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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 07:19 NeverUnlucky wrote: 0 response to a wall post. Nice, nice. What's ATE? Appeal to Emotion. Your push is contradicting your play and reasoning last game. End of discussion. Continue shitting up the thread with your temper tantrums instead of doing anything productive like I told you to do. I'm sure that'll help your case. Instead of whining, do anything else. Leave the thread if you're that much of a cry-baby. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 07:26 NeverUnlucky wrote: So you're meta-reading me for not playing like last game. HIPOCRISY MUCH? I have 0 intent on contributing anything right now, and I don't think that'll change in the following days. Policy lynch. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
He's extremely unfocused when he's making his points. It's hard to infer what his actual case is. He narrates their filters instead of making targeted points about why his target is scummy. He also likes to waffle on and doubt himself. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 07:39 mahrgell wrote: I told you earlier, that I prefer to play a more distanced style. Yes, I will usually explain possible outs too. From what I read in Cruise and Dota this seems to be unusual here, as everyone loves tunneling down and ignore everything that goes against their current opinion. No, I don't know the scumteam day 1. But I think I also made sufficiently clear that at this point, I have 2 clear wagons I would like to push, and in which priority. And if you see me changing my opinion, just ask me for my reasoning. Right now nothing Foreman has posted since I posted my case against him has swayed me the slightest. NU hasn't answered me yet and is only my secondary choice right now anyway. So if I change vote, one of 3 things must happen: a) they make a very convincing argument, but not seeing that now b) someone makes himself even more scummy, but this won't remove my doubts about them c) we are close to deadline and my priority choices are not happening and I have a preference in a wagon race. About making more targeted points/narrated filters: What you wish here? More quotes? If this helps you, I can do that. If you have any advice on improving my readability, I'm all ear and will try to implement it. I can't claim years of forum Mafia. IRL things are different. :D I don't want more quotes. I think that you lack focus when casing your scum-reads so you should focus more on the quality of the few points you make > quantity, if that makes sense. It's like the difference between making an analytical argument about one post over posting one-liners in response to every single post in someone's filter. You lean towards the latter in my opinion which makes it hard to relate to your thought process; it's easy to get lost. Valid first paragraph. It's a viable strategy to consider multiple wagons. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 07:53 NeverUnlucky wrote: I think you're town. I was quoting a bad ExO post aka I dislike that he's so quick to call you 100% scum. Somehow I don't believe you. How is going "this" the same as saying "I dislike that he calls Calix 100% scum"? Oh wait. "This" is the same thing as "+1" Furthermore, you are still voting for me. Correct me if I'm wrong here but given your numerous contradictions, I doubt I am. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 07:59 NeverUnlucky wrote: You interpreting my posts differently makes me contradict myself. haHAA. Here, do this little exercise for me: Point out 2 contradictions I've made this game. Apparently I have made numerous, it should not be too hard. Yes, I am still voting you despite town-reading you. Deal with it. How does saying "this" translate to "I disagree with this post" in any context? | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 08:04 NeverUnlucky wrote: I never have used it before in any context. I'm sure I could find evidence of you contradicting this, but it's not worth the effort. I'm going to end this discussion for now so that something else can happen. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
Skynx is weird. He complains but offers no real solutions. He calls the pushes subjective (illogical considering that this is a mafia game) but has nothing of his own. In short, he's passive. When he's pressed by Foreman, all he does is say "this shitty wagon on Calix is bad" (with no elaboration) and then buggers off. darthfoley's post isn't anything amazing. I didn't feel like I gleaned any new insight from his notes, but somehow I still liked his post anyway. I'm probably being overly critical of an opening post, however. ExO's filter is worse than I remember it being. Downgraded to null pending further information. Haven't finished with mahrgell/ Foreman but I find them confusing. I find the former to be quite sincere with his confusing posts though so he might be town. I haven't hated anything that TT's posted so he can go in the lean-town pile for now. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
In any case, I'm going to have a hell of a time reading them given variations in playing style, site meta, etc. As it stands, I think one of them has a higher than random chance of being scum. I just can't tell who. It's not as if my reasoning for thinking that they could be TvS is solid either. It's only because I don't find myself agreeing with their points against each other. I don't even remember most of their argument and I've just finished reading their filters. I remember them being opposites to each other though. mahrgell's uncertain, likes to consider multiple options. Foreman is given to brevity and making confident reads. Interesting as a dynamic to say the least. Given this, I invite everyone to filter-dive these two and give their opinions. If any of the low posters are stuck on what to talk about then this is a grand topic  | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
