately hammer now. Unless, of course, TW and ExO are scum. Duh. I think turning this into a 2v2 was a mistake. CR is so clearly scum, and you're going down with him. I guess the play tonight will be to kill me then try to convince NU of something? If mafia kill you over TW tomorrow night, they are fucking retarded and they lose the game because Ray's lynch confirms TW as cop, and his presence in lylo guarantees a town win.
Oh yeah. Sorry I think this is the first TL mafia game as VT that I'm going to win where I felt like I played a decent role in helping town win and I can just see me getting killed before we can actually see the victory screen
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NU we know that between CR and TW there is a scum. This is a fact, there's no debating it. And yet what has CP spent the entire time doing? Trying to convince you that I'm scum. He's yet to come in and demonstrate how CR is town. And where the hell is CR in all of this? CP is trying his damnedest I'll give him that but CR is the clear scum here. Please don't throw the game because CP talked your ear off
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EPT