Thanks. Don't respond to this either. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
I think you make some valid points with mahrgell. I can agree that he is taking the role of Thread Police with regards to the arguments taking place in the thread and that he has been somewhat lacking in initiative when it comes to giving reads. (I believe his Foreman argument is his most substantial original contribution to date) I third the stance that I am more townie than mahrgell is although I am inherently biased there  Jokes aside, I'm finding it hard to see anything incriminating in your posts as it stands so you might be town as well. I'll see how you take to the rest of the thread but I hope I'm right. Might be an easy game. On November 03 2016 09:02 darthfoley wrote: I've noticed that mahrgell is asking a lot of questions, especially of NU and Calix-- basically telling them to stop attacking each other and talk about other people. I also noticed that he hasn't done this at all himself, he's only talked about Foreman and NU; with the former, his case seemed pretty meh to me, except for #3. The only problem is that even this isn't an original point. I pointed it out, and a few others. He even admits that this point was taken from other people. Also don't like how mahrgell keeps giving himself outs. I understand it's D1, but his posts are littered with him. If he thinks it would be easier knowing some meta, I expect him to go snooping and answer his question. In terms of Foreman: I like this post. I was also puzzled with this progression from NU. For me, I believe that the wishy-washy half step in, half step out approach of mahrgell is more scum indicative than Calix's tunneling. As of now, I like Foreman better than I like mahrgell. The only thing I have taken issue with so far in Foreman's game is his early dismissal of Calix, and his open admission that he plays anti-town or something. Like ???? Also curious why Ticktock goes from this: To soft defending him from NU in this post: | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
I'm not sure wherever Skynx/ ExO/ NU are being shitters because they're bad or because they're mafia as it stands. As it stands, I'm probably going to end up voting within those three at the moment. I'm more inclined to hit a low-poster on D1 so I can be convinced to switch from NU for that reasoning alone. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
What scum motivation do you two see behind it though? Is it odd? Sure, but I always figure that scum would just say "yo fam, ExO might be TPR" in their scum chat or something. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 09:29 NeverUnlucky wrote: I'm being a shitter because bad players are scum-reading me for bad reasons, and I am not having fun. Good. Moving onto relevant matters, I didn't completely hate the last half of your wall-post. Saying it's for town cred is indicative of a manipulative mindset where he can change his mind at any time. AKA it's insincere. That's how I interpreted that post. Last quote is also not terrible. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
With regards to mahrgell, I'm starting to get a lean-town read on him. This is mainly because his responses have themes of "I'm approaching XYZ from both perspectives" and "I'm trying to encourage a positive town atmosphere". Is this something that scum can do? Sure. He could be thread-policing, but I don't see how this actually furthers a scum agenda in his case. Scum want chaos, not an orderly atmosphere. The only thing that he's done that can be read in that light is his cases (due to their quality) but if he's been making cases to sow doubt then he's been doing a piss-poor job of making that happen. Going back to the stances he has taken, I feel like he has been very persistent with this line of reasoning so far (even if his reasoning is strange/ unfocused) and even though I find him hard to understand at times, there's some consistency in the logic that he uses. All that said, I'll reread his filter with these points in mind to see if he contradicts my view of him anywhere/ check the intent behind his cases. On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left. I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit. I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. If you must know, I am of the female persuasion but don't sweat it if you call me a 'he'. Question. When exactly did you 'stop thinking [I] was scum'? How were my responses townie? I'd like to know. Your lack of elaboration here + thread consensus that I am town = suspicions that you are following thread sentiment with your shift in how you read me. Your argument was full of holes which have already been pointed out, however. Few scum would hop onto my wagon using your reasoning. (As a matter of fact, nobody did. Foreman claimed that I was 'tryhard' while NU had that atrocious meta-vote) | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On November 03 2016 04:09 mahrgell wrote: Yes, this is pretty much my 3). I fully agree with you here. Also he started voting Exo. Now of course he will most likely tell us, that he pregame announced he was PL'ing gifs. But that is just the same category as the usual "totally busy, won't post" pregame crap... Nice excuse if you roll mafia, and who cares if you don't do it and roll town. From a townie I would expect a calmer attitude instead of throwing votes on someone who posted one textpost and one gif. He could have easily stayed on Exo and push that lynch, if there is some movement. Or he could stay there, if he doesn't want to vote a scumbuddy... Or he could just switch as easy.... Overall... Not liking it. But let's wait for NU to explain himself. Slight inconsistency with his reasoning here. He says in his earlier post (bolded part of my first quote) that "NU could have heated up the fire without it looking much worse than his usual play". This shows that he is aware that NU's town play is to be antagonistic and start fires. Here he says that "I would expect a calmer attitude from a townie" when referring to NU. This is a more general blanket statement about town play in general and it's strange to use it here when he's demonstrated an awareness of what town!NU plays like. I'm not entirely sure how these two sentences work together as a result. (both sentences were made in a similar context) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for his cases, I won't ramble too much here. I am aware that mahrgell has already addressed some of my concerns with them so I don't want him to repeat himself. - He uses 'anti-town' behaviour a lot when presenting his reasoning. It's Day 1 so this is understandable but I am noting it regardless in case it continues to be a theme. - Lack of conclusions continues to prevail. - He makes some semi-decent points...but then he concludes that it's anti-town instead of scummy behaviour. The third point is the most worrying aspect of the cases in my opinion. The way he frames his points makes it sound like he would policy-lynch Foreman/ NU but he claims to scum-read them and I just don't see that in how he refers to them. Some more in-depth thoughts on the cases below: Foreman: + Show Spoiler [Quote] + On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote: How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself. But let's summarize and update: Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none). 1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling. 2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. 4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote. 5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here. I guess you earned it ##Vote Foreman Anything in green would be the parts I liked. I dislike the red sections because they are examples of the "pointing out weird behaviour but providing town explanations for them...in the same post that you vote for that player" pattern. (although I can see some town motivation for this, I'm going to wait until mahrgell posts more before I reveal what that is) NeverUnlucky: + Show Spoiler [Quote] + On November 03 2016 07:26 mahrgell wrote: Well... from my perspective so far my topscum are: Foreman (as explained, and I will stay on him and hope to get this wagon rolling) NU Why NU? I can already see people digging out the post where I waffled away from him. Goodwill is probably not a good town trait. But let me explain my thought: I initially agreed with Calix that he implied an opinion on Calix she didn't post before. This has been discussed enough. Nontheless I accepted his explanation about it, keeping the minor point against him noted. Him trying to create a positive atmosphere is something I value highly. Now Calix seemed to go completely overboard in tunnel mode, and I honestly cried on the inside about her points. But it were NU's answers who were supposed to destroy Calix points, which brought me back onto him. First he mentioned how he loves to powerwolf, winning 1v7 etc... Well... So basically his explanation for his initial misstep was devalued by that. Assuming he tries to balance his towngame against his mafiagame, not yet conclusive. But the doubt was increasing. Next was his vote on Calix. Seriously, he had absolutely no case here. Now you may tell me again, NU loves frustration voting. Okay. But I consider it a bad trait. NU, stop it or you will probably never get towncred with me. This isn't really advancing the game. If you consider Calix to spout nonsense, either make a proper case or ignore her and talk about what you have noticed with others. And last was this post: Really? A townie speculating about another player being blue or red? I mean, is this EVER smart? Mafia knows what color the guy is, and if he isn't red, you probably helped them in case they didn't notice. So by now, I can see myself supporting a NU wagon too. As said earlier, I still want Foreman gone first... But if this wagon does not play out and deadline was close, I would jump on a NU wagon too. There's no green here. I have decided that I do not like this post. Opening is highly relevant in this post because it's pretty bad. As said earlier, he sounds like he's policy-lynching NU/ Foreman yet he claims that they are his top scum-reads. Secondly, his use of refutation via the "I can already see people digging out the post where I waffled away from him line" shows a remarkable level of self-awareness about what he's posted. (and more alarmingly, a level of self-consciousness in how consistent he appears to everyone else) Second paragraph has already been flagged up but I'm doing it again as it ties back to a theme of "pointing out suspicious behaviour but providing an explanation where the player is acting in an anti-town manner". | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
TT has already made it clear that he considers mahrgell 'a top town' and Foreman mafia while NU scum-reads mahrgell. Not so sure on his Foreman read although I'm inferring it's a town-read so he's welcome to elaborate there if I'm wrong. Anyway, this: ##vote mahrgell | ||
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